[cardguy]

Just curious about something...

How does a woman end up in a Woman's Shelter? By which I mean - is she responsible herself for ending up in this situation?

A woman doesn't become a battered and defeated woman overnight. So - it seems to me that any women in such shelters are there because they chose to stay with their partners - and did not leave years earlier, when the partner's behaviour was getting out of hand.

I am just trying to think about this in a rational manner.

Am I missing anything?

[scotian]

(05-18-2013 08:17 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

Just curious about something...

How does a woman end up in a Woman's Shelter? By which I mean - is she responsible herself for ending up in this situation?

A woman doesn't become a battered and defeated woman overnight. So - it seems to me that any women in such shelters are there because they chose to stay with their partners - and did not leave years earlier, when the partner's behaviour was getting out of hand.

I am just trying to think about this in a rational manner.

Am I missing anything?

Women aren't rational creatures, you should know this by now. You can read up on battered woman sydrome and Stockholm syndrome for more info.

[cardguy]

I just think we should encourage women to take more responsibility. If a guy hits you - then leave him.

I tried making these points at work - but the people around me looked at me like I was crazy. It is impossible to apply any common sense. It is strange since we don't have Arranged Marriages anymore. So - women are free to leave at any time.

[ryanf]

Women's shelter game?

[Parlay44]

Shelters are a breeding ground for psycho bitches. Once a woman lands in one her head of filled with non-stop bullshit from other "abused" women and counselors. She's gently walked through the legal process to make sure she gets custody and child support from whatever evil man put her in the shelter in the first place. She's also given welfare money and free section 8 housing if she wants it(and of course she does).

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I completely agree with you. A western woman who tolerates violence is the epitome of shamefulness and makes no sense. She has all the protections, support and funding that women in really fucked up places like Afghanistan lack, yet she still clings to her man who "got a bit carried away". It's like a spoiled child.

p.s. and yes, following that logic, most women who end up in shelters deserve scorn for not leaving their abusive partners as soon as violence started. I would be surprised if the snapshot of an average shelter's population included more than a few women who had never seen it coming and came there right after the first incident.

[JimNortonFan]

A guy who would hit repeatedly hit a woman would rip people off, steal old ladies' lunch money, feed kids mercury to make a buck, stab his best friend in the back to move up in the world, etc. Therefore, the man who would hit a woman is desirable because he's rogue and selfish and willing to use violence to get his way. The battered women want to be with the closest thing they can get to alpha, which is the abuser who has some DT. They just don't want him to hit them. The thing is, the guy could be a loser, but he can show off some DT potential by hitting her. He loses his job, he hits her. You might think if a guy lost his job he'd be walking on eggshells in his relationship. If you think that you have not taken any Red Pill. Abuser loses his job? Beat the crap out of his woman because he's showing he has the DT to get back into the job game (in her eyes). Problem is, some women can't tell the difference between alpha and faux alpha. They want alpha so bad they pretend abuse is alpha so they can convince themselves they're getting alpha.

Alpha chasing is hazardous to women's health. Skydiving, rock climbing, etc. are hazardous too, but for some people they're so fun they don't care.

[Cincinnatus]

(05-18-2013 09:10 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Shelters are a breeding ground for psycho bitches. Once a woman lands in one her head of filled with non-stop bullshit from other "abused" women and counselors. She's gently walked through the legal process to make sure she gets custody and child support from whatever evil man put her in the shelter in the first place. She's also given welfare money and free section 8 housing if she wants it(and of course she does).

Yep.

Also, remember the welfare 'reforms' of the nineties that was supposed to include time limits for benefits? Not if you're a battered woman - you can get that shit for life.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(05-18-2013 08:17 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

Just curious about something...

How does a woman end up in a Woman's Shelter? By which I mean - is she responsible herself for ending up in this situation?

A woman doesn't become a battered and defeated woman overnight. So - it seems to me that any women in such shelters are there because they chose to stay with their partners - and did not leave years earlier, when the partner's behaviour was getting out of hand.

I am just trying to think about this in a rational manner.

Am I missing anything?

I actually know someone who ended up in a shelter so let me give you an example.

First, she was a single mother who had a kid with someone she told me was the most irresponsible, jobless person on earth. She was not a bad-looking woman at 45-46 so when she had her kid at 30 she must have been really hot. So this was a choice.

When her daughter got to be 16 the daughter met an older guy (24-25) who the mom allowed her to date. The older guy convinced both of them to move to his town. They did and this woman, who had never gotten much of an education, got a low-paying retail job in the local mall (which is where I met her -- she worked for my friend's business). The older guy turned out to be a maniac who abused then tried to kidnap the daughter. He turned up at the mall to battle the mom and caused such a scene the cops came and she got fired.

So she and her daughter ended up in a new town but the mom was now jobless. She was unable to pay the rent and now needed police protection for her daughter as well as a lawyer. Soon she had no money and was on the street and being put up by the local shelter. Meanwhile, her daughter defied her (and the cops) and ran off with the bad boy who'd tried to kidnap her. So now she needed a legal team to get her daughter back.

I know this sounds outlandish and like I'm making it up but this is the absolute truth. This really happened, exactly as I've written it, in the 1990s. I'll admit that I White Knighted a bit and gave her $20 when I saw her walking disheveled through the mall, looking for a new job.

[cardguy]

Yeah - I wanted to raise this issue since 'Political Correctness' now includes not asking tough questions of women who end up in fucked up relationships.

To adapt an old expression:

'If a guy hits you once, shame on him.

If a guy hits you twice, shame on you.'

[cardguy]

'Days Of Broken Arrows',

I posted my response before reading you interesting post.

What do you take away from that? Do you think women are entirely to blame for the situations they get into? Or is it more complicated than that? I suppose once you start having kids and struggling to pay the rent, I can see how a woman may feel she is trapped by her circumstances.

Of course - I support helping anybody who is in a bad situation. In the same way that a hospital should treat an injury - even if it was caused through personal negligence.

Interesting responses, so far...

[Blaster]

(05-18-2013 08:17 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

Just curious about something...

How does a woman end up in a Woman's Shelter? By which I mean - is she responsible herself for ending up in this situation?

Partially, it depends on the woman and how you evaluate "responsible." In my experience (and I have some), women in shelters come from the lowest classes of society and often have severe physical defects, mental/personality defects, extremely low IQ, or chronic diseases.

So yeah, some might be as responsible as a retard flunking 7th grade, but that's not really a helpful way to think about it.

Quote:

Women's shelter game?

Hah. Most I have seen would be lucky to rate a 4 by the most undiscriminating player. They're women with SMV so low the only men they can attract are basically omega dregs.

Edit: Far better to game Women's shelter volunteers who are often young and female.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(05-18-2013 09:57 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

'Days Of Broken Arrows',

I posted my response before reading you interesting post.

What do you take away from that? Do you think women are entirely to blame for the situations they get into? Or is it more complicated than that? I suppose once you start having kids and struggling to pay the rent, I can see how a woman may feel she is trapped by her circumstances.

Of course - I support helping anybody who is in a bad situation. In the same way that a hospital should treat an injury - even if it was caused through personal negligence.

Interesting responses, so far...

It was a combination of things in this case. The woman was from a lower socio-economic class so she had one strike against her. But she was also one of those women who chose the now-cliche "bad boys," and had an attitude about everything. Then when it came to her daughter, things went more wrong because she parented like she lived her life -- irresponsibly -- and probably passed on deviant genetics.

No husband, no child support, living day-to-day, etc. It's a way of life. I don't see many women from the middle or upper class going the shelter route, but my mother has said she wanted to when my dad knocked one of her teeth out...

[Blaster]

(05-18-2013 09:46 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

I actually know someone who ended up in a shelter so let me give you an example.

First, she was a single mother who had a kid with someone she told me was the most irresponsible, jobless person on earth. She was not a bad-looking woman at 45-46 so when she had her kid at 30 she must have been really hot. So this was a choice.

When her daughter got to be 16 the daughter met an older guy (24-25) who the mom allowed her to date. The older guy convinced both of them to move to his town. They did and this woman, who had never gotten much of an education, got a low-paying retail job in the local mall (which is where I met her -- she worked for my friend's business). The older guy turned out to be a maniac who abused then tried to kidnap the daughter. He turned up at the mall to battle the mom and caused such a scene the cops came and she got fired.

So she and her daughter ended up in a new town but the mom was now jobless. She was unable to pay the rent and now needed police protection for her daughter as well as a lawyer. Soon she had no money and was on the street and being put up by the local shelter. Meanwhile, her daughter defied her (and the cops) and ran off with the bad boy who'd tried to kidnap her. So now she needed a legal team to get her daughter back.

I know this sounds outlandish and like I'm making it up but this is the absolute truth. This really happened, exactly as I've written it, in the 1990s. I'll admit that I White Knighted a bit and gave her $20 when I saw her walking disheveled through the mall, looking for a new job.

This doesn't conflict with my experience except for the "good-looking at 45" part. I think that would be unusual for a shelter resident. Although "decent-looking enough in their 20s and 30s to avoid destitution" might be true. And certainly there may be "chasing bad boys" elements but one that might be worth distinguishing "omega bad boy" (ugly/stupid/drunken/violent/drug-addict) versus various alpha bad boy archetypes. She might be attracted to the violent guy but she's not choosing him over a nerdy beta she's choosing him over the downs syndrome nice-guy who can barely form a complete sentence.

[Kabal]

Male on female domestic violence would disappear practically overnight if a critical mass of women stopped rewarding men for hitting them.

But they won't, because as we all know, chicks dig jerks--it's only a matter of how much jerkishness maximizes a particular girl's attraction function.

I love Blue Pill people trying to explain this ("25 Extremely Upsetting Reactions To Chris Brown At The Grammys")--their hamsters usually blame it on "society."

[cardguy]

Based on the responses, I am getting a better understanding now.

So - it really comes down to women having few options. And often the loser alocholic criminal who hits her is more sexually appealing (due to having some pseudo alpha 'bad boy' traits) than the other guys she has access to. Since we are dealing with women, often ugly, who are poor they can't even settle for the beta 'nice guy' since even that is out of their league. So - the competition to such 'bad boys' is almost in the realm of men with no job with mental health issues.

Chicks like Rihanna I have literally zero sympathy for. Still - it is a comples issue. Since I fell many women do enjoy being dominated by their partners. With some wanting to be dominated even more than others (hello 50 Shades Of Grey) . Of course - such a topic is rarely discussed in these 'PC' times.

On the back of these thoughts I want to link to a part from a documentary series called 'The Private Life Of A Masterpiece.' It is a BBC documentary series covering the history of some of the most important paintings of all time. And it is my favourite TV series of all time. It is just wonderful.

Anyway - below takes you to the part discussing an important detail in a Botticelli painting. The discussion is quite intriguing since it gives an insight into how men and women thought about theses issues 750 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blMAoyFjUQA&t=6m05s [watch it for about 3 minutes to hear all the points of interest on this issue.]

And here is the painting being examined: La Primavera by Botticelli.



Anyway - do check out the TV series on Youtube. Just pick a painting you are interested in and fire away.

Here they are on YouTube:

PRIVATE LIFE OF A MASTERPIECE - YOUTUBE

[DarkTriad]

(05-18-2013 09:46 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(05-18-2013 08:17 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

Just curious about something...

How does a woman end up in a Woman's Shelter? By which I mean - is she responsible herself for ending up in this situation?

A woman doesn't become a battered and defeated woman overnight. So - it seems to me that any women in such shelters are there because they chose to stay with their partners - and did not leave years earlier, when the partner's behaviour was getting out of hand.

I am just trying to think about this in a rational manner.

Am I missing anything?

I actually know someone who ended up in a shelter so let me give you an example.

First, she was a single mother who had a kid with someone she told me was the most irresponsible, jobless person on earth. She was not a bad-looking woman at 45-46 so when she had her kid at 30 she must have been really hot. So this was a choice.

When her daughter got to be 16 the daughter met an older guy (24-25) who the mom allowed her to date. The older guy convinced both of them to move to his town. They did and this woman, who had never gotten much of an education, got a low-paying retail job in the local mall (which is where I met her -- she worked for my friend's business). The older guy turned out to be a maniac who abused then tried to kidnap the daughter. He turned up at the mall to battle the mom and caused such a scene the cops came and she got fired.

So she and her daughter ended up in a new town but the mom was now jobless. She was unable to pay the rent and now needed police protection for her daughter as well as a lawyer. Soon she had no money and was on the street and being put up by the local shelter. Meanwhile, her daughter defied her (and the cops) and ran off with the bad boy who'd tried to kidnap her. So now she needed a legal team to get her daughter back.

I know this sounds outlandish and like I'm making it up but this is the absolute truth. This really happened, exactly as I've written it, in the 1990s. I'll admit that I White Knighted a bit and gave her $20 when I saw her walking disheveled through the mall, looking for a new job.

We're not saying you're making this up, but it's likely SHE made quite a bit of this up. And why did she need money for a lawyer? Prosecutors are paid by taxes. If he says she needed money for a lawyer, she was either conning people for money, or attempting to sue him for cash (likely meaning she was conning him).

[Burdflu]

(05-18-2013 09:10 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Shelters are a breeding ground for psycho bitches. Once a woman lands in one her head of filled with non-stop bullshit from other "abused" women and counselors. She's gently walked through the legal process to make sure she gets custody and child support from whatever evil man put her in the shelter in the first place. She's also given welfare money and free section 8 housing if she wants it(and of course she does).

This

The only women I ever hear about that use these are from the 7th floor at the hospital I work at (adult mental health inpatients). They are usually crack or methed out in addition to their compounding mental illness. Not a pretty sight. These women are usually too fucked up to be able to go through the motions of collecting a welfare cheque...so they're smart enough to fuck up and land in mental health where the social workers will do it for them.

Also, I've discussed with my team about discharging some of the older teens that land on my unit to shelters because they fucked up their home lives so much that their parents aren't willing to take them back in upon discharge. So to the shelter they go. CAS (CPS I think is the US equivalent) won't help them either because that net is no longer available once a girl hits 17.

[gamepadawan]

(05-18-2013 08:17 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

Just curious about something...

How does a woman end up in a Woman's Shelter? By which I mean - is she responsible herself for ending up in this situation?

A woman doesn't become a battered and defeated woman overnight. So - it seems to me that any women in such shelters are there because they chose to stay with their partners - and did not leave years earlier, when the partner's behaviour was getting out of hand.

I am just trying to think about this in a rational manner.

Am I missing anything?

in college i went to a battered womans volunteer thing and brought this up, it was nothing but girls and their response was well these women are in love which makes it hard to walk away, really shitty imo when these bimbos have kids, the woman from the shelter, who worked there said they can't do anything to drive women away, it's a safe haven for them

[JimNortonFan]

Anyone here listen to Loveline with Adam Carolla and Dr. Drew?

What about all the girls calling in to ask Dr. Drew what to do about mommy's new man touching them?

"I told my mom and she called me a liar. She says if I say it again she'll hit me."

That's right, these women were told their men were touching their daughters and they chose the men over their own flesh and blood.

Which is more alpha? Hitting your woman or molesting her daughter?

Blame the whole thing on the patriarchy.

[cardguy]

On a similar note - I always felt that if you have children, and then divorce your spouse. You have a duty to your kids not to get another partner (at least until they are 18 I guess). I think all kids would rather live with a single parent - than share a house with a parent and a new partner.

Not only that - I think people know this, but don't want to admit to themselves that they are putting their own needs ahead of that of the child.

I work with too many step-parents to raise this point at work. So would be curious to see how others feel? I am only basing this on my own feelings.

Again - am I missing something?