[kenny_powers]

This is good Nomad. She is opening up real dialogue with you not truly flaking.

Time to implement some text game mi amigo.

Tell her "wow, no way, I fast too, does that make me an oddball" start talking about juicing or some shit.

Just stay positive with it.

[Nomad77]

Well, I usually don't get into text game - not good at it but it's already setup. Suppose to meet her on Thursday night.

Now, working on a Polish girl that just returned here. Strangest thing, this girl never responded to my messages on facebook BUT she responds if I use facebook chat. It's like she doesn't get the messages or don't know how to reply or something. Initially I thought she was just ignoring me until I tried chatting with her now everything is flowing: shooting for a yoga date on Friday.

[BIGINJAPAN]

If you are getting flaked on after number 4, I really think there is only 3 reasons.

1. shitty in bed
2. she feels like a slut for sleeping with you
3. small cock

[BIGINJAPAN]

Or a possible number 4. You cried after you blew your load.

[Sargon of Akkad]

My general definition of flaking has been as follows...

Agreeing to meet someone and later not following through on that agreement. This can either take place in the form of calling a meeting off on extremely short notice (without offering an alternative), or simply not showing up at all (with no explanation). You could also include a refusal to return calls and messages after a meeting has already taken place.

I think this is lower than just refusing to engage a stranger, as it does display a certain spinelessness and a general lack of integrity to pull this after agreeing to a meet up, when you could have just said you didn't have time from the beginning.

Sadly, this is a fact of life, and it's not limited to women, though, of course, most of our experiences will probably involve female flakes. You just have to except them and calculate them into your schedule.

Personally, I've never had a girl do this to me directly after sex, but it has happened after pretty much every other point on the list. Though, theoretically, any girl can flake (regardless of how friendly she was to you in the beginning), you can be pretty certain she won't show up when she gives off 'that vibe' upon giving you her number. For example, I number closed a girl day before yesterday, who agreed to meeting up in a couple weeks, but I already know it's most likely not going to happen, so I'm not getting my hopes up with that one.

[Nomad77]

I think I have found the answer to my own quesion. The girls are, in general, very flaky BECAUSE us guys allow them to be. Not the guys on this forum but the other 99% of the guys out there. She may have given out her number to 10 guys that night and even if she flakes on ALL of them she will still have 8 of them kissing her ass. If instead, she lost 8 of those guys the moment she flaked she would change but that's not going to happen anything soon.

Think about it, what do women need from us these days? Unless they are interested in starting a family and looking for some daddy support not much. If they have a decent job they can pretty much take care of themselves financially. They get all the validation they need from posting some dumb pic on facebook. The get all the attention they need from the 99% of guys out there blowing up their text message and WhatsApp account. They can walk out there any night or day of the week and find 10 decent looking guys that will bang them. We are essentially giving away the milk for free so why should they buy the cow. Hell, why should they even behave in a reasonable manner. There is absolutely no penalty if a girl flakes on anyone so they just do whatever they feel like whenever they feel like it. Even if we deleted her phone number and never call her again, she still has 99 other idiots who will or she can just roll out any night of the week and pick up 10 more. And while sex can get them more emotionally involved it doesn't work as good as it used to. These days I feel that I am the one being used for sex. The girls get to call the shots on when and how they want to have sex. We are just standing around waiting to service them. Even when we roll out that is basically what we are doing for a SNL: looking for a girl that wants to have sex that night. (Look at what happened to Roosh when he came back and got his SNL. That's basically how I feel after most of my SNL here in the US.)

With that said, I haven't delete ALL of my numbers. There are some girls that are Ok, that do respond in a reasonable manner, that are not flaky BUT they are the exception by far - the 1%. The bottom line is, American girls today are flaky simply because we (us men) allow them to be. Worse, we allow them to be not only flaky but also unreasonable. Without any penalty for acting in a certain manner why would they or anyone do so. And I can promise you this is not going to get any better soon, it will only get worse.

[Nomad77]

Flaky behavior is not an American woman problem it's an American problem - period. American men are almost as flaky as the women or maybe they have had to adapt to the women. In my perspective from interacting with different cultures, I find Americans outside of a business context, to be much more flaky than other cultures. Setting up a meeting with an American guy or guys to hang out or whatever is almost the same as with an American woman. (When I say American, I am talking about people that grew up here.) Now, they are exceptions but then again they are always exceptions.

[Travesty]

I agree about American men being more flaky than ever. My peers mid 20s to early 30s are all much harder to get a hold of and even texting the delay for a response is sometime days. These same friends back in the early to mid 2000s would get back to you at least within 4 hours with a text, and that was if they were camping or something.

Something tells me it is just the influx of emails, Twitter, FB, instant messaging in a business context, Skype, etc... the human brain just doesn't want to respond to all this garbage.

I honestly no longer even bother cleaning up my personal email inbox I just let it ride, just too much shit constantly I don't care as much about any single communication directed at me. The wall of white noise is just too fucking loud. I want my own thoughts once in awhile.

[Nomad77]

The information overload is definitely part of the problem BUT I think the bigger reason is that we are all just becoming more and more self-centered just like the women. I bet when your friends need something from you they reply to a text real quick.

[iknowexactly]

(01-28-2013 05:44 PM)kenny_powers Wrote:  

(01-28-2013 01:51 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I don't believe in "flaking", among strangers.

For example, you meet a girl at a bar, you talk to her for an hour, you guys make out, you get her number, you call her, she never returns your call.

Did she "flake"? I say no. She was simply not interested. She has no obligation to call you back or see you again.

HA Gio - You are so California bro!! On the East Coast, if you say you will do something and don't follow through, you are a labeled a "flake"

I think you are responding to something other than what Giov. said. Someone giving you their number does not constitute an agreement for them to return your messages or to answer your calls.

YOU: "Give me your number."
CHICK: "OK."

She enters her number in your phone. YOu call her and leave message.
She doesn't call back.

YOU: "She flaked on me."

Incorrect. She wasn't interested in calling you. She never said she would. You asked for her number and she gave it to you. but that was all. The point of the earlier posts in this thread as I see it is you have to do more to establish your value to whicheverchick you're after. You approached her, she has no obligation to you until she assumes one.

[Nomad77]

Let me give specific examples of what I consider flaky behavior:

Me: So, when are you going to cook me your famous lasagne?
Girl: I off this Sunday maybe we can meet up at Purdy or Standard.
Me: No, maybe on my part, lets meet at Standard.
Girl: Ok, Deal!

Sunday early in evening I text her about what time she wants to meet up - no response. I write her off. 11:00pm I get a text from her: I'm meeting up with my crew. I think we are going to hit Jazzid, not sure.

Notice she never apologized or even mentioned that she had agreed to meet at Standard and this is not a girl I just met and got her phone number. I took her home and the only reason I didn't bang her was because she had a girlfriend staying with her in her apartment which I didn't know before hand. So this is a girl that I had already spent quite a bit of time with.

A flake is when a girl agrees to meet you and then changes her mind for whatever reason.

Another example:

Girl: let's meet after work on Thursday or Friday.
Me: Friday works better for me. I will text you where on Friday afternoon.
Girl: Ok

Friday afternoon I text her the place. She replies: I am really tired from work not going to go out tonight. Let's meet another day.

[iknowexactly]

(05-20-2013 12:52 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Let me give specific examples of what I consider flaky behavior:

Me: No, maybe on my part, lets meet at Standard.
Girl: Ok, Deal!


A flake is when a girl agrees to meet you and then changes her mind for whatever reason.

I agree on that one. Said she would and then did passive cancel-- cancelling only when you pressed her to live up to her agreement.

(05-20-2013 12:52 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Another example:

Friday afternoon I text her the place. She replies: I am really tired from work not going to go out tonight. Let's meet another day.

I also agree here, but at the same time people do develop problems. I also have been tired after work and not wanted to go to prior dates.

If someone does it the first or second time you are supposed to meet them however, it usually really means they're just not interested.

And difficult women remain difficult.

I'd say overall about 80% of people are simply unreliable and don't finish things.

[Nomad77]

(05-20-2013 02:15 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

And difficult women remain difficult.

This is 100% true. They never seem to get better.

[Giovonny]

(05-20-2013 12:39 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Someone giving you their number does not constitute an agreement for them to return your messages or to answer your calls.

YOU: "Give me your number."
CHICK: "OK."

She enters her number in your phone. YOu call her and leave message.
She doesn't call back.

YOU: "She flaked on me."

Incorrect.

LOL!

Agreed.

Thanks for clearing that up iknowexactly!

Girls will give you their numbers just so you will leave you alone. Girls will give you their number just so they can get an ego boost. Girls will give you their number just so they can tell their friends that a guy was hitting on them.

Giving you their number doesn't necessarily mean that they want to see you or talk to you again.

A girl will also agree to a date for the same reasons.

Just because a girl agrees to a date doesn't mean that she ever want to see or talk to you again. She was just flirting and enjoying the moment. That might sound funny but its true. Girls will give out their number and agree to a date when they actually never want to see you again.

There are not flaking, they were never interested in the first place. They were just pretending to be interested.

(05-20-2013 02:18 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

(05-20-2013 02:15 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

And difficult women remain difficult.

This is 100% true. They never seem to get better.

They do get better. When our game gets better.

Weak game = lots of "flakes"

Strong game = less "flakes"

[Nomad77]

@Gio if we were to follow this to it's logically conclusion it would mean that as women become more and more unreasonable in their demands we would need to up and up our "game". All this amounts to is pandering to the exact BS we all complain about to begin with.

The precise way to encourage unreasonable behavior is to accept and cater/compensate for it. As long we, as men, take the position that we have to continue to cater to whatever BS behavior women seek to aspire to we are only digging our own graves. Hell, just save yourself the aggravation and shoot yourself now.

This has nothing to do with Game and everything to do with the self-centered/entitled mentally that pervades this country today. I look around at my male friends and the men I know. None of them will ever even come close to my level of Game and it's difficult enough for me. The world is changing and as I predicted, men are becoming women and women men. And this is a clear sign of this. Who adjusted to whom, 50 years ago? 50 years ago, it was women that need to have Game and compensate for "bad" men. Today, who is compensating for whom? We have pretty much lost the war without even realizing it.

[G'sUp2000]

I have to disagree here with the point you made about it's up to the guy to attract the girl. I actually think the only responsibility a guy has is to present himself in a way that is appealing. After that, then the girl has to be smart enough or savy enough to recognize that this guy is the man that I need to spend some time with. Because with me i'm very confident that my game is tight and I bring a lot to the table. So I present a chance to a woman for her to have a great guy like myself to spend time with. And if she doesn't take it in my head that's on her. There's nothing I can do about that and I don't worry if she doesn't take such a great opportunity. Because the women that do take that opportunity with me will be rewarded by being with a great guy.

But this is high level game and confidence, that you have to really believe. You have to really and truly believe that your on a higher level than any girl that you talk to. It's a mind set that you have to have. If you have this type of mindset and real confidence you can talk to any girl no matter if she's a 9 or 10 it won't matter.

(01-28-2013 07:45 PM)polymath Wrote:  

Interesting discussion. I like your threads lately Nomad.

(01-28-2013 06:22 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Flaking is basically when you can't see a girl again for some unknown reason - only she knows it. If she gave you her phone number it's reasonable to assume she was at least interested in seeing you again at that point in time. Or maybe, that's no longer a reasonable assumption. If the consensus is that a phone number or other contact information is basically worthless then what's the point in getting it? The whole concept of a "number close" becomes meaningless and all that's left is the SNL

A number close isn't meaningless, since without it you can't follow up with a girl who is interested. It's necessary, but not sufficient, for another step toward intimacy (or whatever you call it).

It's up to a girl to decide if she wants to answer or not, just like it is up to you to decide if you want to call or not. I'm sure many of us have had girls offer up their numbers and we just didn't want to call, or wanted to but never got around to it.

Flaking is when someone makes plans with you and then breaks them or otherwise avoids them. It sucks but girls are fickle creatures and somehow it seems nicer to some of them to make and break plans, than to just never make them at all.

It has never been the case that a man is entitled to a woman's time and attention simply because they met. You have to make her want to give it to you. If she's not answering a call or text, then she doesn't want to.

It's all part of the human mating dance.

The sooner you put the blame on yourself for your sticking points with anything in life -- women, school, work, fitness, anything -- the sooner you can get past those sticking points. By saying that a girl is flaking by not answering a text or call after you number close, you're putting the onus on her to be attracted, rather than on you to be attractive.

To answer the question, I get flaked most at level 2.

[Nomad77]

Today, women are the ones making and breaking the dates. Before at least we had the consolation of thinking since we made the dates we were sort of forcing it on them. Sure, everyone has the right to behave however they want. No one has to do anything and what we say no longer has any meaning because we can either decide to change our mind at any point or just decide to change the meaning of the words.

At what point, do you draw a line on what constitutes unacceptable behavior? At what point, does the pussy no longer worth the groveling? And after we have given up our dignity and any semblance of self-respect what will we offer then? Our interaction with American women has essentially deteriorated to a Game of guerrilla warfare with game supposedly our ultimately weapon. When did we trade our expectation, of simply being treated as a decent human being, for the chance of fucking some woman we don't even like? If that's the price of pussy in America today, I really feel sorry for you guys.

[Giovonny]

(05-20-2013 01:09 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

@Gio if we were to follow this to it's logical conclusion

Logic is not the way to a womans vagina. Illogic is often a better strategy.

Logic is the wrong tool for this job.

Treat

(05-20-2013 01:09 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

This has nothing to do with Game

I respectfully disagree.

This has everything to do with game.

I used to get flaked on all the time, you know why? Because my game sucked.

Now, my game is much better, flaking how gone down 75%

Your flake rate is directly related to your game skill.

When I was getting flaked on a lot I did not blame women. Women are followers. Instead, I improved my leadership skill.

[Nomad77]

What does that mean? Lets get some real numbers? Out of your last 10 dates. How many of the girls showed up?

[Moma]

This flake data is directly related to the city that you are in. South Florida is an extremely show and tell city and numbers mean fcuk all here.

Every part of America is very different so game has to be specifically tailored for certain parts.

Someone was telling me that in the South Florida clubs, you have to run bottle service game to make things easier. Doing the approach thing can be a long tedious game especially if you work the strip where the posers congregate in droves.

[Giovonny]

(05-20-2013 02:21 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Out of your last 10 dates. How many of the girls showed up?

My last 10 dates?

Not one girl has flaked. (10/10) They all showed up. Of course, I maintained strong communication by phone and text.

I actually flaked on a cute 19yo last month. I was tired.

Honestly, at this point I am more likely to flake then the girl is.

This is what happens when your game get good. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO FLAKES!!

[Nomad77]

So let me get this right. Not one of them rescheduled, changed plans or couldn't make it? They all just showed up at the agreed to place and time?

[Giovonny]

(05-20-2013 02:48 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

So let me get this right. Not one of them rescheduled, changed plans or couldn't make it? They all just showed up at the agreed to place and time?

There was one time where we changed plans to another day. She showed up on the other day.

Honestly, I flake on girls more then they flake on me.

But, 2-3 years ago, it was the opposite. I have been in your shoes.

The answer is stronger game or move to another country.

[Moma]

Could texting be a part of the problem? Are these dates being set up via calls or texting?

Is there any relation between dates setup via text and flaking? Can our game scientists run an excel sheet on this data?

[Nomad77]

Well, I don't have a problem outside of the US. I don't have a problem with foreign girls here in the US. So it's either a Miami problem or my American girls game is very weak. Given that other Miami members on here have also complained about flaking in Miami maybe this is a Miami or big city problem. I am curious to find out. I never have a problem admitting a weakness in myself. I actually like to, then I know it's something I can fix. So let's see just how bad this flaking issue is. I'll create a poll. Thanks