[OGNorCal707]

Every time I smoke weed, I am meditating.

[tiggaling]

(12-28-2012 08:44 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

Your statements are extremely confusing. You don't believe in meditation, but you try to live your life as a meditation and assert that anyone who hasn't done a vipassana retreat is missing out?

Can you explain and elaborate?

I think its a useful thing to understand and practise. I just do not believe in meditation as the end all and be all of spiritual practise and feel it is very overstated in its importance. I believe more in personal work on the self as an active process.

I try to live my life and get more out of relating to others, than sitting with myself. On the other hand, many people have not really sat with themselves, or even really been alone or not spoken for 10 days - hence, 10 days vipassna is quite an experience for people who have never done that! :-)

[FitAsFuck]

A year or two back, I was looking for somewhere to start. Wanted something I could do by myself and take with me whereever I went. I think this video was the first one that lead me to Jon Kabat-Zinn.

He has some cd's that are called Guided mindfullness meditation. The one I have been using from time to time are series 3. You can buy them, but it is also possible to find them online...

He is really good at guiding you through the meditation. I cannot just sit down and do the same exercises without the guidance - so it really helps me.

[StarcraftGG]

Quote:

Last night I went and attended a Zen Buddhist Group and then a Vipassana Mediation meeting to see what each had to offer. The Buddhist meeting didn't even have a teacher - we just meditated - and with the other group, while I did learn a few things, the people seemed flaky and out-of-touch. I also was struck with a real irony that, while meditation is mean to be a solitary endeavour, these people meet on a regular basis to meditate together...Why not just meditate alone at home?

- Meditation does not always have to be a solitary endeavour. While many yoginis and high level meditators do meditate alone, it’s usually after they have achieved a certain level and can make progress by themselves. Even so, that doesn’t mean a person cannot benefit from group meditation. I’m familiar with several traditions of Buddhism and each one has emphasized the importance on the reliance on the Triple Jewel or Triple Gem -
The Buddha, the spiritual doctor who prescribes:
Dharma, teachings that are medicine for the deluded mind
with Sangha - the Buddhist spiritual community, which functions as a nurse that assists the Buddha. The Sangha includes teachers, ordained people, and other lay practitioners.

The three elements of the Triple Gem all work together to help a person on the way to enlightenment. From what I’m able to understand, I would say for most people, trying to get to enlightenment will be in dependence upon others (such as teachers). Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalyana_mittata

So, to think that this is a solo journey would probably be inaccurate. The Buddha himself was set upon the spiritual path only after realizing the suffering of other living beings. In a sense, even his realizations were in dependence upon other people. That leads us to some of the higher teachings in Buddhism which I’ve learned about but don’t profess to come close to fully understanding - things such as the interdependence of all phenomena, and the delusion of self-grasping ignorance which leads everyone to believe that there is an inherently existent self which is separate from other people. I wouldn’t get too worked up about people wanting to get together to meditate.

Quote:

It seemed a bit pointless, but I sense that Vipassana is supposed to be a lot more effective with some kind of guidance on what you should be doing with your mind. The teacher didn't seem that great. Everything that came out of her mouth was backtracked on or repeated in five different ways to make sure a) no one got somehow offended or b) she counter-acted every possible way to misunderstand what she said.

I appreciate a lot of these spiritual practices and recognize the benefits of meditation, but sometimes I find it difficult to relate to people who are so PC and don't seem very grounded on Earth.

-You may want to find another teacher that you can learn learn from who does not annoy you. I have a feeling it won’t be that hard to find. I’ve experienced spaced out teachers before and it makes me want to /facepalm. There are a few things to keep in mind when considering teachers and learning from them. What you experience depends on your mind and your own karma. If you seek out many teachers and all of them seem to suck and you have trouble making any spiritual progress, the problem is probably you - this is a form of karmic obstruction. You may have to work mightily hard at this thing. Even if that is the case, you are still in good shape compared to most people, who currently possess so little spiritual momentum that they wouldn’t realize anything if Buddha himself were the teacher (which in Buddhism, he still is - he just functions through his agents).

Quote:

Yet Buddhism, at least as it exists in Southeast Asia, is fanatical in holding on to "material" objects representing the Buddha. They worship his statues and cling to him - seems to fly in the face of impermanence. The erect huge, luxurious structures. The city of Bagan in Bhurma built so many of these temples that they obliterated the land around them for the materials and everyone had to leave the city because it became unlivable.

- You are encountering a characteristic of the world of samsara - the tainted and continuous cycle of rebirth and death. To put it plainly: things are fucked up in this world. That’s just the way it is. I think that idol worship and giant statues of Buddha erected to the detriment of other people misses the point, but the images and statues do serve a purpose. They are a visual reminder of what Buddhist are trying to achieve - escape from Samsara through the attainment of enlightenment and Buddhahood.

Quote:

And while reaching nirvana, or enlightenment, supposedly means you escape the cycle of reincarnation, they act as if the statues of their enlightened idols still have their spirits inside them. They pull them out to get sunshine. They bring them food and water."

- read this: http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/hist...vances.htm

Quote:

Finally, Buddha reached enlightenment by sitting under a tree and meditating alone. Yet all his followers meditate together.

- the story that most people hear about Buddha attaining enlightenment in one lifetime while sitting under a tree is the Buddha-lite version of the story. Buddha taught about past lives, including his own in something called the Jataka - look it up. He had to struggle too.. It took him many lifetimes to make enough progress to achieve the final attainment of enlightenment.

Quote:

And has anyone done a meditation retreat? I've been looking at doing one in Thailand for quite some time (not a tourist-centric one) where you live like the monks while you're there and meditate for days on end, with no speaking, eating after lunch, etc. There are also 10-day Vipassana retreats here in the states where they let you participate for free (donations recommended).

- I haven’t done one yet, but will do a short one soon hopefully. In the tradition which I practice, although there is strong emphasis on meditation, there is an acknowledgement that it is difficult for most people in the modern world to meditate continuously. Our teacher emphasizes the importance of practicing and maintaining mindfulness during the meditation break (all the time when you are not formally meditating). Although retreats can be good, I get the feeling that because we spend the vast majority of time outside of them, what goes on when you’re not meditating and not in a retreat is of vital importance as well.

[Beyond Borders]

(01-01-2013 11:38 AM)StarcraftGG Wrote:  

Quote:

Last night I went and attended a Zen Buddhist Group and then a Vipassana Mediation meeting to see what each had to offer. The Buddhist meeting didn't even have a teacher - we just meditated - and with the other group, while I did learn a few things, the people seemed flaky and out-of-touch. I also was struck with a real irony that, while meditation is mean to be a solitary endeavour, these people meet on a regular basis to meditate together...Why not just meditate alone at home?

- Meditation does not always have to be a solitary endeavour. While many yoginis and high level meditators do meditate alone, it’s usually after they have achieved a certain level and can make progress by themselves. Even so, that doesn’t mean a person cannot benefit from group meditation. I’m familiar with several traditions of Buddhism and each one has emphasized the importance on the reliance on the Triple Jewel or Triple Gem -
The Buddha, the spiritual doctor who prescribes:
Dharma, teachings that are medicine for the deluded mind
with Sangha - the Buddhist spiritual community, which functions as a nurse that assists the Buddha. The Sangha includes teachers, ordained people, and other lay practitioners.

The three elements of the Triple Gem all work together to help a person on the way to enlightenment. From what I’m able to understand, I would say for most people, trying to get to enlightenment will be in dependence upon others (such as teachers). Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalyana_mittata

So, to think that this is a solo journey would probably be inaccurate. The Buddha himself was set upon the spiritual path only after realizing the suffering of other living beings. In a sense, even his realizations were in dependence upon other people. That leads us to some of the higher teachings in Buddhism which I’ve learned about but don’t profess to come close to fully understanding - things such as the interdependence of all phenomena, and the delusion of self-grasping ignorance which leads everyone to believe that there is an inherently existent self which is separate from other people. I wouldn’t get too worked up about people wanting to get together to meditate.

Quote:

It seemed a bit pointless, but I sense that Vipassana is supposed to be a lot more effective with some kind of guidance on what you should be doing with your mind. The teacher didn't seem that great. Everything that came out of her mouth was backtracked on or repeated in five different ways to make sure a) no one got somehow offended or b) she counter-acted every possible way to misunderstand what she said.

I appreciate a lot of these spiritual practices and recognize the benefits of meditation, but sometimes I find it difficult to relate to people who are so PC and don't seem very grounded on Earth.

-You may want to find another teacher that you can learn learn from who does not annoy you. I have a feeling it won’t be that hard to find. I’ve experienced spaced out teachers before and it makes me want to /facepalm. There are a few things to keep in mind when considering teachers and learning from them. What you experience depends on your mind and your own karma. If you seek out many teachers and all of them seem to suck and you have trouble making any spiritual progress, the problem is probably you - this is a form of karmic obstruction. You may have to work mightily hard at this thing. Even if that is the case, you are still in good shape compared to most people, who currently possess so little spiritual momentum that they wouldn’t realize anything if Buddha himself were the teacher (which in Buddhism, he still is - he just functions through his agents).

Quote:

Yet Buddhism, at least as it exists in Southeast Asia, is fanatical in holding on to "material" objects representing the Buddha. They worship his statues and cling to him - seems to fly in the face of impermanence. The erect huge, luxurious structures. The city of Bagan in Bhurma built so many of these temples that they obliterated the land around them for the materials and everyone had to leave the city because it became unlivable.

- You are encountering a characteristic of the world of samsara - the tainted and continuous cycle of rebirth and death. To put it plainly: things are fucked up in this world. That’s just the way it is. I think that idol worship and giant statues of Buddha erected to the detriment of other people misses the point, but the images and statues do serve a purpose. They are a visual reminder of what Buddhist are trying to achieve - escape from Samsara through the attainment of enlightenment and Buddhahood.

Quote:

And while reaching nirvana, or enlightenment, supposedly means you escape the cycle of reincarnation, they act as if the statues of their enlightened idols still have their spirits inside them. They pull them out to get sunshine. They bring them food and water."

- read this: http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/hist...vances.htm

Quote:

Finally, Buddha reached enlightenment by sitting under a tree and meditating alone. Yet all his followers meditate together.

- the story that most people hear about Buddha attaining enlightenment in one lifetime while sitting under a tree is the Buddha-lite version of the story. Buddha taught about past lives, including his own in something called the Jataka - look it up. He had to struggle too.. It took him many lifetimes to make enough progress to achieve the final attainment of enlightenment.

Quote:

And has anyone done a meditation retreat? I've been looking at doing one in Thailand for quite some time (not a tourist-centric one) where you live like the monks while you're there and meditate for days on end, with no speaking, eating after lunch, etc. There are also 10-day Vipassana retreats here in the states where they let you participate for free (donations recommended).

- I haven’t done one yet, but will do a short one soon hopefully. In the tradition which I practice, although there is strong emphasis on meditation, there is an acknowledgement that it is difficult for most people in the modern world to meditate continuously. Our teacher emphasizes the importance of practicing and maintaining mindfulness during the meditation break (all the time when you are not formally meditating). Although retreats can be good, I get the feeling that because we spend the vast majority of time outside of them, what goes on when you’re not meditating and not in a retreat is of vital importance as well.

thanks a lot for your feedback! Good stuff. I haven't gone and read the linked material yet, but I will. You've given me some great food for thought here.

[R Smoov]

They had meditation every night in rehab. I loved it because I was able to free myself from reality. The coolest therapist there (Who interviewed Ted Bundy and injected me with a needle) would always make us relax.

The experience with meditation is powerful but it's way more fun and effective when by yourself. There were incidents where I'd meditate so damn hard I'd fall asleep.

I say find your method of meditation and have fun with it. My current way of meditating would be to blast music and write for hours about stories or whatever. It's cool shit guys.

[MidniteSpecial]

I do corpse pose. I try to do forty minutes a day. Sometimes I fall asleep in it. Sometimes my whole body jerks for a split second. (Drug use?) Who knows.

I can see what some of you mean by going to 'another' place. Ive stopped myself from going a few times. I will admit, I was scared to go any further. There really is another dimension.

A good book on this you should check out is called 'light body activation."

The craziest shit thats happened to me while doing corpse pose was when a voice came to me from nowhere and said, "remember what is was like to be a billionaire."

Shit you not. It was bugged the fuck out.

Any one else ever hear a voice during meditation before?

[Stitch]

I'm doing it as part of a long-term project since reading several studies associating "mindfulness meditation" with brain structure and higher levels of happiness and focus. So I'm coming to it from an absolutely clinical/non-spiritual angle. Since I often have trouble sleeping because of a runaway mind, I'm hoping it will help with that as well. Slow going (I can go 5-10 min and would like to work up to 20-30) but so far seems mildly beneficial.

[Saladin]

I have been meditating for quite a while, started trying it out in early 2011.

This year I've been much more consistent.

I just sit there and focus on being present by either observing my breath, my thoughts, or listening to the silence around me. A combination of the three usually.

I get much more relaxed after meditation, and it helps with sober game a lot because you're in a more relaxed state of mind.

I usually do it 20 minutes a day most days. Sometimes I'll do it for 40-50 days, and those days are very good because I'm incredibly relaxed.

I have a friend who does a hour a day, he says that basically anchors him to a positive relaxed mode the whole day. Its like I went from being completely relaxed to anger instantly.

As for the whole compassion thing, I find I have less patience for bullshit from bitches right after meditating but I'm more relaxed generally. I remember meditating on the train, then approaching a few girls who were being very bitchy and rude. I went off on them and basically ranted how they were pathetic. They were shocked. I don't know where that came from honestly but it was pretty awesome.

[Architekt]

Where's a good place to start? I'm interested in the whole meditation thing.

[Saladin]

(01-04-2013 04:02 AM)Architekt Wrote:  

Where's a good place to start? I'm interested in the whole meditation thing.

[Screwston]

Would it be a bad idea for a beginner to go here and try to free their mind? I've never meditated.

[xmlenigma]

(12-27-2012 07:50 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I try to do it everyday.

So that's G's secret youth sauce.

I've done extensive amounts. IT CLEARS your head big time. DE-FRAGMENTS thought patterns and energies.

Benefits.. endless.

The easy and tough part.. How do you fall into deep Meditation.

All the guides & teachers is they can only point the way and give techniques but you have to TRULY EXPERIENCE it SOMETIME or with some CONSISTENCY before it will SINK in.

There are tons of ways, guided tapes/ cds, breath related, mantra/ chant related, solo, group, close eyed, open eyed, and moving meditations.

The end goal is experiencing the SILENT mind. The NO MIND... even if for a short while.

It does some magic.

Why cant people fall into meditation easily all the time? Some more, some less.

Lots of factors..

I wont say any technique or school being better than another. The biggest issue is, the HARDER you try to MEDITATE, the worse it will get.

MEDITATION is DE-CONCENTRATION.. reaching a space of mental EFFORTLESSNESS..

It is the opposite of what we do in the PHYSICAL WORLD.. we push harder.. here.. its about LETTING GO and becoming EFFORTLESS.

Start and try out until some alternative works for you. Something that gives you a SILENT MIND, thoughtless NO MIND.

Do not give up if it does not work. It will hit you eventually.

Peace

PS: Some of the worlds top CEOs swear by it. Google around..

[iknowexactly]

It works. For me it reduces pointless rumination.

[Spirited]

Whenever I try it I always think "Ok am I doing it right yet?" "Oh shit I'm thinking about how well I'm doing"
and general shit like that. Going to persevere though.

[RexImperator]

When that happens the best course is that you just observe it happening but don't judge. Accept it and move on.

I really got into this. I have been using the "Mindfulness in Plain English" as a guide. I see there is already another thread about that very book...it's funny how similar we all are here, isn't it?

It's a challenge but I find it very helpful for getting out of my head and in the moment. At first it was extremely hard to go more than a split second without thought but it gets easier with practice. I try bringing this into everyday life whenever I can. It's helped me realize how much I was sabotaging myself with negative thoughts which really have no basis in reality.

[MidniteSpecial]

Corpse pose is my shit. 30-40 minutes when I find time.

[Architekt]

(06-29-2013 08:19 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

At first it was extremely hard to go more than a split second without thought

You make it sound like I meditate every time I'm on the internet....

[nmmoooreland20]

Funny, complete opposite. Mind goes into over-drive.

[pitt]

(12-27-2012 07:38 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

I've since come to the conclusion that the models that various meditation methods are based on are quite flawed. Mindfulness is a component of being mentally healthy but it's just one dimension, and it's not a one-size-fits-all solution to all emotional problems. Many meditation practices are is subtly biased against negative emotions (especially strong ones like anger). "If it's intense, just step back and watch it until it passes". It's a kind of suppression - forcing yourself into the "observer" state. Not healthy IMO.

THIS

Completely agree, this is the reason why i stopped doing meditation.

They literally believe that when you have a problem, you need to be open about it and never avoid thinking about it, otherwise you will be accumulating energy, according to them, not thinking about a problem, it's like cleaning a house and hiding the dirt under the carpet, soon or later it will get to you. This approach can be destructive, i have tried to use that approach and i was almost going through depression. Its like a beta guy being rejected by a cute girl and he decides to overthink what he did wrong, when he could just forget it and move on to a next girl.

[Sherman]

If you are new to meditation, I recommend this site. Every month he has a series of meditations conducted over skype. So you meditate in your own home. It is also inexpensive. Shinzen, who teaches the courses, was my first meditation instructor, and he is an internationally recognized instructor. He also has a lot of Youtube videos which are worth listening too.

http://www.basicmindfulness.org/


If you have time to meditate with a group, I also recommend the 10 day Vipassana Retreats according to the Goenka tradition. I took a course years ago, and now meditate an hour every day. They have courses all over the world. The facilities are excellent and the cost is donation only.

http://www.dhamma.org/

I also use the emWave2 machine which gives biofeedback on your heart rate and tells you when you are in a coherent state.

http://store.heartmath.org/emWave2/emWave2-handheld

[xmlenigma]

I've been through all these phases - they come and go. I'll try to address it the best I can online but truely the words cant do justice.

(06-29-2013 05:34 PM)Spirited Wrote:  

Whenever I try it I always think "Ok am I doing it right yet?" "Oh shit I'm thinking about how well I'm doing"
and general shit like that. Going to persevere though.

Again: effort, doubts, wanting perfection, just be.. there is not right or wrong.. whatever thoughts come & go.. just BE.

(06-29-2013 08:56 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  

Corpse pose is my shit. 30-40 minutes when I find time.

good! Even if you do this for short 10 min active yog nidra it will refresh more than a long nap.

(06-30-2013 02:02 PM)nmmoooreland20 Wrote:  

Funny, complete opposite. Mind goes into over-drive.

That's phase as well. Storm before the calm..
Mind is like surface of water.. It takes time to settle it.

The biggest over-drive complain i've seen with myself and others is..
"Lots of thoughts & impressions COME into my mind"
Fact: "Lots of thoughts & impressions are LEAVING your mind"

You can only have thoughts about what you have SEEN or EXPERIENCED. Can you have a clear thought about a FRUIT called XXyyzz from Planet 45-ZR?
Not until you've experienced it.

You can only have thoughts about: Person(s), Object(s), Situation(s).

So whatever you've gathered over life & experiences and impressions, trickles out.

Now how to shift from restless mind/ over-drive to "calm deep meditative mind".. lots of ways.. but best experienced on a proper retreat..
.. right foods.. certain physical activities (like yoga)..
.. extended silence & solitude.. again..
... There will be STORMS before the CALM sets in.

(06-30-2013 02:56 PM)pitt Wrote:  

(12-27-2012 07:38 PM)RichieP Wrote:  

I've since come to the conclusion that the models that various meditation methods are based on are quite flawed. Mindfulness is a component of being mentally healthy but it's just one dimension, and it's not a one-size-fits-all solution to all emotional problems. Many meditation practices are is subtly biased against negative emotions (especially strong ones like anger). "If it's intense, just step back and watch it until it passes". It's a kind of suppression - forcing yourself into the "observer" state. Not healthy IMO.

THIS

Completely agree, this is the reason why i stopped doing meditation.

They literally believe that when you have a problem, you need to be open about it and never avoid thinking about it, otherwise you will be accumulating energy, according to them, not thinking about a problem, it's like cleaning a house and hiding the dirt under the carpet, soon or later it will get to you. This approach can be destructive, i have tried to use that approach and i was almost going through depression. Its like a beta guy being rejected by a cute girl and he decides to overthink what he did wrong, when he could just forget it and move on to a next girl.

No model is flawed and All models are flawed. The goal of every model, technique, style is to bring SILENCE.

One of the big reasons why everyone wants SEX is because for that amount of time your MIND is in the PRESENT MOMENT, the NOW.. and hits SILENT space of NOT WANTING ANYTHING.

For a few moments after an intense orgasm, you want NOTHING. That brings MENTAL PEACE.

[jt797]

I want to meditate, but I don't have the attention span for it. I always get bored. Two minutes in and I want to stop and do something else, even if it's nothing.

[xmlenigma]

(07-06-2013 04:59 AM)jt797 Wrote:  

I want to meditate, but I don't have the attention span for it. I always get bored. Two minutes in and I want to stop and do something else, even if it's nothing.

LOL! THAT FEELING.. Happens to most of us even after years of meditation.

The biggest impediments to being able to RELAX into MEDITATION are..
RAJAS
TAMAS

You can read on it and ways to counter it.

That is why typically there is some technique or yoga or pranayama preceding it.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-06-2013 04:59 AM)jt797 Wrote:  

I want to meditate, but I don't have the attention span for it. I always get bored. Two minutes in and I want to stop and do something else, even if it's nothing.

This is one of the main reasons to meditate - to learn how to still that voice. You're training yourself to gain more control over your mind.

If this is especially a problem for you, that's just a sign of how much you need to learn meditation.

My personal philosophy is to always run towards my fears and challenges rather than away from them.