[Kentucky]

Europe will be a VERY different place in as little as thirty years. While white non-Muslim women are having no children, the few that do are having only one. The exception is the white underclass, which is having huge families that live on welfare

Soon the feminists will panic

God help the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-...amily.html


In Britain, another factor influencing the trend is women marrying and starting families later. “Those who wait until they are older often face infertility or secondary infertility,” says Susan Newman, a social psychologist. “Age limits for parents can be a significant impediment to adopting a second child, too. And adoption costs and infertility treatments are expensive.”

It is also true that while IVF used to be a ticket to twins (or more), IVF doctors increasingly offer a single embryo transfer as being safer to mother and child, and just as successful.

Only two groups buck the trend: those curious bedfellows the very rich and the very poor. On one side are the “superwomen” – the bankers and lawyers whose salaries enable them to pay for the childcare to support multiple children; on the other are those families who, in the words of Iain Duncan Smith, fail to “cut their cloth”, and continue to have children they can’t afford to support without the help of the state.

[Starke]

(03-27-2013 04:48 AM)Kentucky Wrote:  

Europe will be a VERY different place in as little as thirty years. While white non-Muslim women are having no children, the few that do are having only one. The exception is the white underclass, which is having huge families that live on welfare

Soon the feminists will panic

God help the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-...amily.html


In Britain, another factor influencing the trend is women marrying and starting families later. “Those who wait until they are older often face infertility or secondary infertility,” says Susan Newman, a social psychologist. “Age limits for parents can be a significant impediment to adopting a second child, too. And adoption costs and infertility treatments are expensive.”

It is also true that while IVF used to be a ticket to twins (or more), IVF doctors increasingly offer a single embryo transfer as being safer to mother and child, and just as successful.

Only two groups buck the trend: those curious bedfellows the very rich and the very poor. On one side are the “superwomen” – the bankers and lawyers whose salaries enable them to pay for the childcare to support multiple children; on the other are those families who, in the words of Iain Duncan Smith, fail to “cut their cloth”, and continue to have children they can’t afford to support without the help of the state.

It's all very troubling.
The fertility rates put out by Western governments are massively distorted 3rd-world migrants whose women are tantamount to baby factories.

One thing that makes you feel better about the UK is a trip to Sweden, where this trend is accelerating at a far more aggressive rate, thanks to an ultra-liberal and generous refugee policy, combined with the unanimity of militant feminism among the resident female population.

Long term, it's hard not to say that the future of Europeans lies east of the Oder–Neisse line.

[Andy_B]

I'd take Islam over what some Western countries have now. The political correctness in place in much of Scandanavia is worse than Islam in my view.

[Asaxon]

Another thread about " white people" after your " typical selfish whites are evil for sending old people to homes" troll thread?

[kosko]

Its not Feminism.

The Elites whom funded Feminism wanted this all along.

Population shrinks and from the new demographic structures tensions are created between the older Europeans and the newcomers. When European nations out of desperation roll back inclusion based polices in a attempt to scale back or reverse "multiculturalism" you will see conflicts emerge internally almost overnight. Europe never went all in with opening the Door for different cultures, they did it half-assed in comparison to hear and because of this they will see way more hostilities regarding race in the future. For as ratchet and hostile America is with Race its not burning down its Ghettos like they are doing in Suburban Paris, and London - the dynamics there are more dire than in America.

Feminism is just a tool in the kit, its not a end goal but a means to an end.

[Kentucky]

(03-27-2013 05:36 AM)Asaxon Wrote:  

Another thread about " white people" after your " typical selfish whites are evil for sending old people to homes" troll thread?

Well selfishness is the problem in both cases. Not willing to sacrifice career to make babies or lifestyle to look after old people.

[Kentucky]

(03-27-2013 05:43 AM)kosko Wrote:  

Its not Feminism.

The Elites whom funded Feminism wanted this all along.

Population shrinks and from the new demographic structures tensions are created between the older Europeans and the newcomers. When European nations out of desperation roll back inclusion based polices in a attempt to scale back or reverse "multiculturalism" you will see conflicts emerge internally almost overnight. Europe never went all in with opening the Door for different cultures, they did it half-assed in comparison to hear and because of this they will see way more hostilities regarding race in the future. For as ratchet and hostile America is with Race its not burning down its Ghettos like they are doing in Suburban Paris, and London - the dynamics there are more dire than in America.

Feminism is just a tool in the kit, its not a end goal but a means to an end.

Yeah, though riots in London was not mainly to do with race. They started out in a black area of London, but then spread across the UK to many towns and cities where ethnic minority population was close to zero.

Also remember France and UK are very mixed between blacks and whites due to empire in colonial times.

[Kentucky]

(03-27-2013 05:30 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

I'd take Islam over what some Western countries have now. The political correctness in place in much of Scandanavia is worse than Islam in my view.

I'm not sure. Life for Christians and Jews, Hindus, etc seems pretty tough under Islam

Seems a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face

[Teedub]

(03-27-2013 05:30 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

I'd take Islam over what some Western countries have now. The political correctness in place in much of Scandanavia is worse than Islam in my view.

I'd live in Sweden over some crazy theocratic place like Saudi in a heartbeat. Islam is the 'worst' of all the main religions, I think partially due to it's age. It is relatively new compared to Judaism and Christianity.

I've read a fair few books about it recently, and from what I gleaned, it will either self destruct and/or lose it's potency in the coming decades. I highly recommend this book.

[Idlenations]

Another interesting book on the subject.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(03-27-2013 06:25 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 05:30 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

I'd take Islam over what some Western countries have now. The political correctness in place in much of Scandanavia is worse than Islam in my view.

I'd live in Sweden over some crazy theocratic place like Saudi in a heartbeat. Islam is the 'worst' of all the main religions, I think partially due to it's age. It is relatively new compared to Judaism and Christianity.

I've read a fair few books about it recently, and from what I gleaned, it will either self destruct and/or lose it's potency in the coming decades. I highly recommend this book.

Ah.

But would you live in Indonesia, the most populous Muslim country in the world? How about Malaysia? Turkey? Not all of Islam, or even half of it, consists of bloodthirsty fanatics.

[LEMONed IScream]

There is quite a bit of a scare in Europe because of Islamophobia... Not all countries are affected by it obviously, but the ones that aren't affected by it, like Portugal, also have low fertility rates...

However these things are unpredictable on the long run because anything can happen! Hell, even a war!
Statistics are like mini skirts, they give you nice ideas but they leave out the main part .

I also agree that this is a part of the plan to reduce population, not that we are one of the most populated areas in the world, but it is all about consumption! You think they care much about dirt poor places in Africa? Nature will take care of those, unfortunately..

[Kentucky]

(03-27-2013 06:49 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 06:25 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 05:30 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

I'd take Islam over what some Western countries have now. The political correctness in place in much of Scandanavia is worse than Islam in my view.

I'd live in Sweden over some crazy theocratic place like Saudi in a heartbeat. Islam is the 'worst' of all the main religions, I think partially due to it's age. It is relatively new compared to Judaism and Christianity.

I've read a fair few books about it recently, and from what I gleaned, it will either self destruct and/or lose it's potency in the coming decades. I highly recommend this book.

Ah.

But would you live in Indonesia, the most populous Muslim country in the world? How about Malaysia? Turkey? Not all of Islam, or even half of it, consists of bloodthirsty fanatics.

As a Muslim?

Or as a Buddhist/Christian/Jew?

Equal treatment for religious minorities is not a universal concept.

Look at Malaysias stupid rules towards its Chinese-descent population

[j r]

There are no grand plans. As people get richer, they tend to have fewer children. That's the whole story.

[Teedub]

(03-27-2013 06:53 AM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  

There is quite a bit of a scare in Europe because of Islamophobia...

Sorry dude, but I absolutely hate that word. It was a word invented by Islamists to stifle debate. Furthermore, a phobia is an irrational fear.

To be wary of a proportion of your population who openly despise your culture and way of life isn't an irrational fear, it's common sense.

[Branimir]

The problem are not the immigrants per se, it's the people and politics who let them do such things. The political correctness.

If you raise a kid and let it do everything to you it wants, like we see nowadays is often the case, of course the kid won't have any respect to you and grow up as an spoiled brat that demands to be treated extra special.

In every place this developement is at a different stage, and I'd say Sweden is in the by far the worst situation, I just can't believe it myself what they're doing to themselves. Norway is also close by. Now what happens , you'll have some crazy guy make a shooting spree on an island. Although he is a maniac , he's a symptome of something even more wrong, the disease which lead him to do it. And I'm sad to believe that this symptome is just a glympse of what could possibly happen, if this disease won't be treated.

Luckily in Germany this false political correctness yet hasn't infected the general population that much, though of course the media tries to feed liberalist bullshit to the german people.
But this doesn't help if the goverment doesn't act to it's people wishes.

I don't care if some Middle Eastern country is going full islamistic and has stupid laws, as long as they keep to themselves I'm fine with it.
... but yea, just let us continue our wars in the Middle East and have even more refugees fleeing to europe.
It's really like our governments are being led by a invisible hand, which just wants that shit escalates by bringing cultures up against each others. But I'm just too confused by all this. It's just a mess nowadays and I can't see through it to identify it what direction we're being pulled.

[Roosh]

Most second-tier cities in Eastern European are declining. Much of it is due to emigration. When a poor country gets admitted to the EU, people leave to richer countries for opportunity.

[ElJefe]

(03-27-2013 06:58 AM)j r Wrote:  

There are no grand plans. As people get richer, they tend to have fewer children. That's the whole story.

I've been taught this simplication as well.

Not true.

Both Europeans and Americans were making plenty of babies in the 50's and 60's.

What's changed is how women define utility.

My hypothesis is that women define utility to a larger extent based on social norms. If the social norm for a woman is to seek a career (and motherhood), I expect most women will seek to achieve this. That it's basically unachievable except at great cost in taxes (as in Scandinavia, where birthrates are relatively high), is a rather spectacular lie - I don't understand how a lie so great can perpetuate for so long. Oh well.

If the social norm for women is to find a husband, settle, and raise children, they'll focus on that. In Spain and Italy, this is largely the case. Women work hard in their 20's and early 30's so that they can become stay-at-home moms for the one child they manage to have. The reason they must work is high costs of living for middle-class lifestyles.

Middle-class lifestyle is expensive, I imagine, because children are expensive (high consumption expectations) and housing is expensive (protective housing markets).

This can't possibly be all the explanation, but it's better than just "richer people breed less" which fails to account for a lot of uncontrolled variables.

(03-27-2013 07:21 AM)Branimir Wrote:  

The problem are not the immigrants per se, it's the people and politics who let them do such things. The political correctness.

If you raise a kid and let it do everything to you it wants, like we see nowadays is often the case, of course the kid won't have any respect to you and grow up as an spoiled brat that demands to be treated extra special.

In every place this developement is at a different stage, and I'd say Sweden is in the by far the worst situation, I just can't believe it myself what they're doing to themselves. Norway is also close by. Now what happens , you'll have some crazy guy make a shooting spree on an island. Although he is a maniac , he's a symptome of something even more wrong, the disease which lead him to do it. And I'm sad to believe that this symptome is just a glympse of what could possibly happen, if this disease won't be treated.

Luckily in Germany this false political correctness yet hasn't infected the general population that much, though of course the media tries to feed liberalist bullshit to the german people.
But this doesn't help if the goverment doesn't act to it's people wishes.

I don't care if some Middle Eastern country is going full islamistic and has stupid laws, as long as they keep to themselves I'm fine with it.
... but yea, just let us continue our wars in the Middle East and have even more refugees fleeing to europe.
It's really like our governments are being led by a invisible hand, which just wants that shit escalates by bringing cultures up against each others. But I'm just too confused by all this. It's just a mess nowadays and I can't see through it to identify it what direction we're being pulled.

There is a progressivist agenda that also happens to hate Western civilization (so-called Oikophobia). There's plenty of muslim culture out there, but for some reason we have to destroy European cities with degenerative amounts of Anatolian, Beduin and Pashtun dyslexics. Add to this their primitive culture and you have a truly savage recipe for societal decay.

It's rather difficult to perceive the rationality in all this, because when you consider it from a purely cost-benefit perspective, it's absolutely insane.

European politicians and progressive intellectuals are enablers, for sure - and I think it has to do with the fact most of them were Trotskyites in the 70's, throwing rocks at police, hating on America and Israel, and so on and so forth.

But it has a lot to do with the primitive nature of non-European cultures. Except Chinese and East Asians usually manage to do well, again because their culture is far more advanced.

(03-27-2013 07:30 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Most second-tier cities in Eastern European are declining. Much of it is due to emigration. When a poor country gets admitted to the EU, people leave to richer countries for opportunity.

Eastern European partriotism and national pride is the West's best hope.

And from what I'm hearing from Britain, Cameron has taken the first nibbles of the red-pill. Which is hard to believe, but we can hope.

[Deluge]

I don't think feminism is the culprit. Southern and Eastern Europe (which are supposed to be the least feminist parts of Europe) plus Germany have much lower fertility then Western and Northern Europe.

[bojangles]

Islam's problem is that it's various sects are completely different now than they were between the years 700-1100AD, this is purely down to control of the populace and from the result of Mongol invasions. That kind of islam will never return unless the majority of islamic nations are under one figurehead again. It's the same for Buddhism (perfect state under Ashoka 2000 years ago) and various other religions which have drifted from their core concepts as additions which suited rulers/priests at the time have been a part of those core concepts.

[iknowexactly]

(03-27-2013 07:46 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

Eastern European partriotism and national pride is the West's best hope.

And from what I'm hearing from Britain, Cameron has taken the first nibbles of the red-pill. Which is hard to believe, but we can hope.

Ukraine has slim polite girls, a vast store of top soil, and not much else to recommend it.

There's a reason Poland's GDP has doubled since the Soviet Union broke up and Ukraine's progress hasn't been close.

If you're looking to those people for any kind of intellectual or spiritual leadership you are pretty deluded. Have you ever lived there?

Why do you think so many of the smartest people are GONE?

[jaakkeli]

Remember back when everyone was convinced that Catholics were about to outbreed Protestants and take over Europe? Then Catholic fertility bombed even worse than Scandinavian fertility.

Iran's total fertility rate is now just 1.71 which would be typical for a northern European country. The Islamic regime is screaming about how women should not be going for education and careers because they're in full panic about the sudden collapse of fertility. Their population is still growing because their health care has been improving and old people are living longer but their family size has dropped to European standards. One by one Muslim countries are moving on from gloating about European decadence to panic about their tanking fertility.

All this stuff about women not wanting babies has to come from omega men who don't have any contact with real life females. Every time I meet some 26 year old it quickly comes out that they're in desperate baby fever and I have to run away fast. The more conservative the country, the harder the fertility tanks when it starts tanking, most likely because the more conservative countries are more deluded about the reason behind the fertility drop and they respond with the wrong policies.

See any survey, women are much more likely to want children than men. Men on this site forget that not all women are that attractive and sexual liberalism is pretty brutal on unattractive women. I've watched my attractive female relatives marry easily and get the 2 or 3 children while my unattracive female relatives have been going through crazy shit like converting to cults just to find a husband.

[Ovid]

(03-27-2013 08:13 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

I don't think feminism is the culprit. Southern and Eastern Europe (which are supposed to be the least feminist parts of Europe) plus Germany have much lower fertility then Western and Northern Europe.

That's because Western and Northern European countries are much more filled with immigrants than Southern. Feminism affects the Neapolitan girl and the London girl, and neither of them want children too badly. The London girl will probably be more anti-family though, in her outlook, while the Neapolitan girl will still get married, just have fewer children. The London girl's neighbors, however, are from Pakistan and have five children, which skews the demographics.

[Kentucky]

(03-27-2013 07:30 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Most second-tier cities in Eastern European are declining. Much of it is due to emigration. When a poor country gets admitted to the EU, people leave to richer countries for opportunity.

Yes places like Bulgaria and Latvia are empty due to emigration.

But Germany, France,UK are seeing massive declines in fertility only offset by mass immigration

[Kentucky]

(03-27-2013 07:46 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

(03-27-2013 06:58 AM)j r Wrote:  

There are no grand plans. As people get richer, they tend to have fewer children. That's the whole story.

I've been taught this simplication as well.

Not true.

Both Europeans and Americans were making plenty of babies in the 50's and 60's.

What's changed is how women define utility.

My hypothesis is that women define utility to a larger extent based on social norms. If the social norm for a woman is to seek a career (and motherhood), I expect most women will seek to achieve this. That it's basically unachievable except at great cost in taxes (as in Scandinavia, where birthrates are relatively high), is a rather spectacular lie - I don't understand how a lie so great can perpetuate for so long. Oh well.

If the social norm for women is to find a husband, settle, and raise children, they'll focus on that. In Spain and Italy, this is largely the case. Women work hard in their 20's and early 30's so that they can become stay-at-home moms for the one child they manage to have. The reason they must work is high costs of living for middle-class lifestyles.

Middle-class lifestyle is expensive, I imagine, because children are expensive (high consumption expectations) and housing is expensive (protective housing markets).

This can't possibly be all the explanation, but it's better than just "richer people breed less" which fails to account for a lot of uncontrolled variables.

(03-27-2013 07:21 AM)Branimir Wrote:  

The problem are not the immigrants per se, it's the people and politics who let them do such things. The political correctness.

If you raise a kid and let it do everything to you it wants, like we see nowadays is often the case, of course the kid won't have any respect to you and grow up as an spoiled brat that demands to be treated extra special.

In every place this developement is at a different stage, and I'd say Sweden is in the by far the worst situation, I just can't believe it myself what they're doing to themselves. Norway is also close by. Now what happens , you'll have some crazy guy make a shooting spree on an island. Although he is a maniac , he's a symptome of something even more wrong, the disease which lead him to do it. And I'm sad to believe that this symptome is just a glympse of what could possibly happen, if this disease won't be treated.

Luckily in Germany this false political correctness yet hasn't infected the general population that much, though of course the media tries to feed liberalist bullshit to the german people.
But this doesn't help if the goverment doesn't act to it's people wishes.

I don't care if some Middle Eastern country is going full islamistic and has stupid laws, as long as they keep to themselves I'm fine with it.
... but yea, just let us continue our wars in the Middle East and have even more refugees fleeing to europe.
It's really like our governments are being led by a invisible hand, which just wants that shit escalates by bringing cultures up against each others. But I'm just too confused by all this. It's just a mess nowadays and I can't see through it to identify it what direction we're being pulled.

There is a progressivist agenda that also happens to hate Western civilization (so-called Oikophobia). There's plenty of muslim culture out there, but for some reason we have to destroy European cities with degenerative amounts of Anatolian, Beduin and Pashtun dyslexics. Add to this their primitive culture and you have a truly savage recipe for societal decay.

It's rather difficult to perceive the rationality in all this, because when you consider it from a purely cost-benefit perspective, it's absolutely insane.

European politicians and progressive intellectuals are enablers, for sure - and I think it has to do with the fact most of them were Trotskyites in the 70's, throwing rocks at police, hating on America and Israel, and so on and so forth.

But it has a lot to do with the primitive nature of non-European cultures. Except Chinese and East Asians usually manage to do well, again because their culture is far more advanced.

(03-27-2013 07:30 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Most second-tier cities in Eastern European are declining. Much of it is due to emigration. When a poor country gets admitted to the EU, people leave to richer countries for opportunity.

Eastern European partriotism and national pride is the West's best hope.

And from what I'm hearing from Britain, Cameron has taken the first nibbles of the red-pill. Which is hard to believe, but we can hope.

Italy and the med countries have almost the lowest birthrates of all though.