[Chaz]

Hey all,
I am pretty new to Game theory and practice, as I have always been in long-term relationships without too much side action. But now my long-term gf and I have broken up and I need to get busy. I would like to start with her sister, but I realize that is a huge challenge.

Anyway, I have Roosh's Bang, and also Strauss' The Game. Can you all recommend other resources? What else (if anything) would be good? I have been reading Roissy's blog and Roosh, which have been very helpful. Any other recommendations?? Thanks in advance!

[speakeasy]

(06-11-2010 09:48 PM)Chaz Wrote:  

But now my long-term gf and I have broken up and I need to get busy. I would like to start with her sister...

[hydrogonian]

Two essential reads, imo:

The Way of the Superior Man - Deida

ModeOne - Alan Roger Curie

Also:

No matter what anyone else thinks of him, Tyler Durden has written a couple of key articles, that I read years ago, that helped me get in the permanent mindset needed to be successful. The one that I like in-particular is called "Secret Society". Its premise holds very true in terms of the difference between a guy who gets laid regularly and one who does not.

Some of his better stuff is the articles that get into inner game, value, etc..and not so much the "situational pickup" type of stuff. A lot of it is useful as a framework to keep in the back of your mind. It can keep you from behaving in unnatractive ways.

Everthying that I mention here is designed to change you as a person, in terms of how you think about your relationship to women, It doesn't so much to teach you how to pick up on a situation by situation basis. Reading the stuff that changes your inner thought process is what will turn you into a playboy, not reading about lines/indirect techniques/ etc..

What I've mentioned here, once you read, reread and really understand it, (and then practice it) will turn you into what you want to become. Especially the first two books and the article I recommended.

Once you really get into it, you can try some Zan type stuff, as I do see the value to it. But let me know if you figure it out how to get good at it, because it seems like you have to be a bit of a natural to apply his approach well.

[AlphaQup2nite]

I dont even remember where i learned game. Half of it i guess was me going out there and chatting up chicks, then i randomly stumbled on the PUA scene on some unrelated search. I did a lot of reading, but honestly, i would recommend staying away for the technical stuff and use the theory. 90% of good game does not translate well. I suck with NLP for example. But i use the theory behind it, appealing to emotional states, in my own game very well.

The problem newbies run into is that they read a shit ton of stuff, and then start analyzing every little thing they did.
ie:
"Should i open the door for her or am i being too supplicative?"
"Shes smiling at me, is this the DDOB stare?"
"She touched me, is that an incedental IOA, or an accident, and how should i respond?"

It makes you far too hesitant and projects a off feeling. Ive found its much easier to have a tight game with just a concept of theory. For example, its easier to think "i want to be confident" and do what you think works. 75% of the time you will have good sucess. For trouble areas do some research. I honestly find that too much studying of the game sucks up too much time, and confuses you to the point where approaching is harder then it was before b/c you have to many variables.

[Chaz]

Hey thanks a lot for the input, guys. Hydrogonian, I will definitely check out those resources you mentioned. I appreciate all the advice.

Speakeasy, I know it sounds confusing to go for the ex-gf's sister, but it might just be possible if the ex-gf gives her sis the green light. Difficult to pull off, though.

[Tor]

This seems like an interesting variation of one-itis. With you wanting to get back at her rather than getting her back.

[Chaz]

Tor, I think you are right about the one-itis thing with her sis, but I'll probably have to let it go because I don't want to "get back" at, or hurt, the ex-gf. We are on good terms (as in, FBs) and I'd like to keep it that way for a while.

[OGNorCal707]

Mystery Method is good, I'm half way through it and it's legit, a lot of it is stuff you might have heard/read about from other PUA guides, but I think it's worth checking out. One thing though, maybe it's just the girls in this town, but "negging" hasn't really been working too well for me, even when tactfully and playfully, but it's featured pretty heavy in Mystery's advice.

As far as my advice goes, as someone who is improving and getting better, I can offer a few reflections. I have to give a lot of credit to Roosh, who has got me thinking about things in more of a Zen Buddhist way when it comes to trying to approach and pick up women. I used to have the worst approach anxiety known to man (I've had "social anxiety" since I was a kid), and would take rejections, getting "blown out", etc. really personally. That is probably the worst thing you can do, once you "detach" yourself and basically "stop giving a fuck", it will help your game soo much. Once again, props to Roosh and one of his recent posts about "approaching should be the foundation of your game", I'd agree and as I'm finding out, approaching is what is really going to help grow your game, and yes even those "blow outs", because you will learn from them and also learn not not care.

I've also learned and come to realize that whenever I would do approaches when first getting into the game, I would be so nervous, that it would effect my body language, tone, expression, etc., that I wasn't projecting confidence or an image of a person who is very comfortable. Body language, eye contact and voice projection and tone are so crucial, probably as much or even more then what you're saying (as long as it's not something totally lame/weak). Speak clearly, confidently, putting proper emphasis on certain things if you are trying to be clever/witty, just basically "being articulate".

As someone with approach anxiety, nervousness, and low confidence, I have been kind of learning that sometimes you "need to fake it till you make it", you've probably heard it before, but we all know that women are attracted to confidence/arrogance, so just be that guy, or at least try your best to act like him. When I think of an opener and see a girl or set that I want to approach, I kind of like to think of myself as an actor in a play or improvisational skit, where I have a line to convincingly deliver then, from there use my skill, talent, intellect, personality, etc. to keep the "performance" going.

You kind of need to be a "lyrical wordsmith" or "artist", not in a hip-hop emcee kind of way (LOL), but what you say, the cleverness, the smoothness, delivery, and timing are huge. Recently I have been working on setting a "sexual frame" when it comes to conversation, and escalating the flirting, from indirect opener, introduction, convo development, and into comfort building. By sexual frame, I mean I try to take the nature of the conversation more sexual, but in a smooth, casual ("non-awkard) kind of way, where it all flows. Sometimes I do this from the get go, I can't think of any "examples", but last night I opened a girl at the bar who looked very young, I asked her: "Do you know the bouncers here?" and as she started to open her mouth to reply, I said: "I ask, because you don't look a day over 21", she said: "I'm 21", I said: "I guess I could believe it". She offered to show me her I.D., and I said: "No it's all good, I'm sure that you're over 18 and that's all I really care about." I said this in a very flirtatious way, implying a sexual vibe, and gently, casually touched her lower back when doing so, with a smile on my face.

I can write a bunch more, but I'll start with this, sorry if this is all "stating the obvious" or stuff you already know, anyways hope it helps, good luck, and remember as Roosh says, you got to put in work and look at pick up as a "job" if you want to get good.

[Caramel Communist]

Go work a sales job temporarily...it will teach you fear is nothing but your brain trying to protect you. The more rejections and no's you receive will desensitize you from paralyzing fear of rejection. I have called on THOUSANDS OF clients often hearing many yea's, nea's, and fuck off asshole..lol. I DO NOT GIVE A FUCK....and I grew up up being terrible shy guy....

I do not have fucking game. I just roll up and start a bullshit conversation and let her lead me for about 90 percent of the conversation with me closing the final 10 percent and getting the commitment/rejection...it's the same thang with sales/interviews/police interrogations..initiate through a question, observation, joke, or compliment...

ABC=Always Be Closing.....


Professor Roosh is absolutely right about it being a numbers game. It's your big bang moment and it will take millions of things to be right for you to close perfectly. Is the chick on her period? Did she have a good day at work? Does she have kids? Did those kids fuck up at school today? All the unforeseen bullshit can impact if you will close and since your not fucking Nostradamus, just go for it and play the numbers. Win your fucking lottery...



T.I.P.- I do not know your financial state but the MEAL is the most important commitment you can get from a women. It's a social event that begins the process of chica's standing down the defenses. Dinner/Lunch it does not matter...and always try to eat after the main rush..less people, less noise, less anxiety more sharing of info..more walls being tore down..and you closing...ABC - Always Be Closing..


Dancing is the 2nd most important event but I don't know you..you could be MC Hammer strong or Tom Cruise weak...that is a big fucking deal breaker for MANY WOMEN around the world....lol...know your 2 step, stepping, salsa, tango, fuck even break dancing will pay off...I can't tell you how may fat busted dudes i seen pull a 8-9 chick because he could step without breaking her feet...

[Johnny Dakota]

Caramel is right. I don't care how weak a man's game is, if he can really salsa dance well he will get laid.

[clr]

Not a numbers game, sorry Roosh, Hydro I knew I liked ya for a reason. Those are two great books.

Alpha hit it too.... fuck all the technical shit. Work on your "inner game" get confident, all the stupid shit you will learn from being a confident guy, start hitting the gym, take a martial arts and even tho he is a weird fucker, The sex god method is interesting.

I think guys gain confidence from 2 things, being able to handle themselves physically, and knowing how to fuck a girl. Dont read too much, get out and talk to girls, find a guy who will push you if you cant push yourself.

Guys make the mistake of trying to read all sorts of shit, you learn by doing.

About the #'s game.... I think you will find, guys that are good become more target shooters. We wait and find someone we really like and approach. Anymore, I dont approach more then 1-2 times a night, because I wait for what I want and I go get it. Sometimes I am in party mode where I just wanna talk and approach and have fun, but thats different.

[Willy Wonka]

(06-12-2010 01:54 AM)AlphaQup2nite Wrote:  

The problem newbies run into is that they read a shit ton of stuff, and then start analyzing every little thing they did.
ie:
"Should i open the door for her or am i being too supplicative?"
"Shes smiling at me, is this the DDOB stare?"
"She touched me, is that an incedental IOA, or an accident, and how should i respond?"

It makes you far too hesitant and projects a off feeling. Ive found its much easier to have a tight game with just a concept of theory. For example, its easier to think "i want to be confident" and do what you think works. 75% of the time you will have good sucess. For trouble areas do some research. I honestly find that too much studying of the game sucks up too much time, and confuses you to the point where approaching is harder then it was before b/c you have to many variables.

That's some good advice.

Some times things do get cloudy with all of the different advice and shit out there.

[beebopaloo]

lots of good advice here.

if you really have the enthusiasm and patience, I recommend The Blueprint DVDs from RSD. That is 20 hours of picking up explained so well, it is almost like an effin' university course.

[hydrogonian]

lol..yeah, I'll agree about the blueprint, and candidly admit to having read it.

But the key term here is "read it". I don't think that id have the patience for the 20 hour DVD course. I believe you can find the text of the original manuscript it on scribd for free. It doesn't take very long to read.

I think I read it maybe 3 years ago, when I was still working some kinks out of my game (not that that ever stops), and found a lot of value in it. If for nothing but the fact that its just a huge academic-ish model for self assuredness/confidence. Out of interest, I get into reading stuff like that. If I remember correctly, it was helpful in that it broke down self assuredness in a manner that allowed you to dissect why you have less than you should, if that be the case.

But if I could boil it all down, to save anyone a lot of time, it comes down to "Don't care what anyone thinks about you in social situations" (talking with women, at parties, wherever.) Learn to do everything without a hint of second guessing or care as to what other people think of you. If you can credibly do this, then that is the type of ultimate confidence that is attractive to women. Its hard to argue with that premise.

Thats what I remember from it anyway.

Actually, I forgot about it as a good resource. But I'd definitely second it, and add it to the recommended sources that I mentioned above.

[thekiller]

I've read A LOT of the seduction material and you can shortcut your learning time a TON by focusing on your inner programing. For that I recommend Brent's podcasts at http://www.attracthotterwomen.com, it's like $20 a month and if you don't want to spend a whole bunch drop it after like the first 5 podcasts, you'll get the gist of it by then. Also Sean Messenger has some cool specific podcasts you can get for reasonable, I like his ones on Eye Contact, Dating a Bar Girl(aka Stripper, Bartender, Hostess), and Dating a Latina.

For body language if you don't want to wait till your inner programing changes it for you check out http://www.robbrindedblog.com/ he has an ebook of stretches that help you move alpha, also he has tons of freebies on his blog if you don't want to shell out the $27.

[zanetti]

it will mostly depend on where you're coming from. if you're someone who's always been pretty outgoing, with many friends, sociable guy etc, then all you need to do is learn some techniques or lines or whatever

if on the other hand you're someone introverted, inward looking, not naturally outgoing, never done well with girls or people in general (which in my experience is 95% of people that get into this) then learning some cutesy lines or memorising stories is prob gonna do more bad than good. stuff like eckhart tolle and sedona method will be more effective in getting rid of some of the negative programming you have that you're prob not even aware off

[Feo]

Adding to zanetti, check out a book called "The Handbook to Higher Conciousness" by Ken Keyes Jr. That book single handedly changed my outlook on life and "inner game". After reading it you will be a more peaceful, happy person in general.

I've also checked out "Magic bullets" by savoy and "Get the girl" by mehow, which are both pretty good books. But honestly, just do what everyone else has said. Hit the gym, learn to fight, pick up a new hobby, take a class and adopt it as part of your life. You naturally pick up the characteristics that a lot of these books teach you how to mimic.

[Chaz]

Wow, much thanks to all for the awesome input and advice.

In fairness to Roosh (and Neil Strauss) I haven't yet read Bang (or The Game), even though I bought both of 'em last year. I know both are excellent reads, and I probably should have read them before asking for even more recommendations! I've just been a bit lazy about it, but now I'm inspired.

Now speaking of other Game-related products, is anyone else here amazed by the vast quantity? I am astonished that there are so many different(?) products available! I mean, in the last few months, I have probably seen dozens of Game-type products online, which seems pretty wild to me. Who knew?!

[hydrogonian]

(06-16-2010 12:09 PM)Chaz Wrote:  

Now speaking of other Game-related products, is anyone else here amazed by the vast quantity? I am astonished that there are so many different(?) products available! I mean, in the last few months, I have probably seen dozens of Game-type products online, which seems pretty wild to me. Who knew?!

While I haven't noticed because I don't look for that type of stuff anymore, I'm not surprised that theres a lot of game stuff out there now.
Theres potentially a lot of money in it, I suppose...

However, I would be very surprised if most of it wasn't absolute shite...

I say this because I read a page from a 'players' blog the other day (I think he was slinging either products or services as well) about how he picked up a woman. His game, and overall perception of women, was retarded... it was all about 'running the cube' or some other type of indirect scheme... then he had some closing line about taking her to his bedroom, which I read as absolute bullshit...

I'd be careful about what regurgitated and useless information that you buy, as most of the good shit was written a while ago by guys who have already been established, like Roosh, Deida, Curie, Durden, and Zan...

[AlphaQup2nite]

According to my one of my old classmates from HS, the game theory is going mainstream in at least the UK. She says that on an average night, about 75% of the guys out there will be following several of the principles and doing it badly. She has been an avid studier of game techniques after in introduced here, and her and her friend's gave me a common mo for wannabes in UK clubs.

1) Peacocking without obvious social proof
2) Asking a personal question
3) terrible attempts to isolate
4) Overattention to body language

This alone is making me try to take my game in a totally new direction, since these failures only serve to reinforce a negative response to these tactics. It wont be long until the game we know now is just the same as the standard dating technique, at least in the night game scene. Yet another reason to go out there and develop your own style. I'm all about sharing ideas in the game, but due to that, you need to evolve your game. So dont look for a how to list, look for the theory on why, and go out and make it your own. You know chicks like emotional stories? Please dont copy some of the NLP programs verbatim. Anjani reported that in one night at a club, she had someone try to run the roller coaster pattern and the special connection pattern on her atleast 4 times in a night. Everyone can copy, few can apply, and thats where you make yourself stand out. Knowing stories and games and such will only get you so far, the rest is making yourself intersting, and knowing how to express it.