[Beyond Borders]

(02-24-2013 01:08 AM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(02-23-2013 11:00 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

I should have never brought up the Ferrari! lol

I consider myself pretty alpha, I did stiff leg deadlifts this morning and I drive a Nissan Xterra 5 speed that gets me 12 miles to the gallon. I have two options in my life:

A) Work on making that first million. Aka, better job, more books, businesses, etc
B) Accept more minimalism

Choice B is too easy for me. At least with choice (A) I can say I tried.

Will being rich make me happy? No. But what the f@ck do I have better to do with my free time? lol

Don't see that a and b conflict. In fact, they seem to go together.

Extremely true, actually. I failed to mention that, but most of the richest people got there, and stay there, because of minimalism. Studies show this over and over again.

[cardguy]

I remember George Foreman once saying it is easier to lose a hundred million dollars. Than it is to lose a million dollars.

[sixsix]

(02-23-2013 02:18 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

Why do you need to be happy? Men aren't supposed to be happy, I haven't been happy since 3rd grade.

Do you think cavemen were happy when they had to start a fire in the freezing cold?

You're mistaking "We haven't evolved to be happy all the time" with "We're not evolved to be happy at all."

While it's true we don't need to always be happier than the day before like the magazines tell us, happiness is our main biological motivator. Why do you think sex and food induced dopamine in the pleasure center feels so good in the first place?

You enjoy the fruits of your labor for a bit, and then indeed on to the next one.

Also, you can be a filthy rich and powerful minimalist.

I aspire to becoming rich and powerful, because I love having the best of everything: girls, food, cars, houses, vacations, trips.

But I wouldn't need a lot of junk.

Beautiful house, with a couple of sharp pieces of furniture and a motor bike on the drive way. No shit lying around. Peace of mind.

[Acute Angle]

Beyond Borders: "you have to consider the opportunity cost of ambition"

I love that - is it original?

Guys, I spent a lot of my life trying to excel, trying to be famous and rich. I hated the idea of being an ordinary Joe. I have a number of decent accomplishments to my name, but they only made me happy for a few days after each one.

The day I realised that contentment was within my grasp was the day I realised that I am ordinary. I'm never going to be a billionaire, never going to win a Nobel prize, will never write that Pulitzer-winning novel, and will never be an Alpha. And that's just fine.

That may seem like an admission of defeat, but for me it was essential to see that my ambition was blind. I was trying to be rich and famous to make up for the fact that I was alienated from myself. Now my prime objective is simply to be extremely myself, whatever triumph or turmoil that may entail.

If someone dropped a load of money in my lap, I would be delighted. Not for the things it could buy me, but for the experiences I would be able to afford; experiences that would teach me more about myself and my world. But I'm not going to distort myself in any major way to grasp at riches. Of course, I'm lucky that I have sufficient money to live comfortably right now - I recognise that for many people that is not the case. Self-actualization is a luxury I can afford.

Be clear: I'm not saying ambition is wrong, if that's in alignment with your true character then go for it. Just recognise that if it isn't a core part of you, then it does have an opportunity cost.

[Walderschmidt]

(02-23-2013 05:54 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

To each their own. I was happiest when I was about 23, unemployed, living on my friends couch, living in a stoner/skater den. I had a dresser with some clothes and a bunch of CDs. I drove a '93 buick LeSabre. I wasn't getting laid. I can say with the utmost of my being that was the happiest I've ever been.

I had noone to answer to; nothing to maintain. I could wake up and think, "What am I doing today?" I didn't even have an answer to that question. I wouldn't have been happy doing that forever, but that's still the happiest I've ever been.

My life is the opposite now. I have a sweet apartment, live by myself, own everything that I could want (besides uber expensive toys), my car is paid off, I'm highly liquid. I could live for a year without having to think about money or work the entire time and probably throw in a couple trips in there. I'm happy now, highly content. I haven't worried about paying rent anytime in the last two years; that's been liberating for someone that struggled with that shit for the better part of a decade.

But nothing beats the feeling of attachment to nothing. Think about it like this:

Would you rather be happy because you have stuff?
Or would you rather be happy because you have nothing? Think about that.

I'd prefer the second.

I'm sure people can understand your point because it is inferred, but I feel like stating it anyway.

I would rather being happy with nothing, because nobody can ever take it away from me. The only person responsible for my happiness would be me. Only I would be able to influence it.

If owning things makes you happy, then other people can take your happiness away or destroy it.

Wald

[cardguy]

That is how I feel as well.

Indeed - I sometimes think it is better to kill your dreams. Before your dreams kill you.

You need to ask yourself if you really want to be in your 40s and 50s still slaving away in some crappy band, or working odd jobs so they can spend more time on your crappy novel. I know alot of people like this and it seems a bit sad to me. For me - it was a relief when I woke up one day and no longer gave a fuck about doing something 'great' with my life.

I feel sorry that their insecurity drives them to plow through so much shit. Just in the hopes of getting a lucky break that will finally give them so form of self validation.

Still - respect to those who can make it happen. All my favourite music and movies wouldn't exist without them.

[void]

(02-23-2013 09:35 PM)Faust Wrote:  

Thing you gotta remember is that 30k a year in the US in 2013 gives you the kind of shit that an Egyptian king would fucking kill for. You live in NY, don't you CaptainPower? I've read your blog a few times.

1.) You've got access to more cultural shit than anybody has had any time in history. You've got more available works of art in a 50 mile radius than Louie XIV had in his whole life.
2.) Art not your thing? A single public library has more books than you could read in a lifetime, and there are a ton in NY.
3.) Not a big reader? You can get any movie or any song you want to hear off the internet for a pittance, or if it doesn't bother you, you can get it for free illegally.
4.) You've got access to medical care that was unheard of even 30 years ago. The richest dude in the world 30 years ago couldn't get the kind of treatments that are now available to you.
5.) You eat incredibly well. The idea of "seasonal" foods now mean nothing to you. You want an orange in the middle of winter? Buy a half dozen for 3 bucks. Raspberries out of season? Obscure shit like Dragonfruit that nobody had ever even heard of 20 years ago? Any time you want. I doubt there's been a famine in the US during the lifetime of anybody reading this board.
6.) You're a good looking guy (no homo!) with game in a place with more single, unattached women looking to get laid than anywhere on the planet.

You, my friend, are in the top .001% of every person who has ever lived. So you gotta wonder how much a Ferrari is really going to do to make you happier.

1. you can't consume and experience all the possibilities offered to you, demise of the choice
2. comparing things only works in the immediate environment. if you are a millionaire in a billionaires club you are low tier (oversimplified). if you are a millionaire in a average crowd, your god.
you can only achieve happiness/satisfaction if you compare yourself to your immediate environment, and get out on top.
if you start to compare yourself "worldwide", you will always be miserable if you cant accept, that there will always be someone better

accepting this mindset will kill your motivation and drive to succeed and improve tho, learning to gain satisfaction by the process of improvement is more sustainable

[Walderschmidt]

(02-24-2013 11:07 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

That is how I feel as well.

Indeed - I sometimes think it is better to kill your dreams. Before your dreams kill you.

You need to ask yourself if you really want to be in your 40s and 50s still slaving away in some crappy band, or working odd jobs so they can spend more time on your crappy novel. I know alot of people like this and it seems a bit sad to me. For me - it was a relief when I woke up one day and no longer gave a fuck about doing something 'great' with my life.

I feel sorry that their insecurity drives them to plow through so much shit. Just in the hopes of getting a lucky break that will finally give them so form of self validation.

Still - respect to those who can make it happen. All my favourite music and movies wouldn't exist without them.

I don't feel the need to kill my dreams. My dreams aren't centered around owning stuff, but being something and achieving things.

[TheCaptainPower]

My role model is Arnold Schwarzenegger, the exact opposite of a "minimalist"

He was a millionaire by 30, he didn't need to keep bodybuilding or even acting. He could have just focused on his real estate investments and chilled out at the beach, but he didn't settle.

[Walderschmidt]

(02-24-2013 11:46 AM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

My role model is Arnold Schwarzenegger, the exact opposite of a "minimalist"

He was a millionaire by 30, he didn't need to keep bodybuilding or even acting. He could have just focused on his real estate investments and chilled out at the beach, but he didn't settle.

Okay - I can understand. Arnold Schwarzenegger is your role model for making it big and doing great things.

He's a role model of mine too.

My question is, who's your role model for settling down and enjoying the fruits of your labor?

Wald

[TheCaptainPower]

Role model for settling down? That's a tough one. Maybe Jay-Z? Have to respect him too, he made enough money off his projects that he doesnt have to really hustle anymore. He can chill out and go to sporting events, work with other artists, bang Beyonce.

[bacon]

minimalism to me is freedom.

before i left the US to go live abroad i sold or gave away almost everything i owned. it was a cathartic experience that was not so easy at the time. but i managed after the selling i got everything i owned to fit into 2 suitcases. since i spent the last few years living in furnished apartments my stuff has not grown. sure ive replace clothing but i still can fit all my possessions into those bags. doing this has really made me question the importance/need of something before i buy it and that has made me a terrible consumer. but even now with as little stuff as i own when i think about what i need it really is just a passport and some credit/debit cards. thats it, everything else i need can be aquired at the local mall in an afternoons time.

[brianmark]

(02-23-2013 02:32 PM)Wool Suit Wrote:  

(02-23-2013 02:18 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

Why do you need to be happy? Men aren't supposed to be happy, I haven't been happy since 3rd grade.

I'm sorry to hear that. Duty is important, of course, and much of life isn't happy, but I can't disagree more with your statement that we aren't supposed to be happy. In the end, nothing else really matters.

As to the minimalism, also disagree heavily. I'm 25, make a lower-range six figures, don't own a car, prepay everything, and all my worldly belongings could fit in two suitcases. I could clear this room in 20 minutes flat, walk out the door, and never look back.

The stuff you own ends up owning you.

If I were a deca-millionaire would I buy a bunch of expensive toys? Maybe, maybe not.

I came to realize it's experiences that are worth paying for. Not owning a lot of stuff makes me happy. To each their own, of course.

I’ve lived both ways:  materialism and minimalism.  Having  a nice house, nice car, and beautiful things will always help anywhere in the world.  I’ve never met a girl in any country that would prefer a poor broke looking guy.  I’ve also lived the minimalist lifestyle and lived out of suitcase for long periods of time.  If this lifestyle will allow me to live in an exotic country then it is certainly worth it.

Heaven: American salary, English house, Chinese food; Russian & Thai lovers, no wife
Hell: -----Russian salary, Chinese house, English food; American, Filipina, & Russian wives

[Walderschmidt]

(02-24-2013 01:08 PM)brianmark Wrote:  

(02-23-2013 02:32 PM)Wool Suit Wrote:  

(02-23-2013 02:18 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

Why do you need to be happy? Men aren't supposed to be happy, I haven't been happy since 3rd grade.

I'm sorry to hear that. Duty is important, of course, and much of life isn't happy, but I can't disagree more with your statement that we aren't supposed to be happy. In the end, nothing else really matters.

As to the minimalism, also disagree heavily. I'm 25, make a lower-range six figures, don't own a car, prepay everything, and all my worldly belongings could fit in two suitcases. I could clear this room in 20 minutes flat, walk out the door, and never look back.

The stuff you own ends up owning you.

If I were a deca-millionaire would I buy a bunch of expensive toys? Maybe, maybe not.

I came to realize it's experiences that are worth paying for. Not owning a lot of stuff makes me happy. To each their own, of course.

I’ve lived both ways:  materialism and minimalism.  Having  a nice house, nice car, and beautiful things will always help anywhere in the world.  I’ve never met a girl in any country that would prefer a poor broke looking guy.  I’ve also lived the minimalist lifestyle and lived out of suitcase for long periods of time.  If this lifestyle will allow me to live in an exotic country then it is certainly worth it.

Heaven: American salary, English house, Chinese food; Russian & Thai lovers, no wife
Hell: -----Russian salary, Chinese house, English food; American, Filipina, & Russian wives

Why would a Filipina or Russian wife be hell?

Looks like you just don't want a wife at all (though I agree with the American wife part).

Wald

[Blackhawk]

The problem with minimalism, and much more with frugality, is The Fable of the Bees.

If no one is buying anything, then nothing is bought. If nothing is bought, all the businesses close. And then no one is employed.

A society can afford the occasional Diogenes foreswearing all material goods to the point of living naked in a huge clay jar. But once too many follow suit, the economy collapses.

Steve Jobs liked minimalism, but his kind of minimalism didn't come cheap, and he actually paid a lot for it. How many of us would spend millions to reduce three buttons on a mouse to one button?

[brianmark]

(02-24-2013 01:14 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(02-24-2013 01:08 PM)brianmark Wrote:  

(02-23-2013 02:32 PM)Wool Suit Wrote:  

(02-23-2013 02:18 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

Why do you need to be happy? Men aren't supposed to be happy, I haven't been happy since 3rd grade.

I'm sorry to hear that. Duty is important, of course, and much of life isn't happy, but I can't disagree more with your statement that we aren't supposed to be happy. In the end, nothing else really matters.

As to the minimalism, also disagree heavily. I'm 25, make a lower-range six figures, don't own a car, prepay everything, and all my worldly belongings could fit in two suitcases. I could clear this room in 20 minutes flat, walk out the door, and never look back.

The stuff you own ends up owning you.

If I were a deca-millionaire would I buy a bunch of expensive toys? Maybe, maybe not.

I came to realize it's experiences that are worth paying for. Not owning a lot of stuff makes me happy. To each their own, of course.

I’ve lived both ways:  materialism and minimalism.  Having  a nice house, nice car, and beautiful things will always help anywhere in the world.  I’ve never met a girl in any country that would prefer a poor broke looking guy.  I’ve also lived the minimalist lifestyle and lived out of suitcase for long periods of time.  If this lifestyle will allow me to live in an exotic country then it is certainly worth it.

Heaven: American salary, English house, Chinese food; Russian & Thai lovers, no wife
Hell: -----Russian salary, Chinese house, English food; American, Filipina, & Russian wives

Why would a Filipina or Russian wife be hell?

Looks like you just don't want a wife at all (though I agree with the American wife part).

Wald

Yes, I prefer to be single. I have been in long term relationships with both Russians and Filipinas. They are both conners and cheaters. Lying in both of these cultures is thought of as normal. There is a 90% divorce rate with Russian wives. Most of the Filipinas and Russians just come over and upgrade as soon as they can get a bigger hitter. Lots of drama from women from these too cultures, especially Filipinas. I wrote two blogpost on Russian conning.

http://partytravelsexlove.com/2012/10/13...he-conner/

http://partytravelsexlove.com/2012/10/02...-get-real/

I'd say marry one at your own risk!

[Walderschmidt]

(02-24-2013 01:26 PM)brianmark Wrote:  

Yes, I prefer to be single. I have been in long term relationships with both Russians and Filipinas. They are both conners and cheaters. Lying in both of these cultures is thought of as normal. There is a 90% divorce rate with Russian wives. Most of the Filipinas and Russians just come over and upgrade as soon as they can get a bigger hitter. Lots of drama from women from these too cultures, especially Filipinas. I wrote two blogpost on Russian conning.

http://partytravelsexlove.com/2012/10/13...he-conner/

http://partytravelsexlove.com/2012/10/02...-get-real/

I'd say marry one at your own risk!

What if you married one and stayed in their home country?

Wald

[brianmark]

(02-24-2013 01:42 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(02-24-2013 01:26 PM)brianmark Wrote:  

Yes, I prefer to be single. I have been in long term relationships with both Russians and Filipinas. They are both conners and cheaters. Lying in both of these cultures is thought of as normal. There is a 90% divorce rate with Russian wives. Most of the Filipinas and Russians just come over and upgrade as soon as they can get a bigger hitter. Lots of drama from women from these too cultures, especially Filipinas. I wrote two blogpost on Russian conning.

http://partytravelsexlove.com/2012/10/13...he-conner/

http://partytravelsexlove.com/2012/10/02...-get-real/

I'd say marry one at your own risk!

What if you married one and stayed in their home country?

Wald

I had both of my LTRs in their countries. They were both great experiences. Unfortunately lying and cheating are common in FSU and SE Asian countries. I caught both of my GFs cheating, the Ukrainian while we were living together and the Filipina when I was away. I am very intuitive and an average guy who was madly in love wouldn't have caught either of them.

[Walderschmidt]

(02-24-2013 01:54 PM)brianmark Wrote:  

I had both of my LTRs in their countries. They were both great experiences. Unfortunately lying and cheating are common in FSU and SE Asian countries. I caught both of my GFs cheating, the Ukrainian while we were living together and the Filipina when I was away. I am very intuitive and an average guy who was madly in love wouldn't have caught either of them.

Fair enough. If I ever get married (god forbid, haha), it would be at 38, after I have plenty of experience with women to the point where I am, in theory, intuitive enough to avoid the most dangerous pitfalls.

Of course, I will never marry in a country that speaks English as a native language.

I'm still developing my ideas on this, but there you go.

Wald

[germanico]

(02-24-2013 01:16 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  

A society can afford the occasional Diogenes

I was about to quote Diogenes telling Alexander to move aside.

I agree with both sides. I like having the nicer things in life. I also like having less crap in my life.

Could it be that we agree on being "minimalist millionaires"? I cant afford a cellar with a million dollar wine collection, but Id rather drink one good whiskey than having a fridge full of coronas and wine coolers.

[username]

(02-24-2013 01:16 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  

If no one is buying anything, then nothing is bought. If nothing is bought, all the businesses close. And then no one is employed.

I don't think we need to worry about this. Going minimalist is fairly red pill. All day, everyday, all of us are under a constant barrage of advertising and media that tells us to buy the latest thing, the most expensive, the most amazing. The majority will always embrace this as long as they have money or credit. I read somewhere that the savings rate here in the United States hovers around 1%. At least here in the US, people are not naturally minimalist.

A number widely quoted on the internet, I don't know its source, but it states that 75% of all consumer purchases are done by women. Women by nature are natural collectors of meaning crap. It is also highly unlikely women will ever go red pill because they are natural followers of society.

The impact of one person going minimalist has no impact at all on the economy. The impact of even 1 million people going minimalist in a country of 315 million is pretty insignificant. That 1 million is only 0.3% of the economy.

In the extremely highly unlikely event that 10% of all men, 15 million guys, all became minimalist using the 75% number above this would only have a 2.5% drop in consumer purchases assuming that they stopped all economic activity which is impossible unless they killed themselves. Minimalist will still buy food, clothes, and necessary consumer goods like soap and tooth paste. Also need to mention housing, minimalist don't all just go quit and live in tents in the forest.

Like I said above, going minimalist where we are not ruled by things and spending money but we live our own life on our terms is pretty damn red pill. Minimalism is considered pretty weird by mainstream society. "What you don't want to buy the new iPhone 6? Are you crazy man? You are buying a used car? Are you nuts? You need the new 2014 model." I think as long as the economy continues along without big issues there will be no voluntary shift of people to become minimalist.

[Beyond Borders]

(02-24-2013 01:16 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  

If no one is buying anything, then nothing is bought. If nothing is bought, all the businesses close. And then no one is employed.

I believe this to be a myth. Even if people didn't spend the way they do today, there would still be a huge need for products and services. In fact, many of the minimalists I know actually spend far more money than others on the things they do buy. They're willing to pay for quality that lasts.

This idea that we need to spend, spend, spend in order to sustain our society is a bullshit lie fed to us by our culture.

Just look at the debt the average American has, and how that debt turns them into a slave. Look at the debt problems of the American government, which continues to spend too much on stupid bullshit and waste money through incompetence and bureaucratic friction even while neck deep in debt.

Have these cultural actions and habits made us function any better as a society?

What's going on in America today should give a far better picture of what happens when we embrace consumerism than some hypothetical scenario of minimalism crippling the economy.

[slubu]

You can be happy either way, it comes down to what everyone desires for themselves. Reminds me of this: http://www.returnofkings.com/3961/a-tale-of-two-men

Personally, I prefer the minimalist lifestyle having lived both. I think OP and a few others confuse minimalism with laziness. There's a lot of shit you don't need. Some people never realize that, others go through phases like myself where they rid themselves of most tangential things and see what happens.

[Rah]

A large portion of the economy being made up of things that aren't actual necessities is a relatively recent phenomenon of the past century.

[Beyond Borders]

(02-24-2013 09:12 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:  

Beyond Borders: "you have to consider the opportunity cost of ambition"

I love that - is it original?

These particular thoughts can be attributed to the book, "Early Retirement Extreme." I can't remember if he actually worded it that way specifically. The calculations on the cost of driving come from that author too.

(02-24-2013 11:46 AM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

My role model is Arnold Schwarzenegger, the exact opposite of a "minimalist"

He was a millionaire by 30, he didn't need to keep bodybuilding or even acting. He could have just focused on his real estate investments and chilled out at the beach, but he didn't settle.

(02-24-2013 11:57 AM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

Role model for settling down? That's a tough one. Maybe Jay-Z? Have to respect him too, he made enough money off his projects that he doesnt have to really hustle anymore. He can chill out and go to sporting events, work with other artists, bang Beyonce.

I find it a bit strange that you're using these celebrities as examples. Just out of curiousity, are you planning to become a celebrity?

(02-24-2013 01:16 PM)Blackhawk Wrote:  

The problem with minimalism, and much more with frugality, is The Fable of the Bees.

A society can afford the occasional Diogenes foreswearing all material goods to the point of living naked in a huge clay jar. But once too many follow suit, the economy collapses.

That's just it though. This idea that minimalism requiring the decision to forsake all possessions and live in a clay jar detracts from the truth. It's BS and suggests that people who say things like "fuck minimalism" haven't yet taken the time to explore ideas contrary to theirs. Their arguments are against an idea they don't even understand.