[DBCooper]

I've noticed there's a fair few British blokes on the forum and was hoping we could get some political discussion going.

From my point of view the general political stance of the forum errs towards the right with some moderate/libertarian views for good measure. This suits me just fine, and a debate about politics without the usual PC crap non-red pill folks spout would be a nice change of pace.

Just some ideas:-

Cameron: What do you think of him and the Conservatives in general? Are the cuts in the right places or will they just spiral us into deeper recession?

Labour: Is there still love for Old Labour, standing up for the working class bloke without the liberal guilt and homogenization of modern Labour?

The BNP and other far right groups: Is Nick Griffin a fascist or do some of his ideas carry weight. I'm not talking about white supremacy here, far from it, but more about tough stances on crime, immigrants etc.

Europe: Do UKIP have a point? The EU is a very 'forward thinking' establishment which by default means liberal. Is this necessarily a bad thing for this country?

I'm no expert, but I'm informed enough to make discussion and debate in equal measure.

Fire away.

Edit: This isn't just for the British lads, anyone with knowledge of British politics it'd be good to hear from you.

[Woodward]

(03-09-2013 06:36 PM)DBCooper Wrote:  

I've noticed there's a fair few British blokes on the forum and was hoping we could get some political discussion going.

From my point of view the general political stance of the forum errs towards the right with some moderate/libertarian views for good measure. This suits me just fine, and a debate about politics without the usual PC crap non-red pill folks spout would be a nice change of pace.

Just some ideas:-

Cameron: What do you think of him and the Conservatives in general? Are the cuts in the right places or will they just spiral us into deeper recession?

Labour: Is there still love for Old Labour, standing up for the working class bloke without the liberal guilt and homogenization of modern Labour?

The BNP and other far right groups: Is Nick Griffin a fascist or do some of his ideas carry weight. I'm not talking about white supremacy here, far from it, but more about tough stances on crime, immigrants etc.

Europe: Do UKIP have a point? The EU is a very 'forward thinking' establishment which by default means liberal. Is this necessarily a bad thing for this country?

I'm no expert, but I'm informed enough to make discussion and debate in equal measure.

Fire away.

Edit: This isn't just for the British lads, anyone with knowledge of British politics it'd be good to hear from you.

Cameron - Cameron seems like a decent bloke but as a party the Tories are a bunch of corrupt bunch of cunts in bed with Murdoch and big business. They're a bit extreme with their cuts - they're basically gutting the NHS & trying to privatise it. George Osbourne is a total fuckup as a chancellor.

Labour - "New Labour" gave up supporting the common man. They're as bad as the Tories in my opinion. They fucked up UK is various ways e.g. signing the Human Rights Act - it doesn't give the UK the right to deport undesirables like militant Islamists. These guys always go to European HR courts and manage to extend their stay in the UK.

They also fucked up with a mass increase in immigration:
Labour's 'secret plan' to lure migrants

My parents were immigrants to the UK, but I think there's too many people coming in. UK is a small island.

BNP - they're a joke. They're racist and anti-Islamic. If they managed to kick the Muslims out, they'd come for the blacks, Asians and Jews next. Fuck them.

Europe - trade with them, apart from that fuck them too. Don't need to EU to have any say in UK affairs. I think the UK should have a US style H1-B visa which only lets in the most skilled immigrants from Eastern Europe.

[tenderman100]

OK, as a Yank, and visitor to the island from time to time, let me ask you some questions -- loaded ones I admit, but questions nonetheless.

1. Do you think that fundamental characteristic of "Britishness" is being bled out of the culture because of the influx of immigrants who do not assimilate?

2. You know there are a bunch of radical Islamists in your midst. Do you like them there? Or if you had your druthers would you kick them out?

3. Has the welfare state in England gone too far?

4. What would you do about the rampant nature of public drunkeness?

[Woodward]

(03-10-2013 12:16 AM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

OK, as a Yank, and visitor to the island from time to time, let me ask you some questions -- loaded ones I admit, but questions nonetheless.

1. Do you think that fundamental characteristic of "Britishness" is being bled out of the culture because of the influx of immigrants who do not assimilate?

2. You know there are a bunch of radical Islamists in your midst. Do you like them there? Or if you had your druthers would you kick them out?

3. Has the welfare state in England gone too far?

4. What would you do about the rampant nature of public drunkeness?

1. Yes - but I don't blame the immigrants per se. A lot of the white British population has changed a lot over the last few years in terms of morals, and in a worse way in my opinion. I think this is due to feminism and a rise in single mothers. There's a lot of "White flight" whenever a lot of minorities come in. London is no longer majority white. The whites leave, and the areas become dominated by a specific ethnicity e.g. in London there are areas dominated by Indians, Pakistanis, Turks, Jews, Africans, etc. Can't see any whites moving back to those areas any time soon.

2. Kick the fuckers out - the foreign ones if you can. Can't do anything about it because of the Human Rights Act. As for the ones born and raised in the UK, ban the foreign preachers coming into UK and spreading their crap. These guys make up a tiny minority of Muslims BTW Most Muslims are just like everybody else.

3. Yes. I know for a fact that certain families game the system to gain free housing. If you're a teenage girl and you want free housing, have a kid...the govt will give you an apt.

4. I hate it, but that's a cultural issue..a lot of people are not raising their kids properly. I remember visiting Italy and seeing whole families out and about at 11pm in a town centre. This would be unthinkable in UK. Most UK town centres are a no go area for kids after 9pm.

[Echoes]

The Tories I despise, they're out to privatise everything they possibly can, tearing down institutions like the NHS that have been around for years and were set up by far greater and more noble men than David Cameron and his gang of inbred Oxbridge crooks. It really is a case of a government blatantly not giving a shit about 95% of it's population and seemingly actively working against them. The conservatives have always been loathsome throughout my lifetime and the fact anyone votes for them even after Thatcher annoys me. But then we have a large element of small-minded, little Englanders who naturally gravitate towards the Conservatives (see The Daily Mail, the world's most moronic paper).

I actually think things like the welfare state and the NHS are brilliant ideas we should be proud of, but they've been mis-managed, asset stripped and exploited for years. The amount of benefits dolled out to undeserving cases is ridiculous, especially when those who actually need and deserve that help are often failed by the system. In societal terms single Mums can bleed the system dry, there's a clear encouragement for girls to get pregnant, get a free house, take all the benefits on offer and basically contribute fuck-all. I knew several girls from school who just got pregnant early and then smoothly moved into living a much better life on the back of all those hand-out's - still partying and whoring around of course and often having rich boyfriends who didn't live with them because that would screw up their benefit claims. If you're looking for red-pill examples that's one right there, government hand-out's to be a whore basically.

Immigration, well you can't say every immigrant is a free-loader although plenty could be, I know folks who've moved over from Eastern Europe etc who work much harder and contribute far more to British society than some Brits. The character of Britain has changed so much anyway, from dignified reserve and self-respect to plain attention-seeking celebrity and binge drinking obsessed idiotcy, it would be foolish to blame everything on a foreign influx. British tabloid/reality TV culture is amongst the dumbest and most offensively stupid in the world. I can't say I've had any experience of 'radical Muslims' where I live, it's tends to be more an Eastern European influx and as I've said, frankly they're harder working and more pleasant to talk to than a lot of Brits.

Binge-drinking's just a part of British culture, it's pretty ugly but going down the pub and drinking away your problems has long been a British trait. It's just gone further and further over the years. Friday and Saturday nights in Town are horrid though, skanks staggering around, vomiting in the streets and frustrated chavs looking to brain you just for glancing in their direction. If you're watching from a distance it's actually pretty funny, watching two girls swinging their handbags around their heads like mace's before falling over can definitely be amusing.

[Nature Boy]

(03-10-2013 12:16 AM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

OK, as a Yank, and visitor to the island from time to time, let me ask you some questions -- loaded ones I admit, but questions nonetheless.

1. Do you think that fundamental characteristic of "Britishness" is being bled out of the culture because of the influx of immigrants who do not assimilate?

2. You know there are a bunch of radical Islamists in your midst. Do you like them there? Or if you had your druthers would you kick them out?

3. Has the welfare state in England gone too far?

4. What would you do about the rampant nature of public drunkeness?

1. This is hard to say. I was thinking about this and its hard to say what 'Britishness' is nowadays. We no longer have a clear defined role in the world any more. I think people often get wrapped up in an idea of Britain which is massively divorced from reality and only existed 100+ years ago. Having said that there is a massive resentment towards immigrants, but I feel this comes from nothing more than the fear of 'the other'.

2. I'd kick them out straight away. The problem with PC culture is that by preaching tolerance to all view points you naturally open the door for any kind of extremism. Not just a problem related to Islam but to all radicalism. I'd also agree about clamping down the radical preachers (again not just Muslim ones).

3. Fuck Clement Atlee. I think the welfare state is one of the biggest mistakes in British history. I'd go back to the days of the Victorian era, when charities like Bernado's would step in to take on responsibility for the poor. Then the state can focus its resources on more important areas.

4. This is a tricky one. I honestly think no one has a clue. I study a lot of British history, and we've had this reputation since the 11th Century when the French would say we're only good at drinking and boasting. The idea of going out on a Friday/Saturday night and binge drinking yourself into oblivion is so embedded in the culture its hard to see how this could change. But, I think a harder line taken by the police, with a healthy dash of police brutality might be a start.

@DBCooper
On the whole BNP thing. Basically Nick Griffin always comes across as an unlikable prick so its hard to take anything he says seriously. They only seem to gain any support in area like the North where I'm from, where people are more inclined to be (openly) racist. Also, I don't know what they as a party stand for, as they get shouted down, dismissed and written off in most of the media.

[Kitsune]

All the parties are the same - centre-left. Cameron is a fucking moron because he basically got in with one issue to solve: fix the economy.

Now, he's gone to war with the church, gay marriage, building a high speed rail network, cuddling with nick clegg. What does anyone care about? Fixing the economy. It isn't getting better, and all talks of a recovering economy are nullified when the recovery is due to cuts, i.e. completely jobless. Big cities are ticking over, but rurally the economy is knackered.

That isn't to say there shouldn't be cuts - most public services could do with being reformed. But the government is a bloated institution full of money-sucking parasites: They are the least well-equipped to deal with public cuts.

As far as the other stuff: UKIP, immigration etc. I think it's overplayed. I think UKIP are a necessary evil because Britain isn't really a socialist culture like Scandinavia, and all of the major parties are basically socialist. Until the major parties shuffle to the right a little, you'll have groups like UKIP. It won't surprise me to see them become the 3rd party next election. I'd shudder if they got any sort of power, but until then, it's no problem.

Immigration isn't really an issue. Immigration coupled with a refusal to integrate and handouts from the government to subsidise that non-integration is a problem. The latter needs to be sorted out, then the first will sort itself out. (i.e. once you stop giving handouts to people who hate the country, they won't come.)

I think the UK is a pretty anti-political country in general. I think most 'British Blokes' think of Government as a necessary evil. I'm certainly in that camp overall.

[dk902]

I think the country is in a death spiral.

The mass immigration and political correctness is eroding any sense of identity and community in Britain.

No one in the government wants to tackle the issue of immigration because it's controversial to do so. It's the elephant in the room.

The last government invited millions into the country in order to socially engineer the UK and guarantee themselves votes in the future.

British people have no problem with immigrants, if they are skilled and contribute, pay their taxes, etc. But it's when people come from the third world and all over the European Union and leech off the welfare state and give nothing back in return. And because we have free healthcare (tenderman's favourite topic) it puts immense strain on it and social services.

The left have tried to stop any debate on this matter, by labelling someone who is concerned over immigration as a racist. It's like calling someone who opposes gay marriage automatically homophobic. It's just shaming language to suppress debate.

Most people I know with any sense or means want to leave the country.

[Kentucky]

UK is doomed

The nation has been ruined by a mixture of greedy neoliberalism that deregulated the banking sector and sold off all our wealth as well as by mass immigration of unskilled people combined with the growth of a white underclass that is violent and ill-educated and now comprised of a large proportion of the white population

[tenderman100]

All you Brits out there, keep the answers coming!! Want to hear your thoughts.

[bacon]

Hey another yank here. ok so the uk is northern ireland, scotland, england and wales. I understand the problems of immigrants and government welfare bums (both immigrant and nationals) exist in england specifically london but what about the rest of the UK and england? Are these problems all over the UK or are these just a big city problem (london) because much of the issues raised by the OP could also be attributed to major cities in the US (New York, Chicago, LA). thanks

[tomtud]

I work with a lot of British people. Those from England say they are British. While those from Ireland say Irish and Scotland Scottish. The Englishman tell me it's seen as racist or non patriotic if they say English.

Immigration from countries where the folks did not want to assimilate have made them easy scapegoats for the current problems. Yes, England has bent too far backwards to accommodate these folks this is why right wing parties spruce up.

Maybe English politics need to put English interests first and be proud of being English.

[sportbilly]

Cameron: Obviously born with a silver spoon up his arse but is doing the best he can considering the debt left by the previous government. The coalition love in is fast falling apart though IMO.

Labour: You still get the view that Labour are for the working class and the tories are for the posh gits!

The BNP and other far right groups: I am not a personal fan, however, Nick Griffin (the BNP generally) say some things that most of the country agree with but the mainstream parties do not have the balls to say!

[sportbilly]

ps on Immigration. Letting in all those Eastern Europeans was the best thing ever.....at least for me getting my notch count up! Wonder how I can get a job in immigration and fix visa's for girls on the back of sexual favours......?!

[Kentucky]

(03-10-2013 10:40 AM)bacon Wrote:  

Hey another yank here. ok so the uk is northern ireland, scotland, england and wales. I understand the problems of immigrants and government welfare bums (both immigrant and nationals) exist in england specifically london but what about the rest of the UK and england? Are these problems all over the UK or are these just a big city problem (london) because much of the issues raised by the OP could also be attributed to major cities in the US (New York, Chicago, LA). thanks

X10 worse outside London

The North is largely a desolate hellhole

[Teedub]

(03-10-2013 01:29 PM)Kentucky Wrote:  

The North is largely a desolate hellhole

No it isn't. Parts are sure, but that's like saying ALL of Canada is a frozen wasteland.

No offence mate, but this is the second time you've posted something about Britain, with a sort of certainty and authority, and have been wrong about it. The first instance was your falsity regarding the term "nigglet" being used in Britain as a pejoritive for mixed race children.

I'm not sure if you've ever been to Britain...?

[Kentucky]

(03-10-2013 02:22 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 01:29 PM)Kentucky Wrote:  

The North is largely a desolate hellhole

No it isn't. Parts are sure, but that's like saying ALL of Canada is a frozen wasteland.

No offence mate, but this is the second time you've posted something about Britain, with a sort of certainty and authority, and have been wrong about it. The first instance was your falsity regarding the term "nigglet" being used in Britain as a pejoritive for mixed race children.

I'm not sure if you've ever been to Britain...?

I take this back.

Bradford, Oldham, Hull and Rochdale are the cultural centres of life in the UK.

[Teedub]

^ You're being facetious; Manchester, Liverpool, Edinburgh and Newcastle are certainly cultural centres. They're all in the North (I included Edinburgh as we're talking UK, not England). If we're talking merely outside London...Cambridge, Oxford, York etc. I won't include Birmingham for the same reasons you listed Bradford: Transformed for the worse due to the wrong sort of immigration.

[Echoes]

Hackney, Brixton, Croydon and various other parts of London aren't exactly salubrious mecca's of cultural excellence either.

[sportbilly]

I personally like places like Boston, Scunthorpe, Grimsby, Doncaster...........teeming full of Eastern European women, less than 30 years old, mainly fit..........no complaints from me

[sportbilly]

The North is largely a desolate hellhole = this guy has been to Scunthorpe!

[Ego]

Politics isn't real. It's all a soap opera.

It doesn't effect me.

[A CLOCKWORK TRADER]

(03-10-2013 04:41 PM)Ego Wrote:  

Politics isn't real. It's all a soap opera.

It doesn't effect me.

You're from Northern Ireland and you think politics isn't real? And it doesn't affect you?

Being indifferent to politics is one thing, but thinking it doesn't affect you....

[Kentucky]

(03-10-2013 03:45 PM)Echoes Wrote:  

Hackney, Brixton, Croydon and various other parts of London aren't exactly salubrious mecca's of cultural excellence either.

Croydon is shit but other too are pricey now.
They are building a Westfield in Croydon soon

[Woodward]

(03-10-2013 03:16 AM)Nature Boy Wrote:  

3. Fuck Clement Atlee. I think the welfare state is one of the biggest mistakes in British history. I'd go back to the days of the Victorian era, when charities like Bernado's would step in to take on responsibility for the poor. Then the state can focus its resources on more important areas.

Are you counting the NHS in this? I think the NHS is fantastic.

I live in the US now, and I worked for the NHS a long time ago. The British healthcare system is a lot better in my opinion. In the US, if you go to a medical facility the one of the first things they ask is "where's your insurance". In the UK it's "what's wrong with you?"

At least you never have to worry about getting into massive debt if you get sick. In the US you're screwed without health insurance. I had no heath coverage for a month in the US because I changed jobs and the coverage from my new employer didn't kick in until I had been there a month. I was extra careful not to do anything too physical or stupid in that month.

Regarding other kinds of welfare like council housing, well that's a different kettle of fish.

(03-10-2013 06:01 AM)dk902 Wrote:  

I think the country is in a death spiral.

The mass immigration and political correctness is eroding any sense of identity and community in Britain.

No one in the government wants to tackle the issue of immigration because it's controversial to do so. It's the elephant in the room.

The last government invited millions into the country in order to socially engineer the UK and guarantee themselves votes in the future.

British people have no problem with immigrants, if they are skilled and contribute, pay their taxes, etc. But it's when people come from the third world and all over the European Union and leech off the welfare state and give nothing back in return. And because we have free healthcare (tenderman's favourite topic) it puts immense strain on it and social services.

The left have tried to stop any debate on this matter, by labelling someone who is concerned over immigration as a racist. It's like calling someone who opposes gay marriage automatically homophobic. It's just shaming language to suppress debate.

Most people I know with any sense or means want to leave the country.

Not all third world immigrants are bad - Indians are one of the richest and most educated communities in the UK. They're also pretty well assimilated. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are a bit more of an issue due to their religion and the fact the tend to be from the most backwards parts of their countries.

In Indian culture it's considered a disgrace to not have a job and to live off of welfare.

Re - political correctness: Whilst I love the BBC for it's documentaries, it is a very big motivator in the pro-Islam agenda...there's a shitload of pro-Islamic propaganda. How about fuck all religion and let people keep it to themselves? Why does the BBC promote a pro-Islam agenda? The fact of the matter is that the average British person is not religious.