[cardguy]

UBL was a fan of alot of Western culture. He was a soccer fan (he supported Arsenal), he loved Whitney Houston and his favourite TV show was 'The Wonder Years'.

Don't tell the FBI - but I love soccer, Whiteny Houston and 'The Wonder Years' as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/art...sband.html

[cycliss]

Quote:

Tell me where I was factually wrong. The first Jew was Abraham, according to OT. He didn't kill anyone. Moses? he killed an Egyptian guard to escape from enslavement? Jesus? Killed no one. Was all about forgiveness.

The Crusades were perpetrated by the Catholic church. Many argue that they are an evil organization. Protestant sects and Orthodox Christians have done much less in comparison. Where in the Bible is the violence of the crusades justified? There isn't one verse about spreading Christianity with the sword. In fact, for the first 300 years after Christ's death, Christians were regularly being slaughtered for their faith.

Islam is a wild, violent religion. And the fact remains that Muhummad ordered the murder of thousands of people. He was a cruel, despotic military leader. Non-Muslims, according to the Quran, are to be treated with contempt and some instances, are allowed to be executed with impunity.

In the bible, God commands the Jews to commit genocide against the Canaanites. He specifically instructs them to exterminate all men, women, and children to make living space for his chosen people. He also drowns the Phaeroh's army in the Red Sea, massacres ~200,000 Assyrians by plague, slaughters the Midianites, Ai, Makkedah, Hazor, Hebron, Debir, Anab etc. The bible has its military warlords too like King David.

Anyone can twist these words to whatever they want it to mean because its all fairytale bullshit that never made sense to begin with. Blaming the religion on its own without taking into account actual history is pure ignorance.

[renotime]

(04-23-2013 01:00 AM)megatron Wrote:  

(04-23-2013 12:45 AM)cycliss Wrote:  

(04-23-2013 12:29 AM)megatron Wrote:  

We have to get out our military out of the middle east (and every country for that matter). This will never happen, but it would eliminate Muslim hatred and terrorist attacks on us.

Nonetheless, Islam is not a religion of peace. What other religion boasts a prophet who killed thousands of people? Not Judaism or Christianity. Jesus was a pacifist and forgiver. Muhummad was a warlord.

Read some Old Testament. And the history of the Crusades... Christianity isn't any better.

Tell me where I was factually wrong. The first Jew was Abraham, according to OT. He didn't kill anyone. Moses? he killed an Egyptian guard to escape from enslavement? Jesus? Killed no one. Was all about forgiveness.

The Crusades were perpetrated by the Catholic church. Many argue that they are an evil organization. Protestant sects and Orthodox Christians have done much less in comparison. Where in the Bible is the violence of the crusades justified? There isn't one verse about spreading Christianity with the sword. In fact, for the first 300 years after Christ's death, Christians were regularly being slaughtered for their faith.

Islam is a wild, violent religion. And the fact remains that Muhummad ordered the murder of thousands of people. He was a cruel, despotic military leader. Non-Muslims, according to the Quran, are to be treated with contempt and some instances, are allowed to be executed with impunity.

Let's not kid ourselves. The Bible is full of some great, visceral, fucked up violence.

Here are some epic Bible quotes:

Ezekiel 9:6 "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women . . . "

Isaiah 13:16 "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."

Deuteronomy 13:15 "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly . . . "

Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death . . . "

Exodus 32:27 ". . . Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor."

But yeah, I'd say as a whole Muslims have killed way more people than any other religion.

But to say the Catholic Church doesn't have any blood on their hands is a baseless claim.

[MikeinMKE]

I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard somebody say "I fucking hate Bill Maher, but boy he sure makes a good point here."

Bill Maher has the smartest, most ambitious, balanced (left and right guests who TRULY get equal time) show on television, and it's been that way for nearly two decades (ABC and HBO).

Show me the somebody who says "I hate Bill Maher, but boy he sure makes a good point here" and I'll show you somebody that doesn't have HBO, doesn't watch his show, and goes on hearsay.

[MikeinMKE]

(04-23-2013 01:06 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

UBL was a fan of alot of Western culture. He was a soccer fan (he supported Arsenal), he loved Whitney Houston and his favourite TV show was 'The Wonder Years'.

Don't tell the FBI - but I love soccer, Whiteny Houston and 'The Wonder Years' as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/art...sband.html

Hitler loved children and was a great dog owner. So what's your point?

[MikeinMKE]

Quote:

But to say the Catholic Church doesn't have any blood on their hands is a baseless claim.

Umm - so you went back 500 years in history to prove that there was once a tine when Islam wasn't the most violent religion in the world? congrats...I guess. Not really sure how that's relevant to the topic of this thread and present day Islam.

[cardguy]

I'm just pointing out that Osama Bin Laden attacked the US for it's support of Israel - and because US troops were stationed in Saudi Arabia (after 9/11 they left Saudi Arabia by the way).

And not because Osama Bin Laden 'hated our way of life.'

[MikeinMKE]

(04-23-2013 12:31 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

The genie is out of the bottle.

Israel has nuclear weapons pointed at every major city in the US and Europe.

If Israel goes down, we all go down. The best way to ensure help from your friends against your enemies. Is to threaten to attack your friends, if your enemies attack you.

You did a good job hiding your radical anti Semitism for like 2 posts in this thread. An "atheist" who sympathizes with conservative Muslims kind of raised my eyebrows. The statements above blew your cover completely.

[MikeinMKE]

(04-23-2013 02:02 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

I'm just pointing out that Osama Bin Laden attacked the US for it's support of Israel - and because US troops were stationed in Saudi Arabia (after 9/11 they left Saudi Arabia by the way).

And not because Osama Bin Laden 'hated our way of life.'

We have a right (and the might) to support whoever the fuck we want. If somebody doesn't like that they can fuck right off. I'm no flag waving conservative, but our foreign policy doesn't justify acts of terror against civilians in any way, shape, or form.

If Islamic countries dislike us they should refuse to trade with us and/or engage us within the constraints of the United Nations. Instead, they harbor terrorists, ratchet up tensions consistently, and actively commit atrocities on the reg.

There's a reason why a dyed in the wool liberal like Obama reversed his stance on Guantanimo prison and is droning fuckers like there's no tomorrow - because those guys are BAD FUCKING NEWS.

[cardguy]

I support Israel.

I think the holocaust still brings shame on the entire world.

And if Israel was ever destroyed due to Iranian nuclear weapons - then Israel would be fully justified in retaliating against Iran and the rest of the world. I support The Samson Option. And I support Israel bombing the shit out of western cities if it is ever attacked. Since that is the best way for Israel to ensure full support from the rest of the world.

To put it another way. If there were ever a second 'holocaust'. Then all bets should be off - and the rest of the world should share in Israel's suffering.

Sorry - you have the wrong guy, if you think I hate Jews.

[cardguy]

And I don't support Conservative Muslims. I just think their approach is more logical than somebody else's who wants to pick and choose what they believe.

Particularly - since Muslims believe the Koran is the literal word of God. And was written directly by God himself.

This is not the case with the Bible.

[renotime]

(04-23-2013 02:01 AM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

Quote:

But to say the Catholic Church doesn't have any blood on their hands is a baseless claim.

Umm - so you went back 500 years in history to prove that there was once a tine when Islam wasn't the most violent religion in the world? congrats...I guess. Not really sure how that's relevant to the topic of this thread and present day Islam.

Thanks for highlighting that one comment.

I don't really get how quoting the Bible has anything to do with present day Islam, either. But I didn't see you refuting any of those claims.

And The First Crusades started in 1096.

(04-23-2013 02:11 AM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

(04-23-2013 02:02 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

I'm just pointing out that Osama Bin Laden attacked the US for it's support of Israel - and because US troops were stationed in Saudi Arabia (after 9/11 they left Saudi Arabia by the way).

And not because Osama Bin Laden 'hated our way of life.'

We have a right (and the might) to support whoever the fuck we want. If somebody doesn't like that they can fuck right off. I'm no flag waving conservative, but our foreign policy doesn't justify acts of terror against civilians in any way, shape, or form.

If Islamic countries dislike us they should refuse to trade with us and/or engage us within the constraints of the United Nations. Instead, they harbor terrorists, ratchet up tensions consistently, and actively commit atrocities on the reg.

There's a reason why a dyed in the wool liberal like Obama reversed his stance on Guantanimo prison and is droning fuckers like there's no tomorrow - because those guys are BAD FUCKING NEWS.

There is no we. You think your vote matters? Ha. The lobbyists have everyone in their pocket.

[Duke Castile]

You guys blaming the US for muslim acts of terror are real cute with your reasons. But it doesn't account for the historical evidence of muslims trying to take over the world. Look at just the last 10 years of every major conflict around the world and you will see that in most of these conflicts MUSLIMS are behind it.

[LoveBug]

Great video... who created the mess in the Middle east is chicken or the egg argument. Either way, the modern problem of Islamic terror exists. It is blatant, and a stereotype Muslims just have to bear until this shit stops

[bojangles]

(04-23-2013 02:01 AM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

Quote:

But to say the Catholic Church doesn't have any blood on their hands is a baseless claim.

Umm - so you went back 500 years in history to prove that there was once a tine when Islam wasn't the most violent religion in the world? congrats...I guess. Not really sure how that's relevant to the topic of this thread and present day Islam.

See I think the problem with statements like this is that it is really ambiguous. The ambiguity comes from the fact that like Christianity, Islam is a widespread religion that encompasses many different cultures and ethnicities. Here in the UK we've suffered more over the last few decades from terrorists who are Roman Catholic than we have from Islamic, so do you think people in the UK tar all Roman Catholics with being the most violent religion?

Erm no, we understand that this is a small ethnic notably Irish part of that religion which blew up bombs throughout our sovereign kingdom and that we can't attribute that same violence to the French, JFK or the Italians.

In the same sense, are Kazakhstanis, Turks, Azerbaijanis, Bosnians and Albanians terrorists?
Are there Indonesians, Malaysians, Mauritanian or Berber bombers out there?
Or are the terrorists from the Arab Peninsula? of Pakistani ethnicity? of Pashtun origins?

Islam has a problem in that their book is so vague that any interpretation could be used from it. However religion is used to control the masses, you'd be an idiot to think that some of the Islamic rulers in the past that followed Mohammed conquered, raped and pillaged in the name of religion, they did it in the pursuit of power. If this was all in the name of religion why are more Muslims killed by Muslims than any other religion at present?

[bojangles]

(04-23-2013 12:56 AM)LibertarianBootyHunter Wrote:  

Why do Muslims clash with Buddhists .... (supposedly the most peaceful religion in the world) in central Myanmar ?

Muslims Vs Hindus in Northern India ? Christians have been living in India for hundreds of years. Ever heard of Hindu Vs Christian violence ?

Lol you can't use these two examples as support of your argument when you've phrased them both factually incorrect.

Buddhists are not the most peaceful religion in the world, no religion is peaceful, that is a myth. Buddhists are the ones burning Muslims in Burma at the moment, you're on crack if you think a military ruled buddhist majority state would let Muslims start killing Buddhists.

Northern India? Yeah that was us, the Hindus, we slaughtered hundreds of Muslims in the name of religion unfortunately, just because some Islamic ruler destroyed a temple 500 years ago and built a mosque on top it (ridiculous right?)

Yes, I've heard of Hindu vs Christian violence. If Christians had been living so peacefully in India for hundreds of years then the British would have never conquered the whole subcontinent, unless the British army was a bunch of hippies smoking weed and professing a peaceful takeover.

I agree with the rest of your post, especially in Africa, but I just think Africans are generally thick and easily influenced by witch doctors, religion, etc.

[MikeinMKE]

(04-23-2013 04:11 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

But to say the Catholic Church doesn't have any blood on their hands is a baseless claim.


See I think the problem with statements like this is that it is really ambiguous. The ambiguity comes from the fact that like Christianity, Islam is a widespread religion that encompasses many different cultures and ethnicities. Here in the UK we've suffered more over the last few decades from terrorists who are Roman Catholic than we have from Islamic, so do you think people in the UK tar all Roman Catholics with being the most violent religion?

Erm no, we understand that this is a small ethnic notably Irish part of that religion which blew up bombs throughout our sovereign kingdom and that we can't attribute that same violence to the French, JFK or the Italians.

I'm sorry you and your family had to live through the thread of IRA terrorists, but honestly... those acts of terror were basically a small moment in time/history. More of an aberration than a major terrorist movement. To compare that movement to today's militant Islam is apples to oranges (to put it mildly). I mean, there were a swath of fundamentalist Christians bombing abortion clinics in the 80's and early 90's, but I doubt that abortion doctors/nurses drive to work in fear these days - not even 20 years removed from the bulk of the attacks. That shit passed (relatively) quickly. Sure there might be an isolated incident once every 10 years, but by and large there is no organized movement.

[megatron]

1. We should get out of their countries. Terrorist attacks will completely stop after we do this.

2.A lot of, although not the majority, of Muslims are animalistic douchebags. Our evil, murderous foreign policy has helped increase their numbers TENFOLD.

3. We should stop all foreign Aid, especially to Israel and Egypt.

[megatron]

(04-23-2013 01:30 AM)cycliss Wrote:  

Quote:

Tell me where I was factually wrong. The first Jew was Abraham, according to OT. He didn't kill anyone. Moses? he killed an Egyptian guard to escape from enslavement? Jesus? Killed no one. Was all about forgiveness.

The Crusades were perpetrated by the Catholic church. Many argue that they are an evil organization. Protestant sects and Orthodox Christians have done much less in comparison. Where in the Bible is the violence of the crusades justified? There isn't one verse about spreading Christianity with the sword. In fact, for the first 300 years after Christ's death, Christians were regularly being slaughtered for their faith.

Islam is a wild, violent religion. And the fact remains that Muhummad ordered the murder of thousands of people. He was a cruel, despotic military leader. Non-Muslims, according to the Quran, are to be treated with contempt and some instances, are allowed to be executed with impunity.

In the bible, God commands the Jews to commit genocide against the Canaanites. He specifically instructs them to exterminate all men, women, and children to make living space for his chosen people. He also drowns the Phaeroh's army in the Red Sea, massacres ~200,000 Assyrians by plague, slaughters the Midianites, Ai, Makkedah, Hazor, Hebron, Debir, Anab etc. The bible has its military warlords too like King David.

Anyone can twist these words to whatever they want it to mean because its all fairytale bullshit that never made sense to begin with. Blaming the religion on its own without taking into account actual history is pure ignorance.

The ancient Israelites were constantly under attack from neighboring tribes: Philistines, Moabites, Caaninites, ect. Most of their wars were for self-defense. Ancient Jews didn't go to other countries to colonize them and spread Judaism via violent means.

You haven't disproven anything I've said.

My point was that the first Jewish prophets, the first Christian Prophet and his Apostles were not violent people. The guy who started Islam? A bloodthirsty pirate, basically.

[bojangles]

(04-23-2013 09:20 AM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

I'm sorry you and your family had to live through the thread of IRA terrorists, but honestly... those acts of terror were basically a small moment in time/history. More of an aberration than a major terrorist movement. To compare that movement to today's militant Islam is apples to oranges (to put it mildly). I mean, there were a swath of fundamentalist Christians bombing abortion clinics in the 80's and early 90's, but I doubt that abortion doctors/nurses drive to work in fear these days - not even 20 years removed from the bulk of the attacks. That shit passed (relatively) quickly. Sure there might be an isolated incident once every 10 years, but by and large there is no organized movement.

Must rank highly on RVF's most idiotic posts. 3600 people dying in 30 continuous years of terrorist attacks may seem an aberration to you, but that's the though process of idiots, especially your last line, which ironically corresponds to the islamic attacks on american soil. From 1993 to 2001 to 2013..

[bojangles]

(04-23-2013 10:01 AM)megatron Wrote:  

(04-23-2013 01:30 AM)cycliss Wrote:  

Quote:

Tell me where I was factually wrong. The first Jew was Abraham, according to OT. He didn't kill anyone. Moses? he killed an Egyptian guard to escape from enslavement? Jesus? Killed no one. Was all about forgiveness.

The Crusades were perpetrated by the Catholic church. Many argue that they are an evil organization. Protestant sects and Orthodox Christians have done much less in comparison. Where in the Bible is the violence of the crusades justified? There isn't one verse about spreading Christianity with the sword. In fact, for the first 300 years after Christ's death, Christians were regularly being slaughtered for their faith.

Islam is a wild, violent religion. And the fact remains that Muhummad ordered the murder of thousands of people. He was a cruel, despotic military leader. Non-Muslims, according to the Quran, are to be treated with contempt and some instances, are allowed to be executed with impunity.

In the bible, God commands the Jews to commit genocide against the Canaanites. He specifically instructs them to exterminate all men, women, and children to make living space for his chosen people. He also drowns the Phaeroh's army in the Red Sea, massacres ~200,000 Assyrians by plague, slaughters the Midianites, Ai, Makkedah, Hazor, Hebron, Debir, Anab etc. The bible has its military warlords too like King David.

Anyone can twist these words to whatever they want it to mean because its all fairytale bullshit that never made sense to begin with. Blaming the religion on its own without taking into account actual history is pure ignorance.

The ancient Israelites were constantly under attack from neighboring tribes: Philistines, Moabites, Caaninites, ect. Most of their wars were for self-defense. Ancient Jews didn't go to other countries to colonize them and spread Judaism via violent means.

You haven't disproven anything I've said.

My point was that the first Jewish prophets, the first Christian Prophet and his Apostles were not violent people. The guy who started Islam? A bloodthirsty pirate, basically.

This is true, but they werent able to do any of that because they weren't skilled enough in warfare and weaponry, those around them were much more advanced.

Funny thing is though Abraham was willing to kill his son in the name of God. Jews generally throughout history have never done anything close to killing in the name of their lord though.

[megatron]

Quote:

The ancient Israelites were constantly under attack from neighboring tribes: Philistines, Moabites, Caaninites, ect. Most of their wars were for self-defense. Ancient Jews didn't go to other countries to colonize them and spread Judaism via violent means.

You haven't disproven anything I've said.

My point was that the first Jewish prophets, the first Christian Prophet and his Apostles were not violent people. The guy who started Islam? A bloodthirsty pirate, basically.

Quote:

This is true, but they werent able to do any of that because they weren't skilled enough in warfare and weaponry, those around them were much more advanced.

Funny thing is though Abraham was willing to kill his son in the name of God. Jews generally throughout history have never done anything close to killing in the name of their lord though.

Another cute fact about Mohammed is that he was illiterate. He dictated the Koran, mostly cribbed from the Old Testament, to scribes.

[bojangles]

(04-23-2013 10:11 AM)megatron Wrote:  

Quote:

The ancient Israelites were constantly under attack from neighboring tribes: Philistines, Moabites, Caaninites, ect. Most of their wars were for self-defense. Ancient Jews didn't go to other countries to colonize them and spread Judaism via violent means.

You haven't disproven anything I've said.

My point was that the first Jewish prophets, the first Christian Prophet and his Apostles were not violent people. The guy who started Islam? A bloodthirsty pirate, basically.

Quote:

This is true, but they werent able to do any of that because they weren't skilled enough in warfare and weaponry, those around them were much more advanced.

Funny thing is though Abraham was willing to kill his son in the name of God. Jews generally throughout history have never done anything close to killing in the name of their lord though.

Another cute fact about Mohammed is that he was illiterate. He dictated the Koran, mostly cribbed from the Old Testament, to scribes.

Did he not write the Koran in the desert? A friend of mine once said, if any guy goes in the desert for 40 days supposedly without food and water, he'd either be dead or come back rabbling bullshit and talking like a nutcase

[kerouac]

The interesting thing about islam is that while some people who are affiliated with it go crazy and do some nasty shit around the world, others, like Mike Tyson, calm down and start reflecting on life a little more.

I guess it all comes down to how an individual approaches the religion.

You can see Hassidic Jews spitting on non Jews or you can see Christians going to military funerals with slogans like "God Hates Fags". Every major religion has its dark side. The problem might be that people are stupid.

[megatron]

(04-23-2013 10:14 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(04-23-2013 10:11 AM)megatron Wrote:  

Quote:

The ancient Israelites were constantly under attack from neighboring tribes: Philistines, Moabites, Caaninites, ect. Most of their wars were for self-defense. Ancient Jews didn't go to other countries to colonize them and spread Judaism via violent means.

You haven't disproven anything I've said.

My point was that the first Jewish prophets, the first Christian Prophet and his Apostles were not violent people. The guy who started Islam? A bloodthirsty pirate, basically.

Quote:

This is true, but they werent able to do any of that because they weren't skilled enough in warfare and weaponry, those around them were much more advanced.

Funny thing is though Abraham was willing to kill his son in the name of God. Jews generally throughout history have never done anything close to killing in the name of their lord though.

Another cute fact about Mohammed is that he was illiterate. He dictated the Koran, mostly cribbed from the Old Testament, to scribes.

Did he not write the Koran in the desert? A friend of mine once said, if any guy goes in the desert for 40 days supposedly without food and water, he'd either be dead or come back rabbling bullshit and talking like a nutcase

Heh. Not exactly sure, but it's very likely.