[Kona]

I have a decision to make and need some advice. I entered into a contract, and I don't want to honor it at all.

Several weeks ago I bought a boat from a guy I know. The bank was about to take it from him, so he sold it to me at an extreme discount. I cleaned it up and tweaked it a little. I knew I could sell it for way more than I spent on it. Because the economy is bad, I figured I would have a hard time finding someone to buy it myself. I signed an agency agreement with a yacht brokerage that requires me to pay 11.5% of the total sale price. This was 7 days ago.

I love everyone, and think everybody should be allowed to do whatever they want. I also believe that if someone commits a crime, and does their time for it, they're cool with me, to an extent. The boat broker man seemed normal at our initial meeting. Monday I googled him I found out he did some deviant and perverted gay shit over 15 years ago, and spent 4 years in prison because of it. He is on the freaking sex offender registry. His crime was against a child. Then he violated his parole picking up a prostitute in a designated prostitution free zone and went back to jail for a year. The prostitution free zone is Chinatown here in Honolulu, and that's where the transexual and man hookers are. On top of that, I googled his email address and his picture is on some man for man gay dating website. Even the name of his boat brokering business is gay.

He was supposed to come out last Thursday and take some pictures of the boat to put on his website, and get the process started. He called an hour before he was supposed to meet me and had some dramatic story about why he couldn't show. I went ahead and took some pictures, and put an ad on Craigslist. A man responded right away. I took him for a test ride on Saturday. He loved the boat, and paid me for it directly on Monday. All of the titles and registration have been transferred. I got seven times what I paid for the boat.

The gay boat broker called me this morning and said he was finally able to come and take some pictures tomorrow. I told him I was busy. I did not tell him I sold the boat, or that I knew he was a pervert.

These are my positions:

1) 11.5% of what I sold that thing for is a lot of money to pay someone who did absolutely nothing. Sure I did a little selling, but I just advertised the boat in the right place at the right time. That guy was buying a boat last weekend, regardless. I just got lucky. Had the gay guy listed it on his website maybe the man I sold it to would have gone through the gay guy? I can't wait around for the broker to get off his sex offending ass, I'm trying to make money.

2) I don't support sex offenders, gay or otherwise. I absolutely don't support crimes against children. Sure the registry exists, but I don't check to see if everyone I meet is in it. I would never have allowed this man to act on my behalf in any way whatsoever had I known he was a pervert. Beyond the registry, sex offenders should be required to disclose to the public that they are freaks whenever they do business.

I faxed the contract to my damn lawyer, and have been told that legally I have no argument for not paying this guy. I am also liable to be sued just for advertising the boat myself. The pervert can easily put a lien on property I own.

Most gay people I know lived fucked up lives. But then again, most of them are bi-sexual girls. Maybe he doesn't even have the money to sue me? It costs $275 to have a lawyer go to court for me. A lawyer can keep delaying the proceedings and every time I have to go I'll out this guy as a sex offender in open court. Maybe just threatening him with that will back him off?

Have any of you guys involved in real estate ever stiffed a broker somehow?

Truth be told, I'm supposed to pay this guy a little over $13,000. I'd much rather spend every dime of that making sure this pervert gets nothing. Of course I don't want to do anything violent, even though it would be easy. But I am willing to be as dirty as necessary.

Some of you are business experts, and most of you are geniuses. Please give me some creative tips.

Thank you all for taking the time to read this. This situation is really pissing me off today.

Aloha!

[hydrogonian]

First, I have to state that in no way should anything that I tell you be considered or taken as legal advice. I'm not a lawyer, and you should consult one if you need legal consultation on your issue.

That disclaimer out of the way, I have to say that that is one weird story.

I can only speak hypothetically, putting myself in your shoes and telling you what I would do if it were me.

First, from here on out, I would NEVER mention anything about his sexual orientation or past crimes again. I wouldn't talk about it on a forum, or to anyone that I knew. I definitely wouldn't mention it in court. That could be defamation, and the judge certainly wouldn't see it as being relevant to your case. The judge may lose all respect for your perspective and case at that point. If the judge is against you, you can pay an attorney all the money that yu have fighting it, and you'll still lose.

If it were ever to go to court, and anyone representing him found out about your opinions, they could likely make an easy case that you were breaking the contract because you were being discriminatory. No matter what the rest of the facts were, the case would likely be tainted by your statements. I would just put all of that out of my mind, and deal with everything based on the core situation surrounding the contract and the boat.

Contracts are usually only as good as either parties ability to enforce them.

What can you do so that he doesn't find out about the boat sale?

Do you think he will go so far as to check the public records?

Whatever you do, make sure that you don't get caught acting in bad faith (lying), because he might be able to seek additional damages.

Also, 13k isn't a lot of money. He would have trouble affording a lawyer with only a small amount of money at stake. However, they could pursue you in small claims court (where I am, I believe that small claims is anything below $8k. It might be higher where you are.) Otherwise, suing you might require much more money from him to go to the lawyer. He may decide its not worth it.

You could wait to hear about any action against you, and then decide to settle. That action may never come.

Try to avoid an emotional situation, especially from guy like that. Again, what can you do to throw the scent off of the trail that the boat was sold, or that you still want to sell it? If he thinks that your backing out of selling it, then he wont pay attention to you. Again, don't get caught lying.

You have some cash now, maybe a months vacation is in order. Don't return calls, and maybe he'll forget about you and the boat.

Make sure you erase any history of your boat advertisement.

However, maybe its not worth the trouble. You did sign a contract, albeit a bad one. Maybe you should just pay him to keep your stress level low. You did make a deal, and you did sign a contract. Both of those are things that you agreed to. I know its shitty to hear, but people following the rules is what makes the business world go around, for the most part.

Whatever you do, don't let it get emotional. Its not worth it.

oh, btw, what kind of boat did you sell?

[Roosh]

Pay him, learn from it, and move on with your life.

[DrArete]

1. Him being gay has nothing to do with it. If anything having a gay dude sell a boat would have been an advantage as gay men have plenty of disposable income.
2. The law does not say "honor all contracts except for those with people you don't like"
3. Pay him immediately, and if you are lucky enough not to get sued, don't do anything like this again.
4. You already have taken advantage of someone and made a huge profit very quickly, don't get greedy and stupid.

[DrArete]

Also, you are not some sort of amateur police officer/vigilante frontiersman. It is not your job to punish this guy.

[Pepini]

Option 1: Pay him and forget about it.

Option 2: U could say that a friend of a friend bought the boat (never, never mention you put an add in Craiglist) . Remenber him it´s partially his fault cause he wasnt there to take the pictures when scheduled. Make him an offer bellow what he would normally receive. But pay him something. You did sign a contract (Pacta sunt Servanda). The fact that is a sex offender/gay/pervert in the eyes of the law is completely irrelevant.

I would advise option number 1.

[lilseezie]

You've got nothing to lose by trying to talk your way out of it. Be super nice to him (obviously not mentioning any of the stuff you found out), and make up a story like a close friend decided they wanted to buy it after you'd contacted him for his services, and you're really sorry blah blah blah. See what he says. If he gets pissed or threatens to sue, offer to pay him an amount less than (maybe half?) of what you actually owe him, to compensate him for the trouble. If he still doesn't accept, pay him the full amount and be done with it.

[Jim Kirk]

Whether you can void the contract will depend on your state's law. Sage advice: Although not true 100% of the time - there is usually a loophole out of any contract. Generally in ever broker agreement I have ever seen - if you find a buyer for the property - the salesman is not entitled to commission.

1. Read the contract you signed with the salesman cover to cover and end to end - is it silent as to what happens if you find the buyer yourself - does it say explicitly that he is entitled to his commission no matter how the buyer is found - Is it a contract giving him the exclusive right to sell the boat over anyone in the world but you - THE SELLER. - Depending on your state's laws - a clause barring the seller from finding a buyer himself for something like a boat may be illegal or unenforceable.

2. The guy being a Peter Puffer is irrelevant to your case - however his being a convincted felon is. In a lot of states - a convicted felon cannot act as a fiduciary. A seller's ageny is a fiduciary at least where I am from. If you have to be licensed to act as a boat salesbroker by law - maybe he is not licensed and therefore he cannot enforce the contract?

Who knows - I don't give legal advice here and I don't know what State you are in. Just a word to the wise - i would spend 200$ talking to an attorney about this before I talked to the guy. Telling him you sold it may screw you from the outset and hand him the money, literally and figuratively - anything you say can and will be used against you. Be doubly cautious what you put in writing because it stays in writing forever - you may want to wait and say nothing until lawyers get involved - in other words nothing is said and nothing is written but between lawyers. I'm just saying homey . . .

[hydrogonian]

(06-10-2010 09:49 PM)Jim Kirk Wrote:  

Whether you can void the contract will depend on your state's law. Sage advice: Although not true 100% of the time - there is usually a loophole out of any contract. Generally in ever broker agreement I have ever seen - if you find a buyer for the property - the salesman is not entitled to commission.

1. Read the contract you signed with the salesman cover to cover and end to end - is it silent as to what happens if you find the buyer yourself - does it say explicitly that he is entitled to his commission no matter how the buyer is found - Is it a contract giving him the exclusive right to sell the boat over anyone in the world but you - THE SELLER. - Depending on your state's laws - a clause barring the seller from finding a buyer himself for something like a boat may be illegal or unenforceable.

2. The guy being a Peter Puffer is irrelevant to your case - however his being a convincted felon is. In a lot of states - a convicted felon cannot act as a fiduciary. A seller's ageny is a fiduciary at least where I am from. If you have to be licensed to act as a boat salesbroker by law - maybe he is not licensed and therefore he cannot enforce the contract?

Who knows - I don't give legal advice here and I don't know what State you are in. Just a word to the wise - i would spend 200$ talking to an attorney about this before I talked to the guy. Telling him you sold it may screw you from the outset and hand him the money, literally and figuratively - anything you say can and will be used against you. Be doubly cautious what you put in writing because it stays in writing forever - you may want to wait and say nothing until lawyers get involved - in other words nothing is said and nothing is written but between lawyers. I'm just saying homey . . .

Kona would be smart to take Mr Kirks advice. But Kona, I think you'll be getting billed for 12 minutes If you didnt know, Jim is an attorney.

On his behalf, thanks for weighing in.

[Kona]

Mahalo for all of the excellent advice my brothers!

I took care of the scenario very easily last Thursday. I haven't heard a thing about it since, and doubt I will.

Friday was a Hawaiian holiday. I went to the guys office about 4:30 last Thursday, figuring he wanted to get out of there and start his long weekend. All I told him was that I had second thoughts about selling the boat, since I had gotten it for such a good price. He had no problem with that. He said he hadn't pulled any state paperwork, and hadn't been able to since I hadn't given him the official title. (Like Hydro said)

Instead of tearing up the contract I'd signed, I got him to just give me the damn thing!

Problem solved!

Thanks again to all you guys, especially Jim Kirk Attorney at law and Pepini, you're a lawyer too, aren't you? Mahalo for the pro bono work!

@Hydrogonian- It was a Cabo 35 Express.

Aloha!

[hydrogonian]

(06-14-2010 04:06 AM)Kona Wrote:  

Mahalo for all of the excellent advice my brothers!

I took care of the scenario very easily last Thursday. I haven't heard a thing about it since, and doubt I will.

Friday was a Hawaiian holiday. I went to the guys office about 4:30 last Thursday, figuring he wanted to get out of there and start his long weekend. All I told him was that I had second thoughts about selling the boat, since I had gotten it for such a good price. He had no problem with that. He said he hadn't pulled any state paperwork, and hadn't been able to since I hadn't given him the official title. (Like Hydro said)

Instead of tearing up the contract I'd signed, I got him to just give me the damn thing!

Problem solved!

Thanks again to all you guys, especially Jim Kirk Attorney at law and Pepini, you're a lawyer too, aren't you? Mahalo for the pro bono work!

@Hydrogonian- It was a Cabo 35 Express.

Aloha!

lol..good work! shady, but good...

if he were smart, he would have done a lot of things differently and made it harder for you to weasel out. Like made copies of the contract, been more suspicious of you, got on top of the deal quicker, etc..

Once he catches someone doing this to him, he'll change his ways. Luckily, you got him at a point in his sales career where he hasn't caught anyone yet. Capitalism bites those in the ass that don't cover it completely...Business people evolve as they learn...

I'm not saying that what you did was right, but it really is a no rules game out there. Often, what you get is what you get away with. The only rules are the ones that can effectively be enforced. I try not to be that way, and Ive had shady shit pulled on me and I know how it feels. But I also realize that its the nature of the game. No loyalty, no rules (other those which can be effectively enforced), and no handshakes. It also sounds like you won't even be on his radar, which is good with a guy like that...

Congrats on keeping your money though, seriously. Its better than the alternative, which would have amounted to little more than a contractual technicality... so, in this instance, in my opinion, you really didn't weasel out of anything that bad, I mean the guy did zero work... It would have been different if he had worked to sell it for two months, then you sold it privately and kept the cash...

[hydrogonian]

Holy shit kona, I just checked the retail values of the cabo 35 express on yachtworld. I'm not sure at what end of the price spectrum that you sold the boat, but from the sound of the deal you got, I have to say good job!

Btw, thats a hella expensive boat for what you get! A guy could get a nice used catamaran, and a longer one at that, for the same price. I wonder how a 35 foot single hull commands the same price? It sure doesn't look like that much boat...

Any plans for the cash?

[Pepini]

(06-14-2010 04:06 AM)Kona Wrote:  

Pepini, you're a lawyer too, aren't you?

I used to work heavily in bankrupcy. The last two years I´ve been a part-time lawyer. My goal was only making enough money to travel, also helping friends and family pro bono. Now i´m going back to the arena working in tax law (cause that´s one of the fields were you get more money) for one year to make enough money to eventually go to Poland.

Back to your problem another option would be check if the contract you made with the faggot had exclusivity. Probably not. So you could hire another company witha lower comission to fictious sell the boat. Anyway you´ve already solved it.

[clr]

Pepini, where they hell are you? you sound just like an aussie guy I met in Riga

[Kona]

(06-14-2010 11:33 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Btw, thats a hella expensive boat for what you get! A guy could get a nice used catamaran, and a longer one at that, for the same price. I wonder how a 35 foot single hull commands the same price? It sure doesn't look like that much boat...

It fished well, though.

People that use their boats to make a living can get in trouble when they buy way too much. Well, they get sold way too much. The boat I sold had a sonar and nav system in it that was overkill. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to use only about 10% of what it was capable of. You need backup sonar if you're hunting submarines, but for fishing, somebody just soaked you for an extra 20k.

They get you on the interior big, too. No one is going to pay you for a charter just because your bench seats are corinthian leather. They pay you, and come back, when you land fish. Do you want to pay $1500 a day to have a good time, or do you want to pay those dollars because the boat you're on has a marble countertop? Personally, I take mine out for a few days at a time, and don't want my issue while I'm out to be a broken Murano glass chandelier.

(06-14-2010 11:33 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Any plans for the cash?

1) Wise financial investments at the bank.

2) Las Vegas/Las Vegas accessories.

3) The full donation amount allowable by law to 2 Hawaii politicians. Ones I think will win. I always wanted to see what doing that will get me.

Aloha!