[Tuthmosis]

Earlier today, Roosh posted the video below in his Twitter feed. These are American girls dancing on one of those music TV shows in 1969. Ever since I saw it, it's had my hamster going at a million. I've watched five times, even though it fills me with a melancholic feeling I can't entirely describe.

I could write paragraphs about it, but I don't need to with this group.

Quick Observations:

1. No tattoos.
2. Thin, even skinny.
3. Longer hair (on average).
4. Natural and sexy (but unskanky) look.
5. Subtly feminine aura that's near-impossible to describe.
6. Better music.

A purple piller might say: "Well, Tuthmosis, those are hand-picked chicks for the TV show." What would we respond? It's not like when you walked out of that studio you had a bunch of Adeles and Anal-Tattoo Broads walking on the street, and these were the only 11 girls like this. This may not have been typical, but it was common.

A skeptic would say, "You're just romanticizing the past. There were other draw-backs--like prudishness." That could be true, but I can't help but think, like Roosh muses, "I would have been more than happy" with this arrangement. Certainly more--or in a more meaningful way--than I am with the current crop.

It's an interesting historical moment for guys with our sensibilities too: right in the midst of the so-called "sexual revolution," and the advent of second-wave feminism. Was this the best time to be a man? Slightly liberated chicks, but not yet ruined. Or, is this, in fact, the beginning of the long ascent that we find ourselves at the bottom of? Or, is it something else entirely?

Let's discuss.

[caligula89]

lol @ the feminism hate on this forum.

It would suck to live in the 1960's. No internet. No cheap travel options. Strong social stigmatization around premarital sex. Strong chance of being drafted to go fight a stupid war in the jungle in a far off place. Black people couldn't even drink at the same water fountain as white men could.

Fuck that shit. WE live in the best era to be a man.

[chochemonger1]

At that time Soviet women were considered fat women, who hit the wall as quick as any women in the world. Lord, how times have changed.
Late 60s and 70s American women were still very feminine. Just check out some episodes of Love Boat or the movie Saturday Night Fever, and it is surreal how things have changed. Agree with you 100 percent Tuth.

[Tuthmosis]

My responses in captions below.

(12-13-2012 02:23 AM)caligula89 Wrote:  

lol @ the feminism hate on this forum.

You spoiled an otherwise insightful statement out of the gate with this bizarre statement, but let's pretend you didn't say it for now.

(12-13-2012 02:23 AM)caligula89 Wrote:  

No internet.

Not convinced the Internet is a net-gain. Same goes for cell phones. I'm no Luddite, but technology hasn't necessarily made our lives better when you take a macro view.

(12-13-2012 02:23 AM)caligula89 Wrote:  

Strong chance of being drafted to go fight a stupid war in the jungle in a far off place.

Agree with this.

(12-13-2012 02:23 AM)caligula89 Wrote:  

Black people couldn't even drink at the same water fountain as white men could.

The racial politics (also vis-a-vis interracial dating and marriage) also give me pause in categorically declaring this a golden age.

(12-13-2012 02:23 AM)caligula89 Wrote:  

Fuck that shit. WE live in the best era to be a man.

Disagree. We live in the best era to rack up notches--that I won't dispute. This doesn't necessarily make it the best era to be a man.

[chochemonger1]

(12-13-2012 02:23 AM)caligula89 Wrote:  

lol @ the feminism hate on this forum.

It would suck to live in the 1960's. No internet. No cheap travel options. Strong social stigmatization around premarital sex. Strong chance of being drafted to go fight a stupid war in the jungle in a far off place. Black people couldn't even drink at the same water fountain as white men could.

Fuck that shit. WE live in the best era to be a man.

Late 50s and early 60s were a different time than that video. No internet, made day game and night game much easier. Late 60s, the civil rights movement was in full swing and in our time we have the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars.
Also going to Rio de Janeiro or any part of Brazil, would have made you a very happy man at that time. The music was way better.
Call me a nostalgic man, if you will lol.

[chochemonger1]

Lets not forget that the sexual revolution was in full motion then. I am not so sure American men have it so much easier now with women, than in the 70s or 80s. Also, you had a lot more quality then.

[caligula89]

I like David Deida's perspective on masculinity, which is purpose and action. There is more opportunity for men to be masculine today than at any time in history.

Let's compare today with the 1960's in two areas.

Career

1960's - Most men graduated from high school, took a union job and worked for the same company for decades. There was a lot of security in jobs back then: guaranteed pension, health insurance, steady middle class income. By the time you were in your mid-20's, you could totally buy a house no problem.

If you excelled in school, you could go to college and maybe work up the corporate ladder.

Very hard to be self-employed. There were serious limitations on communication and transportation. You either started a local business or you went big.

Today - Life is much harder for the coasters. You can't just get a job and expect a company to take care of you unless you have skills, and even then job security is usually fleeting.

That said, this is the best economy ever for people who have a good work ethic, love to learn, and take risks. Practically unlimited amounts of information on ANYTHING is available on demand. The internet makes starting a multinational corporation practically free (My main freelance writing clients right now are in Detroit, Singapore, Melbourne and Austin).

Basically you have to learn and master a craft. Maybe you become a marketer. Maybe you become an electrician. Maybe you become a mechanic. Maybe you become a railroad repair dude. If you master a skill, then the opportunities really are endless.

So yea, you can't coast. You can't land a job, show up for eight hours and be taken care of forever. Guess what, you have to step the fuck up and make shit happen nowadays.

But you know what, if you do... then the possibilities really are endless.

Women

1960's - Women were looser in the 1960's than they were in the 1950's... but not as much as you might think. Most women were NOT hippies or all that sexually liberated. If you think slut shaming is bad now... damn.

I think if you rolled into a typical university in the 1960's, I think you would be struck by how hard it would be to bed a woman fast.

Look, our biology is biology. The same shit attracted women back then that attracts them now. It's just that getting through the bullshit would have taken a LOT of work.

Now again, it was doable. I know plenty of old dudes who were players back then. But those guys had some fucking skills and they hung around with the right crowds.

In relationships, women were probably more "submissive," but there was also a lot of social shit to deal with. Want to bang your girlfriend? Cool, but you'd better not tell anyone about it. Want to move in with your girlfriend? Have fun with that stigmitization!

And bringing out her bisexual tendancies... bahahahaha!

And if you got married... geez, have fun being the prime source of income, getting trapped in a job you hate because you can't afford to quit and miss bill payments. Sounds pretty fucking masculine, doesn't it?

Today - Women today are awesome. Most are open with their sexuality, are open to different kinds of relationships, and are actually fully capable of supporting themselves.

This leaves you free to do pretty much whatever the fuck you want. Want a fuck buddy? There are lots of great women for that. Want a girlfriend who cooks for you and gives you great blowjobs? There are lots of great women for that. Want an open relationship? Damn right.

And guess what, today it's dirt cheap to travel. So if you want a Thai woman, you can actually go to Thailand and get one!

Are there bitches? Yea. Are there manipulative women who do crazy shit? Yea.

Have there been, and always will be bitches? Yea. Have there, and always will be manipulative bitches who do crazy shit? Yea.

Sorry for the rant. I just hate it when people harken back to "golden ages" in anything.

[Tuthmosis]

(12-13-2012 02:56 AM)caligula89 Wrote:  

I just hate it when people harken back to "golden ages" in anything.

You do realize you're doing the same thing, except with the present, right? You're painting a romanticized (and inaccurate) portrait of today.

Plus, the hearkening-to-an-imagined-golden-age was tempered and accounted-for from the first post (and below it). In other words, you're straw-manning.

[caligula89]

Good point Tuthmosis :-)

[caligula89]

I personally subscribe to the belief system that things steadily get better over time. Obviously really disruptive shit can happen, but I'm sure being a man in 2030 will be even better than being a man today.

[Stitch]

Quote:

Quick Observations:

1. No tattoos.
2. Thin, even skinny.
3. Longer hair (on average).
4. Natural and sexy (but unskanky) look.
5. Subtly feminine aura that's near-impossible to describe.
6. Better music.

I wouldn't want to be in that era for some of the many reasons discussed above, but I agree with all these points (the only downcomment on the girls in the video is that they didn't look like they were really having all that much fun). What pisses me off about many western women today (and frankly men too) is this weird sense of entitlement that they bring to everything, as if the world owes them big time just for existing. I've been to parties with rather hot young women that should have set me on fire, but their undeserved sense of that the world owes them everything is just so repellent I couldn't stand to be near them. Give me a girl-next-door slim feminine woman over a smoking hot "entitled" idiot any day.

[Giovonny]

Most American women are currently overweight. So, I think its safe to say American women were more attractive back then.

As far as other issues like politics, social conditions, technology, etc. ???

Who cares?

The chicks were hotter!

Which era would I rather live in?

I don't know, it hurts my brain to think about it!

[Screwston]

I don't think you need to go that far back, I would be happy if I was transformed to the early 90's. Life was a lot different before cell phones and the internet got huge. Plus, I hate hairy pussies.

[NYC_HipsterDouchebag]

The girls were thin and pretty with a kind of sexy but innocent thing that I would have just pounced on. I wonder what it was like to be able to marry a virgin...sigh

[j r]

Are you sure that those are American girls? They look more English.

[Roosh]

Yes the video struck me in a profound way as well.

For the all the things we've supposedly gained, our losses may be greater.

Guys say "We can fuck a lot more girls now!" but there's no way to know if that would give you more or less happiness than a relationship with a woman from this video (with a mistress on the side). Sometimes I wonder if modern players are hamsters as well with their behavior, though we don't have much choice in the matter.

(12-13-2012 06:44 AM)j r Wrote:  

Are you sure that those are American girls? They look more English.

It's an American band. Unless they flew to Britain to shoot the video...

[storm]

Good discussion between Tuth and caligula89.

Ask yourself... Would you live your grandfather's life over your own?

[Caligula]

That video looks like Top of the Pops, a UK show that in the sixties and seventies was criticised for sexualising youth culture. Just think that how those girls carry on would have been considered grossly inappropriate by many at the time.

There was a transition period with the best of both worlds; some sexual liberation against a backdrop of traditional values. Unfortunately that state can only last a generation before traces of the old ways are swept away.

(12-13-2012 06:50 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Sometimes I wonder if modern players are hamsters as well with their behavior, though we don't have much choice in the matter.

The questions are 1) can a LTR with a high quality woman make you happier than the playboy life? and 2) is it possible to have that kind of stable, happy LTR today? 3) if so, in what circumstances is it possible?

Your post about changing your player beliefs really got me thinking about this - http://www.rooshv.com/how-to-kill-the-player-inside-you

It's easy to say that you can never never be happy in an LTR. With how things are in the West and how the rest of the world is following settling down looks like a poor bet.

This is such a firmly held belief around here and it's starting to look like groupthink. Maybe it's right, but even so it's worth thinking about critically and looking at both sides.

[Wool Suit]

(12-13-2012 06:50 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Sometimes I wonder if modern players are hamsters as well with their behavior, though we don't have much choice in the matter.

Devil's Advocate: I've often wondered how many women feel the same, i.e. no choice in the matter. Women, much more than men, are social creatures, and the exit barriers (shaming, ostracizing) to adopting a less hamster-inspired view of the world are much more serious for them. I don't know if I've ever heard of a loner woman, not counting spinsters and cat ladies. Groupthink, etc., etc.

Not talking about your standard dumb American obsessed with social media, celebrities, and bullshit. No, I mean a thinking woman who has to put on a show for her friends to avoid being singled out. I have encountered a few of these; they are quite a treat.

Also, whether or not they are English girls is a legitimate question; The Archies were a fictional cartoon band with real-world counterparts and "Sugar, Sugar" was incredibly popular everywhere. But I'd like to believe they were standard American quality back then.

--

As to the debate at large, the 1960s were hardly a golden age for many reasons. But, then again, which age ever is? The real question is how do we intrinsically measure the perceived value of an age? By the women's appearance?
Overarching ideology? Technology and connectedness? It's all very subjective.

But, for my money, I must say I'm envious of the men from the American 1960s. The women were better looking, on average, if only because they were more feminine and less fat. Bullshit and fringe beliefs weren't tolerated nearly as much (imagine a Skrillex fatty trying to walk down Madison Avenue). And you could actually count on a lady (a term I never use to describe today's women) to stand by your side. Perhaps there was less overall sex but I daresay a fulfilling relationship with a good woman (plus the obvious mistress as mentioned above) may have meant a happier life overall.

That's the true measure, really: happiness. And while it's easy to line up obvious (for our time period) downsides of such an age - rampant racism, religion, and radioactive risk, to name a few - perhaps the men of the 1960s were just plain happier than we'll ever be.

Food for thought.

[Caligula]

(12-13-2012 03:07 AM)caligula89 Wrote:  

I personally subscribe to the belief system that things steadily get better over time. Obviously really disruptive shit can happen, but I'm sure being a man in 2030 will be even better than being a man today.

Things getting materially better does not mean they get morally better. I'd much rather live today than any time in the past, but technological progress is not moral progress.

Your average person has more opportunities today to live a good, happy life than ever before. But most people take that to mean having more stuff, more money, racking up more notches. That's not what makes most people fundamentally happier.

[Wool Suit]

(12-13-2012 07:50 AM)Caligula Wrote:  

That's not what makes most people fundamentally happier.

I like where your head's at. There's a strong case to be made all our 'stuff' - by whatever definition you choose - is making us less happy. One of the reasons I started reading Roosh in the first place was he obviously already knew this.

The more shit we fill our lives with doesn't mean anything other than we have more shit in our lives. Would you really be unhappy in a world without the Internet? Without a smartphone? Billions of people lived in such times, and we're living proof they could at least copulate. Probably even happily.

[Tully Mars]

all good points, but I will throw another wrinkle into the mix....I am in my late 30's pushing 40, I grew up in the early 80's- early 90's....in my opinion these were the last decades of innocence, no internet, porn on demand, smart phones, men were portrayed in the media as men....I assume some of the previous posters grew up in the late 90's-early 00's....there perspectives are gonna be a lot different......I am sure some of the older posters have not only watched this decline but have lived it.....I would of loved to experienced the late 60's and 70's as a young man....

[painter]

Great video, I love that song. Those chicks all look great but as Houston pointed out, massive hair pies. At least today chicks are great about shaving it all off.

The blonde at :54 really looked good and then you see the guy in the suit pop up as a good example of male style at the time. Guys who weren't dirty hippies back then dressed really well. They were still echoing the 40's when 95% of men wore suits every day.

It was a golden age for hooking up with the sexual revolution. Before AIDS scared the fuck out of everybody even your average schlub could get casual sex. You didn't have sexually repressed retards going around shooting up schools or malls or movie theaters in the 70's, although it was the golden age of serial killers like Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy. Those guys didn't kill from a lack of sex though, it was because they were oversexed and had to take it to another level to get off.

Guys I know who lived back then talk about every night being a fuckfest, at the bars, house parties, even just walking down the street or driving around and picking up hitchhikers, everyone was ready to fuck and they didn't play games or act coy about it.

With no internet or smartphones, only four tv stations, AM radio and 8 tracks people got out of the house and socialized. Compare that to Saturday night in a club today where you need good game to even pull a fatty. I'd rather be bopping around to the Archies with little to no game and still being able to pull a halfway decent, feminine chick (even if she's got a full bush growing up out of her granny panties).

[Frost]

Feminism is great. It creates empowered, i.e. slutty women, and who can argue with that?

But feminism also destroys women. In the short term, women adopting feminist beliefs is gravy. American women in the 60s and 70s were the best of both worlds - feminine and traditional at their core, but coming around to the idea of casual, commitment free sex.

Today the women are still easy, but most have lost their feminine allure. It's never been easier to get laid, but it's never been harder to find a woman who might actually inspire you to settle down.

[el mechanico]

Well this just pissed me off...

I go on Facebook this morning to do some trolling and in one of the ads on the sidebar there's a pic of this girl and says "meet local single mature women"
[attachment=9083]

Really motherfuckers? I need to click this ad to get more of this?

The point: Even though I was young in the 70s I remember hanging with the girls on my street. They were pretty damn hot and it's not my imagination because they post pictures all the time. Most of them married. Once and still are.

Back in the day that fat chick that facebook is trying to get me to sport wouldn't even want to leave her house and ANY dude who would hit that would have to sneak over on a night with no moon and threaten her not to tell anyone. Now? You see clowns walking around the mall with that crap.