[jerome]

I was having a debate with my friend on why I believe VIP tables at night clubs will stay.....

The night club game has recently change in th last 5 years, where most night club will segregate about 50 percent of the club for VIP tables....

In the past, bars use to dominate the scene, which allow for male and female interaction.

As we all know VIP tables kill female and male interaction and turn it into a Kim Kardashian reality show.

My friend was arguing that eventually the guys who pay for VIP tables will eventually figure out getting tables do not get you laid.

My argument is that for every guy who figure out VIP table is BS, there are new beta males turning 21 and replacing them in herds.

The feminist american machine, can produce more beta men, than the manosphere can convert.....

So my friend, there is no End to VIP tables, they are here to stay.

The only way VIP tables will ever have a decline, will be due to the manosphere.

Until than feminism will rule the club scene, and women will drink for free and get VIP treament, and men will pay a hefty fee and be a second class citizen in night clubs.

[HiFlo]

No, VIP tables mean bottle service, means profits. Besides, if you're one of the VIP you think you're better than everyone else (addicting feeling), and if you're not VIP you WANT TO be.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-03-2013 02:06 PM)jerome Wrote:  

I was having a debate with my friend on why I believe VIP tables at night clubs will stay.....

The night club game has recently change in th last 5 years, where most night club will segregate about 50 percent of the club for VIP tables....

In the past, bars use to dominate the scene, which allow for male and female interaction.

I get where you are going with all this, but VIP tables have been around for a long time.

[BurnFirst]

I've never met anyone dumb enough to do it.

[kosko]

The tables will stay. The Clubs (as we know them now) will be toast though. They will scale down to more "Supper" type lounges or scale up to big multi-level "event places". All filled with tables.

Social Media could be the game changers that destroys or resurrects the Club scene. If clubs can use Social Media in house to get interaction going between people then it will be a plus. If not the isolation and disconnectedness it causes will destroy the Club scene.

The one thing Toronto does well is be one step ahead of 90% of places when it comes to nightlife. Since we were the home of Clubland a lot of Bar owners still just jack new ideas or think up their own. Tables are still focal points in bars but the trend now is to scale up - Multi-use "event spaces" which are more or less designed to hold shows for big DJ fad that is going on now. Or the scale down to tight "supper clubs" which squeeze money of serving half-descent food. But the biggest trend is just more and more smaller venues. Toronto has to many bars for its size and it waters down the nightlife dynamics. There is probably a thousand bars in the town that only hold 50 people max. One of my favorite bars in the Winter when the patio is closed probably holds 30 people max. There is always a line.

(01-03-2013 02:22 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(01-03-2013 02:06 PM)jerome Wrote:  

I was having a debate with my friend on why I believe VIP tables at night clubs will stay.....

The night club game has recently change in th last 5 years, where most night club will segregate about 50 percent of the club for VIP tables....

In the past, bars use to dominate the scene, which allow for male and female interaction.

I get where you are going with all this, but VIP tables have been around for a long time.

This is true but the difference now is that Clubs designate a majority if not all their space to Booths. I've seen Toronto clubs cram booths near the bathrooms and sell standing bottle service at the bar.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-03-2013 02:26 PM)kosko Wrote:  

This is true but the difference now is that Clubs designate a majority if not all their space to Booths. I've seen Toronto clubs cram booths near the bathrooms and sell standing bottle service at the bar.

You mean like this?

[jerome]

^^^^^^^Those table were free back than, just as long as you paid for food and drinks, and the drinks and food were decent back than.

Today you pay 2000 for shitty vodka and cheap orange juice...good luck getting anything more than that.

Also during the 1950's those are consider lounges and tables, but people didn't pay to sit at a booth or table, it was more like a lounge where you had meetings with friends over drinks.

The VIP table today is much different animal.

[speakeasy]

VIP tables exploded because they are immensely profitable. It will get to the point(if we aren't there already) where the only hope you have of getting laid in a club is by showing your status with bottle service. It also allows the club to let in lame guys willing to drop a lot of money who normally wouldn't get past the doorman.

They're selling a dream. Buy these bottles and beautiful women will see your status and want to sleep with you. I take it happens enough or VIP service would've died out long ago. On the Confessions of a Hollywood Promotor blog(now defunct), the blogger mentioned a nightclub where the owners were concerned about getting more sluts in the door because the bottle service guys weren't getting laid.

It's like the airline model. The 15% of the passengers sitting in the front paying insane seat prices for first/business class are what makes the airline money. It's not the guy in row 40 with his 21 day advanced purchase $100 flight from LAX to JFK. For those of us in the back, flying sucks and the airline basically doesn't give a shit about us or our experience. The guys paying $3000 for a cross-country ticket are pampered and taken care of. Bottle service customers probably feel the same way. Getting in the club with bottle service is like flying first class.

[Screwston]

Relevant
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-14700.html

[tomtud]

When girls get a table they seldom invite guys to join. But men, any chick walking that is above a 6 in looks is drinking and sitting in a booth for free.

There are more than enough venues where there isn't an emphasis on VIP tables. These tabes will stay.....they are profitable. There is a club in Toronto where I heard they pay girls to party in the VIP area. It's like a strip joint, the girls are all friendly......doesn't happen in reality.

If you don't like those clubs, stick to the lounges, dive bars, restaurants or simple day game.

[DVY]

no its here to stay, because its a prime-money maker.

@G-manifesto- Tables and VIP tables have always existed, but not at this level EVERYWHERE in LA/Vegas.

I believe i read an article by the founder of SBE (big night club guy here in LA), he mentioned that bottle prices were extrapolated based on prices of bartenders making drinks per shot for regular clients and multiplied against whole bottle.

This is contrast to most of the world (at least from what i have seen -Asia (Mongolia, China, Taiwan, Thailand) and Mexico), where bottles are sold at 2-4 times store markup because staff costs are essentially zero, but chasers are sold at regular inflated club prices.

[Merenguero]

(01-03-2013 02:56 PM)tomtud Wrote:  

When girls get a table they seldom invite guys to join.

In other countries, especially Mexico, girls invite me to join them all the time. It happens pretty much every time I go out out in Mexico. In the United States, that doesn't happen very often. It happens to me sometimes in Miami.

[TheMachinist]

I'm kinda over every club trying to provide a "South Beach" vibe...when they aint in South Beach.There just aren't enough local high rollers where I live to support the amount of catering to that crowd that goes on.I've worked in the nightclub business from every level from the door guy,kitchen help,DJ,promoter to management.Where I live it's the average people that bring in the money NOT a handful of high rollers.To make $$$ in the club business you need a place where WOMEN feel safe,secure and that they feel like they can have a good time in.The men and the money follow the women.

[Timoteo]

I think you're lumping VIP and bottle service together. VIP will always be just that...for VIPs, namely celebrities to be roped off from the rest of the crowd. Almost anyone can get bottle service, and it's just a mechanism for the club to guarantee itself a certain amount of money, and the patron to get access because they're pledging a minimum amount. They don't necessarily rope those tables off, and it isn't a barrier to interacting with women. If you don't come with chicks, chicks will come by the table to mooch free booze, or you can INVITE them over to join you.

[Lou pai]

"My argument is that for every guy who figure out VIP table is BS, there are new beta males turning 21 and replacing them in herds."

VIP/bottle service is not going to go away and just because you get it does not mean you are a beta trying to impress chicks. I live in NYC and have gotten bottle service because if you are the club and drinking its about the same price as buying individual drinks. Also its nice having the ability to sit down and people mixing drinks for you. If you go to the club with some friends and girls, its better to get bottle service than trying to find space at the bar.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-03-2013 02:59 PM)DVY Wrote:  

This is contrast to most of the world (at least from what i have seen -Asia (Mongolia, China, Taiwan, Thailand) and Mexico), where bottles are sold at 2-4 times store markup because staff costs are essentially zero, but chasers are sold at regular inflated club prices.

Bottle service was popular in Mexico even way back in the 90's.

Bottle Service: America’s Nightlife Nightmare

[DVY]

@G-manifesto- OK. My point is that the mark-ups are completely different. 2-4 times markup versus 20 times markup here.

For a big group, it is and was better to buy bottles and share, then to individually purchase drinks.

At high-ends in Asia, you don't pay for tables. You can reserve tables(small fee) or just claim empty ones when you arrive. Thus club table is not VIP club table. VIP = separate room or select tables in key strategic positions aka next to DJ/ private isolated rooms.

In Asia, you do pay for VIP baller rooms. Its an additional surcharge, but can be waived depending on how much you spend/bribe/tip.

Saw these ridiculous rooms on my trip. In taipei, one room had two tables in the room, ceiling to floor glass overlooking the city, private bathroom. Pretty posh.

Furthermore, just because you have a table, doesnt make you a VIP...unlike the hype in America. Somebody tried to sell me a standing table at the club with enough space for 3 people in the back corner of club....case in point

edit- just read your blog post. i think we agree on most points.

[rationalize_this]

Absolutely not.

Best thing to do is just embrace it. Roll with a few cuties, be smooth, and you'll be drinking from the bottle for free.

Sometimes I wish I could go back in time to the 50s in NYC when it was all who you knew, what social clubs you were in, and if you mattered or not. Not the fake glam and glitz of girls who think they are relevant.

"Is that Rationalize at Sinatra's table?" <fine blonde>

[Emancipator]

Bars and nightlife has largely become a social event to go with friends, not to meet people. It's a shame that in the past people going out in the pictures above were largely going to have meaningful social interactions not just to attention whore like the lizards of today are doing.

[germanico]

(01-03-2013 02:26 PM)kosko Wrote:  

I've seen Toronto clubs cram booths near the bathrooms and sell standing bottle service at the bar.

I only started seeing this down here recently and I was amazed how there where people willing to pay extra just to have somewhere to place their drink. There wasnt even a special area designated for this so you could claim privileged status, they just brought a table from the back room and placed it right there on the aisle.

[Merenguero]

(01-03-2013 07:45 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

Absolutely not.

Best thing to do is just embrace it. Roll with a few cuties, be smooth, and you'll be drinking from the bottle for free.

Sometimes I wish I could go back in time to the 50s in NYC when it was all who you knew, what social clubs you were in, and if you mattered or not. Not the fake glam and glitz of girls who think they are relevant.

"Is that Rationalize at Sinatra's table?" <fine blonde>

A friend of mine who passed away not too long ago was a big shot in the New York social scene in the 50's. That guy had stories for years. My favorite story was the one where he was out with Don Larsen and some girls the night before Larsen threw the perfect game in the world series. Some girl who sweated Larsen said to my friend, "There's no way he can pitch tomorrow. He's too drunk.". Larsen woke up and threw a perfect game.

[mangadooza]

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with bottle service. Yes, some people who get it are losers. But it's a luxury that makes things easier. Saying shit like "I've never met anyone enough dumb enough to drop 2k on a table" is retarded. That kind of money is a drop in the bucket to a ton of people in certain circles. Why wouldn't they pay and enjoy the added perks, much like how you might splurge the same relative amount of your salary on a steak at the Cheesecake Factory every now and then?

I used to get to mooch off that shit reguarly with rich foreigner friends in college. They were from India/China and absolutely loaded. I barely put in any money, but it goes without saying that it helps for getting laid.

Hot girls get funneled into the VIP section, and the main area gets the scraps. You can also "order" what kind of girl you want your host to bring to you, and he'll go outside to the massive line and pick them out for you. That shit about bar fights and drunk assholes? Doesn't happen in VIP. People, in general, are more refined and bouncers are more vigilant. Much easier to get a girl drunk off your own bottle than at a bar where it takes 10 minutes just to get a shot. Oh, and if you have tight game, you can run it on the typically very hot bottle girls. Want to do some coke off the blonde you just met? Your host has some readily available. Just fun all around if you have the change for it.

And just for reference, when I say VIP, I mean 2k-10k at the higher end clubs in NYC, Vegas, etc. All of the above doesn't apply if you're dropping $300 at your local shithole college club on the Jersey Shore.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-03-2013 07:54 PM)germanico Wrote:  

(01-03-2013 02:26 PM)kosko Wrote:  

I've seen Toronto clubs cram booths near the bathrooms and sell standing bottle service at the bar.

I only started seeing this down here recently and I was amazed how there where people willing to pay extra just to have somewhere to place their drink. There wasnt even a special area designated for this so you could claim privileged status, they just brought a table from the back room and placed it right there on the aisle.

Wood 35 in Montreal had this.

It made the place suck in my opinion.

[jariel]

(01-03-2013 02:06 PM)jerome Wrote:  

My friend was arguing that eventually the guys who pay for VIP tables will eventually figure out getting tables do not get you laid.

I won't argue that it gets you laid, but at the big clubs on South Beach, VIP is the difference between being there and getting women's attention while you're there.

[Timoteo]

(01-03-2013 08:11 PM)mangadooza Wrote:  

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with bottle service. Yes, some people who get it are losers. But it's a luxury that makes things easier. Saying shit like "I've never met anyone enough dumb enough to drop 2k on a table" is retarded. That kind of money is a drop in the bucket to a ton of people in certain circles. Why wouldn't they pay and enjoy the added perks, much like how you might splurge the same relative amount of your salary on a steak at the Cheesecake Factory every now and then?

I used to get to mooch off that shit reguarly with rich foreigner friends in college. They were from India/China and absolutely loaded. I barely put in any money, but it goes without saying that it helps for getting laid.

Hot girls get funneled into the VIP section, and the main area gets the scraps. You can also "order" what kind of girl you want your host to bring to you, and he'll go outside to the massive line and pick them out for you. That shit about bar fights and drunk assholes? Doesn't happen in VIP. People, in general, are more refined and bouncers are more vigilant. Much easier to get a girl drunk off your own bottle than at a bar where it takes 10 minutes just to get a shot. Oh, and if you have tight game, you can run it on the typically very hot bottle girls. Want to do some coke off the blonde you just met? Your host has some readily available. Just fun all around if you have the change for it.

And just for reference, when I say VIP, I mean 2k-10k at the higher end clubs in NYC, Vegas, etc. All of the above doesn't apply if you're dropping $300 at your local shithole college club on the Jersey Shore.

I had the privilege of being the guest of a friend that had a nice set-up like this in Vegas over a weekend. He was being mentored in business by a software magnate (and older Indian guy that sells security software, and he was wining and dining potential clients). He held down a table at The Bank in Vegas for 4 nights running. He told my boy to invite all of his boys out, and not to worry about it. He didn't even hang a lot of the night. He just gave one of the guys approval to sign the bill at the end of the night. Hosts at the club went around picking hot girls to bring to the table (though not all of them were hot...I guess the talent level was low some nights...HA HA!). It's nice to be able to roll that way every now and then. In NY on occasion when a few of us are together we've gone in on a table because we didn't want to wait, and just wanted to be able to chill without always going to the bar. I'm not a club guy really, but every now and then when I decide to do it, bottle service is the way to go.