[pimpc]

alrite the title doest explain it that well. but this is what i mean. everyone knows you can't be the nice guy from the moment you meet a girl or start talking to them because they are gunna take you for a low confidence pussy. so you play the confident role of you know what ur doing. but now how far into a conversation or soemthing do you realize you can be the nice guy and not get mistaken for weakness?

b/c the other way around .. if you continue to be the confident type and never step off your game you might get looked at lke an asshole


this is all stemming from a txt convo i had last nite and i tink i mights messed shit up

[Basil Ransom]

(10-04-2008 01:46 PM)pimpc Wrote:  

alrite the title doest explain it that well. but this is what i mean. everyone knows you can't be the nice guy from the moment you meet a girl or start talking to them because they are gunna take you for a low confidence pussy.

There are different aspects to being 'the nice guy,' some of which aren't related to being nice. This guy wants pussy like any other, so he figures he'll do what girls want to get what they want. That's why they're always trying to please her. You can be a nice person without waiting on the ephemeral whims of girls. Don't try to make her laugh, just say shit that you find funny, and she will laugh.

If she's acting out of line, call her out on it.

But yeah, it increasingly seems like being an asshole not just confident yields more success than otherwise. Here are some good pointers Roissy wrote:

Roissy Wrote:

Girls hate nothing more than incongruence, because it triggers their “false alpha flag” reflex. Here’s a handy asshole chart I’ve devised to help you understand the nuances of assholery:

Asshole + Alpha + Charm = get laid like gangbusters.
Asshole + Alpha = get laid regularly.
Asshole + Beta = get laid occasionally.
Asshole + Lesser Beta = don’t get laid but win moral victory in face of rejection.
Asshole + Omega = she gets her guy friends to beat you up.
Asshole + Lesser Omega = she gets her girl friends to beat you up.

So you can see the power of assholery is somewhat relative to the sexual market value of the man. I like that you are channeling your inner asshole, but you need to get a handle on your other game skills before you start spewing insults like a bum with Tourettes. Being an asshole works best when used as an adjunct to good game.

That may be why your asshole mien fails. I've certainly had it fail on me, eg me saying something harsh and girls walking away.

[pimpc]

well let me throw out this convo and see what u guys think. i mighta overstepped it a little bit. this is txting a girl i saw at a party last week. i talked to her for like 20 mins prolly .. we took a few shots i was drunk as hell .. she had to leave and before she left she gave me here number and i gave her a kiss. anyway .. last nite i was drunk and endd up not doin anything so i was shotgun txtin ppl .. heres how the convo went .. this was also like late too .. like 1:30

me: yoo
her: hey!
me: whats goin on
her: partyin
me: where at
her: i'm actually walkin home now
me: aw thats so disapointing
her: where are you?
me: my apt
her: i'm on south allen(streetname)
me: thats like a block from my apt
her: oh really?
me: yea, you should stop by
her: whatr u doin?
me: partyin but its kinda clearin out now
her: o man and no invite i'm so heartbroken
me: i'll make it up to you, it was more of my roommates party anyway
her: you better!
me: we're gunna have to see each other for that to happen
her: truth
me: so why not sometime soon
her: tell me when
me: tonite?

hah yep then that was the end of the convo .. whatd i do right/wrong .. lookin at it now i feel like i was just too forward

[Basil Ransom]

Mistakes:
You're texting her late. You're telling her, hey I got no ass tonight, so you're gonna be tonight's sloppy hoe. It's not a pickmeup to get a text at 1 AM to come over. Needy.

You're texting too much. I text a bit, but never a volley of texts like that. Texting any more than twice in the same 'convo' just seems remarkably pussy and annoying.

You didn't say anything remotely jerkish, which may make it worse. If you were the least bit a jerk, you wouldn't have said "i'll make it up to you." Hmm I mighta said something like, aww you're so frail, it's so cute", depends how I'm feeling.

[pimpc]

most appreciated .. i need a swift kick in the ass man .. brutally honest is how i like it

[Trotter]

I think it was a bit too chatty. Also you're suggesting that she's the approver in this exchange by saying stuff like I'll make it up to you and stuff.

I would have used fewer texts and be a bit more commanding.

[twigman]

It seems like (some) in the pick up community revere the 'Jerk', but from my standpoint, at some stage I don't want to be yanking a woman around, because I hate the idea of having to make an effort to do that. Its not me. I just want to be confident and do my own thing.

I would say adopt this inner game attitude : You will get sex soon from someone (maybe not her), so there is no need to rush. Sex and attraction to you is a really common thing for you. WHen you adopt that view, things fall into place. Because you don't need her, and she can take it or leave it.

eg:

I would not have said "you should come by".

I would have said "wanna come help clean up? ". Its cheeky.

[Basil Ransom]

(10-05-2008 02:20 AM)twigman Wrote:  

It seems like (some) in the pick up community revere the 'Jerk', but from my standpoint, at some stage I don't want to be yanking a woman around, because I hate the idea of having to make an effort to do that. Its not me. I just want to be confident and do my own thing...

I would not have said "you should come by".

I would have said "wanna come help clean up? ". Its cheeky.

Yeah, the "wanna come help clean up" line is nice. I would say (preferably over the phone because 'emoticons' are kind of gay), "hey, come help me clean up," perhaps with more vivid detail, and with the cocky smirk tonality.

I've made this mistake, giving a raw command to a girl. It's better to frame the command with humor - she'll still hear the command, but humor will weaken her defenses. Kinda like how I hate when my stepmother tells me to do things because she's tactless, while my dad is humorous about it, yet I understand he means business, so the chore gets done.

BTW, being an asshole definitely backfires a lot of the time. Last night I ran into a girl who was supposed to have a date with me, and she asked for a raincheck and then proceeded to not return my call. And she never drinks because she thinks she's extroverted enough. So when I ran into her, I was rather malicious in conversation, and tipsy, and she ran off. Though properly classified, I was more reacting than being an asshole.

[Roosh]

It's okay to be friendly, charming, and fun, if that's what you are asking. Supplicating (doing favors, being accommodating, trying to impress) is generally what we mean by "nice".

[pimpc]

i find myself in a tight situation. i'm in college and i haven't hooked up w/ a girl in a while. i've never had a girlfriend before. in high school i didnt really have to try to hook up w/ girls b/c i would be around them all the time .. then if i just like talked to them it would go down. but now things are different, i feel almost desperate. i kind of want a girlfriend, but at the same time i feel like i should be just trying to hook up w/ girls every weekend. but its not working out either way. i can't keep a focus .. and parties are so crazy .. theyre never chill. so i put too much pressure on myself each time i talk to a girl. and since i've never really gone out picked up a girl and brought one back .. its kind of hard since its my first time. its not high school anynmore

[zorgon]

pimpc, you gotta cheer up a bit. Let me put it this way:
- I was the dorkiest, most socially retarded kid you can imagine, and I work in the computer industry, which is basically devoid of both women and alpha males.
- I had dates with a total of 2 girls in high school. (In both cases: nothing happened.)
- I did not go on a single date during college.
- After college, I continued to be utterly clueless about women for quite some time, and probably went on a date with about 15-20 girls before a *SINGLE ONE* of them would so much as agree to go on a second date with me. That's seriously painful to a guy's self-esteem.
- As I was finally starting to figure things out, I proceeded to get myself into a totally screwed-up LTR that set me back another year and a half.

Look, it can be easy to get frustrated. I'm doing better now, but I would certainly not say that I am satisfied with my current level of success with women. At the same time -- I *know* I'm finally getting my act together.

If you put in the effort, sooner or later you will get results. I guarantee it.

[pimpc]

i dont know hwat it is .. i feel like in high school i was so much better socially, and w/ women than in college.. its like i just lost it since i got to college. and i can't understand why. what makes it worse is that i feel like this is the time when i'm supposed to be meeting/getting w/ girls and i'm not .. so i'm afraid i'm gunna waste it

[Basil Ransom]

Are you a virgin? It sounds like you want to get laid by a bunch of girls, but you feel like you'll only really get sex if you settle down with one. My modus operandi is too try and hook up with girls on the weekend, and then try and get a date later. I've had success with the hookups, but past that, not much has happened for this semester. If it continues to fail, I'll try pulling girls to my house the same night, and even if there's no sex then, they'll be much more invested having entered my house - they're usually with their dormmates though, who can be pretty protective. An alternative is inviting girls I've met during the day to parties, but I haven't done much of that.

Girls usually want to hookup a couple times before they have sex with you. And they may not want to go out of their way to meet up with you when they can go to a party and get their pick.

Here's my frat party game: Get tipsy, go to a frat party, go ask the first attractive single chick you see on the dance floor to dance (read: grind) with you. hump from the behind for a song or two (I noticed this past weekend I'd try to turn 'em around too soon, and they seemed to think this was needy or sketchy - dancing front to front is harder too). Talk to them a little - I tried "[state of my school]?" because I'm from the opposite end of the country, and I tell them all the NEers look the same to me. It's honestly stupid shit, but they're drunk freshmen. Keep talking, turn her around at some point, grind some more, then go for the kiss. Kiss for a while, then tell her hey let's go to the bar and get some water. Do that, and then just talk to her, get her number, etc. I'm a horrible dancer, physically stiff, but it doesn't matter.

In my experience, sex in college is a lot less common than people make it out to be: "The 2004 University of Arizona Health and Wellness Survey of their student body found that 73 percent had one or fewer sexual partners. A 2001 study of students at Princeton University found that 79.3 percent of respondents had one or fewer sexual partners. A 1998 study of a "Midwestern commuter college" found 68 percent of sexually active respondents reported having one sexual partner during the previous year. Eighteen percent of respondents reported having had two partners. " (survey data for one year, not students' lifetime) http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0607.html

At University of Arizona, party effing central, the vast majority of girls have slept with 0-1 guys within the last year. Another 15-20% have slept with two guys. So you aren't a total loser if you're not banging chicks every weekend.

Maybe if you're in a top frat or on the football team, etc. it would be different.

[Trotter]

Yeah, but it's all in the interpretation of that study. One guy that knows how to pick up women could have accounted for that 73%! Thus putting him in the 15% percentile of having relations with two or more.

[Klunk]

This post is awesome so far. I definitely cosign basilransom's last post as far as the frat dance thing goes. In fact I pulled that little dance-to-kiss thing off for the first time last week and I thought I was the shit. Keep the advice coming ransom, I just recently started down the path to improving my game, and I've been in the same boat as pimpc for some time now.

I'm usually pretty confident once I've gotten some liquid courage in me, but I'm trying to work on my confidence outside of the party. My goal is to be able to go to a party and not feel the need to pregame. Or to just approach a woman during the day.

[Sarryn]

Sup,
To answer the opening post: Doesn't make excuses for who you are. You need to know who you are and what your personality is and make NO excuses for being congruent with how you act. I'm a jerk whose very C&F. Some of the shit I say is so off the wall and sometimes rude and yet I get positive responses because of my delivery and girls can sense I'm congruent. If they shit-test me on what I say, I look at them as if they're weird not the other way around.

I also read your little convo with her. You're way too needy...

[pimpc]

i'm not a virgin .. but the only girls i've had sex w/ were girls that i knew in high school and it was just too easy for me. now i dont really know the gameplan for having sex w/ a random girl. basilranson .. u kinda helped out a lot actually by saying .. grind, kiss, hook up .. and then after you hook up a few times you'll have sex ... thats good advice. because i'm always wondering/worrying when i'd have sex w/ a random hookup. i used to just think i would go out get a girl then come back and have sex.. but i'm learing that its not just like that. i seem to be on the right track, because i've been down w/ the idea of going out dancing w/ a chick then making out w/ her. but after that i never knew if i just come back and bang or if we just hook up. but if most girls are down for just hooking up a few times then thats actually even better and sets my mind at ease a little bit

[ned]

chill out man. you're doin fine. just be confident. and if you're not, fake it till you feel it. it's what i tell my cousins all the time

[Sarryn]

(10-08-2008 04:45 PM)pimpc Wrote:  

i'm not a virgin .. but the only girls i've had sex w/ were girls that i knew in high school and it was just too easy for me. now i dont really know the gameplan for having sex w/ a random girl. basilranson .. u kinda helped out a lot actually by saying .. grind, kiss, hook up .. and then after you hook up a few times you'll have sex ... thats good advice. because i'm always wondering/worrying when i'd have sex w/ a random hookup. i used to just think i would go out get a girl then come back and have sex.. but i'm learing that its not just like that. i seem to be on the right track, because i've been down w/ the idea of going out dancing w/ a chick then making out w/ her. but after that i never knew if i just come back and bang or if we just hook up. but if most girls are down for just hooking up a few times then thats actually even better and sets my mind at ease a little bit

Hooking up with a girl multiple times, takes some game. Don't fool yourself.

If you haven't already, I highly suggest reading through the layguide or pickupguide. You need to learn to manage neediness and DHV. (Display high value)

[twigman]

For a young man, sex can be a holy grail. Bigger than its made out to be.

Sex is more of a natural progression : more natural to go from kissing to sex than from touching to the 1st kiss.

Be comfortable, and show her comfort. Lead her around your apartment, make a cup of tea, sit her down, play a few records, get up and lead her around again - with comfort and attraction, and a little bit of shyness of your part, and kissing - sex will happen. I mean, girls are actually hornier than we give them credit for.

So relax. It'll happen. FOr me, I was mr clueless, lots of girls knew more than I did - and they just took control. Thats fine. YOu just laugh and tell her to show you her wild side. Girls don't like fake macho. If you explicitly give her control - you're the one in control.