[Dr. C]

I'm going to get back to the initial Questions:

"How do I get a doctor to actually pay attention, and not give me the first diagnosis that pops into his head?"

Ask him for the possible Differential Diagnosis of your case and then ask him what leads him to believe that what he said is what you have. With more difficult cases I often explain my Differential to the patients and tell them:"It's most likely that you have X but other possible causes could be Y or Z. I need laboratory tests or imaging studies to confirm what I suspect."

Second and third opinions are great. Different people see different things in different ways. This holds for any field.

"If there's beneficial drugs for comfort that I can get (Painkillers, sleeping pills, etc.) is there a way to make it more likely that he'll prescribe them?"

Ask in a nice way. Dress like a respectable person. Smile!



"A doctor is not trained to remember medical information, but rather to process it cognitively in a working paradigm for his patient. You can google the symptoms but you're not going to be able to tell fact from bullshit and relevance from irrelevance if you have not been trained in that paradigm and have not had some clinical experience." --->

I like your wording here. In a few unclear cases I've tried to use symptom checkers with limited success (emedicine is much better). Often the symptom checkers will give you the major causes but also list 1000 other possibilities that are highly highly unlikely. You need clinical experience, ie. time seeing these and similar cases, to let you weed out what is relevant and what isn't. Probably over the next series of years the symptom checkers will get much much better.

On a side note, I think we use algorithms in our brain that are either initially built by conceptual knowledge or experiences and then emotionally sensitive feedback loops either strengthen these ideas or give us contrary data which leads us to review and renew our ideas. In Medical School you're building up the conceptual algorithms with limited experience, a lot of which you get when you start seeing patients.

[Kaizen]

'How do I get a doctor to actually pay attention, and not give me the first diagnosis that pops into his head'

Why do you assume you won't be paid attention to? The diagnosis will likely be based on your complaint. You can then decide if the given diagnosis explains things.

If you are seeing a specialist, they see the same shit day in day out. Giving you the right diagnosis is usually as hard as telling you the sky is blue. Unless theres blood coming out your orifices and you're worried about having Ebola, you more than likely have a straight forward diagnosis.

[philly22]

(01-22-2013 07:44 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 04:15 PM)philly22 Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 04:00 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 02:43 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  

How do I get a doctor to actually pay attention, and not give me the first diagnosis that pops into his head?

When you book your appointment, tell the receptionist that you have a difficult problem and that you are now seeking a third opinion. Mention that you think you need at least 30 minutes face-time with the doctor. If the doc/receptionist cannot accommodate you with this reasonable request, find someone who will.

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  

If there's beneficial drugs for comfort that I can get (Painkillers, sleeping pills, etc.) is there a way to make it more likely that he'll prescribe them?

Just ask. "Doc, what can you give me for sleep/erectile dysfunction/my aversion to fat women?"

Most doctors see themselves as service providers, you just have to define the service you want to provide.

(01-21-2013 12:48 PM)Faust Wrote:  

Is there any way to avoid having to wait like a month to see a specialist?

You can PM me for some unconventional ideas on this topic.

There's people on this thread talking about searching your symptoms on the net. Let me just say that for minor stuff that's okay, but no amount of googling will ever replace a wise and experienced doctor with mad clinical skillz. In fact, despite the massive mountains of info one has to absorb in medical school, the school I went to emphasised that it's impossible to know everything and put heavy emphasis on knowing what is normal and abnormal upon physical examination. Knowledge can always be looked up.
Therefore, here are 2 signs that you are under the care of a real doctor:
- He doesn't make a diagnosis until he's examined you
- If he doesn't know what's wrong with you, he'll admit it but will offer to look it up for you or refer you to the right specialist. It's a doctor's job to look up stuff he doesn't know. It's NOT a doctor's job to know everything, because that's just impossible.

Doctor bashing is popular on this forum and I guess it's because of the mercantile nature of American medicine (bill first, healthy patient later), but I think it's dangerous to think that when faced with a serious health issue, you can outgoogle a good doctor. A doctor is not trained to remember medical information, but rather to process it cognitively in a working paradigm for his patient. You can google the symptoms but you're not going to be able to tell fact from bullshit and relevance from irrelevance if you have not been trained in that paradigm and have not had some clinical experience.

The reason people bash doctors is because they are useless in the western world unless you have been in a car accident or have broken bones. Acute care the west excels at, everything else we lag the rest of the world.

Can you name me one disease that doctors have cured us of ? Of course not because there isn't any. But I can name several that doctors have created.

Alzheimer's
Parkinson's
Erectile dysfunction
Many cases of type II diabetes
There insistence of vaccines has led to an outbreak of dysfunctional children. Who can't learn or focus properly. Some may argue that vaccines don't cause autism, but I think the evidence shows clearly there is a link.

Doctors know nothing about nutrition, vitamins and minerals. The very basics of the human body and these guys don't have a clue. We are supposed to listen to them when it comes to our own health ?

How many of them got busted last year for accepting bribes from Big Pharma ? 1000's. Why would I believe a doctor has my best interest at heart when they are being paid off by a major drug company to pedal their ineffective drugs and down right harmful

Ever heard of " dead doctors don't lie " ? A doctor by the name of Joel Wallach did a simple research study about at what age do doctors die as compared to the rest of the country. Guess what he found ? The first time he did it he discovered that GP's died at the average age of 58, meanwhile the average fat ass in america lived to be 76. Why would that be ? Well because doctors tend to listen to their own advice, such as low cholesterol diets, low sodium diets and probably getting vaccinated. Now of course doctors came out in defense of this study, but really how could you fake it or even tweak it ? All he did was go through the JAMA obituaries of all the doctors who had died over the course of several years. So if the average doctor in america is living almost 20 years less than the average american, why would we listen to them ?

This post is so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

How exactly did doctor's create erectile dysfunction, type 2 diabetes etc? All those diseases have existed forever and now you can take a pill- levitra for ED or take insulin for diabetes and you're fine. Did you know back in the day people used to die from syphillis. Literally they would die. Now you take an antibiotic for 2 weeks and its like it never happened.

Doctors know nothing about minerals, vitamins. Um what? Everything that we do know about vitamins and minerals comes from doctors and scientists. I'm sure you could listen to some bogus guy on the internet claiming that mineral oil cures you of AIDS or you can go with the real treatment and get protease inhibitors. Yea- do you think Magic Johnson would still be alive right now if it wasn't for the advancements in medicine or would he be dead like everyone else who got AIDS in the 60's and 70's???

Maybe the reason physicians don't have as long life expectancy is because their lifestyle sucks and working 80+ hours a week and the stress isn't healthy.

And the worst statement of all about vaccines and autism- The ONE study that showed a link had a sample size of 12 patients. 12!!! And the guy published his study. A real study has hundreds or thousands of patients. The guy who published it has since left the scientific community because his study has led to hundreds of gullible soccer moms looking for a scapegoat on why their kid ended up with autism. Vaccines are probably the best thing that has ever come out in medicine and has led to the eradication of polio, small pox, mumps, rubella, measles, varicella etc. Doctors never cure anything. Do you know anyone who has had small pox??? Why - because its CURED.

Autism study link
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/aut...index.html

ED, Alzheimers, Parkinsons are caused by the low cholesterol diets that are vaunted doctors recommend. Testosterone comes solely from the manufacturing of cholesterol. Human body produces 10% of our daily need. Where are you supposed to get the rest if you aren't eating cholesterol ?

Secondly besides testosterone, our brains and nervous system again are almost entirely made up of cholesterol. At the least the solid mass parts. So how is your brain or nervous system supposed to repair itself if it isn't getting cholesterol ? Because not only are we told to eat low cholesterol diets they now have half the aging population on lowering cholesterol drugs. Which is now causing Type II diabetes and kidney failure. Granted Diabetes can be caused by numerous other things but a big part of that is now cholesterol drugs.

Doesn't take a medical degree to put these facts together. But you guys can rant all you want about our great doctors.

Also again for the record the study of dead doctors don't lie was done by comparings GP's. DO you guys not realize that is general practitioner ? Meaning working 40 hours a week. Not 80 like you guys keep thinking. AGain that is why the study is damning to the medical community. The study has been replicated several times and they kept finding the same thing, doctors die sooner than fat asses.

1) ED is caused by circulatory issues- when you get a boner it is because your penis is being flushed with fluid. How would cholesterol effect this?
2) You state that our brains and NS are made up almost entirely of cholesterol. - Cholesterol is part of the cell membrane which is in every cell in our body including the brain. Very few people have a shortage of cholesterol. Too much cholesterol is the common problem and leads to arterial blockage.
3) "Granted Diabetes can be caused by numerous other things but a big part of that is now cholesterol drugs." - No Type 2 diabetes is caused by one thing which is cellular resistance to insulin. To insinuate that this is related to intake of cholesterol lowering drugs is nonsense.
4) "Testosterone comes solely from the manufacturing of cholesterol". - Testosterone is a steroid hormone which is a related molecule of cholesterol so congrats that is the only quasi true statement in your post. However lack of cholesterol is not a problem for the majority of people and certainly has no impact in the diseases you mentioned.

[philly22]

(01-22-2013 07:58 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

And the autism link. You can deny it all you want. But the you are the most vaccinated country on the planet and you have the highest autistic rate on planet. Not to mention you rank 35th in the world for infant mortality rates. That is children dying under the age of 5.

How does that make sense ? Supposedly the super power of the planet and countries like cyprus, brunei, croatia, malta have better survival rates than the US of A.

How do you reconcile this ? highest autistic rate and a very high infant mortality rate ? Judging by your answers americans should be the healthiest people on the planet and certainly should not have so many children dying.

http://www.rescuepost.com/files/gr-autis...eport1.pdf

That study is from Generation Rescue which is an organization who's whole purpose is to prove this wive's tale which has managed to persist. Show me a real article from New England Journal of Medicine about this- or you can't because there are none. Only nonsense articles from biased organizations.

And if you read it all it says is that the US has the highest vac rate and the highest autism rate. So what - the US also has the best basketball players. So by that logic maybe vaccines cause you to be good at basketball. And also- autism is a subjective psych diagnosis. There isn't a clear cut medical test like HIV that you either have it or you don't. So maybe people in the US now are just more likely to be diagnosed with autism. In this generation the kid is autistic, back in the 70's he was just the weird kid that no one talked to.

[RawGod]

(01-22-2013 11:30 PM)philly22 Wrote:  

Too much cholesterol is the common problem and leads to arterial blockage.

Not true. Arterial blockage comes from arterial plaque: dietary cholesterol has nothing to do with this.

[MidniteSpecial]

Don't ever go to the doctor.

http://www.whatsreallygood.org/pops-from-jersey-city/

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(01-22-2013 08:02 PM)Soma Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 04:19 PM)philly22 Wrote:  

I apologize for the rant but I know how hard physicians work and that they save lives on a daily basis. So to think googling a bunch of non verifiable info on the internet which can be posted by ANYONE replaces a board certified physician's opinion is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on Roosh V.

I understand your sentiment but no need to feed the any further. (I have BIJ on ignore so can't see the further replies above.)

I also put him on ignore. He is far too emotional about his arguments, and too obsessed with being right, and starts bringing in straw men. I don't have the time/energy for this sort of shouting match.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(01-22-2013 11:48 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

(01-22-2013 11:30 PM)philly22 Wrote:  

Too much cholesterol is the common problem and leads to arterial blockage.

Not true. Arterial blockage comes from arterial plaque: dietary cholesterol has nothing to do with this.

That's unfair, philly didn't specifically refer to dietary cholesterol.

Plaques tend to form when macrophages scavenge up excess cholesterol and have nowhere to dump it.

But dietary cholesterol only makes up, at most, 10% of our total cholesterol and I don't routinely advocate cholesterol lowering diets except as a way to avoid having to prescribe cholesterol lowering drugs.

[BIGINJAPAN]

Ok last post on this with all links from what you guys would consider mainstream. Anyone want to continue the debate can PM me.

First off the side effects of statin drugs is diabetes. Mayo clinic. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/statins/CL00010
I wouldn't call this nonsense at all. Clear link is established between statins and diabetes.

Nice little link here from time magazine, you can click on the link to review the study. But basically says statins cause type II diabetes. Also funny enough it talks about how the FDA also had to include on warnings for not only type II diabetes but also cognitive brain function. The FDA said that statins may increase users’ risk of brain-related effects like memory loss and confusion. Gee what does that sound like ? Alzheimers anyone ?
http://healthland.time.com/2012/02/29/fd...tes-risks/

List of countries mortality rate. Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...ality_rate
US is still number 34. Congratulations

Is livestrong.com mainstream enough for you guys ? Here is how testosterone is made. Solely from cholesterol. So no it wasn't a quasi statement, it was pure fact. No cholesterol=no testosterone=no boner.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/222895...tosterone/

How the whole brain works and repairs itself. Pretty much the opposite of low cholesterol diet.
http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/fats.html
Go through the whole page it completely outlines how low cholesterol causes parkinsons, alzheimers.

[Faust]

You guys are awesome. This is some wonderful, wonderful, advice, and I'm very grateful you've taken the time to share your wisdom.

BIGINJAPAN, I've got immense respect for you based on your writings on this forum, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Let me use myself as an example.
I've spent the past five weeks in the worst pain of my life. Now, I haven't had the hard-ass upbringing of some of the posters here, but I'm a weightlifter, and people have always told me I've had a very high pain tolerance. So when I say "worst pain in my life", it's not coming from somebody whose biggest hardship is that they broke a nail five years ago. At one point 3 weeks ago, I stumbled into bed, and lay there in pure agony for four hours, unable to sleep, before finally passing out. As I slept, the same pain actually followed me into my dreams, where demons with blood dripping from their chests told me that the pain was eternal, and I would never be rid of it. It sounds silly when I write it: let me assure that it did not seem so at the time. A few days before I wrote this post, my ears were so messed up that I couldn't stand to be near my laptop, 'cause the fan was too loud. I described it at the time as "A broken modem blaring in the middle of a tornado, and both of them hooked up to a giant loudspeaker." The laptop fan doesn't break 80db even when it's running at full power. And what made it even worse was that NO ONE KNEW WHY. I saw multiple doctors, including a specialist, had a CAT scan, x-rays, the whole suite. The most they could do was give me a prescription-grade sleeping pill, and even with it I was only getting a few hours of sleep a night. It dragged on for a week, then another week, then another, and instead of getting better it was getting WORSE.

I never told any of my friends or family this, but a lot of times, in the middle of the night, when I couldn't sleep and couldn't focus through the pain enough to even read a book, I thought of just wandering out into the cold and freezing to death, 'cause at least then it would be over.

The day after I wrote this post, the last doctor I saw made a suggestion to try a simple OTC drug. Within 48 hours of starting it, I'd gone from being able to sleep 2 hours at a time (with a sleeping pill) to getting a full night's sleep without one. It's been up and down since then, and I'm still not fully recovered by any means, but I'm almost to the point where I can leave the house. I can focus enough to do my work. I can stand in a quiet room for more than a few minutes without wanting to blow my brains out. And this is all thanks to the advice of that doctor. So for you to say that doctors do nothing, and are of no help to anyone, strikes me as a little bit of an overgeneralization.

[philly22]

Ok your articles are from reputable sources so I looked at them. What they say is that these medications have an increased risk of developing certain diseases ex: type 2 diabetes. Not that they 'cause' them. When you put a medication into your body you are putting in a foreign substance which is designed to cause a change. Almost all medications have side effects and the medical community will tell you that. There is no magic pill which only affects the one thing you want it to and nothing else. Its a risk vs reward scenario. The dangers of high cholesterol outweigh the side effects. The article you cited even said the risk is 'small' and still being investigated. They don't advocate getting rid of these drugs.

Chemotherapy has some of the worst side of effects of any medication. But what is the alternative? Cancer is an uncontrolled proliferation of cells which NEVER goes away unless its treated with medicine or surgery. When they say someone 'beat' cancer its really modern medicine that beat cancer. But kudos to the patient for tolerating the side effects.

The article about the polio vac causing polio was the live virus version which is no longer used. The hpv vac just came out and the prevalence is already way down. Cervical cancer used to be a huge problem, now it is easily treated. How is that not a direct correlation to modern medicine?

I don't know what you would tell someone with developing prostate cancer to do but hopefully its not to just let it go or to try some weird eastern medicine vodoo. Giving bad advice on picking up girls is one thing. Giving bad advice on health is dangerous. My fathers life has been saved twice by 'western' medicine and I know that good medical treatment is a matter of life and death.

[BIGINJAPAN]

(01-23-2013 03:12 PM)Faust Wrote:  

You guys are awesome. This is some wonderful, wonderful, advice, and I'm very grateful you've taken the time to share your wisdom.

BIGINJAPAN, I've got immense respect for you based on your writings on this forum, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Let me use myself as an example.
I've spent the past five weeks in the worst pain of my life. Now, I haven't had the hard-ass upbringing of some of the posters here, but I'm a weightlifter, and people have always told me I've had a very high pain tolerance. So when I say "worst pain in my life", it's not coming from somebody whose biggest hardship is that they broke a nail five years ago. At one point 3 weeks ago, I stumbled into bed, and lay there in pure agony for four hours, unable to sleep, before finally passing out. As I slept, the same pain actually followed me into my dreams, where demons with blood dripping from their chests told me that the pain was eternal, and I would never be rid of it. It sounds silly when I write it: let me assure that it did not seem so at the time. A few days before I wrote this post, my ears were so messed up that I couldn't stand to be near my laptop, 'cause the fan was too loud. I described it at the time as "A broken modem blaring in the middle of a tornado, and both of them hooked up to a giant loudspeaker." The laptop fan doesn't break 80db even when it's running at full power. And what made it even worse was that NO ONE KNEW WHY. I saw multiple doctors, including a specialist, had a CAT scan, x-rays, the whole suite. The most they could do was give me a prescription-grade sleeping pill, and even with it I was only getting a few hours of sleep a night. It dragged on for a week, then another week, then another, and instead of getting better it was getting WORSE.

I never told any of my friends or family this, but a lot of times, in the middle of the night, when I couldn't sleep and couldn't focus through the pain enough to even read a book, I thought of just wandering out into the cold and freezing to death, 'cause at least then it would be over.

The day after I wrote this post, the last doctor I saw made a suggestion to try a simple OTC drug. Within 48 hours of starting it, I'd gone from being able to sleep 2 hours at a time (with a sleeping pill) to getting a full night's sleep without one. It's been up and down since then, and I'm still not fully recovered by any means, but I'm almost to the point where I can leave the house. I can focus enough to do my work. I can stand in a quiet room for more than a few minutes without wanting to blow my brains out. And this is all thanks to the advice of that doctor. So for you to say that doctors do nothing, and are of no help to anyone, strikes me as a little bit of an overgeneralization.

I am sorry to hear you are going through a lot of pain right now. But what you just described to me is exactly why our system does NOT work.

First off have you even gotten a diagnosis to what the problem is ? Obviously we all know pain is our body warning us something is desperately wrong.

Second, is this pill masking the problem ? Or is it fixing it ? All these drugs people take don't actually fix anything, they just mask the symptoms until something else shows up.

[philly22]

^ Complete BS.

If "these drugs people take don't actually fix anything" then explain to me how diseases which used to be deadly are now treatable. I just went to a talk given by a gay man who has had HIV for over 20 years. He is on 4 different HIV meds. How is he still alive when everyone who got AIDS before these drugs existed were dead in 5-10 years. How is Magic Johnson still alive and healthy?

They have side effects(obviously) but when the alternative is certain DEATH, how would you justify them not being used???

[sheesh]

BiginJapan, you clearly have no idea about the complexity of medicine and science in general. By the way, the majority of medical research is done by biologists, biochemists etc. and not by physicians so instead of blaming those greedy physicians, rather blame the biologists and biochemistry graduates who cannot deliver cures on demand. Medical science doesn't work that way. A car or an elevator can be fixed, but a lot of medical conditions can just be treated, not cured.

[callaghan]

Faust keep on seeing new doctors, did you have a full blood/urin test ? for example did you have checked the blood/urine tumor markers and staff like that ? It won't be that but do not leave any stone unturned..

I think highly of the real medical science
I think highly of all the doctors that work in A&E
I think highly of the doctors who volounteer and work for free in third world countries
In relation to the reminder:
I think highly of 10% of the doctor
for the reminder 90% unfortunately they are not more professional than Mc Donald 's cashiers, sometimes they give you the wrong burger or the wrong change you always have to double check what they do with second/third opinions and by yourself

But it is not big issue provided you keep on changing and seek new diagnosis, you will find the good ones eventually.

Write down exactly what you feel, when you feel it and how you feel it. Write it down. Seek new advice and remember that in the meantime in the web you can find:

resources for free to understand better what you have
health boards where actual doctors (sometimes very good and "famous"ones) answers for free to various questions

all the best

[Veloce]

Just skimmed over this...

While I'd never make a huge generalization and say that doctors or drugs don't fix anything, I will say that MOST of it is complete horseshit and I have little faith in the American Medical system.

That said, I'm grateful to the doctors that fixed my broken arm when I was a kid, and I know these guys save lives.

HOWEVER, when it comes to knowledge on health and what makes a healthy human body, I think most of them just regurgitate shit that they read in med school without having any true knowledge of what "health" is. Just look at doctors themselves; how often do they appear healthy?

I've had a flue for the last two weeks. The symptoms, while minor, didn't go away after 5 days so I went to a doctor just to confirm that the swelling in my throat wasn't more serious. First time I'd been to a doctor in about 10 years.

Sure enough it's nothing major. However this was a new practitioner so he was getting my full info. The shit he was feeding me was hilarious. One of our conversations:

Him: "Do you workout?"
Me: "Yes"
"What do you do"
"Lifting"
"Any cardio?"
"Almost none"
"That's not good. You want to get your heart rate up. Lifting doesn't do anything. You're just going to strain yourself and set yourself up for a stroke" (He said this!)
"Oh yeah?"
"Yes. At least half of your workout should be cardio, preferably more."
"Hm okay."

We go through my life history of injuries, treatments, etc, and then he asks me,
"Any other issues I should know about?"
Me, half joking: "I tend to piss a lot."
Him: "Do you drink a lot of water?"
Me: "A good amount"
"Why?"
"Um, to stay hydrated?"
"What makes you think you need a lot?"
"I've always heard that 8 full glasses a day is healthy"
"Says who?"
(me getting annoyed) "Conventional rhetoric"
"Exactly"

He said some shit after this about how I should only drink water when I'm thirsty and that noone needs 8 cups a day. I wasn't about to tell him that on workout days I probably drink almost a full gallon of water.

This was an older dude but he looked awful. Bad skin, thinning hair, telling ME, a strapping buck, that I shouldn't be lifting or drinking too much water. This is a guy with plaques, certificates, fellowships, and entire wall of framed documents representing a lifetime of medical academia, telling me this bullshit.

[Kaizen]

Doctors deal with disease and not with prevention.

It's a minority of people that are enlightened and wish to live healthy etc. If you fit in this category, good for you. Best to get advice from whatever source is best-nutritionists, naturopaths, few MDs that focus on this, etc.

However, the majority of people are fat asses that smoke, etc. despite knowing this is bad for them. These people are resistant to advice of any form.

So modern medicine is currently designed perfectly for the masses.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(01-26-2013 12:51 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

Just skimmed over this...

While I'd never make a huge generalization and say that doctors or drugs don't fix anything, I will say that MOST of it is complete horseshit and I have little faith in the American Medical system... The symptoms, while minor, didn't go away after 5 days so I went to a doctor just to confirm that the swelling in my throat wasn't more serious. First time I'd been to a doctor in about 10 years.

I think it's sad that you are willing to generalise from a sample size of 1 doctor in 10 years. Are there really no good doctors in the USA?

@bigxxx

Living healthy is not difficult. Lift weights, move your body as much as possible, a little cardio here and there, avoid processed foods/sugars, avoid starch, laugh, smile, don't smoke, don't stress. You don't need a naturopath or a nutritionist, who in any case peddle vitamins/supplements made by companies owned by big pharma.

I find it weird that people bash doctors for being slaves to Big Pharma and then go off and buy vitamins that are made by... Big Pharma. The major pharamceutical companies bought out most of the vitamin companies in the 90's already.

[sheesh]

(01-26-2013 05:08 PM)bigxxx Wrote:  

Doctors deal with disease and not with prevention.

That's because most illnesses cannot be prevented.

Also, you don't need to study medicine to tell people that living off of coke, cigarettes and fries is not healthy.

There is a huge hype about healthy living and prevention when in fact most of the stuff has never been proven to be of any benefit whatsoever.

[sheesh]

(01-27-2013 01:24 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 12:51 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

Just skimmed over this...

While I'd never make a huge generalization and say that doctors or drugs don't fix anything, I will say that MOST of it is complete horseshit and I have little faith in the American Medical system... The symptoms, while minor, didn't go away after 5 days so I went to a doctor just to confirm that the swelling in my throat wasn't more serious. First time I'd been to a doctor in about 10 years.

I think it's sad that you are willing to generalise from a sample size of 1 doctor in 10 years. Are there really no good doctors in the USA?

@bigxxx

Living healthy is not difficult. Lift weights, move your body as much as possible, a little cardio here and there, avoid processed foods/sugars, avoid starch, laugh, smile, don't smoke, don't stress. You don't need a naturopath or a nutritionist, who in any case peddle vitamins/supplements made by companies owned by big pharma.

I find it weird that people bash doctors for being slaves to Big Pharma and then go off and buy vitamins that are made by... Big Pharma. The major pharamceutical companies bought out most of the vitamin companies in the 90's already.

Vitamins are the biggest scam ever !Snake oil companies pulling billions out of peoples pockets by selling pills without any effect.