[Kaiserfranz]

Hi
Since a few months I have noticed a decrease in horniness and almost no morning woods.
I have been trough an high stress period but now things are better, so I have done a blood test and checked the T Levels.

the results are : testosterone 690,66 ng/dl
free testosterone 11,4 picog/ml

I am 35 yo and, if I remember correctly the table from Danger & Play, I am close to the the high range of the spectrum, athough free T seems low.

However, this doesn't explain my lack of horniness.

Any suggestion?

Thanks

[heavy]

Bump bc I never got a response, still wondering what you guys think.

Also asking again because I've been hitting the weights hard this year, doing the Arnold plan, and getting ripped, and just starting to learn about trt cycling and stuff...which made me think of my test 9 months ago.

(09-19-2014 10:12 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Bump...I did a morning testosterone test last week and sent it in. Got it back yesterday...75 pg/mL

The chart said it's low but normal, but if I'm understanding correctly, that's incredibly low. 75 pg/mL = 75 ng/dL.

WTF any input fellas?

Edit: If you look at me, you'd never think low T. I'm about as cut as they come naturally, and with lifting, I have muscle definition and the coveted V-look. (I'm speaking from a point of humility here, obviously I tested my T for a reason, and I'm admitting it's low, so my point is not to brag.)

Edit2: I've found in my life T levels are just like "alpha"...very situational (except for a small % of population). When I feel like I'm in-fucking-charge, I can feel the T pumping. I suspect my T levels are a sign of my life right now, which is at a job I don't like, sitting all day, which comprises 40 hrs of my life per week.

This is a snapshot of the test...
   

[CleanSlate]

(06-04-2015 07:59 AM)heavy Wrote:  

trt cycling

TRT and cycling are two different things.

The goal of TRT is to achieve healthy and stable levels of testosterone while keeping other crucial hormones (like estradiol and cortisol) in check - not too low, not to high.

Cycling is when you blast high doses of testosterone in order to make gains at the gym for a period of time, then restart your HPTA by running clomid and HCG for a period of time, and repeat.

You want to think long term, and as you can imagine, cycling can do a lot of damage in the long term. I'd recommend looking into TRT.

I've been through a lot when it comes to finding a proper TRT protocol, so PM me if you need more info.

[PhDre]

(02-08-2015 06:10 AM)Kaiserfranz Wrote:  

Hi
Since a few months I have noticed a decrease in horniness and almost no morning woods.
I have been trough an high stress period but now things are better, so I have done a blood test and checked the T Levels.

the results are : testosterone 690,66 ng/dl
free testosterone 11,4 picog/ml

I am 35 yo and, if I remember correctly the table from Danger & Play, I am close to the the high range of the spectrum, athough free T seems low.

However, this doesn't explain my lack of horniness.

Any suggestion?

Thanks

Your total test is fine. Free test is quite low.

Test for estradiol (kills your boner when too high and elevates SHBG) and DHEAs.

[CodyB]

So I went to a GP yesterday and asked to have my testosterone checked.

He looked at me quizically and said plainly; 'You don't have low testosterone'.

Geez mate might be the case but wouldn't you like something like a proper test done before you reach that conclusion? My area is plagued with young mothers and the institutionalized and I guess he treats that day in and day out but still.

At 27, what should be I looking out for in my results?

[PhDre]

(06-04-2015 07:59 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Bump bc I never got a response, still wondering what you guys think.

Also asking again because I've been hitting the weights hard this year, doing the Arnold plan, and getting ripped, and just starting to learn about trt cycling and stuff...which made me think of my test 9 months ago.

(09-19-2014 10:12 AM)heavy Wrote:  

Bump...I did a morning testosterone test last week and sent it in. Got it back yesterday...75 pg/mL

The chart said it's low but normal, but if I'm understanding correctly, that's incredibly low. 75 pg/mL = 75 ng/dL.

WTF any input fellas?

Edit: If you look at me, you'd never think low T. I'm about as cut as they come naturally, and with lifting, I have muscle definition and the coveted V-look. (I'm speaking from a point of humility here, obviously I tested my T for a reason, and I'm admitting it's low, so my point is not to brag.)

Edit2: I've found in my life T levels are just like "alpha"...very situational (except for a small % of population). When I feel like I'm in-fucking-charge, I can feel the T pumping. I suspect my T levels are a sign of my life right now, which is at a job I don't like, sitting all day, which comprises 40 hrs of my life per week.

75 pg/mL = 7.5 ng/dL. That's a free testosterone reading and yes that is low.

It's hard to give you advice with just one parameter, testosterone doesn't exist on its own in your body. If you want useful feedback, you need at least:
-LH and FSH (LH stimulates test production and FSH sperm production but FSH provides more stable readings)
-test and free test or test and SHBG
-estradiol

It is even better if you also include:
-cholesterol
-pregnenolone
-DHEAs

[TheBowery]

The cure for low testosterone: http://pagesix.com/2015/06/03/who-is-ame...cky-charm/

I think this boosts American Pharoah's chances at the Triple Crown on Saturday.

[PhDre]

(06-04-2015 08:41 AM)CodyB Wrote:  

So I went to a GP yesterday and asked to have my testosterone checked.

He looked at me quizically and said plainly; 'You don't have low testosterone'.

Geez mate might be the case but wouldn't you like something like a proper test done before you reach that conclusion?

Complain about typical low test symptoms: no sex drive, poor erections, loss of strength, poor sleep...
Even then, there's a high chance the blood panel he prescribes will be too limited to diagnose the root of your problem.

(06-04-2015 08:41 AM)CodyB Wrote:  

At 27, what should be I looking out for in my results?

You should feel good: decent sex drive, good erections, morning wood, solid sleep and good recovery from physical exercise.

It's hard to put numbers on feeling good since everyone's different but these are the recommendations from LEF: http://www.lifeextension.com/Protocols/M...n/Page-les

Most anti-aging doctors will aim for comparable numbers.

[Engineer]

Alright, I'm taking the plunge. Tired of feeling tired and getting old (46) so recovery from training is starting to be a pain in the ass. Morning wood and sex drive have been fine but poor sleep and low energy have been the main issues. My workouts are OK, doing long triathlons just fine an dropping a bit of weight via diet improvements.

My initial numbers were about the bottom 10% of my age, can't remember exactly, but I'll post later what they were pre-TRT and after.

Question to all of you out there, I'm going with Defy Medical Clinic in Florida. Anyone else here using these guys? Feedback/experience with Dr. Saya? They said if someone who already uses Defy referred me to them, I can get them a $25 credit on their account. Send me a PM and I'll get you that credit.

Here's my last email with them. I just phoned them and dropped $330 for the labs and initial one hour phone consult:

"I wanted to follow up to see if you are still interested in the services offered at our clinic. We are a full service telemedicine clinic, which means you can consult with Dr Saya and his medical staff by phone or email. The blood work required can be ordered for you to go into a Labcorp facility near your home. If you have insurance coverage we can provide a prescription for the blood work for you to take to your local lab. If your insurance does not cover your blood work we offer very low cost test prices.



We do not accept insurance at the clinic, however we do provide free claim service which means we provide the forms needed to submit your bill for reimbursement. The costs are as follows;



Initial 1 hour phone consultation with Dr Saya: $175 (only $90 for follow ups thereafter)



Dr Saya requires two follow up appointment per year for men on Testosterone therapy (every 6 months). You can choose to have your follow up with Dr Saya or with his RN, Jill. The follow up costs are as follows:



Follow up lab review w/ Dr Saya- $75

Follow up lab review w/ Nurse- $45



To begin testosterone therapy we will need the following blood work;



Comprehensive Metabolic Panel- $10

CBC- $10

Lipid Panel- $10

Testosterone Free and Total- $29

Estradiol- $25

DHEA-S- $26

TSH-$15

PSA-$15

LH-$10





I listed the prices in case your insurance does not cover some or all of these tests. The listed price is what you would pay us so if you do have coverage there will be no charge for blood work. This would be in addition to the consultation.



Once the results become available, which takes 3-5 business days, we schedule you for your phone appointment with Dr Saya. "

[heavy]

^^ Great post. Now he's a doctor and there's a clinic that knows how to take care of dudes looking to improve their health.

I compare that to a local anti-aging clinic, the website and the emails I've exchanged...Defy Medical Clinic is way better in their breakdown of costs.

Thanks for the post and I look forward to any reviews you guys can offer.

[scubadude]

Those Defy prices seem reasonable.

Is there an additional annual fee or just pay for the 2 required consults?

Will they send you the prescription or only ship the test from their pharmacy? If so what is the cost per 10ml of test? What is the shipping and handling fee?

What weekly dose will they prescribe you to start?

[scubadude]

I am with a different S. Florida clinic.

Compounded test cyp is $115 per 10 ml bottle.

HCG is about $60 per bottle

Shipping and "consulting " fee is about $50 per order.

When I started a couple years ago they said there was some kind of annual fee but I've never been charged it.

Not sure off hand what the lab costs are

Annual costs to me are $1400 but that's with 300 mg a week prescribed.

[Engineer]

(06-04-2015 02:01 PM)scubadude Wrote:  

I am with a different S. Florida clinic.

Compounded test cyp is $115 per 10 ml bottle.

HCG is about $60 per bottle

Shipping and "consulting " fee is about $50 per order.

When I started a couple years ago they said there was some kind of annual fee but I've never been charged it.

Not sure off hand what the lab costs are

Annual costs to me are $1400 but that's with 300 mg a week prescribed.

I'll keep you posted as soon as they set my dose. Your cost is about 3x what MikeCF is paying, but I forget the amount he's taking.

[scubadude]

(06-04-2015 03:18 PM)Engineer Wrote:  

(06-04-2015 02:01 PM)scubadude Wrote:  

I am with a different S. Florida clinic.

Compounded test cyp is $115 per 10 ml bottle.

HCG is about $60 per bottle

Shipping and "consulting " fee is about $50 per order.

When I started a couple years ago they said there was some kind of annual fee but I've never been charged it.

Not sure off hand what the lab costs are

Annual costs to me are $1400 but that's with 300 mg a week prescribed.

I'll keep you posted as soon as they set my dose. Your cost is about 3x what MikeCF is paying, but I forget the amount he's taking.

I know I could probably get it a little cheaper. Look on goodrx.com for prices on test, it ranges $90 to $130 for 10ml from all the big name stores. So the $115 I pay is about middle of the road.

I said I was prescribed 300mg per week, not that I take it. I take 200 mg a week (a high dose for TRT) and set back the rest. If laws change, clinics close etc I do not want to be scrambling to find a new Dr within a week or two. If I only bought enough for 200mg /week my annual costs would be under $900.

The other $200 or so I pay annually for consultation and shipping is less than I would pay for a couple office visits with a local Dr.

Maybe I pay a little more but the convenience and everything is worth it for me personally.

[Engineer]

(06-04-2015 01:57 PM)scubadude Wrote:  

Those Defy prices seem reasonable.

Is there an additional annual fee or just pay for the 2 required consults?

Will they send you the prescription or only ship the test from their pharmacy? If so what is the cost per 10ml of test? What is the shipping and handling fee?

What weekly dose will they prescribe you to start?

UPDATE
So my numbers used to be 225 total, 7.1 free. Now just finished my first month, injecting 2x/week 0.4 mL (80mg) with a 25 ga 5/8" needle into quads and glutes. I'm feeling really good, with a lot more energy and motivation. Sleeping better as well. I used to be a lot more tired by the end of the day. I think is was less than $200 for a 3 month supply of test cyp and anastrozole 200mg. Will test new numbers in 6 weeks or so. Not sure if they'll send me the prescription. $129 for 10 mL test cyp and syringes, $36 for the anastrozole, $19 shipping.

Wish I would have started this 10 years ago...

[Druber]

(07-17-2015 09:42 PM)Engineer Wrote:  

(06-04-2015 01:57 PM)scubadude Wrote:  

Those Defy prices seem reasonable.

Is there an additional annual fee or just pay for the 2 required consults?

Will they send you the prescription or only ship the test from their pharmacy? If so what is the cost per 10ml of test? What is the shipping and handling fee?

What weekly dose will they prescribe you to start?

UPDATE
So my numbers used to be 225 total, 7.1 free. Now just finished my first month, injecting 2x/week 0.4 mL (80mg) with a 25 ga 5/8" needle into quads and glutes. I'm feeling really good, with a lot more energy and motivation. Sleeping better as well. I used to be a lot more tired by the end of the day. I think is was less than $200 for a 3 month supply of test cyp and anastrozole 200mg. Will test new numbers in 6 weeks or so. Not sure if they'll send me the prescription. $129 for 10 mL test cyp and syringes, $36 for the anastrozole, $19 shipping.

Wish I would have started this 10 years ago...

Good to hear that.

I'll be seeing someone today (privately), to get Nebido injections, and hopefully some aromatase inhibitors. Re AI; any decent ones?

[Eskhander]

I suspect I do. Very thin face.

[Hotline]

I had lab work done about 6 months ago during a routine physical. Result was ~250 total, 3.7 free. I am in my late 20's

At the time I knew this was bad but I hadn't read any of these threads and I didn't feel much different, so I didn't care or do anything about it.

A couple months ago I started to feel the side effects commonly associated with low test. Primarily, my drive to game had evaporated.

I stopped drinking, changed my diet, made sure to get as much sleep as possible. This also hurt my night game quite a bit but it was a necessary sacrifice. This was about 6 weeks ago.

Just got the results of a test done last week and total was over 700, free over 20.

A lifestyle change won't work for everyone, I had other tests done to rule out physiological causes, but it is possible. I spoke to to personal trainer about this who said a diet wouldn't cause test to drop as low as 250 at my bf% (which is around 15).

[StrengthBySonny]

Yea... Thats the world we live in... T levels are plummeting thanks to chemicals (physical) and state controlled anti-male propaganda (mental/conditional).

[blck]

Getting this thread out of its grave because it's not about T injections and won't create another thread about it

Heartiste wrote about this Low-T problem that worth some attention:

Quote:

That’s what 100% true:
* no sex attraction. At all. To the point of complete celibacy for years – no interest in girls. Function was there, and very decent (last for long, recharge fast, though enjoyed the foreplay more than actual sex), but quick fap felt better to release pressure. And that’s what sex was about: releasing pressure. Started dating out of sense of loneliness. Women had to initiate sex when she wanted it (they usually did, as on the outside I’m Mr. Right from romance novels).
* total blindness toward any signals from women. They just don’t register.
* no interest toward team sport. I love boxing though, and ran daily sparrings for a decade. No problem with being competitive or dominant in work setting.
* never owned a car (but you don’t really need one in Europe). Always was irrelevant to cars.
* good erection required fetish. Mine was D/s on D side.
* facial features softened (and started changing back surprisingly fast with T levels restored). No facial hairs at 30 (again, fixed with T – although it was convenient). No problem with nose, ears or other body parts.

One more: depression as a norm of life. Suicide intentions for years. That fueled passive attitude toward the world and may have been seen like weakness.

After discussing with friends and familly I had to assess that a lot of people (myself included) get those biomarkers (also with extreme fatigue, no drive or will to do things, not being able to lose belly fat or pecs fat even with good amount of cardio and lifting) but keep thinking that it's due to bad weather or stress in bad work environment.



Getting a prescription can be difficult with your doctor starts asking you why you want to get your T level tested, that you look just fine and I won't even talk about getting TRT so even getting tested check if you got hit by one of those, surely the others will follows sooner or later.

PS: Getting married also trigger those so the parallel can be identified there as well.

[rudebwoy]

^I have an enlarged prostate, I went through some very uncomfortable tests regarding my prostate.

I DON'T have low T.

I also don't have any of the symptoms described in that picture.

I am in my late 40s and could fap everyday if it wasn't for a strong willpower.

Change your diet, meaning limit the junk food and get your greens/fruits in.

Alcohol isn't your friend, a few glasses once a week won't kill you.

Exercise - lots of cardio to get the blood flowing and a few muscle resistant exercises. Do leg exercises, that will increase your T levels.

Long term TRT use will shut down your natural production, so make it your last resort.

[debeguiled]

Low T, like anything, cannot be taken for granted. One minute you are sailing along, confident in your lack of confidence, knowing you have the skills to take a nap anywhere, anytime, your stomach a mobile pillow, and then one day ( What the fuck?) that sucker slips away from you.

You may be lucky enough to have been born with it, but you have to secure it, and that takes work.

A great place to start is a pair of stylish glasses that are plain glass if your eyes are fine. Making key chains from your own hair and selling them at a farmer's market is good too. If you have naturally muscular calves, for god's sake hide them in a pair of roomy long pants. This has the added benefit of making you long for the comfier cargo pants you prefer. Whining and staring petulantly at other guys in cargo pants who don't know how good they have it is excellent for lowering testosterone.

Have a couple milkshakes to make yourself feel better. This hits your pleasure centers as well as making you need to let out your belt a notch. This is low T multitasking. If you have run out of notches on your belt, don't fix it yourself, pay a lot of money at a shoe repair or horse tack place to have someone else do it, preferably a woman. Tell everyone about it later, saying you like to work smart not hard.

Trying to get people to do things for you you could easily do yourself will keep your testosterone levels where they should be. Remind them of things you did for them ages ago, as if you are a mafia don calling in markers: "What, you won't give me a ride to the mall? That's funny, because you sure seemed to enjoy that keychain I gave you four years ago. A lot of love went into that, man, a lot of love."

That's how you do it.

Don't take your low T for granted! Secure that sucker.

[Kratomite]

Not sure I agree with those symptoms...

A lot of skinny/ripped guys have low-T simply from not eating enough. I looked like a greek god at 160lbs - still had low T.

There's no way to know for sure without a blood test.