[rumguzzler]

You're a happy, laid-back, outgoing guy. Girl drops into your life, and gets in to you. A lot. You keep others on the side, your game is tight. You've got no worries, you think you're the man for bagging such a hot piece of ass.

But the little devil in back of your mind continues to tease your slut-sonar with his pitchfork. They're faint, almost unoticeable, but every couple of weeks there's a little ping.

Six months later, still seeing each other and the other girls have disappeared and you think you've got the real deal. Because you're also an intelligent prick and a detective at heart, you decide enough's enough - you must resolve your suspicions. Maybe you checked her phone, camera, keylogged her password, checked her phone records.

What you discover does not please you. No conclusive evidence she's cheated, however there's plenty of indication she's keeping a couple dudes in reserve and she wasn't betting on one horse when you met her, either. She doesn't acknowledge the incessant attempt of suitors, new and former, to win her heart, but she doesn't reject them either.

Is ignorance bliss? Discuss and what action should be taken.

[charmer]

No this isnt ignorance,this is cheating.

[Lumiere]

If you have jealousy and possessiveness in your life you are going to suffer.

Would you prefer to suffer or to not suffer?

[Rocco81]

Naaah man. I think in this case ignorance is bliss. I mean you aren't really ignorant of anything are you? She most likely is not banging any of these guys and maybe they are just co-workers, friends etc. Then again if there is a suspicione then who knows, maybe there are other signes that have pushed you to this point.

What is bad is if she is def. getting banged out all the time while you sit idely by playing the part of the fool. That sucks and in that case ignorance makes you look like a bitch.

If you really want some resolution, set her up and catch her. Even if its just a phone call from a guy friend, catch her on it and call her out. That way you set the new ground rules, you call the shots, Def. if you are starting to care about this chick you want some ground rules set, maybe this is the time bro?

[hydrogonian]

Theres nothing you can do about it. Confronting her likely would only make it worse, or drive her into someone else's arms. If I had to pick one thing that I knew about people, and I really only know this one thing, its that they don't change.

The most you can do is try to find a more loyal woman.

Or you can try and step your commitment game up. This may keep her from feeling the need to keep her options open.

Remember, her not knowing that you checked up on her is your advantage. Don't give that up by showing your hand. Let her do her thing, and either stay or go as the situation dictates.

[Rocco81]

Exactly... Hydro at it again with some good advice.

I would differ a little in saying you can confront the situation but in an indirect manner. If you really like this chick and think she is the one, like Hydro said, maybe its time you stop gamming and show a little more of you to her. Not to sound like a bitch, but after 6 months the innitial gaming should start to trail off (of course unless you just want to bang her and many other girls) but you need to move into more relationship game. Is she the girl you really want? You sure?

Relationship game is somewhat different. You got to bring a few moves to keep things interesting and make sure you stay on top of shit, but you certainly don't want to keep up the confident cocky shit too much..once you switch gears maybe she will too. I know that after a while of playing the field you kind of stay in that mode and you can bet all women will pick up on that shit. Maybe she thinks you're on the way out and she is just wanting a fall back.

[rumguzzler]

Hydro comes the "closest" to the correct answer:

Jealousy and possessiveness are signature traits of testosterone filled males - any Alpha worth his salt has them. Controlling them is also a measure of his alphaness, and that's were most fail.

Generalized: Relationship game is normal game toned down a notch interspersed with more moments of vulnerability.

Relationship game must also be calibrated according to the type of girl you're dating. Making HER jealous is key - therefore, always ensure to make her not take you granted - some girls can be with you, and take you somewhat for granted, but still be amazing girlfriends because they know that's how it works and they like it that way. They have a strong concept of right and wrong, and would more likely dump you because you're not committed enough than for lack of attraction.

Other women are always searching for that "in love" feeling and they cheat. They write "life is about having fun" on facebook (or similarly mindless hippie shit) and they justify everything according to their feelings. They lose attraction for you and mercilessly dump you when they do. She'll call you weird and tell her friends you suck one week, and suck your dick the next.

They'll NEVER admit it, but you can cheat on them, and they'll love you more as you push-pull, declaring powerful feelings of devotion one moment, then cancelling one date after the other the following week as you jack-hammer fuck the rest of your harem.

The above girl can be diagnosed in the "live life to the fullest" category.

And hydro is right. You can't change her. The best you can do is observe her behavior, and love her for what she is, which is an endearing, charming, fun-loving feminine creature who makes you love being a man - while working hard on ensuring you've plenty of babes on the bench ready to take her place as "mi amor numero uno", and by doing this I mean sleeping with them regularly so you don't ass-rape yourself with one-itis.

She's the type who doesn't commit fully, but will expect you to commit. Don't let it come easily. Make it a long, arduous, hard struggle for her to win over the love you give to no one.

The longer and more arduous the quest for her to win your heart over, the longer and stronger the relationship will be.

In my experience with the above - ignorance would've been bliss. It had no bearing on how the game should be played and provided no conclusive evidence for me to dump her. All it did was ramp up my emotions and kept me looking for ways to pry into matters that I would never be able to get a straight answer out of anyways - long story-short - ignorance is bliss, because you can almost always tell what kind of girl you're dealing with, and in today's world of scoring and whoring, you know one type is entitled to your early commitment, the other has to walk through hell to earn yours, because if she doesn't, you know she'll eventually leave you.

[hydrogonian]

(07-08-2010 02:48 PM)rumguzzler Wrote:  

The longer and more arduous the quest for her to win your heart over, the longer and stronger the relationship will be.

I like this quote. Its very true.

haha...I didn't realize this was a quiz! I like it though, an attempt to keep guys on their toes.

[kerouac]

It's not so much that ignorance is bliss, it's that you should use the information you have to your advantage.

If you get the feeling that some shit is going on behind your back that you don't like, it's time you figure out how you're going to move forward. Start flirting with some more girls and find another good one, or just get back to dating with different girls again.

There's no point really confronting her, because she will most likely deny everything, and as everyone above said, use this position to her advantage. Just move forward, independently.

You'll find that you're going to find as equally attractive, or even more attractive, girls out there in the world who are just as into you, and who are more trustworthy.

[Lumiere]

(07-08-2010 02:48 PM)rumguzzler Wrote:  

Jealousy and possessiveness are signature traits of testosterone filled males - any Alpha worth his salt has them.

NOPE AND NOPE

[Rocco81]

Lumeire I gotta side with Rumguzzler here. It's not always a cut and dry case of jealousy in the classical sense of the word, but most men by nature are atleast somewhat territorial and possessive of the shit they love..not only women.

[kerouac]

The true answer to what is alpha comes with this question: "What would Sean Connery do?"

[Lumiere]

(07-09-2010 10:45 AM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

Lumeire I gotta side with Rumguzzler here. It's not always a cut and dry case of jealousy in the classical sense of the word, but most men by nature are atleast somewhat territorial and possessive of the shit they love..not only women.

agreed but it is primarily to do with basing relationships on sexual ownership and has nothing to do with being alpha or beta

if anything, alpha guys are less likely to be like this because they will be coming from an abundance mentality

[hydrogonian]

(07-09-2010 02:19 PM)kerouac Wrote:  

The true answer to what is alpha comes with this question: "What would Sean Connery do?"

Precisely. If your doing something different, then something is probably off.

While jealousy and possessiveness don't have any place in the first few months of a relationship, there is a certain point that you reach where if she is dong things that should make most guys jealous or possessive, then something is wrong and you need to put her in check.

However, a guy with options will make it clear what he expects of her one time, and then moves on if she doesn't comply. He wouldn't reward disloyal or immature behavior with his continued attention. Him moving on quickly will be far more effective in modifying her behavior than anything that he could otherwise say or do.

Also, I no longer have any motivation to play the "make her jealous game" with any woman, beyond very light hearted flirtation with other women. If I really need to play that game to keep her attracted, then she isn't mature enough for me or otherwise likely has a typical personality disorder. Women that need this type of game are generally only good for sex.

[rumguzzler]

So let me provide a follow-up question to my little feedback quiz:

Let's assume you back off and begin to date other women, flirt more, and your sweetie-pie, who has revealed herself (via your investigative measures) a potential slut and cheater, now confronts you.

"What's happening?! Don't you like me anymore?"

"I don't feel like you care!"

"I can't go on like this!"

Turn on the daddy-do-what-I-want tears - the sniffling begins - she is ripping the emotional carpet under you, barring her heart for you to save or stab.

The beta would declare his love and devotion - and sign his death-warrant.

What would the alpha do? You KNOW she's a slut, but in the midst of her emotional turmoil, you know have a chance to smite the slut in her a might blow! You have information that compels you to disqualify her, but she's begging you to qualify her - do you confront her now? How?

[Quasi]

Maybe she is just running her girl game the other way around and keep a few suiters hanging because it makes her less likely to fall for you.. and she allready knows your a dog, so she isnt really sure about you.. and your intentions?

Like the quote and like the dragging it out making her work harder good options IMO. But it sounds like your allready crossed over somehow, connecting emotionally, thats why you otherwise post here and obsess about checking her personal shit out (which isnt a good sign).. its really shows your allready gone, so maybe its better to cut the crap and the pretense and give it a shot.. might be worth it, might be a borderline slut.. but fuck.. you more than "like" her and seriously think your lucky to be with her.. so maybe give it a shoot..

Crash and burn isnt bad or beta.. "Our wisdom comes from our experience, and our experience comes from our foolishness"

Who knows maybe you will have some more good times, just dont forget your lessons learned

[hydrogonian]

(07-13-2010 06:17 AM)rumguzzler Wrote:  

So let me provide a follow-up question to my little feedback quiz:

Let's assume you back off and begin to date other women, flirt more, and your sweetie-pie, who has revealed herself (via your investigative measures) a potential slut and cheater, now confronts you.

"What's happening?! Don't you like me anymore?"

"I don't feel like you care!"

"I don't."

(07-13-2010 06:17 AM)rumguzzler Wrote:  

"I can't go on like this!"

"I'm sorry that you feel so badly, but I need a certain type of woman in my life. You chose to be the other kind. It just won't work."

At that point, if she has made it painfully clear that she is willing to permanently modify her behavior, then I might put her on permanent probation instead of dumping her. This is after I make it clear that if I even suspect disloyalty at any point in time in the future, then she's gone like she never even existed. If she wants to stay with me, then her primary job for the rest of her time with me is to keep me convinced that she's loyal and devoted to me.

Any other response, and she's gone right then.

Behavior modification 101. Actions and consequences, not emotion. Then, if she's willing to comply, I might reward that action with a decent night out. So, threat of negative consequences for non-compliance (remember that Ive already demonstrated that I'm more than willing to follow through) reinforced with moderate positive actions for compliance. Remember, that if she complies, you cant hold it over her head in a way that she is constantly reminded. This stress will cause her to lose attraction. You just have to go back to normal, all the while keeping in mind your agreement and being aware of any breaches in it. At that point, you would drop the hammer without flinching.

Thats the most effort that I would be willing to put into a situation such as this. If any more were to be required, then I would completely lose interest.

[Quasi]

Thats all well in teory hydro, but IRL he isnt likely to be able to pull that off, if he is allready emotionally into her..

[clr]

I (again wtf) agree with Hydro, BUT i dont agree Jealousy and possesiveness are signs of an alpha male, they are signs of an insecure male. Jealously is almost always based in insecurity. A slight bit of each I find is normal but controllable and based more in protective, territorial, this is mine, mentality. Thats Alpha.

To use Sean Connery example, I couldnt imagine him being jealous and possessive, UNLESS it crosses a certain point, then the law gets laid down. thats how I am, almost zero, BUT she is mine, and you dont fuck with whats mine. If a man crosses the line(or she does) I will let it be known that behavior in unacceptable.

I think the point is Quasi, and I have heard women say this dozens of times, regardless of how invested you are, you have to have respect for yourself first and foremost. If she cant contribute to a healthy relationship (ie cheating, lying, being dishonest) are you going to stay in just because you are invested emotionally? After a few fuckups I can now say I wont.

I wish I could find the study, but when you get behavior you dont like, ie, fighting yelling etc.... give an emotionless face, its a way of discouraging behavior you dont like. I keep completely neutral and let a girl burn her self out with no reaction or emotion. If you dont argue/fight back they have nothing to feed off of and the fire burns out quickly.

[hydrogonian]

I agree. Possessiveness and jealousy isn't alpha. Those traits will do you no good when trying to get laid. As a matter of fact, being the opposite will go a long way in getting laid.

However, lets say its your fiancée or wife. At that point, if a guy claims not to have some level of jealousy or possessiveness in certain situations, a guy is either
1.Lying
2. An emotional robot who has no business getting married
3. Not into the girl enough for the level of commitment he is about to make or has made. He was much better off single.

And what if you don't believe in marriage, but choose to get fully emotionally involved with the woman as a partner? I think that the same would apply.

Now, I would never go that far with a girl that I didn't trust implicitly, and therefore I wouldn't care who she talked with, danced with, went out with, etc (within reason) but this is an example.

There's a certain level of emotional involvement with someone where jealousy and possessiveness is natural, to a point, if there is a is legitimate reason for it. If you don't care if your wife is getting sexual with another dude, then you have well over-shot the whole non-needy non-jealous alpha thing, and you just might have something legitimately unhealthy and broken in your ability to love a woman.

I think that the non-alphaness of those traits is better stated as its non-alpha to get emotionally involved with random girls, that you have sex with or go out with, to the point where you are jealous or possessive. So, non-alphas will get all attached, needy and jealous, and alphas won't be jealous because they stay emotionally distant to their random lays.

I'm just bullshitting with these concepts, but I think at a certain point both she and you will feel better if your at least a little protective. But as before stated, if she continuously gave me a reason to feel that way, then we wouldn't last long.

[rumguzzler]

Just don't kid yourself.

For your information, the above scenario played itself out a year ago.

I fucked up badly. Now I'm back in the game.