[SicutDominus]

Quick background:

I've been reading manosphere type wisdom for the a bit more than a year now, gradually coming across everything from Seddit, The Game and Boy Toy Story to Chateau Heartiste (Roissy as he apparently used to identify himself), Krauser, Rollo Tomassi, Chase Amante (google him, seriously) and of course Roosh, ROK and this forum (although the last has only been a very recent addition to my reading, as you can tell from my post count).

Personally, I've made huge improvements in my style, life satisfaction and relationships as a result of the advice and ideologies preached through these online mediums. That said, I'm not some suit-wearing millionaire player that spends all day making location-independant income and choosing which of my rotation of models will cook me dinner and dance exotically in front of my private beachhouse. It's a work in progress, heh.

With the noticeable improvement in my life since following non-mainstream, "manosphere/PUA/whatever" advice I know that it's not all some scammy marketing scheme, and if you're on this forum reading then you probably do too. However, I can't shake the feeling that a lot of the advice and discussion here is "the blind leading the blind" or "keyboard jockey" sort of stuff.

For instance, I recently discovered that a while ago there was some sort of clique spat between G Manifesto and various other forum members. If you weren't around for that (like me), you can catch up by glancing at these threads:
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-17592.html
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-17614.html

It all involves a lot of bickering about who are "senior" members of the community, who is "legit" and who is/isn't a mod/has "reputation". All over a mostly anonymous online forum.

Hardly seems like the behaviour of some of the (self proclaimed? aspiring?) coolest, most intellectual men on the planet. Let alone the obvious reality that guys spending thousands of hours posting on online forums are at best synthetically "alpha" and still enjoy their dalliance with the companions who built themselves up from betatude togethor and at worst have nurtured their online persona at the expense of their actual one.

As a mostly solitary endeavour (it's risky/pointless to open my friends up to red-pill wisdom more than a spoonful at a time), I have quite an isolated view of the clientele of this esteemed message board. I'm interested to find out about other member's perception of the legitimacy of the (fellow) forum posters here. If you met them in real life (I know there are meetups, I hope someday I'll go to a couple, need more money for travel first) would they actually be fashionable, intriguing, intellectual, attractive men of world-class caliber? Do they fall along a spectrum, and in what ratios? Are true basement-dwelling or corporate schlub posters more prominent than the odd troll who gets banned?

Regardless of the Roosh V forum's "authenticity", exposure to so much unconventional information is helping me make inroads that I can already see will make ramifications throughout the rest of my life (I would be surprised if I wasn't among the youngest here on this forum). Thank you everyone for your advice and differing opinions, the world needs more platforms for honest, relatively uncensored discussion like this one.

Edit: Full props to Roosh, who is obviously the real deal because he has performed impressive feats but still keeps it very real in his posts about the cost it took and the toll it continuously takes. Other most legit people in the manosphere scene from my perspective are Krauser (who used to have a lot more vids/pics etc. of stuff that proved he is no keyboard jockey) and Chase Amanate (less known I believe, only brief mentions of his personal life in his posts but I've never known one of his thousands of posts or comments to ever be less than absolutely spot on about women).

[Fujiwara]

Your last paragraph says it all.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

"However, I can't shake the feeling that a lot of the advice and discussion here is "the blind leading the blind" or "keyboard jockey" sort of stuff."

Most of your post seems to make good points, but when you get into this area, I think you're missing a larger point.

Women have been talking amongst themselves for eons now and no one has had a problem with it. That was not part of men's culture in the US, but the Internet changed that (you might be too young to remember the pre-Internet age). Now men can confer with each other and learn about things they used to have to learn by the school of hard knocks.

Had this forum been around when I was 22, things would have gone way different for me. Sure, there are conflicting ideas. But at least there are real ideas amongst them. All I had was Oprah, Sally Jesse, etc.

ANY discussion runs the risk of the blind leading the blind. For that matter, so does any book, political speech or talk you have with a shrink or guidance counselor. That's not the point of this forum. The point is to share experiences and learn from the exchange of ideas, not necessarily the ideas per se.

For example, newbies will see a bunch of ideas here about what constitutes White Knighting. But here's the big-picture takeaway:

1). They learn there is such a thing, which ain't getting in the lamestream media or from parents.

2). They learn it encompasses a lot of stuff, not all of which we agree on.

3). They learn what it means to them and where to draw their own limits with helping women out or "saving" them.

Are true basement-dwelling or corporate schlub posters more prominent than the odd troll who gets banned?

Can we please leave the basement-dwelling cliche to Jezebel? And anyway, I don't see that I couldn't learn something from someone like this if they even do exist. The one person I did know who lived in his mom's basement was a relative who actually got more action between ages 22-24 that almost anyone I knew. Which might in itself be a lesson of sorts.

And I've never noticed bickering amongst senior members of the community. Are they the ones running "nursing home game?" Hahahaha.

[Aliblahba]

Very legit. Here's a good start:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-11992.html?

Many of us have crossed paths in the real world. I've made some good friends, and these meetups have excelled my career, travel, and outlook on life. And of course chasing poosy.

As far as the bickering from "senior" members....well. It goes like this.

Anytime you get a group of hard headed, forward thinking, poosy chasing, red pill men in a group, of course there will be arguing. It's a process of thinking. No different than a groups of experienced guys standing around arguing about:

Way to build the fastest small block 350

Best way to accuratize a stock Remington 700 VS .308

Swimsuit model with the biggest titties

Fastest way to recover a stuck vehicle

Whether jerking off makes you go blind

Who's gotten the most pussy (me btw)

Most of us have the same goal, but the problem is, there's a 1000 paths to that goal, and not one is a fit for everyone, or the best overall. But the continued debating brings new ideas to the table.

[SicutDominus]

(05-18-2013 09:14 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

"However, I can't shake the feeling that a lot of the advice and discussion here is "the blind leading the blind" or "keyboard jockey" sort of stuff."

Most of your post seems to make good points, but when you get into this area, I think you're missing a larger point.

Are true basement-dwelling or corporate schlub posters more prominent than the odd troll who gets banned?

Can we please leave the basement-dwelling cliche to Jezebel? And anyway, I don't see that I couldn't learn something from someone like this if they even do exist. The one person I did know who lived in his mom's basement was a relative who actually got more action between ages 22-24 that almost anyone I knew. Which might in itself be a lesson of sorts.

And I've never noticed bickering amongst senior members of the community. Are they the ones running "nursing home game?" Hahahaha.

My use of caricatures like "the blind leading the blind" and "corporate basement dweller" were not used to be realistic, but as a contrast to the kind of (debatably realistic) average forum poster that sleeps with 3 new girls a week, is 6'4'', totally ripped, always looks incredibly stylish, travels the world completely on their own terms etc.

Of course it's good to work towards that, and no doubt at least a couple of people probably have made it there, but it stands to reason that an overwhelming majority of such guys got there without a forum at all. I am highlighting extremes to get feedback on the majority of the population that occupies the more central part of the spectrum, not because I think the outer reaches are pervasive or realistic.

Also, forgot to mention Mark Manson and T from TheRawness as other really good online writers to check out.

ED: for clarity.

[rudebwoy]

The main thing is that WE all share a common ground, we like women and we don't like the status quo.

I don't no anyone outside of this forum that would have the balls to travel overseas, let alone by themselves.

I know very few dudes that would tell their women where to go if she crossed the line.

Most guys I know are breaking their necks and wallets to buy a fancy car or a fancy place, they believe this will get them pussy.

My point is most dudes on this forum are men or on the way to becoming men, the Seniors are guy's that don't give a shit and yes there is alot of postering. This comes with the territory!

[j r]

Easy answer: this forum is as legit as you make it.

[scotian]

(05-18-2013 09:34 AM)SicutDominus Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 09:14 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

"However, I can't shake the feeling that a lot of the advice and discussion here is "the blind leading the blind" or "keyboard jockey" sort of stuff."

Most of your post seems to make good points, but when you get into this area, I think you're missing a larger point.

Are true basement-dwelling or corporate schlub posters more prominent than the odd troll who gets banned?

Can we please leave the basement-dwelling cliche to Jezebel? And anyway, I don't see that I couldn't learn something from someone like this if they even do exist. The one person I did know who lived in his mom's basement was a relative who actually got more action between ages 22-24 that almost anyone I knew. Which might in itself be a lesson of sorts.

And I've never noticed bickering amongst senior members of the community. Are they the ones running "nursing home game?" Hahahaha.

My use of caricatures like "the blind leading the blind" and "corporate basement dweller" were not used to be realistic, but as a contrast to the kind of (debatably realistic) average forum poster that sleeps with 3 new girls a week, is 6'4'', totally ripped, always looks incredibly stylish, travels the world completely on their own terms etc.

I slept with three new girls in the past week, I'm 5'4, I could lose ten pounds, I have the fashion sense of a baked potato, I've been traveling the world (and banging girls) on my own terms since I was 16, I'm nothing special, is it really that hard to believe?

[WestCoast]

Your best bet is to go by 1) people who have been proofed in real life, 2) number of likes on a single post so you catch good posts by low ranked people 3) rep points, 4) simply reading their advice and implementing it 5) if someone consistently bitches/complains they are likely failures, it's hard to tell between someone talking direct and complaining so try to read between the lines.

So the G is a real person, just use his advice, he is just for some reason obsessed with privacy.

For specific members, see which lifestyle game you want and take advice from those members pretty simple.

[Samseau]

You can learn a lot about any individual poster just by reading through their rep sheet. Usually it isn't bullshit. For example, Scotian has a high rep count because he's helped a lot of guys make $$$$. High rep usually means they've contributed value somewhere on the forum.

[Aliblahba]

I gave a rep point to a tea party member on here and got an IRS audit.

[pitt]

Its definitely a legit crew. Actually i am impressed with every member i have met. All cool guys in their own way.

Then again even if you don't think we are legit, you could just use the information on here for your own benefit. There is a lot of quality information on here.

[solo]

It's good to be cautious about information posted online but hands down this is the best place on the internet. Actually, the only problem with it is that it's too good so you can easily end up spending too much time here if you're not careful.

[WestIndianArchie]

[Dexter Morgan]

(05-18-2013 09:14 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

Women have been talking amongst themselves for eons now and no one has had a problem with it. That was not part of men's culture in the US, but the Internet changed that (you might be too young to remember the pre-Internet age). Now men can confer with each other and learn about things they used to have to learn by the school of hard knocks.

Spot on. Women, in many areas (such as how they have re-molded family law to their advantage) act as a group with common interests. Men - by their nature - need to reject other men and "do it my way". While that independent streak can pay dividends, its also self-defeating in some ways. Men should swallow their pride and learn to work as a unit when it benefits them; its only the insecure types who need to malign every other man to make themselves feel bigger.

How does this relate to the OP's observation? Simple: Regard all advice on this forum as "keep or toss". Keep what you find useful, disregard what you don't. This is an individual decision. But by all means, don't knock the idea that men are coming together to share knowledge just because SOME of what is shared conflicts with your world view.

Even lions team up in the hunt, taking turns chasing to tire out their prey.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(05-18-2013 12:09 PM)Dexter Morgan Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 09:14 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

Women have been talking amongst themselves for eons now and no one has had a problem with it. That was not part of men's culture in the US, but the Internet changed that (you might be too young to remember the pre-Internet age). Now men can confer with each other and learn about things they used to have to learn by the school of hard knocks.

Spot on. Women, in many areas (such as how they have re-molded family law to their advantage) act as a group with common interests. Men - by their nature - need to reject other men and "do it my way". While that independent streak can pay dividends, its also self-defeating in some ways. Men should swallow their pride and learn to work as a unit when it benefits them; its only the insecure types who need to malign every other man to make themselves feel bigger.

How does this relate to the OP's observation? Simple: Regard all advice on this forum as "keep or toss". Keep what you find useful, disregard what you don't. This is an individual decision. But by all means, don't knock the idea that men are coming together to share knowledge just because SOME of what is shared conflicts with your world view.

Even lions team up in the hunt, taking turns chasing to tire out their prey.

"Men should swallow their pride and learn to work as a unit when it benefits them; its only the insecure types who need to malign every other man to make themselves feel bigger."

You just sort of hit on something revelatory. You might have just tapped the motherlode, my friend!

From what I gather, men worked more in groups until the advent of "the corporation" in the 1940s and '50s, when we all started to get isolated in suburbia. It seems to be this is when Beta males started becoming the norms -- the castrated, de-sexed husbands who earned their keep but for some reason allowed Betty Friedan and her ilk to convince them they were "oppressors."

Is the Internet bringing men together in a virtual way that replicates the more tribal groups men had before the corporate era separated them all into "little boxes" (to quote an old folk tune)? It seems to me that when men are isolated with only women and kids it's very easy for them to become Beta. With other men around that doesn't happen as much. You naturally fall into being part of a team.

Maybe this is why the SPLC and feminists are in such a rush to classify the manosphere as "hate speech" -- because it's allowing men to interact in a way they haven't since the pre-"Mad Men" days.

(Note: when I say "men," I'm speaking generally about middle class guys raised in the suburbs. I think more ethnic urban guys are closer knit than people from the 'burbs. I make this observation having been raised in an ethnic enclave in NYC, but moved out to suburbia as a teen.)

[Roosh]

I like how his edit is a realization that his trolling went overboard a tad and a softener was needed.

[thebassist]

Quote:

average forum poster that sleeps with 3 new girls a week, is 6'4'', totally ripped, always looks incredibly stylish, travels the world completely on their own terms etc.

The forum is what you make of it, or what you choose to see.

To be honest, I think that this is one of the most grounded, down to Earth communities of people on the internet- I don't see people bragging about how great they look, how ripped they are, or how much they earn. Or if they do, they get shit for it. What I see instead are a minority of people who are in a certain position of privilege and experience who are willing and able to share advice and tips on reaching that level for the majority of people looking to improve themselves.

With that in mind, I really think you're pulling that statement out of your ass.

[ryanf]

(05-18-2013 10:32 AM)scotian Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 09:34 AM)SicutDominus Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 09:14 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

"However, I can't shake the feeling that a lot of the advice and discussion here is "the blind leading the blind" or "keyboard jockey" sort of stuff."

Most of your post seems to make good points, but when you get into this area, I think you're missing a larger point.

Are true basement-dwelling or corporate schlub posters more prominent than the odd troll who gets banned?

Can we please leave the basement-dwelling cliche to Jezebel? And anyway, I don't see that I couldn't learn something from someone like this if they even do exist. The one person I did know who lived in his mom's basement was a relative who actually got more action between ages 22-24 that almost anyone I knew. Which might in itself be a lesson of sorts.

And I've never noticed bickering amongst senior members of the community. Are they the ones running "nursing home game?" Hahahaha.

My use of caricatures like "the blind leading the blind" and "corporate basement dweller" were not used to be realistic, but as a contrast to the kind of (debatably realistic) average forum poster that sleeps with 3 new girls a week, is 6'4'', totally ripped, always looks incredibly stylish, travels the world completely on their own terms etc.

I slept with three new girls in the past week, I'm 5'4, I could lose ten pounds, I have the fashion sense of a baked potato, I've been traveling the world (and banging girls) on my own terms since I was 16, I'm nothing special, is it really that hard to believe?

I've hit a rough patch up until recently. This post gives me hope.

[ryanf]

(05-18-2013 12:30 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I like how his edit is a realization that his trolling went overboard a tad and a softener was needed.

He won't be missed.