[WomenLuvDeez]

(10-30-2018 12:13 PM)corsega Wrote:  

Consider this: the average male on Tinder gets one match per thousand swipes. This was from a study done a couple years ago.

Holy hell that can't be true.. I get on average 50-150 matchs in the states per day(I have the paid for edition so I get unlimited swipes but I still selectively swipe because too many whales on it compared to bumble where I live), but in South America I get maybe 200+ per day with a high conversion rates of dates/fucks (more dates/fucks in S.A. than the states though) but according to photo feeler I am top 20% in looks and have professional photos with my IG attached showing a few T.V. shows I have been in for some value.

But back to the topic 1 match per 1 thousand? Can you link that study? I cannot believe that to be true.

[dtpilgrim]

(11-01-2018 10:14 AM)mellowsedge Wrote:  

lets say 10000 random swipes
500 matches
50 I will send a feeler text (450 are fugly - either fat or ugly - I live in the UK what do you expect!)
10 will converse with me
5 will date
3 will actually go on a date, 2 will flake

The 3 dates were either too fat, face not pretty enough or something. ROI very poor.

I'm focussing on night game. Besides, I got banned from Tinder.

Those are actually pretty good rates, given that you actually only had 50 elligible matches as opposed to 500. A 1/5 response rate is not bad, and a 1/3 conversation rate to date is actually pretty good. I've rarely had girls flake though, that might be less of a cultural thing here.

***

But anyways I'm curious about you guy's text game. The ratio's will always be around a 1/3 response rate and a 1/5 conversation to date rate, but I'm wondering what you guys are actually saying to the girls in text, or how many responses you tend to exchange and over what time period?

Being an OK-looking guy, like a 6.5/7 I get the sense I'm being put into a weird conversational purgatory where girls expect me to have a conversation with them over the course of a week+, and also to never have a single awkward thing said during the entire time. For the last 2 years I've found it increasingly harder to strike the perfect balance in conversation and I feel like I'm acting more and more beta because whenever I make too much of a forward proposal I will get ghosted rather than rewarded for making a bold move.

It's really confusing to me and I'm wondering if guys are in the same pattern. I've literally had over 20+ times, when I got a girl to actually respond to a text and have a conversation, (so that's like 1/4 out of a pool of 80 matches), where it all follows a similar pattern.

1. Tried and tested evocative opener > Get response
2. Bit of boring questions mixed with some tried and tested lines > Get interest
3. Make a quick proposal to meet > Get immediate radio silence or a rebuff
4. Sometimes I'll ask what's up (pointless obviously) and it's like > "I first want to have a FUN conversation with someone blabla / I don't know you yet"

I'm at a loss nowadays what the fuck is supposed to qualify as a fun conversation? And why the radio silence when proposing a meet up while that's what the app is designed for in the first place.

I can fully accept and understand that because of my looks-based value I'm classed in a different category than Chad. But I just don't get what kind of category this is supposed to be and how I should deal with it.

[WomenLuvDeez]

(11-01-2018 11:22 AM)dtpilgrim Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 10:14 AM)mellowsedge Wrote:  

lets say 10000 random swipes
500 matches
50 I will send a feeler text (450 are fugly - either fat or ugly - I live in the UK what do you expect!)
10 will converse with me
5 will date
3 will actually go on a date, 2 will flake

The 3 dates were either too fat, face not pretty enough or something. ROI very poor.

I'm focussing on night game. Besides, I got banned from Tinder.

Those are actually pretty good rates, given that you actually only had 50 elligible matches as opposed to 500. A 1/5 response rate is not bad, and a 1/3 conversation rate to date is actually pretty good. I've rarely had girls flake though, that might be less of a cultural thing here.

***

But anyways I'm curious about you guy's text game. The ratio's will always be around a 1/3 response rate and a 1/5 conversation to date rate, but I'm wondering what you guys are actually saying to the girls in text, or how many responses you tend to exchange and over what time period?

Being an OK-looking guy, like a 6.5/7 I get the sense I'm being put into a weird conversational purgatory where girls expect me to have a conversation with them over the course of a week+, and also to never have a single awkward thing said during the entire time. For the last 2 years I've found it increasingly harder to strike the perfect balance in conversation and I feel like I'm acting more and more beta because whenever I make too much of a forward proposal I will get ghosted rather than rewarded for making a bold move.

It's really confusing to me and I'm wondering if guys are in the same pattern. I've literally had over 20+ times, when I got a girl to actually respond to a text and have a conversation, (so that's like 1/4 out of a pool of 80 matches), where it all follows a similar pattern.

1. Tried and tested evocative opener > Get response
2. Bit of boring questions mixed with some tried and tested lines > Get interest
3. Make a quick proposal to meet > Get immediate radio silence or a rebuff
4. Sometimes I'll ask what's up (pointless obviously) and it's like > "I first want to have a FUN conversation with someone blabla / I don't know you yet"

I'm at a loss nowadays what the fuck is supposed to qualify as a fun conversation? And why the radio silence when proposing a meet up while that's what the app is designed for in the first place.

I can fully accept and understand that because of my looks-based value I'm classed in a different category than Chad. But I just don't get what kind of category this is supposed to be and how I should deal with it.

If you already have working lines that get the number, then once you have that you need to set up something fast before the next chad does as pretty much any girl that's 6/10+ swipes right and gets a automatic match for the most part. Lately I just say, "now that we've matched does that mean were official?" with the typical response being a highly positive one and 90% of the messages I start out with that I get the number within 3-4 more messages(It works for me, so I'd give it a try. If it doesn't work then go back to your material).

If a girl says she wants to get to know you more, all I can contribute to that is: https://www.rooshv.com/the-talking-ratio as I rarely get that issue.

[Sender]

(11-01-2018 10:14 AM)mellowsedge Wrote:  

lets say 10000 random swipes
500 matches
50 I will send a feeler text (450 are fugly - either fat or ugly - I live in the UK what do you expect!)
10 will converse with me
5 will date
3 will actually go on a date, 2 will flake.

The 3 dates were either too fat, face not pretty enough or something. ROI very poor.

I'm focussing on night game. Besides, I got banned from Tinder.

Probably a wise move to convert to night game. I'm still learning that the hard way, I think.

What did you get banned for?

[jacknap]

I've noticed they chilled a bit on the banning. The realized that disposing of male clientele who basically fund their whole venture are not an unlimited resource lol. Still shows how little they give a fuck about guys - though that's hardly surprising in this male hating world.

[JimBobsCooters]

(11-01-2018 09:48 AM)redbeard Wrote:  

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I'm having less success on Tinder than ever, and I have to think it's due to Instagram. Even slightly above average girls are racking up thousands of followers on Instagram, and they don't know how to handle all the male attention. I know this to be true because I've had girls follow me and still ignore my DM's, not even reading them. If they don't open my messages, they must have hundreds more jamming up their phones.

Maybe it's my game, maybe not. Either way I'm emphasizing IRL game more than ever now.

Do you refresh your age to keep it low? I can only imagine that if someone has aged say 3 years since the start of tinder that you've aged out of an awful lot of girls ranges. How many 22 year old girls have their ages set above 25 in the west?

Would love to know the average age search range for girls, I genuinely wonder if I even show on most of the girls that I've swiped on.

[griffinmill]

^^ I've matched with girls 10 years younger than me. But girls who like older men are in the minority. I'd imagine young girls have their age range no higher than 5 or 6 years above their own.

[redbeard]

(11-01-2018 03:30 PM)JimBobsCooters Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 09:48 AM)redbeard Wrote:  

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I'm having less success on Tinder than ever, and I have to think it's due to Instagram. Even slightly above average girls are racking up thousands of followers on Instagram, and they don't know how to handle all the male attention. I know this to be true because I've had girls follow me and still ignore my DM's, not even reading them. If they don't open my messages, they must have hundreds more jamming up their phones.

Maybe it's my game, maybe not. Either way I'm emphasizing IRL game more than ever now.

Do you refresh your age to keep it low? I can only imagine that if someone has aged say 3 years since the start of tinder that you've aged out of an awful lot of girls ranges. How many 22 year old girls have their ages set above 25 in the west?

Would love to know the average age search range for girls, I genuinely wonder if I even show on most of the girls that I've swiped on.

I'm 25....I did not think I'd be considered out of their age range, yet here we are. I'll try this in a bit, but the problem is that I look more like 28-29.

[pancakemouse]

(11-01-2018 09:48 AM)redbeard Wrote:  

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I'm having less success on Tinder than ever, and I have to think it's due to Instagram. Even slightly above average girls are racking up thousands of followers on Instagram, and they don't know how to handle all the male attention. I know this to be true because I've had girls follow me and still ignore my DM's, not even reading them. If they don't open my messages, they must have hundreds more jamming up their phones.

Maybe it's my game, maybe not. Either way I'm emphasizing IRL game more than ever now.

It's not due to Instagram. It's due to increasing male competition on Tinder itself.

See above.

(11-01-2018 10:56 AM)WomenLuvDeez Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 12:13 PM)corsega Wrote:  

Consider this: the average male on Tinder gets one match per thousand swipes. This was from a study done a couple years ago.

Holy hell that can't be true.. I get on average 50-150 matchs in the states per day(I have the paid for edition so I get unlimited swipes but I still selectively swipe because too many whales on it compared to bumble where I live), but in South America I get maybe 200+ per day with a high conversion rates of dates/fucks (more dates/fucks in S.A. than the states though) but according to photo feeler I am top 20% in looks and have professional photos with my IG attached showing a few T.V. shows I have been in for some value.

But back to the topic 1 match per 1 thousand? Can you link that study? I cannot believe that to be true.

I have used professional photos of top male models and gotten less matches than that a day.

So forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical...

Regardless, if you truly are getting 50-150 matches per day, then you are objectively a 9/10 male. Maybe even higher. With those numbers, you are probably top 1% of profiles in your city.

Here is the study:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1607.01952.pdf

(11-01-2018 11:22 AM)dtpilgrim Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 10:14 AM)mellowsedge Wrote:  

lets say 10000 random swipes
500 matches
50 I will send a feeler text (450 are fugly - either fat or ugly - I live in the UK what do you expect!)
10 will converse with me
5 will date
3 will actually go on a date, 2 will flake

The 3 dates were either too fat, face not pretty enough or something. ROI very poor.

I'm focussing on night game. Besides, I got banned from Tinder.

Those are actually pretty good rates, given that you actually only had 50 elligible matches as opposed to 500. A 1/5 response rate is not bad, and a 1/3 conversation rate to date is actually pretty good. I've rarely had girls flake though, that might be less of a cultural thing here.

The Netherlands and Germany probably have the lowest flake rates in the world. Definitely a cultural thing. I think I've told you to post your messages here for analysis - I'll repeat - this is the ONLY way to know if you are saying something that is turning these girls off.

(11-01-2018 03:30 PM)JimBobsCooters Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 09:48 AM)redbeard Wrote:  

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I'm having less success on Tinder than ever, and I have to think it's due to Instagram. Even slightly above average girls are racking up thousands of followers on Instagram, and they don't know how to handle all the male attention. I know this to be true because I've had girls follow me and still ignore my DM's, not even reading them. If they don't open my messages, they must have hundreds more jamming up their phones.

Maybe it's my game, maybe not. Either way I'm emphasizing IRL game more than ever now.

Do you refresh your age to keep it low? I can only imagine that if someone has aged say 3 years since the start of tinder that you've aged out of an awful lot of girls ranges. How many 22 year old girls have their ages set above 25 in the west?

Would love to know the average age search range for girls, I genuinely wonder if I even show on most of the girls that I've swiped on.

Age ranges don't (really) matter. They only determine who shows up in your random queue. If you like a girl and you're not in her age range, you still show up in her like queue.

[Humpty Pump n Dumpty]

Tinder will die in the next few years. It’s become expensive and useless. I’ve had more luck direct messaging girls on IG.

[WomenLuvDeez]

(11-01-2018 04:03 PM)corsega Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 09:48 AM)redbeard Wrote:  

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I'm having less success on Tinder than ever, and I have to think it's due to Instagram. Even slightly above average girls are racking up thousands of followers on Instagram, and they don't know how to handle all the male attention. I know this to be true because I've had girls follow me and still ignore my DM's, not even reading them. If they don't open my messages, they must have hundreds more jamming up their phones.

Maybe it's my game, maybe not. Either way I'm emphasizing IRL game more than ever now.

It's not due to Instagram. It's due to increasing male competition on Tinder itself.

See above.

(11-01-2018 10:56 AM)WomenLuvDeez Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 12:13 PM)corsega Wrote:  

Consider this: the average male on Tinder gets one match per thousand swipes. This was from a study done a couple years ago.

Holy hell that can't be true.. I get on average 50-150 matchs in the states per day(I have the paid for edition so I get unlimited swipes but I still selectively swipe because too many whales on it compared to bumble where I live), but in South America I get maybe 200+ per day with a high conversion rates of dates/fucks (more dates/fucks in S.A. than the states though) but according to photo feeler I am top 20% in looks and have professional photos with my IG attached showing a few T.V. shows I have been in for some value.

But back to the topic 1 match per 1 thousand? Can you link that study? I cannot believe that to be true.

I have used professional photos of top male models and gotten less matches than that a day.

So forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical...

Regardless, if you truly are getting 50-150 matches per day, then you are objectively a 9/10 male. Maybe even higher. With those numbers, you are probably top 1% of profiles in your city.

Here is the study:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1607.01952.pdf

Damn I feel bad for the lower 80% guys then that are barely getting ANY match's. I have done some modeling/acting but I don't consider myself a 9/10 but if you give me a PM I'll send you my IG & a pic of my tindr where you can see the amount of matchs. Only problem I have with some of them are turning them from numbers to actual dates sometimes, but even then I still have maybe 7-9 I am texting now which I have a few things lined up for next few weeks.

[Redbaron]

Been using tinder to pipeline Taiwan before I get there.

Some of my matches look innocent as hell, others like a horny Lucy Liu, all look like they need Redbaron in their lives.

[RougeNoir]

Every time I'm about to delete the app, I get a decent bang from it. It's best purpose is to sample your look among the local women out of state/country and visit where you have the best reception.

[pancakemouse]

(11-01-2018 07:09 PM)WomenLuvDeez Wrote:  

Damn I feel bad for the lower 80% guys then that are barely getting ANY match's. I have done some modeling/acting but I don't consider myself a 9/10 but if you give me a PM I'll send you my IG & a pic of my tindr where you can see the amount of matchs. Only problem I have with some of them are turning them from numbers to actual dates sometimes, but even then I still have maybe 7-9 I am texting now which I have a few things lined up for next few weeks.

Update: WomenLuvDeez and I have been testing and I can confirm he's a very attractive guy. He fits the "tall teddy bear Chad" phenotype.

Also, he's getting 50-150 matches because he wasn't being selective about swipes, so this puts his numbers in good perspective.

He sent me some of his Tinder messaging and I've been able to give him some tips on how to appear less gamey/nice guy.

If you're reading this, getting matches, and having trouble getting girls out on dates, it's probably your text game. Happy to look over any texts if guys want to PM me.

[dtpilgrim]

(11-01-2018 04:03 PM)corsega Wrote:  

The Netherlands and Germany probably have the lowest flake rates in the world. Definitely a cultural thing. I think I've told you to post your messages here for analysis - I'll repeat - this is the ONLY way to know if you are saying something that is turning these girls off.

Thanks for the offer. I had to set up a new MM profile, get 100 matches and make my profile international so I could text in English first, so that took a while. I can't share my other texts as they're not in English so it just wouldn't work.

Here's a sample of a decent conversation I'm having.



https://imgur.com/a/Ncwvo5Q

[No More Mr. Soy Boy]

(11-05-2018 03:16 PM)dtpilgrim Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 04:03 PM)corsega Wrote:  

The Netherlands and Germany probably have the lowest flake rates in the world. Definitely a cultural thing. I think I've told you to post your messages here for analysis - I'll repeat - this is the ONLY way to know if you are saying something that is turning these girls off.

Thanks for the offer. I had to set up a new MM profile, get 100 matches and make my profile international so I could text in English first, so that took a while. I can't share my other texts as they're not in English so it just wouldn't work.

Here's a sample of a decent conversation I'm having.



https://imgur.com/a/Ncwvo5Q

Do you really believe she is beautiful?

[dtpilgrim]

(11-05-2018 04:18 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

(11-05-2018 03:16 PM)dtpilgrim Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 04:03 PM)corsega Wrote:  

The Netherlands and Germany probably have the lowest flake rates in the world. Definitely a cultural thing. I think I've told you to post your messages here for analysis - I'll repeat - this is the ONLY way to know if you are saying something that is turning these girls off.

Thanks for the offer. I had to set up a new MM profile, get 100 matches and make my profile international so I could text in English first, so that took a while. I can't share my other texts as they're not in English so it just wouldn't work.

Here's a sample of a decent conversation I'm having.



https://imgur.com/a/Ncwvo5Q

Do you really believe she is beautiful?

It's more a persona/way of talking I'm running on tinder if that makes sense.

[jacknap]

Anyone else get the error where there's 'no one new to swipe on' but there almost certainly is.

Think it's low key shadow ban? Often times it goes back to normal though or my account is under review? I noticed tinder is getting more relaxed on the banning finally. Probably realizing being ban happy on customers will eventually lead to zero revenue. So props past 2 weeks or so tinder. It's been this way since yesterday though, usually fixes a lot faster. I still can message and I get a few matches trickle in still 1-3. Not nearly as much as when I can actively swipe though.

[pancakemouse]

(11-05-2018 05:43 PM)jacknap Wrote:  

Anyone else get the error where there's 'no one new to swipe on' but there almost certainly is.

Think it's low key shadow ban? Often times it goes back to normal though or my account is under review? I noticed tinder is getting more relaxed on the banning finally. Probably realizing being ban happy on customers will eventually lead to zero revenue. So props past 2 weeks or so tinder. It's been this way since yesterday though, usually fixes a lot faster. I still can message and I get a few matches trickle in still 1-3. Not nearly as much as when I can actively swipe though.

You try changing your distance to be lower, or age range? Or logging out and back in?

[pancakemouse]

(11-05-2018 03:16 PM)dtpilgrim Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 04:03 PM)corsega Wrote:  

The Netherlands and Germany probably have the lowest flake rates in the world. Definitely a cultural thing. I think I've told you to post your messages here for analysis - I'll repeat - this is the ONLY way to know if you are saying something that is turning these girls off.

Thanks for the offer. I had to set up a new MM profile, get 100 matches and make my profile international so I could text in English first, so that took a while. I can't share my other texts as they're not in English so it just wouldn't work.

Here's a sample of a decent conversation I'm having.



https://imgur.com/a/Ncwvo5Q

Your writing style is good in general. I wouldn't use a male model account. That will make it too easy. Use a photo of a normal guy.

Two adjustments:
1) Don't compliment girls, especially not off the open.
2) You're not pushing towards a meetup. You're texting just to text. I'm seeding the date within 4 messages and attempting to close in 8-10.

Did you ever read Playing With Fire or were you just in the group? I recommend it.

P.S. Ik praat Nederlands. Je kan me wel een PM versenden als je wil.

[yang2287]

(11-05-2018 03:16 PM)dtpilgrim Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 04:03 PM)corsega Wrote:  

The Netherlands and Germany probably have the lowest flake rates in the world. Definitely a cultural thing. I think I've told you to post your messages here for analysis - I'll repeat - this is the ONLY way to know if you are saying something that is turning these girls off.

Thanks for the offer. I had to set up a new MM profile, get 100 matches and make my profile international so I could text in English first, so that took a while. I can't share my other texts as they're not in English so it just wouldn't work.

Here's a sample of a decent conversation I'm having.



https://imgur.com/a/Ncwvo5Q

Can't believe she already hit the wall at 25

Anyway, you gave too much compliments

Get the girl to qualify

Get her to invest more (send blocks of text or questions)

Move her to whatsapp (always be closing)

I think for some Tinderellas, it pays to move fast and close after 8-10 msgs pushing for same day or next day meet up

But i have a feeling you can screen away potential FWB by moving too fast as well. Kinda confusing what these girls want

[Sender]

What do you guys think is the best way to deal with backstory when pipelining? I'm in Poland next week and not sure whether to tell matches that I'm only staying a couple of weeks or to imply that I'll be visiting regularly for 'work reasons'.

Roosh's take in his new book is this:

If a girl is responsive, she’ll likely ask for your backstory of why you’re visiting or what you do. You can play the tourist angle or hint that you’re developing long-term ties to her country. The sluttier a girl, the more she won’t mind banging a tourist for a few days, but it helps to plant the seed that you may stay a while so she has a reason to invest in you. Weave a story where it’s not obvious you’ll bang her and then immediately leave the country.

My matches tend be older -- around 30ish -- so I'm leaning towards long-term. However, on the other hand in his last podcast Roosh seemed to think that polish girls prefer darker skinned guys (which I am one) for short term or ONS.

Not quite sure how to play it.

[yang2287]

(11-06-2018 05:47 AM)Sender Wrote:  

What do you guys think is the best way to deal with backstory when pipelining? I'm in Poland next week and not sure whether to tell matches that I'm only staying a couple of weeks or to imply that I'll be visiting regularly for 'work reasons'.

Roosh's take in his new book is this:

If a girl is responsive, she’ll likely ask for your backstory of why you’re visiting or what you do. You can play the tourist angle or hint that you’re developing long-term ties to her country. The sluttier a girl, the more she won’t mind banging a tourist for a few days, but it helps to plant the seed that you may stay a while so she has a reason to invest in you. Weave a story where it’s not obvious you’ll bang her and then immediately leave the country.

My matches tend be older -- around 30ish -- so I'm leaning towards long-term. However, on the other hand in his last podcast Roosh seemed to think that polish girls prefer darker skinned guys (which I am one) for short term or ONS.

Not quite sure how to play it.

My story is that i am living between cities for work or collaboration etc 6 weeks here, 6 weeks there

But don't ask don't tell is the default policy. Most girls assume you are local if you are pipelining correctly (Using GPS spoof instead of TinderPlus)

Knowing the right time to schedule dates is the key here. They don't mind if you are away from the city for a few weeks. Interesting people travel all the time anyway, that's a DHV

I never say i am a tourist, i see it tends to have an ugly connotation. You kind of take on the sins of all the previous tourists (see: pump and dump, stag parties, vomiting, pissing, approach spammers)

[zamfir112]

Tinder is dead in sweden.i have pro photos.look like 7/10 sometimes 8/10.and i only match with 3-5 girls out of 100 swipes.useless these girls are not realistic at all.
im deleting the app

[griffinmill]

(11-06-2018 05:47 AM)Sender Wrote:  

My matches tend be older -- around 30ish -- so I'm leaning towards long-term. However, on the other hand in his last podcast Roosh seemed to think that polish girls prefer darker skinned guys (which I am one) for short term or ONS.

Not quite sure how to play it.

I've had lots of success in Poland and I'm Irish; blue-eyed and pale-skinned.

I have heard from many guys that girls there prefer darker guys. But it hasn't hampered my success.