[Matt3B]

How much does it affect a guy and his path in life in terms of game?

It's a somewhat complex question, I think. I was brought up by my mother and lived with her and my sister. She has been married 4 times in the space of my life time (she was married to my dad for 8 years before I was born and he was only around until I was 4) and I've never had a father figure to teach me how to be a man, how not to take shit from other people and how to stand up for myself and what I believe in.

Sure, there have been men in the house but they haven't been my father, so it's different. It wasn't their duty to bring me up, it wasn't in the nature of their very being to be proud of me or to have animalistic instincts to pass on their knowledge and wisdom to shape me into a man worthy of carrying on the family name.

There are two paths I think which a boy can take on his road to being a man whilst growing up in this environment.

The first is the weaker path which is what I took. It's being moulded by the female influence in the household to see the world through a woman's eyes, being brought up to avoid conflict, treat others how you wish to be treated and respect people. On the face of it, they are good values to have in modern society. You will fit right in with people and most likely have a trouble free life.

The best bit of advice my mother gave me regarding women was when I was 7 or 8 years old and I was naive to what she was saying at the time. "Keep your nails short, girls like that".

Anything else regarding women was just idealistic, perfect dreams of how she envisaged women including herself to be treated and that is the way to a woman's heart. Growing up with two women and these are the kind of views that you're exposed to. "Be a gentleman, hold doors open for her, buy her gifts" and so on. I mean, this advice is from women. They must be right, right?

I grew up as a weak person, I avoided conflict and if someone disagreed with me I would tend to swerve confrontation or the situation getting escalated by changing my point of view out loud or downplaying my opinion.

Look around in cities around you today and you'll be able to see the "men" who were raised by their mother. When the shit gets tough, mummy is always on hand to tell him everything is okay. My mum's advice when I was struggling with things used to be "forget about it and come home". I heard "man up" a lot by my friends.

Thankfully I discovered the red pill and game, but the vast majority aren't so lucky. I can't tell what it is but I have always been motivated towards money having not grown up with much so I've always seen things a bit differently. The red pill gave a name to all the thoughts I harboured for much of my life but was too afraid to come out and say, and stick by them when I did. I don't expect a lot of people have the same motivation. I lived a lot of my life thinking "I would never cheat on a girl, I've seen the damage it's done". I've now jumped on a different trail of thought. Are most guys the same?

The second path is the boy rising to the top of the household. He is the man of the house and he takes the responsibility of providing for the family and looking out for them.

A typical, cliched yet most definitely true example is of a boy filled with rage at his "no good" father that abandoned his mother striving to feel his dad's shoes. This is the quick path to becoming an alpha male, a real man.

Putting aside the emotional issues it "typically" brings in this scenario, the boy rising to the top of the household gains the power. When shit goes down, he deals with it. When people in the family have problems, he deals with it. He raises himself fuelled with purpose and this transcends onto his life outside of home.

These types of guys are naturally good at pulling broads. They are used to their bullshit, they are used to putting them in their place, they are used to being in control over women and they are used to the attention.

The boy is provided for by his mother in terms of basic things like food and shelter but he will always consider himself top of the house. He will gain his own opinions on how women should be treated, not force fed them with a spoon and society in his mind's eye will be seen how he sees it.

The man will protect his mother as he feels it's his duty to and this will create the complete opposite bond. While someone who took my path will go to mummy when there is trouble, mummy will come to son when she needs help. A man chiseled through hardships and his need to feel a void.

I can see the downsides and positives to being brought up by a single mother. It depends on how you as a boy react to the situation you find yourself in. I don't regret what's happened in my life, it always gave me an outside perspective on things as I was the one with the broken family in my group of friends at school. I am who I am now and I can see both sides to the story.

Anyone else got any similar thoughts?

[space]

My parents are separated. Growing up we spent time with both at various times until a big event changed all that.

My dad is old school - he kicks ass and takes no names. Its funny cos I'm the opposite. I've witnessed his violence and seen the pain it causes and this has made me a non-violent sort.

Game wise, similar to you I had to learn it all myself. But I'm glad I didn't have pussy when I was younger. It's character forming having barren years, for proof look at Roosh!

[Days of Broken Arrows]

A lot of the qualities you describe, like shying from conflict, might be due more to basic, genetic personality factors than environment. So don't beat yourself up too bad about it -- or your family. I think the relationship between genetics and environment is 60/40 in favor of genetics, so while your upbringing matters, it's not the be all and end all.

And you CAN tweak your personality, as game has shown. Once you recognize a problem, it's simple enough to correct it. I'd go so far as to say you can mess with your physical genetics. When I developed a problem in my right arm, I started using a left-handed mouse. Now I can barely work a right-handed mouse. The body and mind are more malleable than the HBD crowd would have you believe.

Also, have you considered the other side of the coin? I grew up in a house with a totally asshole father who would beat the hell out of me for any infraction. So when conflict arose in school, I got my face punched if I did one of two things:

1). Got in a fight.
2). Acted like a wimp and avoided the fight.

As you might imagine, I was a completely confused mess as a teen. But I have it good compared to the way one of my brothers turned out (45 and has never held a job for more than a year or so). These days my dad cowers in fear from me, so I flipped that script.

Finally, I'd say you were brought up by a divorcee, not a single mother per se. This is an important distinction. I know kids who have no idea who or where their fathers are. I'm not saying you didn't have it bad, but just saying you may be characterizing yourself a bit more negatively than need me. Turn a negative into a positive here, though: your family story sure is heartbreaking and there are women out there who like to "save" guys, so milk that for all it's worth to the right crowd (nurses, leftie chicks), which is why we're here!

[bonkers]

Agree with a lot of things you say.

Although, this can happen in households where the father is present too. My father is one of the people I admire in this world the most. He was hard working and the beautiful thing was that, he did whatever it took. When we first moved here from overseas, he had to deliver catalogues to make ends meet. He did it (this is a guy with a Masters in Engineering). He couldn't speak English very well and people laughed at him, yet he still fronted up to job interviews time and time again until he got the job he wanted. He didn't care what it took, he made sacrifices, he didn't care if he looked silly doing something, he did it if it was in the best interests of our family. From that perspective he was quite alpha and these qualities are ones that I aspire to and haven't reached even today.

But from another perspective, he was beta (and it pains me to type that about my father given the respect I have for him). In terms of dealing with women and even being laughed at by other people. My mum (who I also greatly admire) was the head of the households and made the decisions. She has made, good, logical decisions (*touch wood*) and my father did everything possible to support her, and they worked well together as a team (*touch wood*). But at the same time, she hated the fact that my father was so passive and wished he would take charge and stand up for himself. Seeing this dynamic growing up, I ended up being beta myself, but I'm slowly trying to change. It's hard, I still refer to my Mum and Dad for decisions (but in fairness, they have guided me towards good decisions more often than not *touch wood*)

There's just so much female conditioning going on in society as well - so it's a double whammy - female conditioning at home and in society. Take a look at schools and university and even graduate jobs (the bosses in the lower levels tend to be female) - mostly female. And they passive (or some actively) condition young males with what you "should do and be like" and it often is pandering to females. The worse piece of advice that is often dished out to young males is "just be yourself" or "you are fine just the way you are". Men are supposed to be going out innovating, working hard, trying to improve things around them. They are suppsoed to be aggressive, take risks (within reason) etc, but all of that is conditioned out.

[Matt3B]

(02-07-2013 07:31 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

A lot of the qualities you describe, like shying from conflict, might be due more to basic, genetic personality factors than environment. So don't beat yourself up too bad about it -- or your family. I think the relationship between genetics and environment is 60/40 in favor of genetics, so while your upbringing matters, it's not the be all and end all.

To some part I agree regarding the genetics but that gives me more questions than it does answers. I've only realised this past year my dad's behaviour on a whole is alpha. He is naturally confident, earned a lot of money in his 30s and 40s and fucked around with young foreign girls. I remember one time he was dating a 20 year old Russian girl and my mum was shaming him to me and my sister about it. Now I think that's fucking boss.

If genetics are the reasoning for it, what gives me the desire to break away and pursue self improvement and riches when nobody else in my family sees past settling for mediocrity? Why have I not got many of my dad's natural alpha attributes? What would I have grown up like if he was around?

Quote:

Also, have you considered the other side of the coin? I grew up in a house with a totally asshole father who would beat the hell out of me for any infraction. So when conflict arose in school, I got my face punched if I did one of two things:

1). Got in a fight.
2). Acted like a wimp and avoided the fight.

As you might imagine, I was a completely confused mess as a teen. But I have it good compared to the way one of my brothers turned out (45 and has never held a job for more than a year or so). These days my dad cowers in fear from me, so I flipped that script.

I hadn't considered it no. It's not something I have much experience or knowledge with. Might be a good post for you to write?

Quote:

Finally, I'd say you were brought up by a divorcee, not a single mother per se. This is an important distinction. I know kids who have no idea who or where their fathers are. I'm not saying you didn't have it bad, but just saying you may be characterizing yourself a bit more negatively than need me. Turn a negative into a positive here, though: your family story sure is heartbreaking and there are women out there who like to "save" guys, so milk that for all it's worth to the right crowd (nurses, leftie chicks), which is why we're here!

A divorcee, maybe. I was raised by her and her alone and my dad wasn't in my life for 6-7 years. As I said, there were men around at times but they had nothing to do with my upbringing. My mum was the head of the house and she had these guys under her thumb, so when it came to her kids there was no debating anything. She was the boss and the house went by her rules. That's why I see it as a single motherhood because she was left solo to raise us.

[Ovid]

I can somewhat relate, because my dad died when I was 8, the year after my grandpa and uncle died. So, I basically ended up being raised by 3 women. Fortunately, my family is very old -and old fashioned- so I didn't emerge too messed up in the head. I can definitely see how being formed by women has affected me though: I take after my mother in that I avoid conflict, am instinctively very tactful and diplomatic, and acting "alpha" is a deliberate choice for me rather than a natural way of acting. I assume with time it will become more natural as I become more habituated to it, but for now I have to remind myself to be more of an asshole to people, to walk and act like I own the street and the building instead of being quiet and non-threatening, and so forth.

My father was an undeniable alpha, and I'm thankful that I had that example, even if it wasn't for very long. He was a mechanic and a carpenter, built our family's 3,000 square foot home almost entirely single-handed when he was in his late 60s, and married my mom when he was 49 and she was 27. Unfortunately, he died before he could teach me anything about girls, but I do remember him telling me to "wink at them to show them you like them." Might have worked well in 1940 but I haven't had much success with that particular technique in 2013

The main lesson I take from the relationships of my father and mother (and my grandfather and grandmother too, for that matter) is that women are not inherently bitches and sluts who lie and cheat, if they come from good stock themselves and have self-discipline and the ability to make sacrifices. These traits are markedly lacking in almost everyone in the West in 2013, but women, being naturally more weak-willed anyway, are especially hard-hit, especially when poisonous feminist ideology is now taken for granted by virtually everyone. But I digress...

Being raised by a woman is a hard thing for any man, but it can be overcome. I think that part of what shows an individual's worth is his ability to make something of himself regardless of the shitty circumstances in which he was brought up. Even so though, I really feel for the boys today, many of whom, perhaps even a majority, are now being raised by single moms -and not remembers-using-an-outhouse farmer single moms, but vapid, materialistic, spoiled single moms, whose innate tendency to hypergamy is allowed to reign unchecked, who do not discipline their children because they feel guilty, and who plug them into video games and television so that they can text with their girlfriends. Those boys are going to have a lot working against them when they get into the world.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

"Why have I not got many of my dad's natural alpha attributes? What would I have grown up like if he was around?"

Genetics aren't that simple, esp. when it comes to personality. My brother is a natural Alpha and has a very distinct personality type. At age 7 he could charm girls 3-4 years older. One of his boys is the complete opposite, but one of them is a carbon copy of him, right down to mannerisms and speech patters -- and I mean mannerisms and ways of speaking my bro had at age 5 that I remember and he doesn't. These couldn't have been learned -- they had to have been passed on. Even their laughs are the same (a low hum), and my bro hasn't laughed that way since he was a kid.

My guess is you probably got personality traits from somewhere else besides your dad. The fact that you have a high level of self-awareness about that may be better in the long run than the Alpha traits. Now you can bang the hottie AND be aware of the reasons behind all this that we discuss here.

One more thing: your dad's natural Alpha urges were probably nurtured by the media, his peers, and his family while growing up. We all have grown up in a MUCH different era. Not sure how old your dad is, but anyone who came of age after about 1980 needs to learn the red pill stuff that their fathers and uncles just assumed. Back then, men didn't need the Roosh V Forum because society functioned as a way to build men up, not make them feel like "sinners" for being men. (Someone needs to write more about this, but I digress.)

I remember once going to dinner with my (married) uncle and him flirting with the waitress (his wife was not around). I was in my teenage blue pill phase and made a remark about it. He was like "What are you? A priest? You don't know how to have fun?" As I said, he was the product of another era. So was your dad, I bet.

(02-07-2013 07:56 PM)MattC Wrote:  

(02-07-2013 07:31 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

A lot of the qualities you describe, like shying from conflict, might be due more to basic, genetic personality factors than environment. So don't beat yourself up too bad about it -- or your family. I think the relationship between genetics and environment is 60/40 in favor of genetics, so while your upbringing matters, it's not the be all and end all.

To some part I agree regarding the genetics but that gives me more questions than it does answers. I've only realised this past year my dad's behaviour on a whole is alpha. He is naturally confident, earned a lot of money in his 30s and 40s and fucked around with young foreign girls. I remember one time he was dating a 20 year old Russian girl and my mum was shaming him to me and my sister about it. Now I think that's fucking boss.

If genetics are the reasoning for it, what gives me the desire to break away and pursue self improvement and riches when nobody else in my family sees past settling for mediocrity? Why have I not got many of my dad's natural alpha attributes? What would I have grown up like if he was around?

Quote:

Also, have you considered the other side of the coin? I grew up in a house with a totally asshole father who would beat the hell out of me for any infraction. So when conflict arose in school, I got my face punched if I did one of two things:

1). Got in a fight.
2). Acted like a wimp and avoided the fight.

As you might imagine, I was a completely confused mess as a teen. But I have it good compared to the way one of my brothers turned out (45 and has never held a job for more than a year or so). These days my dad cowers in fear from me, so I flipped that script.

I hadn't considered it no. It's not something I have much experience or knowledge with. Might be a good post for you to write?

Quote:

Finally, I'd say you were brought up by a divorcee, not a single mother per se. This is an important distinction. I know kids who have no idea who or where their fathers are. I'm not saying you didn't have it bad, but just saying you may be characterizing yourself a bit more negatively than need me. Turn a negative into a positive here, though: your family story sure is heartbreaking and there are women out there who like to "save" guys, so milk that for all it's worth to the right crowd (nurses, leftie chicks), which is why we're here!

A divorcee, maybe. I was raised by her and her alone and my dad wasn't in my life for 6-7 years. As I said, there were men around at times but they had nothing to do with my upbringing. My mum was the head of the house and she had these guys under her thumb, so when it came to her kids there was no debating anything. She was the boss and the house went by her rules. That's why I see it as a single motherhood because she was left solo to raise us.

[RouteBackwards]

This hits home for sure...

My father was the archetypal alpha male. He came from a third world country he was fearless as a result of having survived under crazy condition.

Sadly he died pretty early into my youth and my mom was left to take care of me and my siblings. Not only was I raised by her, but I was raised by a hardcore feminist grandmother who made me feel weird about sexuality. My mother did the best to raise me under the circumstances, but I was not disciplined like I should have been and in turn controlling my emotions and such as a budding teenager was hell.

Not only that, but mixed in with the fact that like most teenagers, I was horny as fuck but felt weird for wanting to act out sexually because of my feminist grandmother. I bought into the feminist dream for quite some time, I believed a lot of feminist propaganda through my grandmother and I even thought I myself was progressive by buying into it. The irony was this belief system fed into my social weirdness and anxieties, and even though I was convinced this idea was a plus in regards to attracting women, I could not talk to a girl for the life of me.

Around seventeen - eighteen however, my older brother who did experience my father for a substantial time, started hanging out with me far more. My brother's a womanizer for sure, but he was constantly in and out of the household so I did not really form a close bond with him. Seeing how he dealt with people, women and life in general, his I don't give a fuck attitude really inspired me. One thing my brother did was constantly push me to talk to women, and while it took me a long time to come around, I started to look past my social anxieties and make an effort to do so. Long story short, I found game materials at a perfect time in my life and got over most of my crippling anxieties.

I often wonder to myself how things would have been different if I was raised by my father. I believe no matter how society has shifted into an anti-male propaganda machine I would have been a natural alpha male as a result of my father and probably never heard of game materials.

However that thinking will never happen and I am here now, and I'm pretty damn happy with where I'm at versus where I've come from. I love my mother more than anything, but simply a mother's love cannot substitute a father's discipline when it's most vital.

[Screwston]

Most the guys I know who are the farthest thing from being players and "alphas" were raised by both parents. I don't know why some people on here act like you're gonna be some bad ass if your dad is always around and some square bitch if it's just your mom. Everyone just has different personality's and branches out in their own way.

My parents were always together on and off but it was mostly just me and my mom. I'm glad that my mom is down to earth and was always more like a friend. This was way before cell phones and all that crap so we would always talk and go do shit together when I was growing up. I know she did her best trying to raise a man but I started getting high, drinking, hanging with the wrong peopleand I think that kind of made me grow up and leave the safe nest at home. It was either that or walk a straight line and listen to her every rule but I didnt want to like every other teenager. Plus, sons usually fuck around more if a dad isn't around to lay down the rules.

I got lucky that that I have a bunch of bad ass blue collar guys in my family so my mom would make me work with them during some summers and shit like that. I always looked up to them like father figures but my dad wasn't completely out of the picture. It wasn't like I was never around men and couldn't pick up on how they were acting. I feel real sorry for boys now days who are being raised my single trash I mean women.

My mom never taught me to be a white knight. She never really told me anything about girls except to use condoms. She did dress me up good though.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I can't really relate because I grew up in a stable, loving family (albeit totally without game, as my parents are both clueless about the changes occurring on the sexual market - which is to be expected). However, I just wanted to touch on this bit that you wrote:

Quote:

A typical, cliched yet most definitely true example is of a boy filled with rage at his "no good" father that abandoned his mother striving to feel his dad's shoes. This is the quick path to becoming an alpha male, a real man.

Raging at your "no good father who abandoned your mother" turns men into white knights, not alphas. Sure, that might have been the case occasionally, but in the vast majority (70% - look up the "These boots were made for divorcing" study) of divorces, it is not. Raging at your father because mom kicked him out of home is the surest way to become a white knight, imo.

[Lemmo]

Being raised by a dysfunctional bitchy woman, regardless of whether she is married to the father, is probably most conducive to developing game since from 0-18 you will see extreme examples of the sorts of narcissistic/sociopathic thoughts and behavior shared by all women to a lesser degree. I would expect single mothers to more commonly fall into this category.

[DarkTriad]

(02-07-2013 10:06 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

"Why have I not got many of my dad's natural alpha attributes? What would I have grown up like if he was around?"

One more thing: your dad's natural Alpha urges were probably nurtured by the media, his peers, and his family while growing up. We all have grown up in a MUCH different era. Not sure how old your dad is, but anyone who came of age after about 1980 needs to learn the red pill stuff that their fathers and uncles just assumed. Back then, men didn't need the Roosh V Forum because society functioned as a way to build men up, not make them feel like "sinners" for being men. (Someone needs to write more about this, but I digress.)

[/quote]

Boom.

[DarkTriad]

(02-08-2013 07:14 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

I can't really relate because I grew up in a stable, loving family (albeit totally without game, as my parents are both clueless about the changes occurring on the sexual market - which is to be expected). However, I just wanted to touch on this bit that you wrote:

Quote:

A typical, cliched yet most definitely true example is of a boy filled with rage at his "no good" father that abandoned his mother striving to feel his dad's shoes. This is the quick path to becoming an alpha male, a real man.

Raging at your "no good father who abandoned your mother" turns men into white knights, not alphas. Sure, that might have been the case occasionally, but in the vast majority (70% - look up the "These boots were made for divorcing" study) of divorces, it is not. Raging at your father because mom kicked him out of home is the surest way to become a white knight, imo.

So true. The vast majority of men simply WILL NOT leave the mother of their child unless they're being horribly mistreated. If you're from a borken home, just be aware where the "blame" usually lies.

[RichieP]

Similar situation. There's pros and cons to it. One con is that you have to seek out and find the things you never got from a biological father. You have to deliberately go learn assertiveness, centeredness, uncover your inner animal, your fierceness, your anger, your drive to force things and make them work - etc. They're inside you though, waiting to come out. It's genetic. Just takes some effort digging.

One pro is you're not weighed down by needing your father's approval or his expectations/limiting beliefs that he's burdened you with. And thank god, you didn't have a highly abusive father. No father at all might well be better than that.

We're all strugglers, we just struggle with different issues. You'll find your way.

[CJVM]

The players I know in real life almost always came from a single parent household, mostly single mother.

[Isaac Jordan]

Quote:

A typical, cliched yet most definitely true example is of a boy filled with rage at his "no good" father that abandoned his mother striving to feel his dad's shoes. This is the quick path to becoming an alpha male, a real man.

Quote:

Raging at your "no good father who abandoned your mother" turns men into white knights, not alphas. Sure, that might have been the case occasionally, but in the vast majority (70% - look up the "These boots were made for divorcing" study) of divorces, it is not. Raging at your father because mom kicked him out of home is the surest way to become a white knight, imo.

This is close to my experience. My folks split when I was a baby, and even though I saw my dad a couple times a month, the vast majority of my time was spent with my mom. Although my dad rarely said anything bad about my mom, my mom HATED him, and would take every opportunity to talk about what a huge asshole he is. So I grew up believing that if I wanted to get a woman like my mom (an attractive, feminine, intelligent nurse) then I should act like the opposite of my father (a smart, confident guy who dropped out of high school early to build what would become a million-dollar business).

Ugh.

I became your quintessential beta male white knight, swearing to the world that I'd never be the man my father was, that I'd never hurt MY wife the way my dad did my mom. It truly never occurred to me that before she hated him, she fell in love with him...and married him...and had his children. Hah.

The blue pill is some strong shit.

[king]

(02-11-2013 04:18 PM)CJVM Wrote:  

The players I know in real life almost always came from a single parent household, mostly single mother.

In a way it makes sense, considering that there are high chances that their fathers were players.

[Ambros]

(02-08-2013 05:48 AM)houston Wrote:  

Most the guys I know who are the farthest thing from being players and "alphas" were raised by both parents. I don't know why some people on here act like you're gonna be some bad ass if your dad is always around and some square bitch if it's just your mom. Everyone just has different personality's and branches out in their own way.

Not sure it's a matter of being a badass if your dad is around. It's a matter of being secure, particularly with the masculine energy. Having the presence of a strong man in your life as a child will help ingrain those traits that will lead to someone having more natural leader (alpha) qualities.

Just like you, I fell into drugs and the wrong crowd at an early age. This led me to a life of violence and crime that lasted almost 15 years. I could elaborate further on why, but 2pac already did, ironically in the song dear mama. "They say I’m wrong and I’m heartless/But all along I was looking for a father, he was gone. I hung around with the thugs, and even though they sold drugs, they showed a young brother love.”

The problem is with a cultural system that almost encourages single motherhood. A woman cannot raise a man. But they don't know that, after all, they may be your mom, but they're still women.

[The Come Back]

IME i have just as many alpha friends from 2 parent households as I do that were raised by their mom, same goes for betas. So, I think a guys genetics play a very big roll. My natural alpha friends stood out at a young age and had natural aura about them that drew people in. fast forward to high school and dating/sleeping with girls they all had one thing in common, CONFIDENCE. They were already used to getting attention and calling the shots so every every time they approached a girl their attitude was on point and when a girl gave them the cold shoulder u would never know it by the expression on their faces, they would just move on to the next closest cute girl. To pull my rant back to the topic i think that having a beta dad would stunt ur game growth way more than having a single mom feeding u lies about how you should treat a women.

[rdvirus]

Great read, definitely something I can relate to.. Raised mostly by mother who made my dad out to be a prick, made me a full out white knight up until high school then things began changing. Started flipping weed, drinking heavy and hangin out with all the older kids.. Getting into tons of shit without a dad to put the foot down(only around here and there). My mother is a huge pushover and I pretty much did my own thing ever since 11 or 12. Losing a lot of my beta tendencies and moving into the popular crowd. I was still shy and WK with girls though.. My dad drives as if every woman walking down the road is a crazy accident, he cranks his neck and just stares at tits/ass. Any woman I would see him approach he would work game on(very weak game, but game nonetheless). I used to be so white knight I thought this was disturbing(blue pill for ya, I'm only 20 so I got hit hard). Anyways it took a good few years with a LTR that ended up stomping my heart out entirely that I finally took the red pill. I hurt for a while, telling myself she'd come back meanwhile she was riding the cock carousel. Still kept playing into her games until she tried to get me to give her a ride to the city she went to college in to visit some friends.. Then it clicked that I was being walked all over and always had been and that she was knowingly going to take a ride from me to go fuck some other guy. Light went off in my head and I started to realize how seriously fucked being raised by mother for the most part made me. Found this forum and actually learned that there was a community based around red pill thinking and started absorbing as much info as I could. My quality of life has been steadily improving and I'm making my way out of a lengthy depression thanks to game. Still have a very long way to go.. This is really just the tip of the iceberg and there is a ton of other outlying factors, maybe I should write a book .

Definitely agree that normal families typically produce betas, my best friend was always twice the beta I was when we were growing up and that's slowly increasing. I would never change the past as I wouldn't be here without it, I'd be itching with oneitis.

All this being said I still respect my mother I just make sure to take a red pill after everything she says. Finally started to understand what my father was put thru and why he was the way he was when I was growing up.. Someone once said to me that in a divorce, parents become children and children become parents.. Something I can agree with, not sure about you guys.

[SpiderKing]

(02-08-2013 07:26 AM)Lemmo Wrote:  

Being raised by a dysfunctional bitchy woman, regardless of whether she is married to the father, is probably most conducive to developing game since from 0-18 you will see extreme examples of the sorts of narcissistic/sociopathic thoughts and behavior shared by all women to a lesser degree. I would expect single mothers to more commonly fall into this category.

(02-08-2013 04:26 AM)RouteBackwards Wrote:  

a mother's love cannot substitute a father's discipline when it's most vital.