[Nomad77]

I have a friend that I have been trying to help with women for awhile now. Last night I took him to downtown Brickell Irish Club for the crazy St. Patrick day. As we were waiting in the line to get in, these two girls walked up behind us: an American blonde (7) and a Latin woman (3). I immediately noticed the blonde checking out my friend and sure enough she started talking to him right away. At some point, he stopped talking and I told him, she didn't talk to you by mistake - keep talking. I pushed him back into the set. I started talking to her short, ugly Latin friend. At the door, the doorman asked the Latin woman how many was in the group: she said, two - bitch! The American woman immediately corrected her and told him four. We went in and they went to the bathroom. I told him, it doesn't get easier than this. When was the last time you saw a girl started talking to me? When they came back they stopped a short distance from us. I told him to go and start talking to the blonde again but he just couldn't do it. As I sat there thinking about this I finally realized something. No amount of Game could help Fred. Before Fred could pick up any women he had to pick himself up first. Fred was a damaged/broken man and before he could apply any Game he was taught he had to fix himself up first.

I have a feeling that there are lot of damaged/broken men out there like Fred. They have been beaten down by the society over the years to the point they have lost almost all of their self-confidence and self-esteem. Sure, he puts on a good show. He's not fat but could lose some weight. He dresses decently, while older, still look decent. But inside he's a wreck. Trying to teach Game to these guys is like trying to teach basketball to a guy that can't even run up and down the court without grasping for air. The foundation of all Game is the person. If the person doesn't feel good about themselves for whatever reason - no amount of Game will help.

[PrimeTime32]

I agree with your statement completely I was the same was until about 3 months ago. The only thing I can recommend is to keep encouraging him and hopefully he will get out of his funk.

[Menace]

It goes without saying that you can't be a sad sack on the inside. Most communication is non-verbal, so if he's trying "game" but feels like a loser it's going to come off inauthentic and he will fail. Also, you have to WANT to talk to girls. You have to WANT to escalate and close. Game cannot fix any of that. Without the basic desire to put his dick inside her, game is utterly pointless. Moreover, I think more desire can compensate for weaker game to a greater extent than stronger game can compensate for weaker desire.

[Nomad77]

Yep, unfortunately, I am not a psychiatrist. I don't really know how to help him fix his personal problems even though I understand the source of them...

[Moma]

The person has to want change. It's about like trying to get a junkie off of drugs, if they don't want it themselves, they will run right back to the syringe or the pipe the moment you stop holding their hand.

It took me a certain point back in the day to get into the swing of things. I never rolled with a big crew so I never had cats to fall back on when chopping lizards.
It was me absorbing all the brunt of self doubt. I also was never a drinker so all my stuff was raw and sober.

I came to a point however when I thought there is nothing worse that could happen.
I was actually working in a supermarket at the time and manning the registers.
A pretty moreno came in, very prissy looking and was doing her shopping. I said to myself, fuk it, I'm going to put my bid in.
I rang up her shyt and she gave me the cash.
I said "Also, in addition, I will need your number as well"
She said "No, thanks" and walked out.
I laughed internally because the pressure was much greater than the actuality and I realised that I was paralysing myself on needless fear.
99 percent of the time, either she says "Yes" or she says "No".

That's it. It's exactly like sales. You can have all the techniques in the world but if you don't go out and start marketing your product, you will DEFINITELY have Nos.
Only you can determine the yes's.

It's really that simple.

I know guys that will leap into fights with dangerous men but freeze up like snowmen when it comes to talking to a 110 pound lizard.

Go figure.

[ozzyyooo]

(03-17-2013 01:42 PM)Moma Wrote:  

The person has to want change. It's about like trying to get a junkie off of drugs, if they don't want it themselves, they will run right back to the syringe or the pipe the moment you stop holding their hand.

It took me a certain point back in the day to get into the swing of things. I never rolled with a big crew so I never had cats to fall back on when chopping lizards.
It was me absorbing all the brunt of self doubt. I also was never a drinker so all my stuff was raw and sober.

I came to a point however when I thought there is nothing worse that could happen.
I was actually working in a supermarket at the time and manning the registers.
A pretty moreno came in, very prissy looking and was doing her shopping. I said to myself, fuk it, I'm going to put my bid in.
I rang up her shyt and she gave me the cash.
I said "Also, in addition, I will need your number as well"
She said "No, thanks" and walked out.
I laughed internally because the pressure was much greater than the actuality and I realised that I was paralysing myself on needless fear.
99 percent of the time, either she says "Yes" or she says "No".

That's it. It's exactly like sales. You can have all the techniques in the world but if you don't go out and start marketing your product, you will DEFINITELY have Nos.
Only you can determine the yes's.

It's really that simple.

I know guys that will leap into fights with dangerous men but freeze up like snowmen when it comes to talking to a 110 pound lizard.

Go figure.

i would introduce him to forums like this and naughtynomad. they have really changed the way i view the art of picking up women.

[placer]

(03-17-2013 12:39 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Before Fred could pick up any women he had to pick himself up first. Fred was a damaged/broken man and before he could apply any Game he was taught he had to fix himself up first.

I was Fred for too many years. There were girls left and right practically throwing themselves in to my bed and I was instead getting oneitis with bitches who wouldn't give me or anyone else the time of day.

I didn't take the red pill until I was 37, and even then I couldn't stop my oneitis with a friendzone girl until I finally broke in to enough social circles to get laid.

The psychological hang-up I had to let go of was the notion that there is only one girl out there who was "my one and only". I also had to realize we aren't dating like we did in the 1950s any more. If you want to get married today, you get on the girl's cock carousel, stay there a while, then propose to her.

Trust me: If Fred takes the red pill and starts learning game, he will be getting laid within a year. If he can shortcut that by fucking a fat chick, he will be scoring hot ass within six months--I have a lot of player friends who started off with a fat or ugly chick.

[Matt3B]

(03-17-2013 01:42 PM)Moma Wrote:  

The person has to want change. It's about like trying to get a junkie off of drugs, if they don't want it themselves, they will run right back to the syringe or the pipe the moment you stop holding their hand.

Probably the most important factor about game. You have to want it, and it's the same with going out and approaching. I've had days where I've gone out to pick up girls, got out there and not done anything. I've really, really wanted it recently and have been approaching all the time so it's become almost second nature when I see a girl I really want that something inside automatically pushes me to them.

Going back to Nomad's post, what "Fred" will find if he starts delving into the manosphere and how to pick up women is that his inner game will improve without realising it. Before I started, I was depressed and self conscious all the time. I still have the same issues about my appearance but game has taught me not to give a fuck about my insecurities with myself and to blitz on anyway. Seeing how looks don't affect a girl's opinion of you as much as you think it would has really aided me in this.

I would say though, if he's shown an interest and he's your mate, don't force everything onto him. Help him focus on the areas he thinks he needs to develop first before he's comfortable doing what he's afraid of now. I was very much the same when I first learned of game, I was bone thin and didn't want to approach girls. As I was going to the gym and bulking up I found my desire for it was increasing. Test the waters with him every now and then by trying to push him into something, but help him see a change in himself first and he will respond better.

That's what I think, anyway.

[Nomad77]

He knows about the forum but never joined. He is just feeling down on himself in general.

[Matt3B]

About what, specifically?

[Ovid]

I think a big part of inner game is seeing what's possible. Unless a guy has had his balls cut off, he most likely wants to fuck women, just like we do. He just believes that he's unattractive, uninteresting to girls, and 'not cut out to be a player.' He most likely rationalizes that every guy he sees doing well with the ladies is 'a natural,' and that he obviously is not one, since he is paralyzed with fear whenever a girl looks his way. Finally, he probably suffers under the blue-pill delusion that game "only works on trashy young sluts," and that because he wants one nice girl, he needs to perfect his nice-guy image and betafy himself more, instead of his cocky slut-catching game.

Of course, in reality game works on all girls, is practically a necessity today in the West if a man does not want to die a virgin, and is a skill that can be learned with some time and solid practice.

[placer]

(03-17-2013 03:58 PM)Ovid Wrote:  

He most likely rationalizes that every guy he sees doing well with the ladies is 'a natural,' and that he obviously is not one

Exactly! When I was an Omega, I thought my innate nature was to be someone unattractive to girls, and that I did not deserve to have sex with a girl. I did not realize that there were things I could do to become someone girls wanted to fuck.

[germanico]

What do you mean by "game"?

What is your definition of game?

If by "game" you mean techniques and strategies, then no.

If by game you mean getting his shit together, then yes, having "game" would sure be enough for him to overcome his fears.

[speakeasy]

I think you can sum this up by saying that inner game must come before outer game.

[Pacesetter20]

(03-17-2013 12:39 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

I have a friend that I have been trying to help with women for awhile now. Last night I took him to downtown Brickell Irish Club for the crazy St. Patrick day. As we were waiting in the line to get in, these two girls walked up behind us: an American blonde (7) and a Latin woman (3). I immediately noticed the blonde checking out my friend and sure enough she started talking to him right away. At some point, he stopped talking and I told him, she didn't talk to you by mistake - keep talking. I pushed him back into the set. I started talking to her short, ugly Latin friend. At the door, the doorman asked the Latin woman how many was in the group: she said, two - bitch! The American woman immediately corrected her and told him four. We went in and they went to the bathroom. I told him, it doesn't get easier than this. When was the last time you saw a girl started talking to me? When they came back they stopped a short distance from us. I told him to go and start talking to the blonde again but he just couldn't do it. As I sat there thinking about this I finally realized something. No amount of Game could help Fred. Before Fred could pick up any women he had to pick himself up first. Fred was a damaged/broken man and before he could apply any Game he was taught he had to fix himself up first.

I have a feeling that there are lot of damaged/broken men out there like Fred. They have been beaten down by the society over the years to the point they have lost almost all of their self-confidence and self-esteem. Sure, he puts on a good show. He's not fat but could lose some weight. He dresses decently, while older, still look decent. But inside he's a wreck. Trying to teach Game to these guys is like trying to teach basketball to a guy that can't even run up and down the court without grasping for air. The foundation of all Game is the person. If the person doesn't feel good about themselves for whatever reason - no amount of Game will help.

I like this post. I see some of myself in Fred, I've spent close to four of the past eight years "away from society" and I can attest it takes time to get your mind/soul back in the Game, regardless of your actual skill level.

[Ensam]

A few years of therapy can do wonders for that kind of thing. It's expensive but worth it. But you still need Game and having some cursory knowledge of Game can help cut through a therapists blue pill tinted glasses. I had a breakdown around the time I started grad school and did 3 years of weekly and then biweekly therapy. It really fixed my inner game but it wasn't until I started studying Game in more depth that I actually started taking girls home on a regular basis.

[Northern]

(03-17-2013 01:20 PM)Menace Wrote:  

It goes without saying that you can't be a sad sack on the inside. Most communication is non-verbal, so if he's trying "game" but feels like a loser it's going to come off inauthentic and he will fail. Also, you have to WANT to talk to girls. You have to WANT to escalate and close. Game cannot fix any of that. Without the basic desire to put his dick inside her, game is utterly pointless. Moreover, I think more desire can compensate for weaker game to a greater extent than stronger game can compensate for weaker desire.

How do you guys motivate yourself? I often feel that it all requires way too much effort for too little reward I got my first ONS a couple of days ago and even that did not make me feel excited. I felt like "what's the big deal about it?"

[Nomad77]

(03-17-2013 03:48 PM)MattC Wrote:  

About what, specifically?

He has a couple of personal issues. He has some family related problems. Feels he's getting old, his job is going nowhere etc.

[Nomad77]

(03-17-2013 09:54 PM)Northern Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 01:20 PM)Menace Wrote:  

It goes without saying that you can't be a sad sack on the inside. Most communication is non-verbal, so if he's trying "game" but feels like a loser it's going to come off inauthentic and he will fail. Also, you have to WANT to talk to girls. You have to WANT to escalate and close. Game cannot fix any of that. Without the basic desire to put his dick inside her, game is utterly pointless. Moreover, I think more desire can compensate for weaker game to a greater extent than stronger game can compensate for weaker desire.

How do you guys motivate yourself? I often feel that it all requires way too much effort for too little reward I got my first ONS a couple of days ago and even that did not make me feel excited. I felt like "what's the big deal about it?"

I have a feeling that's exactly how Fred feels. That life is not worth it in general.

[TheRookie]

Western society is emasculating, so until he lets go of the pretty lies society holds as true, Fred will be emasculated.

Seems like a lot of other societies are more honest with their men on the ways of the world and of women.

[Nomad77]

Oh, he's taken the red pill. He has no illusions but that's exactly the problem. Reality can be tough to face sometimes.

[G Trooper]

(03-17-2013 09:54 PM)Northern Wrote:  

How do you guys motivate yourself? I often feel that it all requires way too much effort for too little reward I got my first ONS a couple of days ago and even that did not make me feel excited. I felt like "what's the big deal about it?"

What did she look like? Hot new pussy is fantastic motivation.

[Hotwheels]

I saw zero game in the OP,but rather a guy that couldn't even run don't fuck it up game.

Inner game is a misnomer. Anyone outside the PUA "community" calls it confidence.

Your friend has none.

[Nomad77]

Pretty harsh statement Hotwheels, were you there or have we met before or you are inferring this from the post?

[Hotwheels]

Since I said "I saw zero game in the OP" it would be safe to assume I deduced that from your Original Post.

The only other possible angle is your friend was not attracted to her, which apparently was not the case.