[Kentucky]

Am currently learning Braz Port thanks to Roosh.

Am thinking of learning Russian, Chinese or Gulf Arabic as second language

Has anyone on forum that is a native English speaker become fluent in any of the three?

And how useful was it?

[RichieP]

They're only as useful as you make them. Start with where you want to work/do business with, then learn enough of the language to do so...

They won't give you an advantage, they'll just open up your ability to communicate in that particular country. So I'd say figure out your career/business ideas first, then just see the language as a necessary skill (or not) to facililate it.

[Kentucky]

I work with investments in emerging markets.

I have found that if you can speak a little of a foreign language it goes along way, is normally highly respected, particularly if it is a tough language

I'm leaning towards Russian because of all the oil-rich Stans.

Arabic has Oman, Qatar, Dubai, Saudi, Kuwait which all have great opps for foreigners

Chinese is the hardest of all but gives mainland plus HK and Singapore

[Wool Suit]

Studied modern standard Arabic for 5 years in university. It's essentially the Shakespearean English equivalent of the colloquial and dialectical versions of Arabic spoken throughout the Arab league. The language of business and news.

It's not as hard as it seems to learn, although I benefitted from learning it in a structured environment. It is hard to become fluent in.

[Kitsune]

It depends where you're from, and where you'd like to do business.

If your options are open, where do you feel the most lucrative places are for someone from where you're from.
For instance, if you're from the EU, you can work anywhere in the EU without visa issues etc. If you're from the US, you have to jump through hoops.

Another thing I'd think about is property/business laws. Some countries don't let you own a business/property, so you might be better off learning a language for a place where they will. A lot of it depends on the market you plan to enter and what the laws are concerning that.

For instance, Russia has loads of oil, but are you going to be able to get ahead as a non-Russian in the Russian oil market, even with Russian? Chinese exports are huge, but can you actually own a manufacturing company in China as a non-citizen?

None of those are rhetorical questions, I don't know about the business cultures, but if I had to learn one of those languages for business and had free reign to pick, then I'd think about that.

Also what languages do you know/Have access to? If you know Spanish, then Brazilian Portuguese is an easy first step. If you're currently living in Ukraine, then obviously Russian resources are easier.

A good indicator would probably be what other guys higher up in your industry do: where do they have their contacts, wheere are they from. etc?

[thebassist]

(03-03-2013 06:03 AM)Kentucky Wrote:  

Chinese is the hardest of all but gives mainland plus HK and Singapore

Aside from the older generation (60's+), everyone in Singapore speaks English. And in terms of other languages, there's also a large amount of hokkien and bahasa melayu. Most younger kids speak English with their families and learn Chinese as a second language at school.

In Hong Kong, the main language is Cantonese, not Mandarin. And due to the English colonial history (and consequent effects on the business climate), I'd expect most respectable businessmen to be able to speak English.

If you want to go beyond expat circles, it would take a pretty damn long-term investment in Chinese (I'd say 5-10 years) to get anywhere near fluent. I'm sure there would be a useful payoff, but it takes some intense dedication to become fluent in Chinese.

[blue]

(03-03-2013 10:09 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

If you want to go beyond expat circles, it would take a pretty damn long-term investment in Chinese (I'd say 5-10 years) to get anywhere near fluent. I'm sure there would be a useful payoff, but it takes some intense dedication to become fluent in Chinese.

i have to strongly disagree here, chinese is really not as hard as everybody makes it out to be. first off, you barely have any grammar as opposed to your usual spanish, french, german etc.
Second, even if you want to be able to read chinese characters, again it's alot easier than people (who usually never studied any mandarin) say it is: basically those characters are pictures depicting the meaning of the word which often makes them easy to link to its' translation

While I agree that it takes years to perfect the language, if your main goal is not writing chinese poetry, you should not be afraid of learning chinese as it is much easier than you think!

Check out this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyoyZv2sX...A&index=28

[Kentucky]

(03-03-2013 10:09 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

(03-03-2013 06:03 AM)Kentucky Wrote:  

Chinese is the hardest of all but gives mainland plus HK and Singapore

Aside from the older generation (60's+), everyone in Singapore speaks English. And in terms of other languages, there's also a large amount of hokkien and bahasa melayu. Most younger kids speak English with their families and learn Chinese as a second language at school.

In Hong Kong, the main language is Cantonese, not Mandarin. And due to the English colonial history (and consequent effects on the business climate), I'd expect most respectable businessmen to be able to speak English.

If you want to go beyond expat circles, it would take a pretty damn long-term investment in Chinese (I'd say 5-10 years) to get anywhere near fluent. I'm sure there would be a useful payoff, but it takes some intense dedication to become fluent in Chinese.

Cantonese used to be but nowadays with younger people its Mandarin. If you're working in a corporate environment mandarin is what is spoken

Yes, you can speak English to the elites in any country but to get ahead and be respected learning the local language is essential

In the old days white foreigners could cruise without the local language but those days are dying, particularly East Asia.

You pick up a lot more niceties speaking the language and make contacts you wouldn't otherwise

[Kentucky]

(03-03-2013 10:17 AM)blue Wrote:  

(03-03-2013 10:09 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

If you want to go beyond expat circles, it would take a pretty damn long-term investment in Chinese (I'd say 5-10 years) to get anywhere near fluent. I'm sure there would be a useful payoff, but it takes some intense dedication to become fluent in Chinese.

i have to strongly disagree here, chinese is really not as hard as everybody makes it out to be. first off, you barely have any grammar as opposed to your usual spanish, french, german etc.
Second, even if you want to be able to read chinese characters, again it's alot easier than people (who usually never studied any mandarin) say it is: basically those characters are pictures depicting the meaning of the word which often makes them easy to link to its' translation

While I agree that it takes years to perfect the language, if your main goal is not writing chinese poetry, you should not be afraid of learning chinese as it is much easier than you think!

Check out this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyoyZv2sX...A&index=28

How many years to get fluent in spoken Chinese, enough to cruise through business meetings and impress a few people

I normally get about eight years if you're good

[Brosemite]

If you're an English only guy now, I would not recommend Mandarin as a 2nd language primarily because it's better to pick up a 2nd language in where it's easier to develop "literacy" in (Spanish & Portuguese). Even Thai, Russian, and Korean albeit having different characters possess a concrete alphabet. I don't see the point in learning a language if you cannot eventually learn how to read or write in it.

Now if you are already fluent and literate in a 2nd language, then learning some Mandarin wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Kentucky]

I've decided on Russian will be enlisting in a course next week.

Russian + Portuguese will give me a large chunk of world plus resource-rich areas.

I'm only missing Chinese to complete BRICS

[thebassist]

(03-03-2013 10:17 AM)blue Wrote:  

(03-03-2013 10:09 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

If you want to go beyond expat circles, it would take a pretty damn long-term investment in Chinese (I'd say 5-10 years) to get anywhere near fluent. I'm sure there would be a useful payoff, but it takes some intense dedication to become fluent in Chinese.

i have to strongly disagree here, chinese is really not as hard as everybody makes it out to be. first off, you barely have any grammar as opposed to your usual spanish, french, german etc.
Second, even if you want to be able to read chinese characters, again it's alot easier than people (who usually never studied any mandarin) say it is: basically those characters are pictures depicting the meaning of the word which often makes them easy to link to its' translation

While I agree that it takes years to perfect the language, if your main goal is not writing chinese poetry, you should not be afraid of learning chinese as it is much easier than you think!

Check out this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyoyZv2sX...A&index=28

Have you ever learned Chinese?

While the reading and writing are solely based on memorization (still a couple thousand need to be learned to be fluent), I believe that speaking is really the hardest aspect. I lived in China for 5 years (and studied it for 3, starting to fade away now), but only once did I meet a foreigner who had truly mastered the tones necessary for fluent speaking- to be able to speak like native, and not like a foreigner.

And of course this guy had been studying the Chinese language for 15 years.

Bottom line: useful, but the amount of effort and time needed to get from proficient/intermediate to fluent in my opinion is not worth it.

Unless you are willing to invest a significant amount of time into learning it (5-10 years, if not more), you're not gonna impress anyone with gringo Chinese. Sure you'd get some smiles and looks of surprise from locals when you speak decent Mandarin after a couple years, but it would take something else to get business-proficient in the language, let alone 'cruise through business meetings and impress a few people'.

[NY Digital]

I'm learning Spanish right now. It's fairly easy, but granted I do know English and Polish already.

Next up after Spanish, I'd have to agree with other posters and say Chinese.

Why? The population is the largest in the world and it's a rapidly growing economy.

Not to mention the potential for opening a business there is great.

Although I think learning Spanish first is important. Connecting with a huge population in Central and South America, as well as being able to learn Portuguese easily for Brazil.

[clever alias]

the only people who say chinese is easy are people who dont speak it well.

[Hooligan Harry]

This is very much dependent on industry and your typical location. Best languages to learn are Spanish, Russian, Mandarin and Arabic.

Its often a case of chasing peoples second languages, not their first. English is the most widely spoken second language, but after that Russian and Arabic are very common because they are popular second languages for a lot of people.

[OSL]

Spanish+Chinese. Take advantage of pro business environments in Peru, Colombia, and Chile. Esp Peru and Colombia have increasingly wealthy populations due to resource wealth booms in the past decade and better political/social stability (compared to before).

If you have a China/LatAm connection going then you can make a killing off import/export of a range of in-demand consumer products and industrial products. Those are also two of the most spoken languages worldwide.

Also important is to not just speak it but make sure you have good contacts in both locations, preferably wealth/elite and government connected to help you remove legal hurdles and cut red tape when necessary.

My two cents.

[clever alias]

i was under the impression that the market is already saturated with spanish speakers and its not as eye popping as it once was

[ElJefe]

Isn't there automatic value in being a Spanish/Portuguese/Russian speaking Westerner (ie. Northern European)?

[rdvirus]

(03-03-2013 05:02 PM)NY Digital Wrote:  

I'm learning Spanish right now. It's fairly easy, but granted I do know English and Polish already.

Next up after Spanish, I'd have to agree with other posters and say Chinese.

English is my first language and French is my second, I'm fairly fluent and can write in French but i haven't been using it so I'm rusty. Spanish is so close to French that I can usually figure out what it is that I'm hearing/reading. Something to keep in mind as either one will help you fast track into the other.

Is Polish your second language? My family is from Poland and I have some relatives still living there... I'd love to be able to pick up some basic conversational skills. Curious on some background into how hard it is to learn.

[Kentucky]

(03-04-2013 06:01 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

Isn't there automatic value in being a Spanish/Portuguese/Russian speaking Westerner (ie. Northern European)?

Can't speak for everyone but as an interviewer I can say that I'm not impressed by French or Spanish. Many people say they speak them and I see it as an 'easy language'. French is more useful for business in Europe.

German gets ranking above that

Then Russian

Then Chinese

Then Arabic at top.

Reason Arabic is at top is very few non-Muslims learn it compared to Chinese so it's cooler and more lucrative.

I would also give points to someone learning something like Farsi, Pashto, Hausa or Sorani. It shows intellectual curiosity, independence of mind, and the ability to get stuck in with a foreign culture.

For example a white Jewish man conversational in Somali would be more interesting than a French-speaking Anglo, even though French is more useful.

This is because to me it's not the actual skills from the language but the personality traits that come with it.

[ElJefe]

(03-04-2013 08:35 AM)Kentucky Wrote:  

(03-04-2013 06:01 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

Isn't there automatic value in being a Spanish/Portuguese/Russian speaking Westerner (ie. Northern European)?

Can't speak for everyone but as an interviewer I can say that I'm not impressed by French or Spanish. Many people say they speak them and I see it as an 'easy language'. French is more useful for business in Europe.

German gets ranking above that

Then Russian

Then Chinese

Then Arabic at top.

Reason Arabic is at top is very few non-Muslims learn it compared to Chinese so it's cooler and more lucrative.

I would also give points to someone learning something like Farsi, Pashto, Hausa or Sorani. It shows intellectual curiosity, independence of mind, and the ability to get stuck in with a foreign culture.

For example a white Jewish man conversational in Somali would be more interesting than a French-speaking Anglo, even though French is more useful.

This is because to me it's not the actual skills from the language but the personality traits that come with it.

As an interviewer - where do you work - are your views representative, would you say?

I am applying for a rather tough two-year job that will involve learning fluent Russian. I'll have to take a break from grad school, but when I come back I want to finish my degree in Chile or Argentina.

My goal is speak fluent English, Russian, Spanish, Portuguese and Scandinavian (Norwegian/Danish/Swedish) by age 30 (I'm 26 now).

I was thinking that'd be kinda cool, but I get the feeling from you that'd it'd be hard to make money off those skills.

[NY Digital]

(03-04-2013 08:22 AM)rdvirus Wrote:  

(03-03-2013 05:02 PM)NY Digital Wrote:  

I'm learning Spanish right now. It's fairly easy, but granted I do know English and Polish already.

Next up after Spanish, I'd have to agree with other posters and say Chinese.

English is my first language and French is my second, I'm fairly fluent and can write in French but i haven't been using it so I'm rusty. Spanish is so close to French that I can usually figure out what it is that I'm hearing/reading. Something to keep in mind as either one will help you fast track into the other.

Is Polish your second language? My family is from Poland and I have some relatives still living there... I'd love to be able to pick up some basic conversational skills. Curious on some background into how hard it is to learn.

yeah i learned when I was a kid though. both from parents as well as grandmas who didn't speak English.

I learned grammar in this polish school thing once a week on Saturdays. it was really complex.

the language is difficult to learn, up there with Russian and Japanese. I would say knowing polish doesn't directly help me with Spanish or French, but knowing 2 languages gives me a better learning curve for any language reall.y. I want to learn Spanish and French as they are somewhat similar.

unless you really need to learn it(ie living there or marrying a polish girl) I don't recommend it as its somewhat difficult and the potential in business isn't as great as Chinese Russian or Arabic.

you need to check out Poland and see if you really like it.
check out pimsleur so you can get a feel for the language.

[Fujiwara]

My thoughts are that one day I'd like to have my Spanish and Russian as good as my English, and have a super fly Chinese-American girl from a traditional family be around as my Mandarin translator.

[Kentucky]

(03-04-2013 08:39 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

(03-04-2013 08:35 AM)Kentucky Wrote:  

(03-04-2013 06:01 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

Isn't there automatic value in being a Spanish/Portuguese/Russian speaking Westerner (ie. Northern European)?

Can't speak for everyone but as an interviewer I can say that I'm not impressed by French or Spanish. Many people say they speak them and I see it as an 'easy language'. French is more useful for business in Europe.

German gets ranking above that

Then Russian

Then Chinese

Then Arabic at top.

Reason Arabic is at top is very few non-Muslims learn it compared to Chinese so it's cooler and more lucrative.

I would also give points to someone learning something like Farsi, Pashto, Hausa or Sorani. It shows intellectual curiosity, independence of mind, and the ability to get stuck in with a foreign culture.

For example a white Jewish man conversational in Somali would be more interesting than a French-speaking Anglo, even though French is more useful.

This is because to me it's not the actual skills from the language but the personality traits that come with it.

As an interviewer - where do you work - are your views representative, would you say?

I am applying for a rather tough two-year job that will involve learning fluent Russian. I'll have to take a break from grad school, but when I come back I want to finish my degree in Chile or Argentina.

My goal is speak fluent English, Russian, Spanish, Portuguese and Scandinavian (Norwegian/Danish/Swedish) by age 30 (I'm 26 now).

I was thinking that'd be kinda cool, but I get the feeling from you that'd it'd be hard to make money off those skills.

I would rather not say where I work. I'm not sure if they are representative, however I am sure that Arabic/Russian Chinese spoken by ppl not from those backgrounds is highly valued and a great conversation piece in the interview

I think your goals are good, Scandinavia is where everyone is flocking for work. Norway has a huge sovereign wealth fund so would be particularly useful