[iknowexactly]

I'm here and loving it. Best weather in the whole world in Norcal for my taste, bros.
I like dry warmth, if you like the tropics maybe not so good.

And we love our pinko politics too. Such douchbags we are.

However, guess which state has MORE THAN TWICE as many patents as any other state?
The welfare queens and pinkos in NY are doing pretty good too with patents also, democrats are just a LOT smarter. Sorry.

And we produce about THREE TIMES the number of patents as TEXAS har har. Maybe whatever Bush has was contagious.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/ido/...st_utl.htm

We are busy little fuckers, and smart too. Also, seriously, in my career field I get paid
almost twice what I would in other states and taxes don't outweigh that.

We are one-sixth the whole economy of the country. We like giving you our tax dollars, because
we are pinko faggots. (google red state subsidy)

You can't fight the future, and we are it, if anywhere in America is.

Genentech, Intel, high-speed rail, world leaders in pollution control ( yeah getting your car smogged sux) , Hollywood, Lake Tahoe, and we're swarmed –swarmed I tell you– with horny Asian chix.


Yeeee hah... Ride 'em cowboy!!!!

[Quintus Flaminius]

Let's hear from the fiscal conservative side of the coin.

[Matt Forney]

If California is so wonderful, why is everyone stampeding to get the hell out?



California's been hemorrhaging people---particularly the middle class---since the late 90's. Coincidentally, that was when the state was finally taken over by idiots like Gray Davis who couldn't balance a checkbook if you walked them through it step-by-step.

Spare me the crap about GDP. California's GDP is artificially sustained by Silicon Valley and Hollywood, neither of which have any relevance to average, middle-class guys. If Mark Zuckerberg were to relocate to Ethiopia, its GDP would soar meaninglessly. The most relevant economic statistics for average people are a) unemployment and b) taxes. And on those metrics, California is eternally duking it out with my native New York for worst in the nation. North Dakota is the state with the lowest unemployment and the lowest overall tax burden.

I particularly love the liberal argument that the high taxes in blue states correlate to any kind of improved quality of life:

• Better police protection? Williston, North Dakota has a lower per capita crime rate than any city in New York or California.
• Higher wages? No job in Williston pays less than $12/hour, and the average is more like $15-16.
• Better roads? I-94 and the CanAm have fewer potholes than the Thruway or I-81, and they don't even need any tolls to maintain them. (Speaking of which, that's another way blue states screw over the average working guy: road tolls. Decades ago, Albany said that the Thruway would only be tolled as long as necessary to pay off the cost of building it. When that date passed, they went "Psych!" and jacked the tolls up even higher. It must be nice, being a politician in a state with an electorate incapable of doing basic math.)
• More freedom? To do what? Get gay married and fake your way into a medical marijuana script? What if I want to own an AR-15? Oh whoops, can't do that in New York anymore, 'cause guns are bad, mmmmkay?
• Superior culture? I suppose they have a point there, but who cares about microbreweries and music shows when you can't even afford to enjoy them (because you either don't have a job or half your paycheck is being confiscated)?
  

Bottom line: California isn't going to be the new Brazil. Brazil has hotter women and no open container laws. California's going to be the new Haiti.

As for myself, I'm planning on GTFOing out of the U.S., but I'm moving my assets to South Dakota (tax burden roughly equal to North Dakota, but has nicer scenery) before I do. I'll be damned if the crooks in Albany get another dime out of me.

[bacon]

Go to 45 second mark to skip comments by the unbearable rachel maddow when liberal comedian bill maher talks about leaving california.

[LowerCaseG]

(04-02-2013 08:04 PM)kerouac Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 06:54 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

This is the Government bls unemployment list:

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

California is in a 3 way tie for last in the United States

California and Nevada had high growth (prior to the "great recession"), thus an influx of people from other areas coming to these states for work. People came here for work, and when the work was gone... well, now they're unemployed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP

California still has the highest GDP of any state in the US (and 13th per capita), which one might take to suggest that it still has one of the most active economies in the US.

Quote:

WOW, welfare they DESTROY everyone by a lot!

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco_wel...recipients

WRONG list. By CASELOAD (are you that quick with your gun?)
Of course California is going to have one of the highest caseloads of welfare! California is the largest state by population! You ought to be looking at the per-capita list:

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco_wel...per-capita

And DC tops that list, big time. 7.8 out of every 100! California is at 3/100.

It's intereting that DC has both the highest per capita income, and per capita welfare usage

[EisenBarde]

It's hard to understand when you've never lived here. But it's almost like there are multiple states in this state. It is seriously more segregated than the 50's south.

Krugman, as usual, views things from a paradigm I am diametrically opposed to. And I personally think he doesn't have a damn clue about the political and economic situation in California because he doesn't even understand its people.

[iknowexactly]

(04-02-2013 10:05 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

If California is so wonderful, why is everyone stampeding to get the hell out?

California's been hemorrhaging people---particularly the middle class---since the late 90's. Coincidentally, that was when the state was finally taken over by idiots like Gray Davis who couldn't balance a checkbook if you walked them through it step-by-step.

Spare me the crap about GDP. California's GDP is artificially sustained by Silicon Valley and Hollywood, neither of which have any relevance to average, middle-class guys.

Well lookie here, you're wrong about the skew in California income--- we're 10th of 50 in median income, which you of course know from your stats class helps to reduce the skewing factor from extremes of Zuckerbergs and Bloods who are serving stones off the books.

Yes housing is more expensive, so if your tastes run to McMansions you are in trouble. But I paid $600 for a studio while making 100k+ so you can save a lot if you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S...old_income

I think 8 or 9 of the states ABOVE our income in the land of fruits and nuts are f'ing BLUE STATES.

Dammit, will someone get reality to conform to what I would like it to be!!???

WELFARE KILLS ECONOMIES OK? MILTON FRIEDMAN SAID SO FROM HIS HOME IN CONNECTICUT. Well, except those top 10 states income. "It's complicated."

Maybe you have a point in that if you are average, you will not stand out here. This place is much more favorable if you are exceptional.

The fairly bright guy who stands out a bit in Oklahoma might seem mediocre here.

If Gray Davis was an idiot as you say, I'm sure you're judging from your superior intellectual qualifications, right?

Gray Davis wasn't an idiot from what I could glean--from Wikipedia

Davis holds a B.A. in history from Stanford University and a J.D. from Columbia Law School. He was awarded a Bronze Star for his service as a Captain in the Vietnam War.

There's definitely some crap here in Cali. But which is more important, how many people on welfare, or how many patents?

Half full or empty? The cuckoo clock or the renaissance?

And we have grapes here. Lots of them. Care for some sour ones?

Waiting to hear your qualifications for judging Davis's (and the rest of us fruitcakes') intellect. Shall we expect resounding silence?

Do you just feeeeeeel you're right?

" He has a Nobel prize for some silly complicated math stuff but I just feeeeeeel I'm right..."

[EisenBarde]

Davis made some pretty bad moves when it came to energy policy and it cost him his seat as governor. Smart or not, he got burned and he got burned bad when it came to power deals.

Funny enough, a few of these bad moves involved Enron, who at one point briefly had Krugman on the payroll for about 37k.

[Emancipator]

The real reason for California's recent uptrend?
Shale

[Lemmo]

(04-02-2013 10:05 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

If California is so wonderful, why is everyone stampeding to get the hell out?



California's been hemorrhaging people---particularly the middle class---since the late 90's. Coincidentally, that was when the state was finally taken over by idiots like Gray Davis who couldn't balance a checkbook if you walked them through it step-by-step.

Yeah, CA makes sense if you are in or seeking a highly paid job in media or tech since by historical accident you have centers in LA and the Bay Area (although the tech gets built and the films get produced elsewhere). So it it is mainly just for 3rd world migrants and people who are rich enough to insulate themselves from the dysfunction in the majority of the state who continue to live there. Middle class people can't afford segregated neighborhoods or decent private schools so they are going elsewhere. CA cities offer the worst of both possible worlds - a civilized core that is inbred, parochial and aging and then the balance of the city, the majority, is a large slum.

Given people's love of travel, I'm surprised there is anyone on here insulated enough to defend CA cities. Try London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. These are cities that can actually claim to provide cultural and lifestyle benefits that you can't get out in the sticks. If you are in the US, you should either be in the countryside in a place with nice scenery and outdoor activities or in a small city where you can enjoy the low cost of living.

[durangotang]

(04-03-2013 01:31 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 10:05 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

If California is so wonderful, why is everyone stampeding to get the hell out?



California's been hemorrhaging people---particularly the middle class---since the late 90's. Coincidentally, that was when the state was finally taken over by idiots like Gray Davis who couldn't balance a checkbook if you walked them through it step-by-step.

Spare me the crap about GDP. California's GDP is artificially sustained by Silicon Valley and Hollywood, neither of which have any relevance to average, middle-class guys.

Maybe you have a point, if you are average, you will not stand out here. This place is much more favorable if you are exceptional.

The fairly bright guy who stands out a bit in Oklahoma is really mediocre here.

If Gray Davis was an idiot as you say, I'm sure you're judging from superior intellectual qualifications, right?

Gray Davis wasn't an idiot from what I could glean--from Wikipedia

Davis holds a B.A. in history from Stanford University and a J.D. from Columbia Law School. He was awarded a Bronze Star for his service as a Captain in the Vietnam War.

There's definitely some crap here in Cali. But which is more important, how many people on welfare, or how many patents?

Half full or empty?

And we have grapes here. Lots of them. Care for some sour ones?

Waiting to hear your qualifications for judging Davis's intellect. Shall we expect resounding silence?

IKE, how many patents have you filed for in CA? Are you contributing? Or are you working at a University somewhere expousing Marxist views?

As for Grey Davis getting a B.A. from Stanford and a J.D. Columbia, what makes Californias economy great are Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg - both college dropouts. Don't forget president Obama is a "constitutional scholar" with a J.D. from Harvard who sees no problem signing the NDAA or the Patriot Act.

Let me guess, you have a PHD, because you are Piling it High and Deep right now.

[evilhei]

Heres Paul Krugman vs Estonian president
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reli..._blog.html

[iknowexactly]

(04-03-2013 01:55 AM)durangotang Wrote:  

Let me guess, you have a PHD, because you are Pilling it High and Deep right now.

No patents, published in applied research.

Ummm....equating graduate degrees with prevarication counts as an argument...?

[Lemmo]

(04-03-2013 01:55 AM)durangotang Wrote:  

IKE, how many patents have you filed for in CA? Are you contributing? Or are you working at a University somewhere expousing Marxist views?

As for Grey Davis getting a B.A. from Stanford and a J.D. Columbia, what makes Californias economy great are Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg - both college dropouts. Don't forget president Obama is a "constitutional scholar" with a J.D. from Harvard who sees no problem signing the NDAA or the Patriot Act.

Let me guess, you have a PHD, because you are Pilling it High and Deep right now.

C'mon, the guy went to a brand name law school! There are only a few hundred thousand of them walking around so no one must ever disagree with them. Any disagreement between elite law grads will be determined by a third party assessment of undergrad and other graduate credentials.

And the LA mayor went to the illustrious People's College of Law so these impressively credentialed people are wisely leading CA at all levels.

[Lemmo]

(04-03-2013 02:02 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(04-03-2013 01:55 AM)durangotang Wrote:  

Let me guess, you have a PHD, because you are Pilling it High and Deep right now.

No patents, published in applied research.

Ummm....equating graduate degrees with prevarication counts as an argument...?

Ummm equating graduate degrees with political competence counts as an argument...?

[Drazen]

the real problem in California is the politicians are super corrupt and are taking kickbacks everywhere. tax the hell out of everyone, let everything fall to hell and then steal the money and run. eventually it'll all come crashing down in an absolutely spectacular fashion.

there's basically no avoiding it, it'll go to hell. everyone's just here for the free ride in a nice climate until the apocalypse comes.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(04-03-2013 01:58 AM)evilhei Wrote:  

Heres Paul Krugman vs Estonian president
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reli..._blog.html

The fact that the president of Estonia was outraged doesn't change the truth. It's like a feminist going into a frenzy upon hearing that she wasted her best child-bearing years.

[A War You Cannot Win]

After reading the links in this thread, I'm moving out of CA as soon as possible.

[Lemmo]

(04-03-2013 02:22 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(04-03-2013 01:58 AM)evilhei Wrote:  

Heres Paul Krugman vs Estonian president
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reli..._blog.html

The fact that the president of Estonia was outraged doesn't change the truth. It's like a feminist going into a frenzy upon hearing that she wasted her best child-bearing years.

What's the truth in this case? Estonia has one of the highest GDP growth rates in Europe and achieved it without crippling debt or excessive reliance on artificial stimulus. To continue your analogy, Krugman is like the the feminist arguing that middle-aged and fat women are sexy. Observed reality has to be bent to philosophy.

[Drazen]

(04-03-2013 02:29 AM)A War You Cannot Win Wrote:  

After reading the links in this thread, I'm moving out of CA as soon as possible.

nah, just wait until it totally collapses, then move. just have your interest diversified.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(04-03-2013 02:34 AM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(04-03-2013 02:22 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(04-03-2013 01:58 AM)evilhei Wrote:  

Heres Paul Krugman vs Estonian president
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reli..._blog.html

The fact that the president of Estonia was outraged doesn't change the truth. It's like a feminist going into a frenzy upon hearing that she wasted her best child-bearing years.

What's the truth in this case? Estonia has one of the highest GDP growth rates in Europe and achieved it without crippling debt or excessive reliance on artificial stimulus. To continue your analogy, Krugman is like the the feminist arguing that middle-aged and fat women are sexy. Observed reality has to be bent to philosophy.

Are we talking about the same Estonia here?



High GDP growth is a convenient smokescreen for obscuring that unfashionable chasm between 2007 and 2009.

Compare with the "heavily-hit by crisis" USA:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_GDP_per_capita.PNG

Any country can have rapid GDP growth after taking a gigantic plunge, because you are starting from a very low base. Just take a look at most countries devastated by wars. When you have lost everything, of course you are going to be growing back quickly. This is the case with Estonia. Would you call India a role model because it has fast growth no matter how much is manages to fuck up?

[Lemmo]

(04-03-2013 02:44 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Any country can have rapid GDP growth after taking a gigantic plunge, because you are starting from a very low base. Just take a look at most countries devastated by wars. When you have lost everything, of course you are going to be growing back quickly. This is the case with Estonia. Would you call India a role model because it has fast growth no matter how much is manages to fuck up?

I don't understand the argument since every economy tanked during this period (the US graph you linked to had the same shape). The whole argument between Krugman and Estonia centers around how countries went about creating and maintaining the upswing. The steep fall during this period wasn't unique to Estonia at all.

[Hyperion]

(04-03-2013 01:31 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(04-02-2013 10:05 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

If California is so wonderful, why is everyone stampeding to get the hell out?

California's been hemorrhaging people---particularly the middle class---since the late 90's. Coincidentally, that was when the state was finally taken over by idiots like Gray Davis who couldn't balance a checkbook if you walked them through it step-by-step.

Spare me the crap about GDP. California's GDP is artificially sustained by Silicon Valley and Hollywood, neither of which have any relevance to average, middle-class guys.

Well lookie here, you're wrong about the skew in California income--- we're 10th of 50 in median income, which you of course know from your stats class helps to reduce the skewing factor from extremes of Zuckerbergs and Bloods who are serving stones off the books.

Yes housing is more expensive, so if your tastes run to McMansions you are in trouble. But I paid $600 for a studio while making 100k+ so you can save a lot if you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S...old_income

I think 8 or 9 of the states ABOVE our income in the land of fruits and nuts are f'ing BLUE STATES.

Dammit, will someone get reality to conform to what I would like it to be!!???

WELFARE KILLS ECONOMIES OK? MILTON FRIEDMAN SAID SO FROM HIS HOME IN CONNECTICUT. Well, except those top 10 states income. "It's complicated."

Maybe you have a point in that if you are average, you will not stand out here. This place is much more favorable if you are exceptional.

The fairly bright guy who stands out a bit in Oklahoma might seem mediocre here.

If Gray Davis was an idiot as you say, I'm sure you're judging from your superior intellectual qualifications, right?

Gray Davis wasn't an idiot from what I could glean--from Wikipedia

Davis holds a B.A. in history from Stanford University and a J.D. from Columbia Law School. He was awarded a Bronze Star for his service as a Captain in the Vietnam War.

There's definitely some crap here in Cali. But which is more important, how many people on welfare, or how many patents?

Half full or empty? The cuckoo clock or the renaissance?

And we have grapes here. Lots of them. Care for some sour ones?

Waiting to hear your qualifications for judging Davis's (and the rest of us fruitcakes') intellect. Shall we expect resounding silence?

Do you just feeeeeeel you're right?

" He has a Nobel prize for some silly complicated math stuff but I just feeeeeeel I'm right..."

The power of the dollar varies quite greatly based on cost of living. That's why per capita income is a terrible statistic. Based on purchasing power Texas is wealthier than California.

California has basically dug their own grave by making it to where only the very wealthy can afford to live there and the rest will be poor or government workers. It's not a good model and people are voting with their feet.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(04-03-2013 01:22 AM)EisenBarde Wrote:  

It's hard to understand when you've never lived here. But it's almost like there are multiple states in this state. It is seriously more segregated than the 50's south.

Krugman, as usual, views things from a paradigm I am diametrically opposed to. And I personally think he doesn't have a damn clue about the political and economic situation in California because he doesn't even understand its people.

I know what you mean about California being multiple states within one.

As for segregation, it depends where in the state you're talking about. If Socal, then for sure. But the Bay Area is probably the most integrated and racially harmonious area of the country that I've ever been to.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(04-02-2013 10:05 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

If California is so wonderful, why is everyone stampeding to get the hell out?



California's been hemorrhaging people---particularly the middle class---since the late 90's. Coincidentally, that was when the state was finally taken over by idiots like Gray Davis who couldn't balance a checkbook if you walked them through it step-by-step.

Spare me the crap about GDP. California's GDP is artificially sustained by Silicon Valley and Hollywood, neither of which have any relevance to average, middle-class guys. If Mark Zuckerberg were to relocate to Ethiopia, its GDP would soar meaninglessly. The most relevant economic statistics for average people are a) unemployment and b) taxes. And on those metrics, California is eternally duking it out with my native New York for worst in the nation. North Dakota is the state with the lowest unemployment and the lowest overall tax burden.

I particularly love the liberal argument that the high taxes in blue states correlate to any kind of improved quality of life:

• Better police protection? Williston, North Dakota has a lower per capita crime rate than any city in New York or California.
• Higher wages? No job in Williston pays less than $12/hour, and the average is more like $15-16.
• Better roads? I-94 and the CanAm have fewer potholes than the Thruway or I-81, and they don't even need any tolls to maintain them. (Speaking of which, that's another way blue states screw over the average working guy: road tolls. Decades ago, Albany said that the Thruway would only be tolled as long as necessary to pay off the cost of building it. When that date passed, they went "Psych!" and jacked the tolls up even higher. It must be nice, being a politician in a state with an electorate incapable of doing basic math.)
• More freedom? To do what? Get gay married and fake your way into a medical marijuana script? What if I want to own an AR-15? Oh whoops, can't do that in New York anymore, 'cause guns are bad, mmmmkay?
• Superior culture? I suppose they have a point there, but who cares about microbreweries and music shows when you can't even afford to enjoy them (because you either don't have a job or half your paycheck is being confiscated)?
  

Bottom line: California isn't going to be the new Brazil. Brazil has hotter women and no open container laws. California's going to be the new Haiti.

As for myself, I'm planning on GTFOing out of the U.S., but I'm moving my assets to South Dakota (tax burden roughly equal to North Dakota, but has nicer scenery) before I do. I'll be damned if the crooks in Albany get another dime out of me.

Spot-on analysis. When it comes to the numbers, CA doesn't make sense. But still, it's a special place and blows all other US states out the water in terms of culture, vibe and overall nice shit. For the average person though, living there is not the move.