[kenny_powers]

(01-04-2013 04:43 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

The only local dudes in Miami with money are the ones who work in the high-end real estate industry.

The only other major industries in Miami are the tourism/hospitality industry and the Spanish language media, and those industries don't pay well unless you are at the top.

Most of the dudes who have real money in Miami made their cash somewhere else and bought real estate in Miami. Miami is perfect for buying real estate in because Florida has no state income tax, so having a second home/condo there won't get you hit with a state income tax.

It is a great tax haven. A lot wealthy people set up residence here. They will buy the most expensive house possible and homestead it. Can't touch homesteaded property in FL.

[Menace]

A more interesting question is what is the best US city for a starting player? What's the Phillipines/Thailand of the US (I mean girls who require 50% less work than Miami girls, not poverty, etc.) ? Austin? New Orleans?

[WestCoast]

(01-04-2013 04:17 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

(01-04-2013 04:09 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Yeah I have been to Miami and have no clue what those guys do for work. What I gathered is it is just 60-70K a year doing some weird line of work that doesn't give you much long-term leverage. They also seem to spend stupid amounts of money on cars + clothes (relative to their income)

While I agree the quality of girls are better, it seems like you either run your own biz or are already liquid and don't worry about it so girls are higher on the priority list.

I'd rather be in a spot that is higher on the money accumulation side. If money didn't matter any more I'd be ex-pat already (all these comments are relative of course).

So overall, if you're looking to move up in biz terms it makes more sense to be in NYC, if you're already cash rich then It doesn't matter what city you are in. This sounds to be the base of the discrepancy.

I'd even live in a city in Texas - Austin, get a oil based job than live in Miami at this point, unless there was some sort of lucrative job market in Miami that I was unaware of. There is certainly a reason why housing prices are bust down there in Florida... Majority is broke.

Just curious WC, since a lot of your posts bring up the expat thing as a major goal for you...where are you considering relocating to?

I try to go to 2-3 new countries a year. So the end answer is in the air.

So far, my experience is pointing to a few cities in Mexico and a few cities in South America.

My point is why would anyone put in top tier money and cash into a bad investment (American girls) when you can keep it, minimize all expenses on bad assets and invest for the future.

Sure you can tell my general view is that cash is a freedom buying asset rather than a lifestyle upgrading asset. But that's a separate post.

To remain on topic basically, NYC is a god damn beast of a place to get started and it's hard to even fathom wasting time in America if you can live on yield, run back burner game in a easy city and spend your time doing whatever you feel like. That just seems nuts to me, which is why I was shocked to see Miami on that list since the jobs there seem to be bad.

Don't get me wrong tax haven is great and there are always outliers, but a smart man plays the numbers. If the average person in NYC makes $100K or average in LA is $80K... I'm going to NYC.

The funny thing is, NYC is still the easiest place in the country in my opinion to pull. There are just way too many targets and venues ... Daily.

All and all the final point is basically this (if you are not rich, most are not) where are you going to be best positioned for long term success in the "game" of life.. And you end up with NYC.

[kenny_powers]

(01-04-2013 04:45 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

Yea I got my job in DC and it offered work from home from anywhere in the US, so living in Sobe with my DC salary and govt benefits, im a lucky man. It took me 5 yrs of kicking ass at my job tho so it wasnt a handout.

I guess this would be ideal. Check which jobs offer teleworking.

Dont even bother asking what agency I work for, as I wont publically divulge.

Well played Sir. That's how I got to Miami. I took a nice promotion and transferred in with my company from CA. Looks like you took my place down there. Its freaking cold up here in DC!

[thegmanifesto]

(01-04-2013 04:35 PM)kenny_powers Wrote:  

There are some people making serious scratch in Dade but a lot of it is dirty. It is the US capital for insurance fraud, mortgage fraud, medicare fraud etc....

A lot of those local miami guys age 25-30 make 60K a year and live with their parents. They lease a 3 series and buy some hugo boss shirts but thats the depth of their finances.

Yeah, I should have added that.

Most, shall we call "shady" biz originates in South Florida, California and Nevada. I am surprised whenever it is not in one of those three.

----

This all being said, you would never know the economy is bad.

7 nights per week, places are full with people drinking $15-20 cocktails.

Restaurants are packed. People are out shopping. People are partying every night.

Even in Southern California, places are dead early in the week and restaurants are half full.

(01-04-2013 04:49 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

My point is why would anyone put in top tier money and cash into a bad investment (American girls) when you can keep it, minimize all expenses on bad assets and invest for the future.

That is the thing, many would argue that girls in Miami are top tier.

You can swoop your way around the world and not leave Brickell/South Beach.

Example to illustrate my point: You can travel around the world to a FSU, freezing, industrial sh*thole, or walk to the beach and talk to a model from that country while she is topless.

Which would you choose?

Example to illustrate my point: You can go do a landlocked South American sprawling, dangerous city or slide up to a Latina from that city at the bar in Brickell.

Which would you choose?

When you put it in that respect, a $20 cocktail seems like a steal.

Trust me, if you go up to girls you are attracted to, you will rarely find yourself talking with an "American" girl.

[kenny_powers]

(01-04-2013 04:52 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(01-04-2013 04:35 PM)kenny_powers Wrote:  

There are some people making serious scratch in Dade but a lot of it is dirty. It is the US capital for insurance fraud, mortgage fraud, medicare fraud etc....

A lot of those local miami guys age 25-30 make 60K a year and live with their parents. They lease a 3 series and buy some hugo boss shirts but thats the depth of their finances.

Yeah, I should have added that.

Most, shall we call "shady" biz originates in South Florida, California and Nevada. I am surprised whenever it is not in one of those three.

----

This all being said, you would never know the economy is bad.

7 nights per week, places are full with people drinking $15-20 cocktails.

Restaurants are packed. People are out shopping. People are partying every night.

Even in Southern California, places are dead early in the week and restaurants are half full.

Miami, especially South Beach is a global destination for fun. Men and women from all over the planet come to that little stretch of land, in the winter to party and play. Damn, I miss it. I'm not an international playboy - yet! But South Beach is the most fun place I have ever been too. You can walk around LIncoln Road in the DAYTIME in February and see the most beautiful girl you have ever seen in your life. 10 seconds later you will see a girl that tops her! I made my way around the world down there. Russian, Thai, Israeli, Venezuelan, Colombian, Dominican, Lebanese, Equador, Guatemala, Korean, American, Canadian, etc...

[Menace]

(01-04-2013 04:59 PM)kenny_powers Wrote:  

Miami, especially South Beach is a global destination for fun. Men and women from all over the planet come to that little stretch of land, in the winter to party and play. Damn, I miss it. I'm not an international playboy - yet! But South Beach is the most fun place I have ever been too.

This is really true. When I was loitering around South Beach, I was amazed at how many tourists there were all over the place. I'm not sure why I never really thought of it as a top tourist destination (it doesn't really have any iconic American monuments/buildings, and there are plenty of beaches all over the place), but it certainly is.

If your game is on point in the US, NYC/Miami is a great seasonal combo to be in.

I tried to tell a buddy of mine who works at a gov't agency that allows work from home to move to Miami, but unfortunately he's moving in with his gf...what to do. And this is a guy who does fairly well in DC.

[WestCoast]

@G

I see your point and still have the same conclusion. Lets assume Miami in fact is #1 hottest girls in the world. Lets also assume you can get them with work.

The problem is the cost to maintain is just not worth the stress. Why not just put in more work (since you no longer have to work) and just shoot for the top end in another city. Now if you have enough cash to not have to work and don't even care about costs well then sure no brainer. Have a harder time seeing how many people can pull in say $20K monthly post tax with no work.

Perhaps my conclusion is incorrect.

If you live in a large SA city own your own place and run expenses off yield there is no reason to run a high cost lifestyle in the states anymore. The $20 cocktail places you mention attract high cost girls (in general) so you'd have to be stacked to be fine with that. Which is not a problem if you are stacked. For most, even successful people, it's tough to get $30K a month net income period (again just looking at numbers).

[thegmanifesto]

(01-04-2013 05:06 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

The problem is the cost to maintain is just not worth the stress. Why not just put in more work (since you no longer have to work) and just shoot for the top end in another city.

I guess that is the "crux" of my problem.

Which city would that be?

If you can tell me a place that has all the advantages of Miami and $3 cocktails, trust me, I am there.

(For the record, I do have to work).

[WestCoast]

I believe the crux of the problem is really this.

"What is the least amount of cash flow you need to pull girls you are happy with in another country assuming you have 100% of the time to do as much game as you'd like?"

That's really what I'm alluding to. If you're a deca millionaire, shit Miami is a no brainer. Running stats? Chances are that people don't get there (no worries I'm still going to try to get that rich), just posing the true root of the question.

At the end of the day, IMHO there are attractive girls in practically every city in whatever country you choose so why blow cash when you can dream bigger.

If you really think about it, even Argentina(known to be hard) would be a better choice because you can just spend all your time picking up girls and live the low cost life? It's not like you'll go 0/10000000 in any city, so again the value in Miami seems tough to justify. If your job is mobile and you are forced to stay in the USA then no problem, or if you have a biz in Miami great as well.


Comes down to this:
If you have to work you're probably not mega stacked so may as well make more money. (NYC)

If you're mega stacked why bother with the USA your time should be more valuable.(deca millionaires excluded)

I believe that is where we disagree for some reason, can't seem to triangulate why.

[rationalize_this]

(01-04-2013 04:52 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(01-04-2013 04:35 PM)kenny_powers Wrote:  

There are some people making serious scratch in Dade but a lot of it is dirty. It is the US capital for insurance fraud, mortgage fraud, medicare fraud etc....

A lot of those local miami guys age 25-30 make 60K a year and live with their parents. They lease a 3 series and buy some hugo boss shirts but thats the depth of their finances.

Yeah, I should have added that.

Most, shall we call "shady" biz originates in South Florida, California and Nevada. I am surprised whenever it is not in one of those three.

----

This all being said, you would never know the economy is bad.

7 nights per week, places are full with people drinking $15-20 cocktails.

Restaurants are packed. People are out shopping. People are partying every night.

Even in Southern California, places are dead early in the week and restaurants are half full.

(01-04-2013 04:49 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

My point is why would anyone put in top tier money and cash into a bad investment (American girls) when you can keep it, minimize all expenses on bad assets and invest for the future.

That is the thing, many would argue that girls in Miami are top tier.

You can swoop your way around the world and not leave Brickell/South Beach.

Example to illustrate my point: You can travel around the world to a FSU, freezing, industrial sh*thole, or walk to the beach and talk to a model from that country while she is topless.

Which would you choose?

Example to illustrate my point: You can go do a landlocked South American sprawling, dangerous city or slide up to a Latina from that city at the bar in Brickell.

Which would you choose?

When you put it in that respect, a $20 cocktail seems like a steal.

Trust me, if you go up to girls you are attracted to, you will rarely find yourself talking with an "American" girl.

Precisely why I love living here.

Its easy to avoid the typical American girls when you can have dates with a different nationality any given day of the week.

Very flew places in the world can you have this kind of access all in one place.

Not only that, if you dress sharp and an inkling of game, its not even that hard.

Hell I went out solo last night and made out with a Dominican, Peruvian, and an Asian chick from San Diego. All of them were at least 7s, and two had fake tits. (Mind you this was a Thursday not even on the beach)

It really does not get better than winter in Miami. For all you players out there complaining about $20 cocktails, just flask it and post up with a cig.

You shouldn't be dropping cash on girls drinks unless their shots and you're warming them up for the bounce back to your spot with a view and champagne.

[WestCoast]

@ rationalize

Completely agree on girls quality, if we're talking about quality only it's a no brainer. Even vegas would win out, or cabo on spring break. Perhaps my definition of player life is different.

My definition is money keeps going up, girls keep going up in a vicious cycle of upward momentum.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-04-2013 05:21 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

If you really think about it, even Argentina(known to be hard) would be a better choice because you can just spend all your time picking up girls and live the low cost life? It's not like you'll go 0/10000000 in any city, so again the value in Miami seems tough to justify. If your job is mobile and you are forced to stay in the USA then no problem, or if you have a biz in Miami great as well.

See, I may get some haters on here, but to me, Miami destroys even Buenos Aires.

Buenos Aires has fly girls no doubt, but they are wearing flat shoes and jeans most of the time.

Girls in Miami are in heels and dresses. Or bikinis. Or topless.

Plus, there are tons of fly Argentinian girls in Miami. Try to find a fly Cubana or Hungarian girl in Buenos. Good luck.

And girls in Buenos are way more difficult.

And here is the kicker: Argentinian girls are way easier in Miami than in Buenos. At least that has been my experience.

Another example to illustrate my point: I was recently in a club pretty faded kissing a fly Venezulan girl against the bar. She specifically told me she would have never been doing what we were doing if we were in Maracaibo, because all her friends would have been around.

I still dig Buenos. Great food. Fun nightlife. etc.

But to me, Miami tops it.

Again, trust me, if I could find a place that has the advantages of Miami with $3 cocktails, I would be typing from there.

(01-04-2013 05:56 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

Very flew places in the world can you have this kind of access all in one place.

Yeah, I don't know where else.

Soho? But add a beach to that equation and the list gets thin quick.

Add a place that is cheap and the list might be non-existent.

I would love to be proved wrong though.

[WestCoast]

Fair enough, sounds like a heavier lean on girls than I would go for.

[Menace]

(01-04-2013 05:56 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

Not only that, if you dress sharp and an inkling of game, its not even that hard.

Is this really true? I mean you seem to have everything on point and know what you're doing. I have always been under the impression that Miami requires expert level game...or is that only for 8's and above?

[rationalize_this]

(01-04-2013 08:45 PM)Menace Wrote:  

(01-04-2013 05:56 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

Not only that, if you dress sharp and an inkling of game, its not even that hard.

Is this really true? I mean you seem to have everything on point and know what you're doing. I have always been under the impression that Miami requires expert level game...or is that only for 8's and above?

Honestly, maybe it comes easier to me because I've been doing this awhile, and pretty much have a system. Here's the cliff notes:

1) Meet girl, situational opener. Find commonality, escalate to touching. Drop bait. (point to building I live or something)
2) Venue bounce to bar/lounge I have on lock (pass line with handshake, bartender greets me by name- sometimes drinks before I ask)
3) 2 shots, 2 mixed drinks to chase. Find quieter spot. Better conversation, escalate further.
4) Go for a walk conveniently to my place. Champagne on balcony overlooking view.
5) Bang.

I do this almost everytime. On dates, on SNLs, everytime. If it doesn't go as planned, I number close and eject. Rinse and Repeat on new girl. Sometimes it does take a lot out of me so when I get to step 3 and it doesn't work, I usually need a pick me up to keep going, or I go home. Materializing actual connections out of thin air with these girls is tiring to say the least, starting from 1 again is tougher so I'll usually get lazier as the night goes on and go more direct.

If you want to pick off the 6s and 7s pretty much all you have to do is be smooth, and the antithesis of the typical aggressive ass-grabbing latin guy they are used to.

For the 8s and 9s which I've been focusing on exclusively(normal girls just don't do it for me anymore), you need the whole package. You don't need to be loaded, or drive a foreign car, but you do need the rest. (Ambition, nice clothes, body, haircut, etc. etc.) The times I've pulled these types hard to explain. I met them at the right time, I was in the zone. The past 9s I've pulled weren't SNLs though. Date 2 and 3 bangs.

I'm not saying SNLs with 9s in Miami isn't possible, but you definitely need a bit of luck, and a lot of social value. Mix in some rock solid logistics and the probability is even higher. Most that I have met know the value of the pussy and hold it out for longer. (1-3 dates). If that's really that long!

[WestCoast]

I'm hitting this thread hard which should be a dangerously obvious reason to a smart reader.

That style is basically on point.

If I look at the #'s you're dropping ~$100 per new pull. 4 drinks, unless you have a full on hook up @ the place you have on lockdown, in that case wash.

Contrast to NYC game. Show up, dance, 2 shots, go home (shoot roughly 1/3) and it looks relatively comparable?

I'll call rent difference a wash due to job options.

Guess two last questions, how long did it take to lock down your spots? Usually it takes 3-4 visits but if I am understanding Miami it's more about pre-loaded girls versus tipping heavy and slipping the line and back door on recognition.

Last one is floor to running how long did you take to lock down the joint? In NYC you can pretty much rip the city up in 2 days and get everything going, is Miami similar to SA where you invest heavy and have to wait out...

Shit may as well relabel this thread "New York or Florida - The last two US choices left".

[rationalize_this]

(01-04-2013 09:33 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

I'm hitting this thread hard which should be a dangerously obvious reason to a smart reader.

That style is basically on point.

If I look at the #'s you're dropping ~$100 per new pull. 4 drinks, unless you have a full on hook up @ the place you have on lockdown, in that case wash.

Contrast to NYC game. Show up, dance, 2 shots, go home (shoot roughly 1/3) and it looks relatively comparable?

I'll call rent difference a wash due to job options.

Guess two last questions, how long did it take to lock down your spots? Usually it takes 3-4 visits but if I am understanding Miami it's more about pre-loaded girls versus tipping heavy and slipping the line and back door on recognition.

Last one is floor to running how long did you take to lock down the joint? In NYC you can pretty much rip the city up in 2 days and get everything going, is Miami similar to SA where you invest heavy and have to wait out...

Shit may as well relabel this thread "New York or Florida - The last two US choices left".

Two shots of Aguardiente 20, 2 coronas 20. 50 with tip? I guess its steep for some out there.

My NYC game is never really bar game anyways. I daygame, bring girls to clubs my promoter hooks me up that night, and really don't drop anything except for coatcheck money.

As far as locking down spots, I don't know. I knew a waitress at one right out the bat, another the bouncer has seen me bring in countless fine chicas so he loves me and we shoot the shit all the time. Basically if you want to lock down places just go on slow nights and chill out. Get to know everyone.

Rent? I used to live in South Miami and didn't run nearly as well. I've dropped 200 on hotel rooms when I swooped in Brickell and simply couldn't take it anymore.

What do you mean by "preloaded girls?"

[WestCoast]

Pre loaded meaning pretty much what you described, you get a few on lock, then bring them through as "candy" for the spot you want to have. They naturally like any dude who constantly brings in girls.

Another style, is to find a lounge/restaurant type place come in heavy solo "from out of town" get in with the workers to the point that they want to hang or with you and just go from there.

Hopefully somewhat easier to understand from the above.

So you lived in south beach and it was bank? Or are you saying hotels killed you? Didn't really get that part.

My experience there was most people drive for stupid amounts of time, never lived there for a long enough period to make an official call on it since I was only in town visiting girls... NYC on the other hand is easy pickings from day 1.

Starting to realize this is another tough convo bc I would have to shack up there for a few months... Oh well.

[rationalize_this]

No not candy. Girls I just met, girls I was banging I took for dinner/drinks. Every type of girl. But they were hot.

I guess the best way to describe what I'm talking about is by example. I'll break down last night.

My brother had a date with a cute Peruvian so I did my brotherly duty and bounced from the appt for a drink solo. I trolled around for a bit checking out the scene. Did a lap, opened one chick who I wasn't really feeling on my loop back around Brickell. I stop by one of the places I have on lock and have a cig with the bouncer talking about how good tomorrow night would be. I stop by another spot and say hi to my favorite bartender (she's fire still working on this one).

As I'm walking out I spot a group of 4 girls. 3/4 were 7-8 range. I open, turns out their from DR on vacation. I say I'm grabbing a drink at a bar footsteps away to see a friend (lie) and they should join. We walk in together and I give the hostess a kiss on the cheek ( I hate this place because its mostly american girls but whatev, its dead on thursdays). I walk in and suddenly some girls calling my name. "Rationalize Rationalize!" Its this girl I went to law school with. 8.5 brunette with great body. Never hit it but I did hit 3 of her friends so kind of out of the water there... Anyways, banter, great social value. I pull her friends number and make a pool date for the next day. (they were with me today rooftop)

Back to the Dominican girls, I tell them lets go dancing. There's a better spot across the way that's hopping. We walk in, tell the bouncer's on xxx's list. They walk in. Dude asks me to pay cover I say "sureeee" and walk in, give nicole (hostess) kiss on the cheek, shoot the shit w/ her for a bit and go inside. By this time girls already settled in with a table and have their drinks.

One is feeling me the most and I sneak in some Spanish and how she should teach me bachata and I'll teach her salsa. She lights up, I isolate from her friends, and full out dance/grind sesh on the dance floor. She's loving it. I say I need a break and a cig. (shout out G) and go outside. She joins, I get the makeout, then she pleads her friends left, hamster overdrive, and begs for my number. All 4 are meeting me out in an hour tonight.

She leaves, I spot 3 hot hot asians dancing. I open the lesser one, banter, and find out where the hot one is from. I tell her I bet I can guess where she's from and she buys it for a bit then realizes I cheated. Whatever. I challenge her Miami dance style vs. LA. She's full on breaking it down on me this girl has fake tits, great ass, hot asian. Actually knew my boy from San Diego back in the day. Small world. Anyways, same drill. Makeout, hamster overdrive, beg for number. Leaves.

I go home and wake up early for the pool and gym. Rinse Repeat.

[WestIndianArchie]

If you had the coin, would you build a hotel or club in SoBe?

WIA

[DVY]

Moral of the stories- I need to visit Sobe and NYC. =)

[jariel]

(01-04-2013 09:47 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

Rent? I used to live in South Miami and didn't run nearly as well. I've dropped 200 on hotel rooms when I swooped in Brickell and simply couldn't take it anymore.

A better option would have been any of the nice notels -- Starlite, Starlite West, Jamaica Hotel, etc. -- on 8th St., especially as a dude living in South Miami.

After I ended up having to file a restraining order against a chick, I don't bring girls home anymore, so I hit up 8th, and for $25, you get a nice room with a jacuzzi for 2 hours -- $5 per hour after that.

There are plenty of dimes in Brickell and South Beach. Some of them are real dimes and some of them are pennies dressed as dimes and they come out for the night from places like Hoeleah, you need to be able to differentiate between the two. Anywhere else in Miami, different beast. You're talking average looking, sunglasses fine latinas, headshot hotties with fat bodies, in other words, non-dimes, and on both sides, most of the chicks have young kids, ex-husbands, ex-boyfriends, and a whole hell of a lot of other baggage that most players just don't want to deal with.

Let's slow down on Miami. It appears to me we have a few dudes here who have reached the upper levels of game, talking about how good shit is for them in a city that requires high level game. I don't want to give anyone the impression they should pack their bags tomorrow.

If you don't have tight game for Miami, you'll be doing a lot of "sightseeing".

[kenny_powers]

(01-04-2013 09:33 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

I'm hitting this thread hard which should be a dangerously obvious reason to a smart reader.

That style is basically on point.

If I look at the #'s you're dropping ~$100 per new pull. 4 drinks, unless you have a full on hook up @ the place you have on lockdown, in that case wash.

Contrast to NYC game. Show up, dance, 2 shots, go home (shoot roughly 1/3) and it looks relatively comparable?

I'll call rent difference a wash due to job options.

Guess two last questions, how long did it take to lock down your spots? Usually it takes 3-4 visits but if I am understanding Miami it's more about pre-loaded girls versus tipping heavy and slipping the line and back door on recognition.

Last one is floor to running how long did you take to lock down the joint? In NYC you can pretty much rip the city up in 2 days and get everything going, is Miami similar to SA where you invest heavy and have to wait out...

Shit may as well relabel this thread "New York or Florida - The last two US choices left".

Miami, I love it in the winter. Florida in the summer sucks. I spent many years there. For me, Sobe is a 3 day weekend, like Vegas. I am now in DC for 6 months, no complaints. Manhattan is my next stop and I can't wait to get there. Wheels are in motion.

I choose New York.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-04-2013 09:47 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

Two shots of Aguardiente 20, 2 coronas 20. 50 with tip? I guess its steep for some out there.

That is all you will drink on a night out?

(01-05-2013 01:45 AM)jariel Wrote:  

Let's slow down on Miami. It appears to me we have a few dudes here who have reached the upper levels of game, talking about how good shit is for them in a city that requires high level game. I don't want to give anyone the impression they should pack their bags tomorrow.

If you don't have tight game for Miami, you'll be doing a lot of "sightseeing".

I think Rationalize and I have both constantly put disclaimers in about Miami, haven't we?

But yeah, this is not the place for the "average guy, with average Game".