[godofwar]

to OP, it matters a shit load.

the current girl i'm banging is a law student, totally defines herself as an intellectual; her past boyfriends/fuck buddies were intellectuals.

later, she told me when she first met she just saw my muscles (i was wearing a loose tank). i didn't seduce with her with my intellect, even though thats what she claims her values are. she told me straight up (later)... she was scared. she was intimidated. she wanted me to love her. that was her primal nature. it fucking took over.

the way i got her was fucking caveman. i attempted to pull down her pants probably around 50 times. from hour 1 to finally closing many hours (and a few days) later. she was laughing and smiling the whole time, but literally fighting me to keep her pants on the whole time. when i finally said enough is enough and put 100% muscular effort into getting her naked/ practically raping her... she loved it.

intellectual/smintillictual. all girls love muscles.

[Sebastian]

how about guys putting a lot of efforts but not muscular at all?
(runners, cyclists, rock climbers, skiers)
Would they be crushed by some average gym boy when it comes to a game?

[Tuthmosis]

(03-18-2013 01:38 PM)dotbiz Wrote:  

breast muscles

[Moreless]

I walked up to a bar this weekend (first bar of the night) and this chick opened me because of my looks and the way I carried myself. I changed venues with her then took her home for the bang.

All I needed was Fuck Up Avoidance Game my gym time did the rest

[GenJx]

what clothes are the best for showing off gym gains?

[WestCoast]

(03-18-2013 10:35 PM)GenJx Wrote:  

what clothes are the best for showing off gym gains?

Wife beater.

Don't be acting like a dick when you're shredded though, smile talk to everyone be happy at all times. Now they wonder hmm he doesn't seem like an asshole "I have been taught to believe all yolked out dudes are dicks". Wreck that belief system. You're now interesting + fun + in shape = iRapes begin.

[Nascimento]

(03-18-2013 10:35 PM)GenJx Wrote:  

what clothes are the best for showing off gym gains?

Fitted V necks. These are good fits:
http://cdn.is.bluefly.com/mgen/Bluefly/p...height=480

http://cdna.lystit.com/photos/2011/09/14..._flex.jpeg

These are bad fits:
http://static.theiconic.com.au/p/Lonsdal...roduct.jpg

http://photos.amazingsocks.com/300/777x-...xl-3xl.jpg

[Screwston]

^^Do American Eagle and Express make good fitted v necks?

[WestCoast]

(03-19-2013 12:01 AM)houston Wrote:  

^^Do American Eagle and Express make good fitted v necks?

Depends on your build, you want a relatively deep v depending on your chest/shoulders ratio. If you have massive broad shoulders wife beaters will be better than a V. If you have a large chest and less shoulder, you will get a better reaction from a V.

Overall if you're cut to shreds = more skin better
If you are "built and big" v-neck + Henley sweaters are your go to items. Henleys are probably the best "I'm showing off but not" for winter weather.

Quality wise express is fine. Hard to give advice on brands without the chest/waist measurements though.

[memcpy]

whats even better than a v-neck are henly shirts, imo.
Don't button the henly leave the shit open, showing off those cuts for the sluts.

I buy the really thin ones in plain colors. It hugs my muscles. I also work out in them too. Can be worn in the summer , winter, etc.

If you wear them often it's better to let them air dry because they will shrink and the seems get torn easy.








how NOT to wear a henley , dude looks even more shrimpy.

[ElJefe]

(03-18-2013 10:55 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 10:29 AM)ComebackKid Wrote:  

I've seen maybe 3 guys on this forum commenting on how elite body affects the game (MikeCF, Virgle Kent and some guy I can't remember who posted his pics in impressive physique thread), others seemed to have different opinions, but did not have first hand experience. Who here has elite body (by elite I mean muscular and low bodyfat with abs and v lines, from lean to bulky)? How does it affect your game? And what were your experiences as you acquired elite physique?

I got laid purely based on body for saint patty's day. You can ask DVY or Gio, about the "lol" funny messages I got post coitous.

Not having an elite body is obscene. When you are young you want to look good shirtless and not good in a long-sleeve T (assuming you're not roided up).

Long story short, do you turn your head more when you see a girl with C cups or A cups. Yeah no matter what you're head is turning on a girl with a banging body.

Women are just as shallow as men. More so.

Maybe not you, but people in general, who do not want to max out their own physique and want "proof" are usually pussy losers who want to rationalize why they don't "need a body".

Okay so you don't need one, but that's like saying to you don't "need" money to get laid. It's not like having a million dollars is going to get you laid when you walk out the door but sure as shit is better than being a broke ass dude.

Not having a body = literally like saying money doesn't matter. Alright cool, guess we should be broke.

It will help you immensely, it is also free, it is also good for you, I see no reason not to lift weights like a monster. It's just excuses. The gains get harder but over the last year going from "good to excellent" in terms of aesthetics is mind boggling. Again if people are not asking you for advise at the gym, you're not there yet.

As a final, if a girl is not telling you "you have a really nice body" post sex, you're not at that level yet. You should get eye fucked by guys and girls in a wife beater or shirtless, it commands attention and respect.

Ask yourself, "would I fuck this guy?" Not make love and have two and a half kids, would I fuck this guy? If no that's a problem.

I decided to read this thread from the beginning.

I'm about 20lbs of fat and 10-15lbs of muscle from what I consider elite, and I lift decent numbers and have momentum going right now that'll put me into "elite" category as far as lifting weights goes, within a few months.

It's not free.

It takes hours and hours of work, patient work, that could be used on leisure, stocking up, reading, bettering yourself in so many other ways. It also costs a shitload of time in learning and reading your body. So it's a major investment. But I agree the payoff is worth it.

I do not consider myself a hard worker, but I've put a lot more effort into lifting than a lot of people I know. The harder I work, the more I understand people who can't be bothered.

If you're not juicing, it's a long-ass haul.

I will readily admit I regret not being this diligent about my lifting when I was 17. My 1RM was 240lbs back then. Makes me cry when I think of the seven years where I did nothing to keep moving forward.

But yeah... it's not free. But is it worth it? Definitely.

[funkyzeit]

Being jacked helps a lot, of course. Then you develop body dysmorphia like me and dream about steroids every day. If bitches can use estrogen in ridiculous amounts (pills, soy, etc.) and if our products at markets are packed with that shit then I can use test without guilt. When I get the money for it of course.

[Nascimento]

Personally I see wife beaters as a very tough item to pull off. I would not wear them unless it was strictly a hot summer day, and during the day only.

Having said that, I can not attest to having wore them at night clubs. I am not that jacked (yet) but when I get there I might try it just to see what kind of reaction it gets, maybe.

Those henleys look good, I want to get some.

[Hencredible Casanova]

I don't have an "elite" body but I would guess since I workout and have muscles that the way you feel about yourself affects your game. Fitness definitely has an effect on one's self-esteem and confidence (I think). But I don't think being a meathead in and of itself will help you get laid. Plenty of those at my gym and I can tell off top some of those dudes aren't pulling. Also, some of the guys I know who spend a lot of time and energy into fitness (moreso than game and going out) tend to pull average quality chicks.

I also think only a female (or possibly a gay man) can evaluate male attractiveness. Too many times I've seen the most unlikely of guys pull good quality consistently. Of any guy I know, the dude I know who gets laid the most doesn't even workout (at all) and doesn't have an "elite" body. He has money and charisma and can talk his ass off though.

[WestCoast]

(03-19-2013 08:04 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I don't have an "elite" body but I would guess since I workout and have muscles that the way you feel about yourself affects your game. Fitness definitely has an effect on one's self-esteem and confidence (I think). But I don't think being a meathead in and of itself will help you get laid. Plenty of those at my gym and I can tell off top some of those dudes aren't pulling. Also, some of the guys I know who spend a lot of time and energy into fitness (moreso than game and going out) tend to pull average quality chicks.

I also think only a female (or possibly a gay man) can evaluate male attractiveness. Too many times I've seen the most unlikely of guys pull good quality consistently. Of any guy I know, the dude I know who gets laid the most doesn't even workout (at all) and doesn't have an "elite" body. He has money and charisma and can talk his ass off though.

Agree with some of these points and not others.

Agree:
1. 100% agree on no talking game + vibe you will get no pussy. It's actually worse to go from no game to nice body to learning game because you have to be more congruent. If you slip up with you look shredded like all hell people will assume you're a cocky d-bag, there is less room for error on hello than there is for an average dude.
2. Yes your confidence goes up, because you also get checked out more, but you have to have the social skills and awareness to know when you step to her if she thinks you're cute or not already. As an example, zyzz's flamboyant personality would never attract a woman if she thinks you're over 30. You're immature. But if you act like a clean cut handsome guy who "doesn't realize" he is shredded to bits she is going to wet herself on hello when you say "hey you know I just had to talk to you because you looked so (happy/sad/whatever) today". Zyzz "rager" personality is only going to work for a dude in his 20's. Acceptable to be an off the wall party animal.

Disagree:
I think you can learn to judge a man's looks without being a homosexual. Plastic surgeons learn to do it, they are male, why can't you learn? Study the human face, over lay the sides of your face. Measure your body parts. I always ask if you can't judge a man's looks how in the world do you improve on your own? This is a "no-homo" comment obviously but the last thing I care about is if people think I am a homo because I'm able to judge a man's looks. That's a huge advantage to me. (Cocky comment coming I have correctly guessed the ethnicity, height and age bracket of every single forum member I've met based on typing style alone, you can triangulate). Also made some assumptions about people who have met other people on these forums and those assumptions were also correct.

With all the d-bag bracketed comments I just made, again there is no reason to not get at least to a strong healthy body. Some people do have better genetics, but 99.9% of people are simply under achieving. The best barometer for "elite" is if you can go through a leg workout and "feel drunk".

Another good barometer is when you over hear people snickering "I bet that guy does steroids" knowing they are wrong. That's the best complement ever, it means they think your body is unattainable.

To hammer the point home, no game + look roided up is WORSE than no game + average looking. The same concept is applies to rich people, if they even give you a whiff that they are judging you for being poor the girl/guy will loathe you. This is also why people are "surprised" when they meet a celebrity who is "nice". They always say "omg he was so nice!", because if you are seen as elite from hello they have the negative image that you are a dick. This is he mindset of average women/men.


@ Eljefe I still think it's free! You elongate the fun part of your life by decreasing the rate at which you age. We're splitting hairs bro, ha!

[Hencredible Casanova]

WestCoast - I don't think you made d-bag/cocky comments at all. Just your observation. I think Roosh once made that point that male attractiveness is not universal while female attractiveness generally is. I believe that to be true.

Again, it's difficult to evaluate what females find attractive as there's so much variation from one female partner to the next. I've also been with attractive chicks who have dated guys who look nothing like me (different race, station in life, body type, etc).

It's pretty common to see a hot girl with guys who don't remotely resemble the A-List Hollywood types many people think you have to look like to get good quality lays.

I also don't see how having an "elite" body vs. being generally fit or what have you would affect game in, say, a New York winter. How would any female really tell the difference?

I'm sure it doesn't hurt but it's hard to see how it's as consequential as some are making it out to be. But, as I said, I don't have an "elite" body

[gandt]

(03-19-2013 08:04 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I don't have an "elite" body but I would guess since I workout and have muscles that the way you feel about yourself affects your game. Fitness definitely has an effect on one's self-esteem and confidence (I think). But I don't think being a meathead in and of itself will help you get laid. Plenty of those at my gym and I can tell off top some of those dudes aren't pulling. Also, some of the guys I know who spend a lot of time and energy into fitness (moreso than game and going out) tend to pull average quality chicks.

I also think only a female (or possibly a gay man) can evaluate male attractiveness. Too many times I've seen the most unlikely of guys pull good quality consistently. Of any guy I know, the dude I know who gets laid the most doesn't even workout (at all) and doesn't have an "elite" body. He has money and charisma and can talk his ass off though.

Okay why not, I'll throw in my two cents. My opinion on the matter is the following:

"owning your shit" > elite physique

Similar to Casanova, the guys I know that get laid the most do not have elite bodies by any stretch of the word and I guarantee they don't not even spend a single moment of their lives thinking about it.

In the eyes of a woman; a man who "owns his shit" in the sense that he requires ZERO validation from anyone other than HIMSELF is far more attractive than someone who goes to the gym to make themselves more attractive to women. Will some women not even talk to you if you don't look jacked? Sure. Maybe there are a few women who are only attracted to muscular men and I do not think it would hurt these guys to be fit. But the point is that the attitude of "owning your shit" independent of what others think is FAR more sexy to a woman than any amount of weight lifting.

I personally am pretty cut from constantly playing sports all my life and doing moderate weight lifting. But I often go on streaks of partying and drinking, sprinkled with 5am McDonalds fine dining without going to the gym. In no way does this affect my game because I don't really care about the validation of other and have worked hard to achieve this mentality. If I do go to the gym it is to work on my cardio to make my heart stronger so I am a healthier individual. Or moderate weight lifting to get the cut soccer player look that I personally like. Nothing I do has anything to do with impressing lizards for beach 2013.

[rudebwoy]

The famous line that I have heard a few times from females is "I don't like a guy with too much muscles or a guy that is too big", this is BS of course because chances are they have never dated a guy like this. On a deeper level, a lot of girls are insecure about their bodies and don't want a guy that will make them feel more insecure.
No one is saying that every girl requires a guy with a good build, quite the opposite if the truth be told. I find it is a personal thing for me, I just want to look better than the next guy. The whole if I look good, then I feel good and women pick up on that.

[MikeinMKE]

(03-18-2013 01:38 PM)dotbiz Wrote:  

On a serious note:

When I was at my best I had girls wanting to touch my arms or breast muscles. Please note, that was only during interaction when I had them already approached.

But this usually only happened when I weared T-shirts like all the other guys. I usually prefer to wear at least a slim-fit shirt, but even with rolled-up and fitted sleeves your biceps won't be noticed that much.

Also IMHO it doesn't give you that much of an edge since approx. 1/3 of all guys is in shape. At least at the clubs where I go.

Because of an injury right now I'm coming back from a 6 month absence of training. Lost plenty of weight (muscles) during that time and it's very frustrating to come back, especially since the injury (shoulders) probably won't let me get back to where I was.

Try that msm glucosamine condroitin - magic in a bottle

[WestCoast]

(03-19-2013 09:40 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

The famous line that I have heard a few times from females is "I don't like a guy with too much muscles or a guy that is too big", this is BS of course because chances are they have never dated a guy like this. On a deeper level, a lot of girls are insecure about their bodies and don't want a guy that will make them feel more insecure.
No one is saying that every girl requires a guy with a good build, quite the opposite if the truth be told. I find it is a personal thing for me, I just want to look better than the next guy. The whole if I look good, then I feel good and women pick up on that.

Yep. Also people don't realize they are not making fair comparisons. What I mean by this is most guys at the gym actually have no game because guys have no game in general and going to the gym more than gaming is in fact weakening their game. So if we assume a girl has a choice between a guy with game or a guy with game + A banging body it's a no brainer who wins that battle.

Another example is guys who have to have a banging body to get laid dont have the best facial features. Facial features are more important so you can have a shit body but a 10x better face and you are more attractive than a guy with a 5 face and a 10 body. So if one can't tell what an attracive male face is by default it's now impossible to tell how attractive a man is. No? (Ie: if you're admitting you can't tell if a man has a pretty face how can you separate the impact of a banging body?) is the point I'm attempting to make here.

This should be a dead giveaway that my facial features are not that great.

In terms of Roosh saying attrativenes is not universal for girls, I have to 100% disagree. Women fall in love in their mind, with their instincts as a quick check, and the mind can be trained to believe anything. That's a whole different tangent and deserves a long post.

But back to getting a body, if you are a 9 face wise it doesn't matter as long as you are not a fat fuck. If you are a 5, you are stupid not to hit the gym, if you ever want to pull 7+'s regularly.

[Timoteo]

(03-19-2013 09:40 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

The famous line that I have heard a few times from females is "I don't like a guy with too much muscles or a guy that is too big

I think when women say this, they're really talking about bodybuilder-types. Guys that are freakishly big. They aren't talking about a guy that's got a little bit of size and cuts.

[thegmanifesto]

What I want to know is this:

How does reading Bang Iceland effect "Henly" Shirts?®

[Kish]

I have a better question.

When will Western men become so feminized that they start wearing makeup?

5 yrs? 10 yrs? 20 yrs?

[Menace]

South Korean men already wear makeup, if we are to believe: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/korean-men...34289.html

It may only be a matter of time before the marketing and makeup companies come up with some way to do it without making it seem gay.

[Moreless]

(03-19-2013 10:18 AM)rakishness Wrote:  

I have a better question.

When will Western men become so feminized that they start wearing makeup?

5 yrs? 10 yrs? 20 yrs?

Will you adapt your game to makeup or become dust in the wind when it's the norm?

That's the true question ^