[Djonna]

This is my first thread here, so I might be a little "off base" as to what the posting interest is.... But, here goes.

As a woman in the dating world, I have come to a conclusion that there are thousands of lonely people out who are mostly men looking for a woman to have sex with; and, I'm not so sure those men are actually looking to settle down. I've heard some horror stories from male friends about meeting women online that would probably curl your toes. It's not the women that have stories to tell; it's the men, too. What happened to the world of dating and having a full blown relationship?

The dating scene has taken on a whole new twist called the internet. Yes, it's opened a lot of doors. We meet people, that under normal circumstances, we most likely would not have met; but, it's also brought on a lot of players; wanna be's; and, dishonesty. Normal circumstances? It's normal now.... Internet Dating.... Yes. It's the way of the world.... Our jobs; our lives; our children.... The internet....

I've been a member on a few dating sites for several years; and, I have to admit, I haven't met one man that I actually felt had his chit together; that I felt was honest; or isn't in financial chaos. Granted, we all have baggage; if you think for a minute you're gonna get lucky and find "Mr. Perfect" or "Ms. Perfect" it isn't going to happen overnight. It does happen on occasion, but those stories are far and few between reality moments.

I'm not so sure that internet dating is the way to go if you're truly looking for a mate. I've met some special friends; and, those friends are still my friends. But, the men that I've met over the last ten years are not men that I would consider being in a long term relationship with. The old saying, "All the good men are either married or gay"? Just might be the honest to goodness truth.

I don't think there's an easy answer for this new way of "dating".... One has to weed through the hundreds to find "one" that just might be who they say they are. Men, now-a-days, don't appear to want to "date" as much as they want to just have "sex". It's quick; cheap; but, not always; and, fulfilling. For me, that's a problem. I think for most women that's become a problem. For the most part, women aren't made this way. We like to be dated; taken out to dinner; bought flowers and we like the romance.... We're not getting that so it leaves us feeling empty and most often times feeling "used" and uncertain. But? I also understand men. The male species.... ahhh.... mate with as many females as possible. It's mating season and open season on the "net".

One thing that I've learned over the years about online dating, is to NOT take it serious. The first time I joined a dating site, I was new; and, had no idea what I was in for. It opened my eyes and opened them quick. I have a new prospective now. I enjoy writing and blogging; and, am there to do just that. The "dating" aspect is in the by side.... It makes life a whole lot less complicated and I've made some really great friends just through blogging. Being happy with who we are and what we have to offer the "world" as a whole and being content with that, may just be the answers to the online dating dilemma, until Mr. Perfect or Ms. Perfect finds us. It will happen.

Online dating.... It can open windows of opportunity, but close them just as quickly. Proceed with caution....

This is my opinion and I'm stickin' to it.

[X-Factor]

I respect your opinion. Allow me to respond to a point or two.

The issue I have with your post in general is your assertion that women like to be "dated" and wined and dined and all that. That's fine. Nearly every woman will say this; it's nothing new. I actually agree with it. Women DO liked to be treated this way.

However, the problem is that oftentimes, what women "want" and what they are "attracted to" are two completely different things. Please understand that I'm talking about two completely different things: want and attraction. Women "want" to be wined and dined, and bought flowers and little gifts and all that shit. But they are attracted to guys that treat them like "crap" (as many women put it). And by treating them like "crap", I'm talking about not giving them all the attention they require. Women want a guy that leads and is assertive, confident, and secure. Many men that fit this bill have high social status and power. That's what women are REALLY attracted to: status and power.

You may disagree with me, but I learned a long time ago never to take dating advice ABOUT a woman, FROM a woman.

Respect.

[zorgon]

The basic problem about Internet dating, from my point of view as a guy, is that you send 10 emails, get maybe 1 reply on average, and then she flakes out about 2/3 of the time before you even go on a date. Or, you may get a single response to your profile from a girl every few months. Other guys I know have had similar experiences.

"I haven't met one man that I actually felt had his chit together; that I felt was honest; or isn't in financial chaos" -- well, I can assure you they're out there. It's just that those guys are probably the "nice guys" that, as X-Factor says, you are not attracted to and put in the "friend" category.

[nwo4life]

Online is tough cause any hot girl gets so much mail odds are she might not even be able to read most of it...if she can even read to begin with lol.

And yeah I agree with the two replies above. The harder a guy tries to impress a girl, the less results he gets.

[Djonna]

(09-27-2008 12:01 PM)X-Factor Wrote:  

I respect your opinion. Allow me to respond to a point or two.

The issue I have with your post in general is your assertion that women like to be "dated" and wined and dined and all that. That's fine. Nearly every woman will say this; it's nothing new. I actually agree with it. Women DO liked to be treated this way.

However, the problem is that oftentimes, what women "want" and what they are "attracted to" are two completely different things. Please understand that I'm talking about two completely different things: want and attraction. Women "want" to be wined and dined, and bought flowers and little gifts and all that shit. But they are attracted to guys that treat them like "crap" (as many women put it). And by treating them like "crap", I'm talking about not giving them all the attention they require. Women want a guy that leads and is assertive, confident, and secure. Many men that fit this bill have high social status and power. That's what women are REALLY attracted to: status and power.

You may disagree with me, but I learned a long time ago never to take dating advice ABOUT a woman, FROM a woman.

Respect.

I'm not really giving dating advice; just giving my opinion. I fully agree with women wanting, for some unknown reason, men that treat them like crap. That's true; absolutely. I'm one of those women; but, have tried to "note" those characteristics. Men are the same. If you have a man that dates a woman and they treat a man like crap? That man is going to try his darnedest to keep after her. A woman that's there for him, more than likely, will get kicked to the curb. It's called the "dating game". We so often say we don't like to play games, but who doesn't? Thanks for sharing your opinion. I appreciate it.

[Djonna]

(09-27-2008 12:46 PM)zorgon Wrote:  

The basic problem about Internet dating, from my point of view as a guy, is that you send 10 emails, get maybe 1 reply on average, and then she flakes out about 2/3 of the time before you even go on a date. Or, you may get a single response to your profile from a girl every few months. Other guys I know have had similar experiences.

"I haven't met one man that I actually felt had his chit together; that I felt was honest; or isn't in financial chaos" -- well, I can assure you they're out there. It's just that those guys are probably the "nice guys" that, as X-Factor says, you are not attracted to and put in the "friend" category.

I would have to say that you're correct on the email return. But, I also, think it's the email itself that a man sends that will either prompt a return or not. I always try to answer my emails; but, some of the replys for rejection aren't very nice. Then you have the man that keeps sending emails day after day after day. The woman doesn't respond; the man keeps on sending emails? What is he NOT seeing. Also, what I find very distasteful is "cock" pictures on profiles. Women and men view nudity different. Men, by far, enjoy viewing naked women; I don't think that's true of woman. We'd rather see a nice "butt" shot or "chest" shot than a cock picture. In closing, from my experience, too, women are overwhelmed with the amount of email. If we responded to each and every one, we'd be online 24/7. It's just not possible. I try; but, I don't always respond to the ones that continuously send a parade of ongoing emails. The ratio of men to women is astounding in the internet dating scene. These are just my opinions and views and may not be those of others.

[Trotter]

The ratio of men to women in terms of Internet dating depends on exactly what places you frequent to find dates. Any man that looks for dates on dating websites is simply doing the wrong thing; no question about it. The issue with dating websites is that, because the world knows it's basically a sausage fest of guys looking to get laid, those sites are usually riddled with porn bots and not real women. If you look at sites such as Match, Eharmony, and Chemistry (sites reputed to be legit) the issue there is the quality of potential dates is extremely diminished.

The lesson here is don't join Internet dating sites hoping to find dates. Unless, you don't mind rifling through tons of worthless prospects on sites like the above mentioned. I've found other sites to be more active in terms of Internet dating such as chat rooms. I've witnessed more hookups, dating, and marriages result from chat rooms than I've seen through dating sites. I've even indulged a few times and have had several hookups, and one LTR, as a result. The great thing about most chat rooms is that it's free!

Plus there's the distinct advantage of actually being able to see whom you're speaking with via web cams, real profiles, and you can attain a greater sense of familiarity with chat rooms with voice. I liken a lot of chat rooms to an e-bar because that's exactly what they are. Anyhow, that's just one of a few different places on the web you can screen and meet potential dates.

There is one website called Woome.com that's a little different from mainstream dating sites. It's structured more like a chat website with webcams and voice. People can view and chat with one another then decide if whomever they're speaking with is "Woooing" them. And from there you can give them stars or something like that. I haven't tried it myself but I've considered looking at it out of curiosity.

X-Factor hit the nail on the head with his observation.

[broken]

I have absolutely no sympathy for women when it comes to dating.

[Djonna]

(09-27-2008 03:47 PM)Trotter Wrote:  

The ratio of men to women in terms of Internet dating depends on exactly what places you frequent to find dates. Any man that looks for dates on dating websites is simply doing the wrong thing; no question about it. The issue with dating websites is that, because the world knows it's basically a sausage fest of guys looking to get laid, those sites are usually riddled with porn bots and not real women. If you look at sites such as Match, Eharmony, and Chemistry (sites reputed to be legit) the issue there is the quality of potential dates is extremely diminished.

The lesson here is don't join Internet dating sites hoping to find dates. Unless, you don't mind rifling through tons of worthless prospects on sites like the above mentioned. I've found other sites to be more active in terms of Internet dating such as chat rooms. I've witnessed more hookups, dating, and marriages result from chat rooms than I've seen through dating sites. I've even indulged a few times and have had several hookups, and one LTR, as a result. The great thing about most chat rooms is that it's free!

Plus there's the distinct advantage of actually being able to see whom you're speaking with via web cams, real profiles, and you can attain a greater sense of familiarity with chat rooms with voice. I liken a lot of chat rooms to an e-bar because that's exactly what they are. Anyhow, that's just one of a few different places on the web you can screen and meet potential dates.

There is one website called Woome.com that's a little different from mainstream dating sites. It's structured more like a chat website with webcams and voice. People can view and chat with one another then decide if whomever they're speaking with is "Woooing" them. And from there you can give them stars or something like that. I haven't tried it myself but I've considered looking at it out of curiosity.

X-Factor hit the nail on the head with his observation.

I'll have to check that out. BookofMatches and PlentyOfFish are a couple sites that are pretty good. AdultFriendFinder is a massive "meat" market.

[X-Factor]

I tried Match for awhile as a dating vehicle because I travel so much. Often I'm in a different state or out of the country, and tried it to see what the hub-bub was. I can tell you, from my personal experience, that dating websites are a HUGE waste of time. It's a numbers game, and who has the time to sift through all the profiles and send intro emails and "winks" or whatever bullshit they have.

After awhile, I became so amused by the outlandish requests of women that I quit actively pursuing the women on these sites but continued to read some of their profiles for the sheer comedy and absurdity of it all.

"I want a guy that is at least two inches taller than me (I like to wear heels!), has short hair (but not TOO short), preferably blonde surfer-type. They must be mature emotionally, yet have the wonder of a child. They must like to go out, yet also like to spend a quiet evening at home. They should be able to keep up with me! I love music and I like to laugh a lot, so my man should too. They must know when to pamper me, and when to give me my space."

Allow me to translate this...

"preferably blonde-surfer type" = "I like a bad boy."

"Must be mature emotionally, yet have the wonder of a child" = (Actually, I'm not sure what that means yet. I'm still deciphering it in my lab. I have a team of grad students and research assistants working on it.)

"They must like to go out, but also spend a quiet evening at home" = The man must do what I want to do, when I want to do it. If I want to go out on Friday night and get wasted while I parade you around to those other 'bitches', then spend my Saturday night hung over on the couch watching movies, that is what we will do. : )

"They should be able to keep up with me!" = Again, we will do WHAT I want, WHEN I want. Got it, bud?

"I love music and I like to laugh" = (No translation here. It's nonsensical jibberish. Who DOESN'T like to laugh, or like some kind of music?)

"They must know when to pamper me, and when to give me my space." = "I want you to read my fukking mind. You should KNOW when to buy me shit, and when to leave me alone. Buy me dinner, then let me go out with my friends to 'girl's night' at the club while I grind with strange men on a full stomach of lobster and wine."



Now, I say most of this with tongue-in-cheek. But there are some kernals of truth hidden in there. Women's expectations and demands have become so outrageous that it has become a joke and a punchline. Online dating sites just seem to magnify this problem.

Thoughts anyone?

[Djonna]

(09-27-2008 07:37 PM)X-Factor Wrote:  

I tried Match for awhile as a dating vehicle because I travel so much. Often I'm in a different state or out of the country, and tried it to see what the hub-bub was. I can tell you, from my personal experience, that dating websites are a HUGE waste of time. It's a numbers game, and who has the time to sift through all the profiles and send intro emails and "winks" or whatever bullshit they have.

After awhile, I became so amused by the outlandish requests of women that I quit actively pursuing the women on these sites but continued to read some of their profiles for the sheer comedy and absurdity of it all.

"I want a guy that is at least two inches taller than me (I like to wear heels!), has short hair (but not TOO short), preferably blonde surfer-type. They must be mature emotionally, yet have the wonder of a child. They must like to go out, yet also like to spend a quiet evening at home. They should be able to keep up with me! I love music and I like to laugh a lot, so my man should too. They must know when to pamper me, and when to give me my space."

Allow me to translate this...

"preferably blonde-surfer type" = "I like a bad boy."

"Must be mature emotionally, yet have the wonder of a child" = (Actually, I'm not sure what that means yet. I'm still deciphering it in my lab. I have a team of grad students and research assistants working on it.)

"They must like to go out, but also spend a quiet evening at home" = The man must do what I want to do, when I want to do it. If I want to go out on Friday night and get wasted while I parade you around to those other 'bitches', then spend my Saturday night hung over on the couch watching movies, that is what we will do. : )

"They should be able to keep up with me!" = Again, we will do WHAT I want, WHEN I want. Got it, bud?

"I love music and I like to laugh" = (No translation here. It's nonsensical jibberish. Who DOESN'T like to laugh, or like some kind of music?)

"They must know when to pamper me, and when to give me my space." = "I want you to read my fukking mind. You should KNOW when to buy me shit, and when to leave me alone. Buy me dinner, then let me go out with my friends to 'girl's night' at the club while I grind with strange men on a full stomach of lobster and wine."

Now, I say most of this with tongue-in-cheek. But there are some kernals of truth hidden in there. Women's expectations and demands have become so outrageous that it has become a joke and a punchline. Online dating sites just seem to magnify this problem.

Thoughts anyone?

My Ideal Person:

Traits that I do consider when meeting a man are: I look for an honest and sincere man. A man who knows himself and what he wants and knows how to keep it.... a man with true integrity; kindness and a good heart.... He will understand just how important communication is in any/our relationship. He must be open, honest and be able to come to me anytime/ anywhere, about anything; and, trust that I will always be there to listen and to talk. My ideal man must be able and ready to make compromises and sacrifices in order for us to have a healthy relationship. He will also realize there will be periods of adjustments throughout the relationship; especially in the beginning when we are learning about each other. If we are not open and communicating we will never be able to take care of each others wants and needs.

He will know how to treat a lady as she deserves to be treated in and out of the bedroom. I am very open minded and will try anything once; yet want to feel I can laugh with my partner if we happen to "goof" it up or make fools of ourselves! Love and sex are supposed to be fun; not complicated and boring. I am looking for a man who loves to laugh, too, and who can be spontaneous.

[X-Factor]

That's all very well and good, madame. I think those are admirable traits indeed. However, I am going to refer back to my original assertion that what women want and what women are attracted to are two completely different things. This is all part of the bigger idea of looking at what people do, and not what they say (regardless of gender).

Whether you admit it to yourself or not, you want a man that is strong and confident; a man who leads. Deep down, in places you may not want to talk about, you understand this.

Here's an example of a new-age sensitive guy. Maybe a guy has doubts about this or that. Maybe he's unsure of himself and a little insecure about a possible promotion at work or something in his personal life. This guy comes to you and vomits his insecurties on to you, because you told him to be open and trusting. How many guys have broken down and cried in front of a woman, and spilled their guts, and that woman turns out to respect him more? Not very many.

Here's the bottom line: Women screw "bad boys", but marry "nice guys." And even then, with the marriage statistics as they are, the marriage is a coin flip.

[Chick]

Forget online dating. Go meet real people.

[twigman]

(09-27-2008 10:16 PM)Chick Wrote:  

Forget online dating. Go meet real people.

Online dating is a waste of time.

That said I do it - why? Because its great practice and I've got better at dating from it. I put minimal effort in - and it works for me. The girls like it more too the less I email and say to them before the date.

My problem with it is : It eliminates the approach and frankly alot of guys are like trying for the easy way to meet women, but they soon discover it isn't easy to build attraction from net dating.

Also, lots of women who are getting way more attention than they deserve. Let me tell you about the fat chick who said she loved jogging on her profile one time.

[Trotter]

Is it just me or is Djonna advertising for dating sites that are known for being porn bot havens?

[Djonna]

(09-27-2008 09:56 PM)X-Factor Wrote:  

That's all very well and good, madame. I think those are admirable traits indeed. However, I am going to refer back to my original assertion that what women want and what women are attracted to are two completely different things. This is all part of the bigger idea of looking at what people do, and not what they say (regardless of gender).

Whether you admit it to yourself or not, you want a man that is strong and confident; a man who leads. Deep down, in places you may not want to talk about, you understand this.

Here's an example of a new-age sensitive guy. Maybe a guy has doubts about this or that. Maybe he's unsure of himself and a little insecure about a possible promotion at work or something in his personal life. This guy comes to you and vomits his insecurties on to you, because you told him to be open and trusting. How many guys have broken down and cried in front of a woman, and spilled their guts, and that woman turns out to respect him more? Not very many.

Here's the bottom line: Women screw "bad boys", but marry "nice guys." And even then, with the marriage statistics as they are, the marriage is a coin flip.

I totally agree with you on the "bad boy"..... Women like and are attracted to "bad boys".... Bad boys? Yes sir. We love em; they treat us like "chit" and we still love them.... I know. I'm one of those women. I am "not" in to the online dating scene anymore. I join sites for the blogging and interactions; that wasn't my original intent. Through the course of the years, I've learned about this "online dating". It's a "meat market".... I, also, don't bring the past in to current relationships; and, I don't think men should either. As a woman? And, I'm being honest, here. I want a man to be open and honest, but spilling "his" guts about the past tells me one thing.... He's in the past.... We SO often dwell on past relationships when, in fact, we always get through those heart aches, even if we "think" we won't.... It's more important to learn from our past than to carry it forward in to the next relationship. Face it.... We've all been "scre*ed" at one time or another. We all have a history of broken hearts and relationships. The key is to pick up and start dating as soon as possible, which may be against what one considers at the time of a break up. Getting over someone doesn't involve sitting home waiting for the phone to ring or crying over spilt milk. Get out there! Start dating again.... This was a little off the subject matter, but I get going and actually enjoy it! lol....

[Basil Ransom]

(09-27-2008 07:37 PM)X-Factor Wrote:  

"Must be mature emotionally, yet have the wonder of a child" = (Actually, I'm not sure what that means yet. I'm still deciphering it in my lab. I have a team of grad students and research assistants working on it.)

Allow me to help.

"Must be mature emotionally, yet have the wonder of a child" = Must be cool and tasteful, yet find my infantile interests and humor downright enthralling .

[zorgon]

(09-27-2008 02:51 PM)Djonna Wrote:  

I would have to say that you're correct on the email return. But, I also, think it's the email itself that a man sends that will either prompt a return or not. I always try to answer my emails; but, some of the replys for rejection aren't very nice. Then you have the man that keeps sending emails day after day after day. The woman doesn't respond; the man keeps on sending emails? What is he NOT seeing. Also, what I find very distasteful is "cock" pictures on profiles. Women and men view nudity different. Men, by far, enjoy viewing naked women; I don't think that's true of woman. We'd rather see a nice "butt" shot or "chest" shot than a cock picture. In closing, from my experience, too, women are overwhelmed with the amount of email. If we responded to each and every one, we'd be online 24/7. It's just not possible. I try; but, I don't always respond to the ones that continuously send a parade of ongoing emails. The ratio of men to women is astounding in the internet dating scene. These are just my opinions and views and may not be those of others.

Well, let's see...
1. I always sent 1 email, that's it; if I sent a second one, it's by accident because I had to send so many emails I've long forgotten who I've already emailed (sooner or later I just run out of worthwhile people to email entirely, at which point it's a total loss)
2. I never posted distasteful pictures
3. "it's the email itself that a man sends that will either prompt a return or not" -- I'm not sure what that means. The response rate seemed to be equally low regardless of how much or little effort I put into the email.

I also tried any number of approaches in my profile itself. Simply describing myself and listing my positive attributes doesn't work, that's for sure. Travel experiences in your profile do seem to help a little.

Honestly, the best/most numerous replies online I ever got were from a Craigslist m4w ad that was totally ridiculous. I posted as the furthest-right-wing political stereotype you can possibly imagine. (Not difficult for me, because I'm extremely conservative.) I won't provide quotes because it's still out there on the Internet and could be used to find my identity, but I assure you -- this ad was ridiculously over the top.

I actually got a bunch of replies. Some were creepy (can you say "Neo-Nazi Girl"?). Some were people not interested but who thought it was hilarious. One was actually a fairly hot girl (I would say a 9) who I went on a date with... to go in the spirit of the ad, we went to the gun range. (Yeah, that takes balls to take someone you don't know to go shoot guns.) Unfortunately this was 4 years ago and I had *no* idea what I was doing with women at the time.

[Djonna]

(09-28-2008 01:48 AM)Trotter Wrote:  

Is it just me or is Djonna advertising for dating sites that are known for being porn bot havens?

Not advertising for anything. Sorry you feel that way. I didn't even mean to come across that way. I was using sites as examples; I've deleted them in my post.

[Chick]

I agree with Trotter.

[Roosh]

(09-27-2008 04:00 PM)broken Wrote:  

I have absolutely no sympathy for women when it comes to dating.

I wonder what women would think if they had to date as a man for an extended period of time.

[speakeasy]

Here's a typical one:

"I'm a fun, midwestern girl who is into music, laughter, beach days, my friends and family. I work in the hospitality industry and hope to have my own bed and breakfast someday.

I'm a very social person but I also enjoy my "me" time too. I love to read, and am trying to learn guitar. I have just recently acquired a taste for scotch, and love going target shooting. I can be really goofy at times and serious at others. I have a very sarcastic sense of humor and need someone who can keep up.

I'm really looking for someone who can challenge me. I've found that if I don't have a partner that can teach me things, debate with me, and help me grow as a person, I get bored easily."

I just pulled this off of plentyoffish. Every god damned chic's profile sounds exactly like this above. Either 1) Most women are INCREDIBLY boring, or 2) People are just too lazy to write a profile that makes you sit up in your seat.

I have to think it must be number 2. That most people are a bit more interesting than they make themselves out to be. I hope!

[mcr]

I regulary "call them out" on that shit... I generally get close to a 75% reply ratio when I tell them they just "cut & pasted" their profile from the last profile I looked at and then I ask them to tell me a story or something intriguing about themselves instead of the same thing I read 10 other times... I'm happy seeing the "same" profiles... it gives me a conversation starter and makes the women think, damn... he actually "did" read it.

You can get great success online.. you just have to know how to 'play' there... Now I just wish I could take online 'game' and be as successful at club & day game.

[Sourcecode]

I have nothing productive to add to this thread..besides my immature youth where i would mass message girls with the most witty lines possible..and then play them all the same way until i got them to send me nude pictures.
little did they know..i was only 12 or 13. getting chicks from 16-20 to take of clothes for me.

..and then i stepped my game up and did it in real life and found it was much more satisfying and my i wouldnt have a sprained wrist and a sore dick. just a sore dick.