Is medical school worth it?
Quote: (08-18-2013 11:35 PM)Jazzman92 Wrote:
Thanks for all the info guys I really appreciate all of your opinions. At the moment I'm pretty sure I'm not going to go for medicine. I've had the time to take a good look at the medical profession from an unbiased perspective since I first made this thread, and Ive come to the conclusion that it most likely would not be right for me. The theoretical aspect may seem really cool, but the practice of medicine is far from that. My dads a dentist and ive seen his lifestyle and it seems like a good path for me as well. Hes making 6 figures, working 4-5 days a week, and gets to choose the hours he wants to work because he owns his practice. Dentistry is a 4 years program after your BSC and doesn't require any extra rotation work so you can begin working immediately after graduating and specialization takes less time than it does in medicine. With my dads advice i could have a good transition into the field. Right now however, im just focused on making sure i can get good grades, lift weights and approach women in my spare time. Ive dropped about 22 pounds in the last 3 months and hopefully I can get down to single digit bf % by February or March. The exams and pressure really got to me last semester but im more experienced now from it and back on track in many ways.
Excellent choice.
Dentist provides a sweet lifestyle. And with your Dad having a practice waiting for you? That is pure gravy.
Dental school is also highly technical and challenging, and anyone who doesn't know that is simply uniformed and probably thinking of an old Seinfeld episode.
You can also make a significant difference in people's lives and go on medical missions if that's your thing.
Re medical school.
I almost went down this path a few years back. I spent almost 4 years of my life deciding. After becoming an EMT, and finishing a post bacc pre med program (dropped 50 k on it), and getting into med school, I stopped and said no. It was not an easy decision due to the sunk cost.
Guys like that poster's uncle who went to a Carib school and ended up as a 48 yo multi millionaire plastic surgeon with a hottie Polish wife 20 years younger? That is not a typical result to put it mildly. Someone like that will be a rockstar no matter what they choose to do.
After thinking everything over, I decided the only good reason to become a doctor was a deep interest in the science of medicine, combined with the capacity to tolerate an enormous amount of bullshit. A doctor is a service professional. And at the core, I discovered that I just wasn't very interested in the basic science. I liked patient contact, I liked some aspects of being an EMT, and also when I was shadowing at a hospital, hanging with doctors, and also in the post bacc program, being around smart and motivated people was fun...but that isn't the core of the profession/job.
I do have a lingering doubt in my mind about helping people or not. I guess its an ego thing.
My solution to that is to at some point in the future fund the medical studies of a couple of Africans. I figure training two african doctors should cost about 10% of what I would have spent on my own medical education.
"Me llaman el desaparecido
Que cuando llega ya se ha ido
Volando vengo, volando voy
Deprisa deprisa a rumbo perdido"
Though there's a higher demand for doctors, due to patients and America's poor health habits, the market is pretty much corrupted since the government has colluded with the health insurance agencies and pretty much corrupted the market, which is why the prices are so high. It's become much more impossible for doctors to make the amount of money that people think they make, which is why they've increasingly shifted to getting other degrees even after spending close to 8 - 12 you to reach a specialized area. It's very hard basically to go into private practice due to the market corruption. In fact one of the reasons why there's been such a surge in the public health industry, is because the job security and lowest risk, is not in the actual act of performing medicine, but in it's administration and the bureaucracies built on top of it. I didn't go to med school, once I understood the economics of it, and had talked to a lot of veterans in the field.
That said, it's different if it's a passion thing. If you like being around doctors, feel a certain energy when you're around doctors, since you were a kid, then yeah it's the place for you. If that's not the case, but you have a passionate for research (which is lower risk), but don't necessarily have the passion for dealing with patients it's still a great industry and you will get paid lots of money compared to the rest of the average Americans. When you're driven by passion you can make a way regardless of how bad the market is, however, if you're doing this to please parents, because you think you're smart and have to use that intelligence to be in an honorable profession, then I'd tread carefully. It's not that you can't succeed in med-school (once you're in, they'll do what they can to keep you in there), but without passion, you're not going to have the endurance to deal with all the BS that's involved in the industry.
Another thing to remember, is that the AMA has been lobbying congress for a long period of time against the use of automation in medicine due to it's cost cutting, which would affect doctors, but benefit corporations and customers. Due to this, there's been a rapid rise in medical tourism, where people travel to India and get surgeries while being treated like kings in resorts that are a fraction of the price they would pay in the U.S.
That said, it's different if it's a passion thing. If you like being around doctors, feel a certain energy when you're around doctors, since you were a kid, then yeah it's the place for you. If that's not the case, but you have a passionate for research (which is lower risk), but don't necessarily have the passion for dealing with patients it's still a great industry and you will get paid lots of money compared to the rest of the average Americans. When you're driven by passion you can make a way regardless of how bad the market is, however, if you're doing this to please parents, because you think you're smart and have to use that intelligence to be in an honorable profession, then I'd tread carefully. It's not that you can't succeed in med-school (once you're in, they'll do what they can to keep you in there), but without passion, you're not going to have the endurance to deal with all the BS that's involved in the industry.
Another thing to remember, is that the AMA has been lobbying congress for a long period of time against the use of automation in medicine due to it's cost cutting, which would affect doctors, but benefit corporations and customers. Due to this, there's been a rapid rise in medical tourism, where people travel to India and get surgeries while being treated like kings in resorts that are a fraction of the price they would pay in the U.S.
After spending four years being surrounded by premed students....
-Only do it if you know 100% you want to be a doctor, with no doubt in your mind.
-Major in something useful and interesting that will provide you with a backup plan if you don't get into medical school or decide you don't want to go. Engineering is a great choice. Medical schools value the problem solving skills you gain in engineering and it will give you a leg up on the biology majors.
-Only do it if you know 100% you want to be a doctor, with no doubt in your mind.
-Major in something useful and interesting that will provide you with a backup plan if you don't get into medical school or decide you don't want to go. Engineering is a great choice. Medical schools value the problem solving skills you gain in engineering and it will give you a leg up on the biology majors.
I know a lot of people still in grad school for various medical professions.
Think of it this way, by the time you will actually start making bank and paying down those student loans people who didn't waste time in medical school are probably making as much as you AND they aren't paying down those massive loans.
The people (and doctors) that I know look miserable and I don't blame them. People treat you like gods that can do anything. Not to mention the whole thing ages you like it is no ones business.
Think you're going to have time to hit the gym while you're working that 12 hour shift? Let alone eat healthy?
Overall, the money from being a doctor is a solid 10. The loans, lifestyle, and toll it takes on your body is a fat 0.
In short, med school isn't worth it unless you:
1. Are going to a top tier school
2. Are getting paid (scholarships, etc) to be going
Don't do something for prestige and money. Do it for passion. And especially don't do anything that requires you to take out an ungodly large amount of money to do.
Think of it this way, by the time you will actually start making bank and paying down those student loans people who didn't waste time in medical school are probably making as much as you AND they aren't paying down those massive loans.
The people (and doctors) that I know look miserable and I don't blame them. People treat you like gods that can do anything. Not to mention the whole thing ages you like it is no ones business.
Think you're going to have time to hit the gym while you're working that 12 hour shift? Let alone eat healthy?
Overall, the money from being a doctor is a solid 10. The loans, lifestyle, and toll it takes on your body is a fat 0.
In short, med school isn't worth it unless you:
1. Are going to a top tier school
2. Are getting paid (scholarships, etc) to be going
Don't do something for prestige and money. Do it for passion. And especially don't do anything that requires you to take out an ungodly large amount of money to do.
Med school ranking does not matter much, as long as it is an American medical school. Step 1 scores, letters of recommendations, extracurriculars, and honors will determine what residency you do, and only that will determine the lifestyle you will have.
This is an old thread but I'll chime in if anyone is still considering it.
It's worth it if it's what YOU WANT TO DO. Sure it's a lot of work but if you enjoy it and many physicians do, then it is tolerable and even pleasant at times. Like others have said don't go crazy on debt. But there are always moonlighting shifts available if needed. I know a few that picked up hours during residency at sleep labs for $70ish an hour.
I know many physicians in many specialties that love what they do and encourage their kids to go into medicine.
The hours can be long in some specialties. Many hospitalists work a 7 on and 7 off rotation. Arrive at 8ish and leave by 5ish but of course they take call all night which can be busy or nothing. 12 hour shifts in the ER are not really bad, get used to them fast. You learn real fast that work days are work days, no going out partying and then getting up at 0430. Doesn't work well. General surgeons are really the only ones I know that seem miserable the most. This is mostly because they are in short supply. So they work long hours and are always on call for them selves plus ED coverage.
It does seem like many have under developed social skills but I can say that about many fields. I know a urologist who is in his late 50's that kills it with young women too.
Like Thomas the Rhymer said, the adrenaline rush goes away very fast and it becomes routine. It would take something extreme to get much of a reaction out of me anymore.
I am an RN with plenty of experience in many departments including ED so this is all coming from experience. I am currently in nurse practitioner school. However if I had it all to do over again I would have buckled down in my late teens and twenties and gone to med school but looking at 40 in a couple years it is just not practical.
If someone wants to do it. Go for it.
It's worth it if it's what YOU WANT TO DO. Sure it's a lot of work but if you enjoy it and many physicians do, then it is tolerable and even pleasant at times. Like others have said don't go crazy on debt. But there are always moonlighting shifts available if needed. I know a few that picked up hours during residency at sleep labs for $70ish an hour.
I know many physicians in many specialties that love what they do and encourage their kids to go into medicine.
The hours can be long in some specialties. Many hospitalists work a 7 on and 7 off rotation. Arrive at 8ish and leave by 5ish but of course they take call all night which can be busy or nothing. 12 hour shifts in the ER are not really bad, get used to them fast. You learn real fast that work days are work days, no going out partying and then getting up at 0430. Doesn't work well. General surgeons are really the only ones I know that seem miserable the most. This is mostly because they are in short supply. So they work long hours and are always on call for them selves plus ED coverage.
It does seem like many have under developed social skills but I can say that about many fields. I know a urologist who is in his late 50's that kills it with young women too.
Like Thomas the Rhymer said, the adrenaline rush goes away very fast and it becomes routine. It would take something extreme to get much of a reaction out of me anymore.
I am an RN with plenty of experience in many departments including ED so this is all coming from experience. I am currently in nurse practitioner school. However if I had it all to do over again I would have buckled down in my late teens and twenties and gone to med school but looking at 40 in a couple years it is just not practical.
If someone wants to do it. Go for it.
The money is definitely not there anymore, but then what is your alternative. Any job that allow you to consistently make over $300,000 a year is going take work. Also the cream of crop in any profession will make banks.
Top lawyer, banker, doctor will all make 7 figures. The lower end doctor does do a little better than lower end b-school grad or crappy law school grad or worker bee engineer.
The student loan is irrelevant. My friend make $30,000 a month and he pays $500 a month for student loan.
It's a long ass road to be a doctor. Most of my friends don't really start making money until they are mid 30s.
I would suggest take a couple of years off in between to travel and enjoy life. You can easily take a year off in college to travel, bang a ton of pussy. 1st year of med school is not bad. You can party a lot. Between 2nd and 3rd year of med school you can take another year off and hot a lot of pussy. The 2nd part of 4th year of med school is easy. A lot of people do internship in Hawaii and just goof off and have fun. Residency is hard as hell, but again, many specialty residency require research. So during your research year you can have fun adn get it out of your system.
Overall it's hard work, but so is most high paying, high responsibility job.
Also certain specialty seem more gratifying than others. ER for some reason has very high burn out rate. Oncologists for some reason love their job. Some patients also seem more grateful than others. Not sure why. Research and find out.
Top lawyer, banker, doctor will all make 7 figures. The lower end doctor does do a little better than lower end b-school grad or crappy law school grad or worker bee engineer.
The student loan is irrelevant. My friend make $30,000 a month and he pays $500 a month for student loan.
It's a long ass road to be a doctor. Most of my friends don't really start making money until they are mid 30s.
I would suggest take a couple of years off in between to travel and enjoy life. You can easily take a year off in college to travel, bang a ton of pussy. 1st year of med school is not bad. You can party a lot. Between 2nd and 3rd year of med school you can take another year off and hot a lot of pussy. The 2nd part of 4th year of med school is easy. A lot of people do internship in Hawaii and just goof off and have fun. Residency is hard as hell, but again, many specialty residency require research. So during your research year you can have fun adn get it out of your system.
Overall it's hard work, but so is most high paying, high responsibility job.
Also certain specialty seem more gratifying than others. ER for some reason has very high burn out rate. Oncologists for some reason love their job. Some patients also seem more grateful than others. Not sure why. Research and find out.
I work in healthcare and I'll give you my thoughts. If you become a physician, you are not going to have a career, you are going to have a lifestyle. Obviously the path in medicine you take will dictate how true this statement is. Don't expect loads of free time. Even after work, you will be taking your work home.
Also, lots of physicians when asked if they would do it again say no. If you are getting into healthcare because you think it will be rewarding, it's not. This is the great lie everyone in healthcare tells themselves. Very rarely do I feel rewarded helping patients. Most are entitled and ungrateful. You deal with tons of shitty human beings: lazy people, drug addicts, welfare abusers, baby boomers, etc. They often take their frustrations out on you for things that are not your fault I.e. insurance. I don't know who's worse in terms of entitlement: boomers or welfare mongrels. The few people I help who do make me feel rewarded are far exceeded by the number of shitty people. Everyone with a doctorate seems they have something to prove to you so it's often a bunch of pretentious pricks having a dick measuring contest to see who is smarter.
Patients often try to guilt trip you, "well if my insurance doesn't cover it, I guess they want me to die... since you won't give this to me for free you must want me to die..." I've gotten used to it now and just tell them to talk to the insurance because it's out of my hands. I don't run a fucking charity.
The only way I can see it truly be rewarding is if you have a private practice. Even then, you dedicate more of your time to running it
If they weren't handing out six figure salaries then I would not be in healthcare.
Also, lots of physicians when asked if they would do it again say no. If you are getting into healthcare because you think it will be rewarding, it's not. This is the great lie everyone in healthcare tells themselves. Very rarely do I feel rewarded helping patients. Most are entitled and ungrateful. You deal with tons of shitty human beings: lazy people, drug addicts, welfare abusers, baby boomers, etc. They often take their frustrations out on you for things that are not your fault I.e. insurance. I don't know who's worse in terms of entitlement: boomers or welfare mongrels. The few people I help who do make me feel rewarded are far exceeded by the number of shitty people. Everyone with a doctorate seems they have something to prove to you so it's often a bunch of pretentious pricks having a dick measuring contest to see who is smarter.
Patients often try to guilt trip you, "well if my insurance doesn't cover it, I guess they want me to die... since you won't give this to me for free you must want me to die..." I've gotten used to it now and just tell them to talk to the insurance because it's out of my hands. I don't run a fucking charity.
The only way I can see it truly be rewarding is if you have a private practice. Even then, you dedicate more of your time to running it
If they weren't handing out six figure salaries then I would not be in healthcare.
Quote: (12-11-2014 12:43 AM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:
You deal with tons of shitty human beings:
Truth. And you can not begin to understand how shitty a lot of people are until you deal with them in the ER. It's sickening how pathetic a lot of people are.
Quote:Quote:
The only way I can see it truly be rewarding is if you have a private practice. Even then, you dedicate more of your time to running it
There are rewarding moments, granted they are few and far between depending on area.
I just talked with a friend who is in her second year of med school and is a non traditional student in her early 30s, and it got me thinking again about this, and about how some people end up deeply unhappy in medicine.
You will have a lot of weird, obsessive people around you, who seem to see medical school as a holy grail, rather than what it is - a path to a service oriented science job that is stressful, well respected, fairly good in compensation (eventually), and involves a massive amount of lifestyle sacrifice especially during training/residency. It can be a great fit for people who realize what they are getting themselves into, and a terrible drag for those who have unrealistic expectations about what being a doctor is. If you really want to help people, encourage fatties to exercise is what I concluded in part when contemplating this path. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Jack LaLanne did more good for humanity than a thousand doctors.
If you absolutely find the science interesting and truly fascinating, and can deal with the tremendous amount of bullshit and sacrifice, and place a high value on job security and prestige, then it may be the career for you.
Would you eat a poop hot dog to get into medical school? A lot of people would.
Here is a classic SDN thread I remember reading years ago, it is now 12 years old, still going strong, and has almost 1200 posts. The survey says 59.7% would.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/...hool.1007/
You will have a lot of weird, obsessive people around you, who seem to see medical school as a holy grail, rather than what it is - a path to a service oriented science job that is stressful, well respected, fairly good in compensation (eventually), and involves a massive amount of lifestyle sacrifice especially during training/residency. It can be a great fit for people who realize what they are getting themselves into, and a terrible drag for those who have unrealistic expectations about what being a doctor is. If you really want to help people, encourage fatties to exercise is what I concluded in part when contemplating this path. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Jack LaLanne did more good for humanity than a thousand doctors.
If you absolutely find the science interesting and truly fascinating, and can deal with the tremendous amount of bullshit and sacrifice, and place a high value on job security and prestige, then it may be the career for you.
Would you eat a poop hot dog to get into medical school? A lot of people would.
Here is a classic SDN thread I remember reading years ago, it is now 12 years old, still going strong, and has almost 1200 posts. The survey says 59.7% would.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/...hool.1007/
"Me llaman el desaparecido
Que cuando llega ya se ha ido
Volando vengo, volando voy
Deprisa deprisa a rumbo perdido"
See, this is why I value RVF. I can always come here to find some real answers. Truth is always appreciated.
High school students, pre-meds, medical students, snap, anyone who truly wants to become a doctor should read this thread.
High school students, pre-meds, medical students, snap, anyone who truly wants to become a doctor should read this thread.
Quote: (12-08-2014 11:21 AM)redbeard Wrote:
After spending four years being surrounded by premed students....
-Only do it if you know 100% you want to be a doctor, with no doubt in your mind.
-Major in something useful and interesting that will provide you with a backup plan if you don't get into medical school or decide you don't want to go. Engineering is a great choice. Medical schools value the problem solving skills you gain in engineering and it will give you a leg up on the biology majors.
Do this.
You might hate all your other friends partying until you see that job market after college for anyone non-engineering is pretty terrible.
I am a medical student and will graduate in march next year. I can only speak for the dutch medical school and the dutch jobmarket and specialisationopportunities. The last 2 years (the practical part of med school) I have had the best experiences in my life. I've seen people die, delivered babies, pinched off massively bleeding arteries, told people they had cancer, held newborns in my arms, wiped the ass of grannies, put my finger in every bodily orifice, played chess with a psychotic man, drilled holes in skulls, banged a few nurses, etc.
I'm planning to open my own practice in non-surgical orthopedics next fall. Being your own boss as a doctor and having a free lifestyle and good income is not easy to combine, but it is possible, especially in the US.
Dentistry makes it a hell of a lot easier to live a free life but being a doctor is a lot more versatile.
I'm planning to open my own practice in non-surgical orthopedics next fall. Being your own boss as a doctor and having a free lifestyle and good income is not easy to combine, but it is possible, especially in the US.
Dentistry makes it a hell of a lot easier to live a free life but being a doctor is a lot more versatile.
The biggest issue with going to med school is you can easily get shut out of a lot of specialties with one error, and you can never ever find your way into them
I tell people to only go to med school if they can love being a general doc in a second or third tier city. If that's the case, then go. If not, don't.
I tell people to only go to med school if they can love being a general doc in a second or third tier city. If that's the case, then go. If not, don't.
This thread is pathetically pessimistic and I question where many of you get your facts. If you have the drive, passion, and intelligence, medicine can be a great calling.
Also, the interest in basic science is not relevant
Once you have been practicing in your field for a while, you spend less than a minute a day thinking about basic science; its all pattern recognition and protocol; for me the majority of my mental time is spent trying to do everything faster and more efficiently; im constantly thinking, "how do I politely bring this visit to an end, whats the fastest way to do this procedure safely, how can I multitask to be able to get all my paperwork done so when I finish my last patient I can get out the door", etc. the irony is I am already at almost 99% efficiency in all the aforementioned, but its still what I focus on; and Im not alone, and im still slower than my partners (although I think patients like me more); but I love my job too
Medicine is a job like any other job, just glorified more frequently than others; in life, its a constant struggle to find the least miserable job that allows you to do the most with your non-work life; always a trade off; thats why there is so much to be said for location and time independent gigs, you optimize the non-work part by orders of magnitude
Once you have been practicing in your field for a while, you spend less than a minute a day thinking about basic science; its all pattern recognition and protocol; for me the majority of my mental time is spent trying to do everything faster and more efficiently; im constantly thinking, "how do I politely bring this visit to an end, whats the fastest way to do this procedure safely, how can I multitask to be able to get all my paperwork done so when I finish my last patient I can get out the door", etc. the irony is I am already at almost 99% efficiency in all the aforementioned, but its still what I focus on; and Im not alone, and im still slower than my partners (although I think patients like me more); but I love my job too
Medicine is a job like any other job, just glorified more frequently than others; in life, its a constant struggle to find the least miserable job that allows you to do the most with your non-work life; always a trade off; thats why there is so much to be said for location and time independent gigs, you optimize the non-work part by orders of magnitude
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