[Nomad77]

This is a quote from Roosh latest book: Why Can't I use a smiley face.

The full quote is:

"It's tough for me to admit that for a large number of guys, game is only going to make a small difference. A better bet for them to get laid would be to learn how to play a musical instrument or to own a trendy shop. The next game frontier is teaching those men tight social skills..."

The essence of what he's saying is that without a solid foundation Game is not very effective. Game cannot compensate for a lack of social skills for example. And this is a very important thing to understand.

[TheSlayer]

(03-20-2013 02:28 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

The essence of what he's saying is that without a solid foundation Game is not very effective. Game cannot compensate for a lack of social skills for example. And this is a very important thing to understand.

I was under the impression that to an extent learning "game" meant learning social skills. In fact, without social skills, I am not even sure you can have game.

[Nomad77]

Yep, I guess it all comes down to what you decide to include in the concept of Game.

[OGNorCal707]

I think more than anything there is a "ceiling" on how far game can take a guy. I was thinking about busting a thread on it here, or maybe waiting till I try to start up a blog, any how game can improve a man's success and quality of women, but only up to a point. I think one of the greatest myths propagated by the PUA community, especially during the earlier days, is that game can overcome looks and social status to be the one sole X factor in getting a guy laid. Maybe this was more true about 10 years ago when "game" as a science was coming into it's own...

But, now things are different. Having been in Playa del Carmen a week ago, surrounded by some of the most highly concentrated talent of 8+ women, I came to some realizations. I am a guy that most women would probably rate in the 7-range on a 1-10 scale, therefore I am better than average, but by no means a male model or sex symbol, not the kind guy very hot women will automatically want to fuck.

Now I realized that in my life, I have only fucked 2 women that were true and solid 8's, a handful of girl's I would say are 7.5 (close to 8, but not quite hot enough), and a great deal of girls in the 6-7 range. The use of game, at least for me can only take me so much farther out of my own league, (so to speak).

I think this is more pertinent now than ever, as Roosh himself as well as many other guys are coming to the conclusion that women are becoming far more superficial and picky about men's looks, and the sexual market in the vast majority of the U.S. is skewed heavily in favor of women, in other words women have the upper-hand when it comes to selecting sexual partners. All of this creates an environment where men are not only dating down, but struggling and are required to be proficient in game, just to date a woman of equal value, let alone one that is higher than the man in terms of the looks scale.

I used to believe that the use of solid game could lend a man to date up two points, meaning if you are a 5 you can land a 7, if you are a 7 you can land a 9. I don't know, maybe I am just disillusioned, but in this modern era I am starting to think that in the U.S., game will only get you "dating up" one point, meaning that if you are a 6, the best you can do is a 7.

This is all based on conjecture and overall on generalizations, but it's a clear trend I see, and the feedback I get from others lends itself to backing up these observations. All of this goes based solely on game, however, if one has another X factor such as lot's of wealthy (i.e. upscale, luxurious, attractive lifestyle), or high social status (i.e. social value, popularity, implied power or desirability), these factors will change the situation.

Therefore when you quote Roosh as writing: "A better bet for them to get laid would be to learn how to play a musical instrument or to own a trendy shop." In essence what he is saying is that opposed to your typical guy relying solely on game, he might be better off developing status by being a guitar player in a band, or owning a shop that is popular and frequented by hot women. Game alone isn't enough, you need wealth, status, fame, or a sharp gimmick in the right fishbowl, if you want to consistently pull quality women.

[MikeCF]

(03-20-2013 03:01 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

<snip>

This is all legit stuff.

The way I put it to a friend the other day, "In the U.S. you need an edge."

Even if you've good good game or good looks, you need a little hotter body, a little extra money, a pocket full of cocaine.

The problem is this: Why work so hard to get an edge when the prize is American women?

[Nomad77]

I agree, Game in the US is just an equalizer these days. You need it just to get in the door - to get an "average" girl. To get girls in the upper range (8-10) requires more than Game. This is not the case in Europe.

[Moma]

Life without hope is not a life worth living. If you look at the raw numbers in anything, only a few people make it. But without hope, then why bother?

Game is important. Game is self perception. There are some men that are supposedly 'ugly' but get a whole heap of lizards because they believe in themselves.

Game is about being smart and knowing when to strike.

Without game, you are throwing blind spears. When the choice targets are limited and far between, the archery and chucking needs to be more deliberate and calculated, hence game.

[thegmanifesto]

(03-20-2013 03:01 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

But, now things are different. Having been in Playa del Carmen a week ago, surrounded by some of the most highly concentrated talent of 8+ women, I came to some realizations.

Was Playa that good when you were there?

---

OG, don't be so hard on yourself.

I can't recall, but is your Spanish good?

Because going to Playa without good Spanish, and without being dressed sharp (which I remember you said was the case) is like going into a street fight with both hands tied behind your back.

That being said, "game" as the PUA's call it is a limited thing.

"Game" as old-school Playboys like myself refer to it is all encompassing.

That is why I write about everything under the sun.

My blog isn't subtitled "How to game girls" for a reason.

The subtitle is: "The Guide to Getting More out of Life".

Life is a Game. Not just some little tricks you can learn on the Internet.

(03-20-2013 03:05 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:01 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

<snip>

This is all legit stuff.

The way I put it to a friend the other day, "In the U.S. you need an edge."

Even if you've good good game or good looks, you need a little hotter body, a little extra money, a pocket full of cocaine.

The problem is this: Why work so hard to get an edge when the prize is American women?

So what is your plan to combat that?

[MikeCF]

(03-20-2013 04:02 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

So what is your plan to combat that?

Bounce.

2013 is all about getting as big as possible since my age is catching up with me and you can't gain muscle forever.

Then I'm peacing out.

[thegmanifesto]

(03-20-2013 04:05 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 04:02 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

So what is your plan to combat that?

Bounce.

2013 is all about getting as big as possible since my age is catching up with me and you can't gain muscle forever.

Then I'm peacing out.

Donde?

[XXL]

IMO it either comes from 1) being open minded to learn or being frustrated/forced/back to the wall

[MikeCF]

(03-20-2013 04:07 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Donde?

That's the challenge.

Unlike you and others, I hate traveling. So I'd want to put in "roots" for 6-12 months.

I also like a lot of "gay" stuff like art museums, fine dining, and walkable cities.

I planned Montreal, but I gotta go through a delegate due to my "colorful past."

So I don't know.

[Ovid]

This speculation is all very general. It depends on the particular girls. There are bitchy, entitled 3s and princess bitch 8s. More 8s than 3s will require that extra edge of on-point game + looks, but the feminist 3 will need it, too, to break down the fattitude. (Not that any of us would game a 3, just hypothetical here.)

On the other hand, there are plenty of girls who aren't as entitled, they just tend to not be as social and so are harder to find. And obviously, all this is going to be greatly exacerbated in the big coastal cities -a cutie from the Midwest might seem positively foreign by comparison.

Girls' tastes are more subjective also. Men are hardwired for physical attraction/looks first and foremost. Women aren't, and so even if they are getting pickier in that department in the West, their individual tastes are hard to generalize. One girl I dated briefly (a solid 7) confessed that she was really turned on by fat guys. Obviously that's not normal, but girls are more varied in what turns their crank. To her, I was a 4, while most guys would probably call me a 7, and a girl who likes blue eyes might think I'm an 8.

The only solid solution in the long term is to put yourself in a place where you're approaching better quality girls (mentally) who don't have ridiculous expectations and royalty complexes, and to take reasonable care of yourself so that you appeal to the broadest spectrum of women. Game works well for those of us with the common-sense to employ it properly.

[thegmanifesto]

(03-20-2013 04:11 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 04:07 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Donde?

That's the challenge.

Unlike you and others, I hate traveling. So I'd want to put in "roots" for 6-12 months.

I also like a lot of "gay" stuff like art museums, fine dining, and walkable cities.

I planned Montreal, but I gotta go through a delegate due to my "colorful past."

So I don't know.

I am with you.

I have been traveling for so long that it is starting to loose its allure to a degree.

I like it if I go to a great place, but a place I don't like, I feel like slitting my wrists. Hell, it is getting harder for me to even get motivated to travel. (I also happen to be in a place that I think my be perfect for me, so that factors in).

I guess the good thing is, the world is narrowing for me.

[scorpion]

I took that passage to be in reference to basically the bottom 20% of men. These are the guys who have serious problems preventing them from getting women, like being straight up morbidly obese, socially retarded or having severe confidence/anxiety issues. Just teaching a guy like that game isn't going to do anything for him. He has too many underlying issues that need to be corrected first. But even a guy like that can occasionally get laid if he's in a band or has identified some very specific niche for himself to operate in and generate some microfame. I think that's what Roosh was talking about.

[DBCooper]

(03-20-2013 04:05 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 04:02 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

So what is your plan to combat that?

Bounce.

2013 is all about getting as big as possible since my age is catching up with me and you can't gain muscle forever.

Then I'm peacing out.

'2013 is all about getting as big as possible' haha, nice one. I might use that as a sig or at least a mantra. The impact looking big in clothes (and obviously out of) has on girls is well-documented but no less significant.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I completely with the thoughts listed in this thread... yet what alternative is there to men? Eternal celibacy? Since learning Game is not at odds with doing any other kind of improvement (i.e. bodybuilding, earning money, earning status), I can imagine no situation in which learning game would be better than not learning it.

[NYJ]

Game is like driving a car with a lot of power. If you can't do anything with it, it's a waste. No matter how books you read or threads in this forum, if you can't even say 3 words without stuttering, you dress badly, and are terribly out of shape all the game knowledge in the world aint going to work.

[germanico]

(03-20-2013 04:02 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Life is a Game. Not just some little tricks you can learn on the Internet.

To everyone else: please stop equating "game" with "some lines and tricks I downloaded from the internet"

[DVY]

(03-20-2013 04:33 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 04:11 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 04:07 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Donde?

That's the challenge.

Unlike you and others, I hate traveling. So I'd want to put in "roots" for 6-12 months.

I also like a lot of "gay" stuff like art museums, fine dining, and walkable cities.

So I don't know.

(I also happen to be in a place that I think my be perfect for me, so that factors in).

I guess the good thing is, the world is narrowing for me.

@MikeCF- Ever thought about putting roots in 2 different areas? Most playboy-friendly metropolitan cities have terrible climates at least 50% of the year. Monsoon, subzero winters, itchy hot 100% humidity summers, etc etc.

@G-manifesto- Whats your "perfect place"? Whats your checklist?

Also, this quote may apply to the western world fully, but go anywhere in Asia and "game" will take you very far. "Game" will make you a semi-celebrity.

[Mage]

I am confused now. I have always thought that Game IS social skills.

I agree however that Game alone is not enough. But so is money, fitness, playing an instrument etc. A man mast develop himself holistically.

[MikeCF]

Quote:

@MikeCF- Ever thought about putting roots in 2 different areas? Most playboy-friendly metropolitan cities have terrible climates at least 50% of the year. Monsoon, subzero winters, itchy hot 100% humidity summers, etc etc.

I like having an "off season." I don't have the high energy and extraversion of G and a lot of you other guys. Not a "growing old thing," either. Was the same way in college.

1-2 nights a week out for me is plenty.

Weeks without going out...common.

Introversion.

[germanico]

(03-21-2013 02:06 AM)Mage Wrote:  

I am confused now. I have always thought that Game IS social skills.

To me, "game" means a set of beliefs, attitudes and conducts. And this set is what will allow you to reach your goals, or impede you from getting them

Beliefs: things you know to be true.

Attitudes: how you react to external events or circumstances.

Conducts: your actions, things you actually do.

If your beliefs dictate that you need to spit some memorized lines in order to get laid, that might work. But the attitude behind that is usually that what you actually have to say is not enough, so you end up going home alone to masturbate, because women seldom like someone who is "not enough" (would you?)

If your attitude is that women are "bitches" that need to be "put down" and that you have to "bring them down to your level", then your conduct will be one of aggression and resentment, something that is very rarely attractive to women.

This applies to everything in life. Say you want to make some money, but your belief is that money is something that you "get" if you are lucky in life, your attitude is one where money = evil, and your conduct is one of "spend it while you have it". You will never have money that way.

[MikeCF]

(03-20-2013 04:52 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

I took that passage to be in reference to basically the bottom 20% of men. These are the guys who have serious problems preventing them from getting women, like being straight up morbidly obese, socially retarded or having severe confidence/anxiety issues. Just teaching a guy like that game isn't going to do anything for him. He has too many underlying issues that need to be corrected first. But even a guy like that can occasionally get laid if he's in a band or has identified some very specific niche for himself to operate in and generate some microfame. I think that's what Roosh was talking about.

Nah, man, look around.

We like to bitch about American women...But look at men, too.

An androgynous guy (40% of men? More?) can't learn game.

He has to rebuild himself from the bottom up. His whole life is fucked up.

It's sad, man. I feel bad for the guys under 26.

[poutsara]

(03-20-2013 04:02 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Life is a Game.

Good points on this thread. I would say "game" as it is read to be a set of behaviors or tricks etc can get a very average guy quantity but not so much quality.

I like what many say here that the real game is really about getting the most out of life. I call this "game" sealing in your fundamentals. Here are mine:
- stay close to your family they are on your team
- exercise, eat right
- choose a career or business and be the best at it
- don't talk about your problems just solve them quietly
- travel if that's your thing if not find what is and pursue it
- prioritize your sex life so you get what you want from it
- keep strong friends
- don't take things seriously because in the end everyone just dies