[zorgon]

Under what circumstances would you make a second phone call or other followup (maybe a text?) to a girl if she didn't call you back when you left a message the first time? Never? Only for a sufficiently strong # (how strong)? Since callback rates are often poor I'm just wondering if anyone has ever gotten anywhere with trying to call a second time.

My experience is that if she doesn't pick up when you call the first time, it's probably a lost cause. I know Roosh has observed that girls don't pick up unknown numbers; I haven't necessarily found that to be true. The way I've always seen it, it's just that girls are ultra-flaky about returning calls.

One other related question. I haven't updated my phone # since moving to Austin. Everyone here has 512 area codes (city's not big enough to split it yet) or occasionally other Texas area codes from Dallas/Houston; I still have 408 from California. Am I hurting myself with my phone's area code? My guess is "yes, I need to change it right away" -- I imagine that it would decrease the chance that someone will pick up on an unknown number.

[Roosh]

Never. If it was strong she would have called you back.

Girls don't usually pick up from unknown numbers anyway. Area code will make no difference. In Dc people come from all over the country and my phone is full of different area codes.

[Basil Ransom]

Generally speaking, Roosh is probably right. But there isn't much harm in calling a second time. It's more of a mindset thing.

My procedure: After I get a number, call her a couple days later. For whatever reason, maybe 'cause it's college, I always get an answering machine first. I say "Hey, it's [my first name], call me back." If nothing happens for a couple days, I'll send a text. If a week or so goes by and no response, delete the number.

[twigman]

One last ditch effort is possible. "Playing hard to get? Nice!!". A bit on the desperate side though. Whats so special she deserves this extra text?

Remember you're a great guy, you don't need to chase tail down dark tunnels. Theres another million girls out there in the sun.

Its not the right mindset to do this follow up shit. I've never done it, and wouldn't do it.

[Trotter]

That's why I think you have to make sure your first phone call is powerful. That woman could have handed her number out to 20 guys over the weekend and just can't remember which 'Zorgon' you are, or if she was sober when she gave it to ya. Your approach has to be memorable, and your follow up call should be equally memorable if not more. You need to dinstinguish yourself from the other guys.

I generally am upbeat and positive when I called a girl's number for the first time. Give your name, where you met, and describe an event that happened that night to jog her memory. Don't say "remember me?"

Case in point: Hot, blonde, waitress from the Taphouse. I got her number and made the first call a couple of days later.

Me: "Hey, <her name>, it's <me>. We met at the Taphouse the other night and I still can't believe the fight that went down. Anyway, I had a great time either way and you had a lot of fun when<insert my secret activity that I used when approaching women>. I've got this thing coming up and you need to come because it's going to be a lot of fun. <leave number>."

Anyhow, it was a voice mail message I left and I don't exactly remember it verbatim, but the jist of it is there. I guess she was screening her calls, but 5 minutes later she called me back and we arranged our first date. The first things she brought up were precisely the things I mentioned on her voicemail.

As far as the second phone call goes my rule is never. That's just my rule though. My belief is if I didn't made a good enough impression on her during the approach and the first call then she wasn't convinced and I'm not going to put anymore energy into convincing her. I think if you had a good game all the way through she'll return the call no longer than a day later. I have had experiences where I've gotten calls weeks after, but those were unique circumstances.

[broken]

Aww, Austin.

Having lived in Austin for 13 years, I can tell you that you will see her again.
50,000 students and a bunch of retired young people, you're only real options to go out are
- warehouse district
- kerbey lane/magnolia/rudy's/ruby's
- 6th street
- private university parties.

So if she didn't call back, don't sweat it.

The key is how you act when you see her again. (and you will, be it at AMF bowling lanes, the mall, on the Drag, @ Alamo Draft House, Bob Marley Fest, ACL, SXSW)

You can't be angry that she didn't call you, chicks don't live in a reality that requires them to honor commitments, hell she doesn't even see it as a commitment, as anything really...

Hit on her again, but go further this time. Make her say no and totally blow you out. Go hard or go home.

My general phone rules
- Don't take the # w/o a super strong close *and* logistical failure to go further

- Text that night (I think these 2 girls are fighting outside, or one of the classic crazy stories that other people tell)

And always end your text with your name

Example

408-567-932

"Great time tonight, i'm at Kerbey Lane, that chick with the crazy hair is here and she's barfing all over her short stack, i'ts hilarious

- zorgon"

- Call in a day or so

- Don't jog her memory, just start with the "funniest thing happened today...." - you have to rebuild the attraction, not expect her to remember it. Too much of, "I was the guy in the skinny jeans, converse, and ironic t-shirt" will stale out the whole convo. I don't establish identity at the very beginning.

In my experience, you're not a strong call back unless

- You've already blown her back out - and in Austin, that's not even sure fire, given the girls are generally young and have all sorts of options for sex on call.

- You have something she really wants (drugs, access to clubs, cool person in the cool clique) = If I smoked Mary Juana in ATX....I would have broken 100 by now.

[Trotter]

Next time you might want to try: "Are you going to answer from this number because if not I don't want it."

I've used it a couple of times though I'm not entirely certain about the effectiveness of it overall since I wasn't overly concerned about call backs. It's something I read from a David D'Angelo email or something.

[zorgon]

(09-24-2008 03:47 PM)broken Wrote:  

I can tell you that you will see her again.

Bah. You just *have* to assume that I'm talking about someone in particular. Actually, no, my last # where I left a message *did* get a call back, whereas the last # where a girl picked up, she blew me off and that was that. I've just found calls back to be rare, that's all, which makes me wonder if there's anything important I should be doing to increase the percentages. (And most likely, the answer is that it's not the call itself that will affect my chances, it's the interaction *before* the call.)

And yes, you are right, certain faces are starting to look familiar these days... heck, there's this one girl who, every time I see her, I accuse her of stalking me. I could try to push it further but she's not worth it.

[Trotter]

Years ago I had a buddy that could meet a girl, exchange numbers, and in most cases THEY called him. But he was one of those rare guys that had everything going for him. Apparently extremely good looking, charismatic, nice car, and all that stuff. I remember one time where he called some girl he just met.

Dave: "Hey, it's Dave. Wanna come over to my place."

Ten minutes later she's there.

There was this one chick that just got a boob job and she was still all bruised up from it. He calls her, she comes over, she talks about how bruised up she is from her new boob job. I tell her to show us her new work, she takes her shirt off to show off her new goods, Dave takes her up stairs, she goes home an hour later.

Sometimes I hated that guy.

[Roosh]

Trotter: and if you ask him how he does it he won't be able to tell you! lucky bastard

[Trotter]

Some guys just have it like that. Fortunately, he was a really cool and chill dude though.

[twigman]

(09-24-2008 04:41 PM)Trotter Wrote:  

Next time you might want to try: "Are you going to answer from this number because if not I don't want it."

I don't like that David D'Angelo quote, IMHO girls view it as pushy, and I don't think David D would even use it. If that kind of crap works it is something I"m obviously got to learn. You're basically trying to get her to give you a promise - by force, not because she wants to do it. And after you part she'll remember your neediness not the promise she gave.

I like some advice he gave to get an email instead. I think thats an interesting strategy.

[X-Factor]

All very good advice so far concerning no second call, and I give reps to Trotter for his game. Well done sir.

I won't repeat what everybody has said, but will add my own two cents on how to (hopefully) break past that initial call screen and create a little more rapport. I have found that my callbacks increased with this method, but I still get flaked on. Everybody does. No big deal.

When I'm closing for a number, I'll hand my phone to her. Sometimes I'll just ask for the number and put it in the phone myself. Either way it doesn't really matter. I prefer the former over the latter simply because you have to opportunity for a bit o' kino. But when you have the number, just press Send. It does one of two things:

1) Makes sure she didn't give you a fake number, but more importantly
2) It puts your number in her phone.

Now, this is not a fail-safe method. It could backfire on you, because as Trotter so wisely pointed out, if you didn't make a great, memorable first impression, she'll just screen you out anyway. But I think you can get more chance at building rapport through this. There are endless ways you can bust on her while this exchange is taking place. And we all know that a little light-hearted ribbing and teasing goes a long way.

This tactic is nothing new and I certainly am not claiming it as my own. However, I've used it with better-than-average results. Just adding my two cents to the post.

[Djonna]

(09-22-2008 09:59 PM)zorgon Wrote:  

Under what circumstances would you make a second phone call or other followup (maybe a text?) to a girl if she didn't call you back when you left a message the first time? Never? Only for a sufficiently strong # (how strong)? Since callback rates are often poor I'm just wondering if anyone has ever gotten anywhere with trying to call a second time.

My experience is that if she doesn't pick up when you call the first time, it's probably a lost cause. I know Roosh has observed that girls don't pick up unknown numbers; I haven't necessarily found that to be true. The way I've always seen it, it's just that girls are ultra-flaky about returning calls.

One other related question. I haven't updated my phone # since moving to Austin. Everyone here has 512 area codes (city's not big enough to split it yet) or occasionally other Texas area codes from Dallas/Houston; I still have 408 from California. Am I hurting myself with my phone's area code? My guess is "yes, I need to change it right away" -- I imagine that it would decrease the chance that someone will pick up on an unknown number.

ok.... You guys will "hate" me for saying this but, I'll be honest. First. I'm glad to see that you're calling her and she's NOT calling you. That's the way it should be and you're starting off on the right foot. Secondly.... I have to admit, that I don't always pick up the phone when a man calls. Unfortunately, it's the "game of dating". I'm going to guess that YOU WILL TRY TO CALL HER AGAIN BECAUSE? You probably are wondering why she's not picking up, which will probably be an indication to you, that she's not interested; if she's showing you she's not interested, you want to know why or just simply like the challenge. It doesn't mean it's a lost cause. What it does mean is that she is testing you to see just how badly you want to take her out OR she simply isn't interested at all. But, if you've called two or three times and she still fails to pick up the phone, it's obvious at that point there's no interest. Yes! You will call again. I guarantee it!

Yes, guys, we like to challenge you.... Sorry, but, that's the truth....

[Djonna]

I think you might try an email; see if there's a response there. If she doesn't respond to the email or doesn't respond to two or three (at the most) calls.... Yeah, it's time to forget this chick.

[Djonna]

(09-24-2008 02:21 PM)Trotter Wrote:  

That's why I think you have to make sure your first phone call is powerful. That woman could have handed her number out to 20 guys over the weekend and just can't remember which 'Zorgon' you are, or if she was sober when she gave it to ya. Your approach has to be memorable, and your follow up call should be equally memorable if not more. You need to dinstinguish yourself from the other guys.

I generally am upbeat and positive when I called a girl's number for the first time. Give your name, where you met, and describe an event that happened that night to jog her memory. Don't say "remember me?"

Case in point: Hot, blonde, waitress from the Taphouse. I got her number and made the first call a couple of days later.

Me: "Hey, <her name>, it's <me>. We met at the Taphouse the other night and I still can't believe the fight that went down. Anyway, I had a great time either way and you had a lot of fun when<insert my secret activity that I used when approaching women>. I've got this thing coming up and you need to come because it's going to be a lot of fun. <leave number>."

Anyhow, it was a voice mail message I left and I don't exactly remember it verbatim, but the jist of it is there. I guess she was screening her calls, but 5 minutes later she called me back and we arranged our first date. The first things she brought up were precisely the things I mentioned on her voicemail.

As far as the second phone call goes my rule is never. That's just my rule though. My belief is if I didn't made a good enough impression on her during the approach and the first call then she wasn't convinced and I'm not going to put anymore energy into convincing her. I think if you had a good game all the way through she'll return the call no longer than a day later. I have had experiences where I've gotten calls weeks after, but those were unique circumstances.

NEVER NEVER NEVER will a woman hand her number 20 times in a night. Depending upon how long it takes for a man to call a woman after the first date? Expect her to take that long to respond and maybe an extra day. If you're in no hurry to call her; she's NOT going to be in a hurry to respond.

[Trotter]

If a woman handed her number out 20 times in a night then there's probably deeper issues here. But I'm very sure it's not unheard of for a woman to hand her number out a few times over the weekend whatever the pretense. I've known women that are 'dating' to hand out their numbers quite a few times over the course of a weekend. If the guy doesn't make a lasting impression on her then asking for the number is very close to being for naught.

[zorgon]

(09-27-2008 07:54 PM)X-Factor Wrote:  

When I'm closing for a number, I'll hand my phone to her.

Yep, I already do this. For example, last night after the Beck concert at ACL:

Her: "Hey, we're leaving, it was nice to meet you"
Me: [touch shoulder] "We should hang out sometime this week, what nights are you free?"
Her: "Uhhh, I actually don't know yet"
Me: "Here, give me your number [hand over phone] and I'll give you a call when I'm recovered from all this"
She enters number with zero resistance. (Not exactly a surprise, we had chatted a bit already and she had offered me some of her pot earlier, which I figure counts as a show of interest; I don't smoke pot, though)

As far as immediately calling the number goes... well, first, I've never once gotten a fake number. Does that actually happen? It if does, it must be so rare that there's no point worrying about it.

I do think there's something to be said for getting the number in her phone, but there is one problem. I know it sounds weird for those of you who live in DC or other big cities, and it's weird to me too (even in Minnesota we had 3 area codes for the Twin Cities), but the last two times in a row a girl entered her number in my phone, she entered it without an area code -- argh! So I have to fix it later. Honestly, even tech-savvy people here have borrowed my phone and been confused after I told them they had to dial 10 digits. Or, have started taking my number and said "ok, 512... then what?" and acted all weirded out when I told them, "no, no, it's 408, not 512." I think I will be getting a prepaid cell phone when my current contract runs out, so I'll make the switch in a few months when I do that.

[zorgon]

(09-27-2008 08:28 PM)Djonna Wrote:  

But, if you've called two or three times and she still fails to pick up the phone, it's obvious at that point there's no interest. Yes! You will call again. I guarantee it!

Ummm, no I won't. Certainly not after the additional feedback from here. The first call, I'll always leave a message. If I get a call back, all is well. If not, either it's over, or there is the slim possibility I may send a text or something.

My suggestion to you: maybe you should just call the guy back when he leaves a message rather than engaging in some of these "I'm going to wait for you to call again" mind games... I mean, I understand if someone doesn't answer a phone number they don't recognize, but when you say I might call a girl several times because I "like the challenge", huh??? No, if a girl is that much trouble and is playing that many mind games from day one, can you imagine how much of a pain she'll be later?

[Roosh]

At the end of the year 95% of your phone numbers will have gone nowhere. It's hard to identify what you did "wrong", but look at the ones that did go somewhere and repeat the things you think worked. Positive reinforcement, i say.

[zorgon]

Hmmm, I guess my string of bad luck on the phone is over... last 2 numbers = 2 dates planned! Woohoo!

I still consider myself a total novice at Game, but it's increasingly obvious to me how well this stuff works and how accurately the basic principles of Game let you predict the outcome in advance. For example, phone conversation tonight with Beck-girl (see earlier in thread)... we spoke briefly earlier and she said she was on hold with the cable company, and I said, "ok, I was about to head to the gym in a few minutes, so just call me back when you get a chance", to which her reply was "or you could call me when you get back from the gym." This immediately set off blaring "SHE'S INTERESTED" klaxons in my head. (Whereas previously I would have been confused -- "uhhh, should I call her back, or should I wait for her to call, or...? I don't know what to do!")

Then just 5-10 minutes after I stepped out the door she called back and left a message saying she was sorry for cutting me off. Back in the day this would have had me all freaking out "OMG A GIRL IS INTERESTED IN ME! What ever shall I do?" Now I just calmly call her back and tease her for not being able to go 10 minutes without talking to me... false time constraint to keep the phone conversation short ("I'm starving after my workout, I have to make dinner")... plan the date... and that's it. Then, call back girl #2 to set up date #2.

I almost feel like I've been granted evil magical powers or something...