[GermanDude]

Hey guys,

I'm 27 now and luckily still dont have a gut, but I do see everyone around me putting on weight.

I just read an article about how celebrities stay in shape, and when I realized it was along the lines of "Madonna gets up and kills herself in the gym for 25 hours a day with a work-out regime that..." I quit reading. I think these fitness nuts overdo it - you get the impression that you only have two choices: 1.) Staying in shape as a full-time job to still be in shape at 40 or 2.) Doing absolutely nothing, at all for your body.

My dad (who still plays sports every day) has six pack abs and a perfect body at 57 (not kidding, but I dont think I'm the same body type as him). My mom isnt in such good shape anymore (but well almost 60), but I saw pics of her in her late 30's/at almost 40 and she still was in great shape.

This got me wondering - how difficult is it really to keep the pounds off as you age (if you have a normal body type)? Any experiences?

My observations make me believe that some hollywood people overdo it, and that for someone motivated/with self-discipline/a job he likes(thus enough freedom), it shouldnt be impossible to be in great shape at 40, maybe into your 40s...without being a fitness nut.

What are your experiences?

[thekiller]

I'm 40 and have a slim athletic build and I look 30, some is genetics but I've also taken a good multivitamin since my 20s. I try to eat 4-5 smaller meals a day too.

I go the gym 2 to 3 times a week to lift for a hour and a half, and other days if I'm off and not too busy I do 20 mins of cardio. I currently use http://www.activtrax.com for my workouts. It's $30 a year to get personalised workouts specific to the equipment at your gym. You do the initial strength test and select what goal you have(endurance, mass building, fat loss) how long you can spend in the gym, and wether you prefer free weights or nautilus style or both. You go in and get your printout for that workout which gives you the exercise, weight and rep range, you do your best and enter in your results when your done, it then computes your next workout. I've been really happy with the results.
As for suppliments I just take a preworkout drink like jack3d or Monster Pump only on the days I workout, and then a protein shake afterwards. I eat some peanut butter right before bed too.

Also, this sounds woo woo, but I HIGHLY recommend you guys in your 20s start using a moisturizer for your face, doesn't have to be expensive, you'll thank me when your 40.

[GermanDude]

Interesting, thanks.

As for the moisturizer, though...is there any evidence that this stuff works? I mean do you know plenty of people who use it , and who dont use it..and can tell an actual difference?...or any other evidence?

Im not trying to be annoying...but you wont get me to do this without evidence that it works :-)

[thekiller]

(05-30-2010 07:22 AM)GermanDude Wrote:  

Interesting, thanks.

As for the moisturizer, though...is there any evidence that this stuff works? I mean do you know plenty of people who use it , and who dont use it..and can tell an actual difference?...or any other evidence?

Im not trying to be annoying...but you wont get me to do this without evidence that it works :-)

I know most the guys my age who don't use it, don't look as young as I do... read Men's health magazine, or better yet talk to a Dermatologist, they'll tell you a moisturizer will keep your skin looking younger, most recommend using one with a light SPF in it as sun damage is one of the biggest causes of aging skin... make sure you get your neck too or you may have a youthful face but an old-looking neck!

[GermanDude]

Ill try not to be more annoying with my questioning - will check out what dermatologists say about it.

[Cicero]

I would check out http://arthurdevany.com/. He practices what he calls "evolutionary fitness." The premise is to base your diet off of meat, fruit, vegetables, nuts, etc, while eliminating or limiting grains, beans, dairy, excess sugar. The workouts he recommends are high intensity, but short in duration. i.e. 2-3 workouts a week none over 45 minutes. He is 72 years old and looks 20 years younger.

He is an article about him in an uk newspaper...http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/diet_and_fitness/article4523487.ece

[hydrogonian]

I'm very out of shape now, as I don't practice what I preach. At least not within the past few years, except during the fall / winter months when I'm coaching. Then I lift and generally am forced to stay in shape.

I'm a former wrestler, and a current wrestling coach. So, I know how to lose weight, and how to get in shape. At least from the perspective of a wrestling athlete. (I also played other sports, but wrestling trumps them all in terms of the fitness needed to compete)

Also, I have a lot of experience with a lot of different diets (everything from high carb vegetarian (2+ years) to 'paleo' type diets (About 10 years of experience with these).

An effective dietary principle:

You should keep your carb ingestion to as early in the day as possible (like carb load, if you feel the need, when you get up), and reduce carbs as the day progresses.

The less carbs you eat toward bedtime, the higher the release of anabolic (GH, testosterone, etc..) hormone during sleep and the deeper your sleep will be. If you feel "tired" in the morning, then you will likely need to carb load. If you feel alert, you can get away with less carbs.

Don't try to eliminate carbs completely, and dont go all carb. Both of those diets are problematic for a lot of reasons. Both can lead to physical stress states that are too high in the body, and both can lead to bad health. Your body requires carbs at times, to deal with physical stress and to satisfy the demand of stress hormones (which will otherwise eat your muscle), but too much constant sugar consumption has problems that are also well documented.

The better your sleep, the less carbs that you need to ingest. (Has to do with stress levels in the body). When your stress goes up, your body searches for sugar. If it doesnt get it, it eats your muscle. Likewise, sugar consumption casues the body to go into a higher stress state. Its a feedback loop.

The deeper your sleep, the less baseline stress you should have. The less baseline stress, the deeper your sleep. Another negative feedback loop. Read "Lights Out: Sleep Sugar and Survival" for a great book on the importance of sleep and its relation to sugar metabolism.

Recap:

Sugar / Carbs in the morning -Reduce as the day goes on.
Go to bed as early as possible for maximum hormonal release.


Working out:

If I had to use one method of staying in shape, it would be along the principles of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Slow
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_intensity_training

Basically lifting high amounts of weight, at very slow speeds and low reps.
I've found this type of lifting to have the best ROI of any type of exercise. It will get you the strongest, while keeping your muscle compact. So you will stay lean, but get very strong.

Dont underestimate how slow you should go though. I find that the ROI is directly related to how slow I go. You also don't need to do a lot of exercise when working out like this. I generally do 1-2 sets of 4-8 reps of each exercise. If you can do more reps, then you should add more weight until they fall within that range. If you can do more than 1-2 sets, you should try lifting slower until your muscles are too burnt to do more than 1-2 sets. Occasionally, I'll do the third set.

BE SURE TO KEEP YOUR BREATH RATE DOWN WHEN LIFTING. If your breathing heavy, your counteracting the same hormonal reaction that your trying to stimulate. Its like spinning your wheels, if the goal is muscle. When you start to breath faster, its time to stop and take a break. Aerobic (cardio) and anaerobic (lifting) are have antagonistic hormonal effects to each other. Also, there are a lot of people that believe that anaerobic exercise keeps you slimmer than aerobic exercise. The hormonal response to each sort of corroborates this. You dont want to be the skinny runner cardio guy, you want to be the compact muscular guy. Fat loss should come through diet adjustment, lifting, and sleep, not through cardio, imo.

This guys book: http://www.hormonalfitness.com/ is a great buy because it has two sections: The first goes into the hormonal mechanisms of sugar metabolism, on a deep level, so that you can understand how your hormones respond to food (although, my to-the point diet recommendations are more sustainable than his, with a similar effect, trust me) and 2: Goes into the weightlifting perspective described above, explaining the hormonal mechanisms behind it. You cant lose reading this book. Its called "Natural Hormonal Enhancement" by Rob Faigin.

Pavel Tsatsouline's books also promote this approach to working out, with some minor differences in philosophy. I like his "Power to the People" book for his best overview on how you should think, and what you should know, when lifting.

I've also heard that this book http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Brawn-Insid...11_russss1
is one of the best to buy for gaining muscle, especially for hard gainers (skinny/scrawny guys). but I haven't read it. Its on my list though.

[GermanDude]

"I'm very out of shape now, as I don't practice what I preach. At least not within the past few years, except during the fall / winter months when I'm coaching. "

How much of a problem is this when it comes to pulling (good-looking) women? less than I think if you got "game"?

Somehow, I doubt it, but then again I see Beyoncé with jay-z and hot chicks (who are already rich - like the super hot wife he married) go after Boris Becker (former german tennis player who is in okay shape), etc.

[clr]

ferris from 4hww added 30 lbs of muscle in a month using HIT training.... its very effective. I like it. But I am getting lazy with this traveling and drinking, also getting fatter doah!

[hydrogonian]

(05-31-2010 01:45 AM)GermanDude Wrote:  

"I'm very out of shape now, as I don't practice what I preach. At least not within the past few years, except during the fall / winter months when I'm coaching. "

How much of a problem is this when it comes to pulling (good-looking) women? less than I think if you got "game"?

Somehow, I doubt it, but then again I see Beyoncé with jay-z and hot chicks (who are already rich - like the super hot wife he married) go after Boris Becker (former german tennis player who is in okay shape), etc.

Only recently am I thinking that I'm out of shape enough to where it will hurt my chances. I have very wide shoulders, which works to hide a gut to a certain point. I'm currently around 215 lbs (I'm 5 foot 8). Around 175 lbs is my ideal. I look much better with a shirt on than off right now. I wouldn't rush to the beach anytime soon.

But yeah, its definitely much less of a problem if you have game, just like any image based issue is. As it is now, I'm confident that I could get most girls, who would be interested in me at a lighter weight, to the bedroom stage regardless of my current weight. That is, as long as I'm not wearing clothes which accentuate my gut. If you saw me, you wouldn't think 'fat', maybe just carrying a few extra lbs. The weight in my face actually might help me a bit, as I look less like a kid than I used to. If they don't mind what they see when we're naked is another issue.

My last girlfriend (gone as of last week) was VERY in shape. A v-shaped back, defined abdominals, an almost a perfect ass to waist ratio, the whole deal...I felt like a fat troll on top of her. It actually made me laugh a bit when we were having sex. She's wonder what I was laughing about, but I wouldn't tell her..

I know some fat guys with very desirable wives. They aren't rich, either, and their wives married them fat.

[DrArete]

(05-31-2010 01:45 AM)GermanDude Wrote:  

"I'm very out of shape now, as I don't practice what I preach. At least not within the past few years, except during the fall / winter months when I'm coaching. "

How much of a problem is this when it comes to pulling (good-looking) women? less than I think if you got "game"?

Somehow, I doubt it, but then again I see Beyoncé with jay-z and hot chicks (who are already rich - like the super hot wife he married) go after Boris Becker (former german tennis player who is in okay shape), etc.

LOL!

I don't think there has been a human being in history who has added 30 lbs of muscle in a month.

Even a good athlete, with a weight of say 210 lbs, who was at the peak effects of a multi compound steroid cycle (test, dianabol, deca), and was doing nothing at all except maximizing calorie intake and working out, would be able to gain at the most 10 lbs of muscle in a month. Anything more than that is fat.

Also, if you want to look awesome at 62, HGH, unlimited money, and a hardcore training program do wonders - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r24SB8JNYHw

[clr]

the ONLY reason I can believe it.... and I am a cynical bastard.... is because Ferris had NO reason to post, no money making, no anything, he posted before and after pictures and blogged about his experiment. then you read about a few body builders who swear by it, then you read a FEW guys who tried it and had almost as good gains, but they admit they didnt eat properly. When its people posting experiences about something that is FREE to try on the internet, it has more credibility then if they are trying to sell something.

Also most people (from what I have read and experienced) dont push themselves to muscle failure. Look up the colorado experiment. Done by a scientist(which is where HIT comes from) to determine the fastest way to gain muscle mass.

Hell I used to do sets in the gym, in 20-30 minutes, you feel like you have done a 90 minute work out, and you feel the burn and soreness DEEP in the muscle for the next few days

[speakeasy]

(05-31-2010 02:38 AM)clr Wrote:  

ferris from 4hww added 30 lbs of muscle in a month using HIT training.... its very effective. I like it. But I am getting lazy with this traveling and drinking, also getting fatter doah!

I remember reading that and I think he's B.S.'ing. There's no way possible to put on 30lbs of muscle in a month, esp without any use of 'roids.

[Rocco81]

Damn Hydro...what weight did you wrestle? I knew there is a reason I liked you What level you coach at? You're 5'8 and 215?? Damn bro that is like a fucking fire hydrant...I'm 5'11 and 215, decent shape but certainly not wrestling shape any more. I still spar/compete with some dudes I know, and train at the local wrestlng room D1.

I really need to walk around at about 200 and easy cut to 185 to be competitive, last tournament I did I competed at 205 which was the heaviest I ever competed at...ended up with 3rd place but I could feel I was in too heavy.

[Rocco81]

Back to OP.... man you got to look at lifestyle and what fits yours. Talking about celebrities, well think about it...when they are not writing an album or touring, or shooting a movie, what else is there to do? If you were a millionaire and were able to sit around on your ass for months at a time, what else would you do? Working out for a few hours a day is not always possible when working full time, but when you can break it up several times a day, plus afford nutritionists, personal chef's etc...its not that bad.

Speakeasy - you hit the nail on the head with the mention of Roids. It is a well known, yet usually hush hush fact, that many celebs are on light cycles of roids or hgh etc. This is not some heavy dosage of body builder type juice, but celebs pay hollywood doc's mucho dinero to keep them happy and fit. If not in Hollywood then some other country is easy access. They keep their hormones "optomized" which might mean some light dosages of "enhancing" agents. In cases like Stalone, Arni etc. it was well documented that they were dosing heavy for their movies..Rocky, Terminator, cliff Hanger etc.

To make the most of your time GD, hit the gym and lift 2-3 times a week depending on your schedule. Hit your large areas, Olympic lifts. Like Hydro said, lift heavy but I will add explosive. In your non lifting time do crunches and run. Vary your running, like sprints one day, medium distance another day. I am 100% oppposed to marathon running..it makes you skinny and weak (while sometimes still allowing a belly) and ther is no reason a man should have to run 10 miles from anything hahaha

[nomis69]

Try Bikram ( Hot ) Yoga, it is quite a challenge when you first start.

My metabolism has gone thru the roof after nearly 3 months of it.

[fratboy]

Could someone please ban Nomis69?

[hydrogonian]

(06-01-2010 10:59 AM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

Damn Hydro...what weight did you wrestle? I knew there is a reason I liked you What level you coach at? You're 5'8 and 215?? Damn bro that is like a fucking fire hydrant...I'm 5'11 and 215, decent shape but certainly not wrestling shape any more. I still spar/compete with some dudes I know, and train at the local wrestlng room D1.

I really need to walk around at about 200 and easy cut to 185 to be competitive, last tournament I did I competed at 205 which was the heaviest I ever competed at...ended up with 3rd place but I could feel I was in too heavy.

haha...I feel like a fire hydrant at this weight

When I was competing, I wrestled at 155, or sometimes 160 if I had to. That was in my peak condition ten years ago. These days, I don't like being that skinny, although being realistic, if I was going to compete again, that is likely the best weight class for my height and muscle/bone structure.

Today, I'd want to bulk up with as much muscle as possible first before I would start dropping. It would be interesting to see where I would level out at in terms of a comfortable competing weight. It would likely be between 155 and 165, ideally.

The biggest mistake guys make, in either wrestling or sports like MMA imo, is that they compete at weights that are too heavy for their body type. It sounds like you know exactly what I'm talking about. Although, getting third place in a class two or three up from your natural class is a nice accomplishment. Congrats! Its nice when technique compensates for weight/strength differences. A lot of heavier guys arent very good on their feet, although the 205 class can be very tough if you get an in-shape (not fat) guy at that weight. Thats a lot of power for an in-shape guy. And an in-shape guy can still be very fast at that weight. I saw a 205 nationally ranked (high school) guy take another state ranked guy down 3 times in the first 14 seconds of a semi-final match this year (think about that), and 4 times in the first 25 seconds. Take down-let up. He was very quick, and strong.

An ideal competing weight of between 170 and 185 for a guy your height, depending on how much muscle you can carry, sounds about exactly right.

I'm an assistant high school coach right now. Its a lot of fun. The head coach is a former Iranian World Class Freestyle wrestler, and I'm always learning from him. http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics...ami-1.html With him at the helm, I have no ego about not being in a head coaching position...He simply outclasses me and almost anyone else that would compete for that job.

I cant say that I've ever been back in peak wrestling shape that I used to be in. The extra weight is a big part of that. Also, my lungs have taken a beating over the years... Especially in the beginning of the season, I feel like I'm going to die. I cant keep up with the kids on the conditioning end. But I still do well on the wrestling end... I also get hurt a bit easier, and am much less flexible (probably why I get hurt easier). But thats to be expected. There were a lot of years when I was literally doing nothing but partying and working.

[oldnemesis]

(05-30-2010 03:02 AM)GermanDude Wrote:  

This got me wondering - how difficult is it really to keep the pounds off as you age (if you have a normal body type)? Any experiences?

What do I do:

- Gym 2-3 times a week; I've got a schedule from a personal trainer, and I do 3-5 sessions with a trainer once a year to change the workout.

- Visit a cosmetologist once a month. Special face skin treatment, scalp/neck massage and so on. Ironic that just five years ago I'd consider it "kinda gay".

- Getting a full body massage once a week (not a "sensual" one, their massaging skills suck).

- Using skin care lotions suggested by the cosmetologist; they really help.

- Using medicine to fight acne (happens overseas). I suggest to get one from your doctor, and not to use over-the-counter crap.

- Hiking/jogging to keep the heart running, and skydiving to keep the spirit young.

Basically when you get older, you may look better because you getting more responsible (i.e. you actually go to gym instead of thinking "I'll start going there next Monday"); you have more money to spend (when you're 25, spending $200 a month to visit a cosmetologist and on lotions sounds awful, but when you're 35, $200 is a pocket change), and you clearly see the benefits comparing to older age.

By the way, if you're in U.S., Costco has now an excellent deal for 24 hour fitness - $299 for 24 months all clubs gym membership, which ends up being $12/mo. Hard to beat.

[Biz]

Actually it's pretty easy and cost effective to keep in shape and look young as you age. Just have to know what you are doing as you grow up.

[Biz]

(06-08-2010 03:48 AM)nomis69 Wrote:  

Try Bikram ( Hot ) Yoga, it is quite a challenge when you first start.

My metabolism has gone thru the roof after nearly 3 months of it.

You are 100% right about Bikram Yoga, words cant describe how much this works...absolutely incredible, too bad its so rediculously hot that I couldnt keep up with it.

I tried this on a regular basis for close to 2-3 weeks and I can tell you first hand that during this time I felt like I lived in a cloud, I felt so calm, nothing bothered me, completely stess free, slept well, didnt want to eat any bad foods or drink, my libido was redic! ETC ETC ETC

I would 100% do this on a regular basis if I had the time and did not attend the gym 6 days a week.

[Giovonny]

The most important thing you can do to stay in shape as you age is...

Eat a healthy diet of fresh clean food.

[Biz]

(06-09-2010 12:54 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

The most important thing you can do to stay in shape as you age is...

Eat a healthy diet of fresh clean food.

yupp...plus regular exercise and plenty of water and sleep

[IshGibbor]

(06-08-2010 10:23 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(05-30-2010 03:02 AM)GermanDude Wrote:  

This got me wondering - how difficult is it really to keep the pounds off as you age (if you have a normal body type)? Any experiences?

What do I do:

- Gym 2-3 times a week; I've got a schedule from a personal trainer, and I do 3-5 sessions with a trainer once a year to change the workout.

- Visit a cosmetologist once a month. Special face skin treatment, scalp/neck massage and so on. Ironic that just five years ago I'd consider it "kinda gay".

- Getting a full body massage once a week (not a "sensual" one, their massaging skills suck).

- Using skin care lotions suggested by the cosmetologist; they really help.

- Using medicine to fight acne (happens overseas). I suggest to get one from your doctor, and not to use over-the-counter crap.

- Hiking/jogging to keep the heart running, and skydiving to keep the spirit young.

Basically when you get older, you may look better because you getting more responsible (i.e. you actually go to gym instead of thinking "I'll start going there next Monday"); you have more money to spend (when you're 25, spending $200 a month to visit a cosmetologist and on lotions sounds awful, but when you're 35, $200 is a pocket change), and you clearly see the benefits comparing to older age.

By the way, if you're in U.S., Costco has now an excellent deal for 24 hour fitness - $299 for 24 months all clubs gym membership, which ends up being $12/mo. Hard to beat.

What skin care suggestions does your cosmetologists recommend? In terms of applications of lotions, diet, etc.

[oldnemesis]

(06-19-2010 10:22 AM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

What skin care suggestions does your cosmetologists recommend? In terms of applications of lotions, diet, etc.

This depends on what type of skin you have, and whether there are any issues. It also changes in time as her recommendations two years ago were much different comparing to three months ago.