[OkStudies]

Alot of trash talk about Toronto on these boards and it gets alot of publicity here, but Toronto seems tame compared San Francisco when it comes to chicks. At least the male to female ratio over there is favorable and the chicks are reasonably hot, if bitchy. I thought I'd give San Francisco some much deserved attention for this.

Not just the city proper, but the area in general. Alot of chicks in the area, seem to not just dislike the idea of being approached, but to actively "hate" men.

Some highlights of the area's culture:

- If you look too long at a (semi) cute girl your "creepy".

- Sausage fests: 3 to 1 male to female ratios in bars and to a lesser extent clubs are pretty much the norm

- Chicks that are not only ugly or poorly dressed, but "revel" in it, like some sort of status or badge of honor

- High concentration of beta's (mostly in the software industry) who tend to have (rather annoying) anti-social traits and pedestalize women.

- Flaky, confused women who go from one sexual whim to the next (can't decide if they are lesbian, bi, "pansexual", whatever)

- The list goes on an on it's just a lame (yet overhyped and overpriced) place to live for a single guy. Steer clear. Especially also San (Man) Jose.

The only cities I would recommend are Walnut creek, Berkeley or Emeryville for single dudes. Everywhere else including SF fucking sucks for women.

[Basil Ransom]

Relevant: http://whytherearenogirls.blogspot.com/

I don't have much personal experience with SF, but the blog above is pretty brilliant. I've met lots of cool girls from Northern California, but it seems like the cool ones come down to Southern California as refuge from the lameness of SF/the Bay Area. SF has more of that super-white, Northern European mentality of, "we're super politically correct and conformist, but occasionally we go crazy to show how not stiff we are! Because that stiffness was just an act!" Burning Man, Bay to Breakers - periodic releases of stress from being anal the rest of the year. In Southern California, it's more like, we're chill all year round, we don't need some scripted event that gives us license to act really weird. The kind of place where people drink hard to keep themselves from getting out of line - they rely on the alcohol for cojones, and when it isn't there, they're spineless bores. It helps them be a good agreeable cubicle resident.

[DVY]

yes, i have long parroted this view, but your missing out. The asian girls are stunningly fly in SF and very much down. There is a huge population of foreigners that live in SF that are a blast! The white girls suck balls tho.

Man, i could detail day by day which clubs/bars to go to. At least its 6 months relevant.

There are a lot of factors of SF that you leave out. First, its a cabbing/walking city. That means no lame duck cockblocker who guards. Second, hoes can come to you easily and they can drink hard with you (no drunk driving). Thirdly, you can walk everywhere to get food and cab it anywhere.

In conclusion, you just need to acclimate to the scene and grow some social circles. Dont be so quick to put it down. Restaurants, bars, happy hours, sexy ladies swishing up and down Market street, marina, richmond, union. Lots of good stuff.

[Brosemite]

(12-09-2012 12:49 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Relevant: http://whytherearenogirls.blogspot.com/

I don't have much personal experience with SF, but the blog above is pretty brilliant. I've met lots of cool girls from Northern California, but it seems like the cool ones come down to Southern California as refuge from the lameness of SF/the Bay Area. SF has more of that super-white, Northern European mentality of, "we're super politically correct and conformist, but occasionally we go crazy to show how not stiff we are! Because that stiffness was just an act!" Burning Man, Bay to Breakers - periodic releases of stress from being anal the rest of the year. In Southern California, it's more like, we're chill all year round, we don't need some scripted event that gives us license to act really weird.

Yeah my sister felt the same way when visiting SF. She was amazed by how much friendlier LA people are with regards to first impressions, which is a very big discredit to SF seeing how she's not a fan of the scene in So Cal period.

[rudebwoy]

Have you been to Toronto?
There is an expression that people use to describe the faces of girls here, screwface.
A city with so many dudes in the software industry might be a good thing for a "alpha" man, no competition.
I thought some members actually rated San Francisco as a decent place to game.

[scorpio]

People in California are easy to approach. It's rooted in the culture to make easy small talk with strangers, so I doubt it's as hard as Toronto.

There is a lot of whining on RVF in general. Everyone thinks they have it so hard, and everyone else has it easy. For all the complaints about Bay Area women, at least they don't expect you to marry them in 6 months. Nor are they one-dimensional like SoCal women.

Hey guys, I just show up a bar and I have to beat down the 20 pieces of ass that pull down their panties in front of me. No wait, that's Mixx. Sorry.

[OkStudies]

Quote:

SF has more of that super-white, Northern European mentality of, "we're super politically correct and conformist, but occasionally we go crazy to show how not stiff we are! Because that stiffness was just an act!"

Yes, you've nailed it. That's exactly the vibe and mentality you get up here. It's bizarre at first, but when considering the industries that are prevalent, it then makes sense .

Quote:

There is an expression that people use to describe the faces of girls here, screwface.
A city with so many dudes in the software industry might be a good thing for a "alpha" man, no competition.

No, but I've seen pretty much every episode of Keys to the VIP (which takes place in Toronto) and I can tell you from that observation, the girls in those clubs look and act 5 times better than Bay Area chicks. Not to mention I saw much better ratios. It really doesn't seem that bad in Toronto.

Please come to SF and you will see. Take the challenge. In fact I challenge all of you to come here and try yourselves.

Quote:

People in California are easy to approach. It's rooted in the culture to make easy small talk with strangers, so I doubt it's as hard as Toronto.
For all the complaints about Bay Area women, at least they don't expect you to marry them in 6 months. Nor are they one-dimensional like SoCal women.

Easy to approach? Try daygaming in SF. It will change your opinion immediately. Me and my wing, did this day in and day out, its brutal dude. And no they are not "one dimensional" in the Socal sense, but to say they have much else to offer besides pussy would be a lie.

Bottom line I'd take socal chicks over norcal ones. There isn't *that* much of a difference in intelligence between the two. Just norcal girls are more educated (read: annoying), but what straight guy honestly cares about that anyway? Educated chicks say and do the same dumb shit anyway. Read the vapid okcupid profiles they make.

[beta_plus]

My feelings after a year in grad school in the north bay was that SF girls were uglier than DC, but had much better attitudes.

However, as a half-dane who lived in Toronto-Occupied-Ontario for 5 years, there is no way SF Bay is as bad as Toronto or Copenhagen. You cannot truly appreciate the concept of entitled feminist princess until you have been to those places. Girls in SF will at least talk to you. I can't count on that in TO or CPH.

I am not trying to make light of your situation. I know it sucks. But Toronto is a much deeper circle of hell than SF.

[kosko]

Lets switch! I'll take SF any day over Tdot.

My buddy just spent 3 months or so in Cali mostly in the North parts in and around SF. Dude said the lifestyle was nice and the people were chill. He spent most of his time in Santa Cruz and Concord. He had nothing good to say and he said the girls we're chill and down most of the times. He said it was not as easy as Chicago for him but still had a blast.

Toronto is what SF thinks it's self as - The Liberal Feminized wasteland is what Toronto actually is.

Yea I do here the White girls are beat in SF. But why waist your time there when you got a host of other types of women to go at. SF always had a good rep for Asian women so go after them. No sure what the talent is for sisters and Latinas but I have always herd good things about the Black girls in the suburbs of SF.

[Moma]

(12-09-2012 11:38 PM)kosko Wrote:  

Lets switch! I'll take SF any day over Tdot.

My buddy just spent 3 months or so in Cali mostly in the North parts in and around SF. Dude said the lifestyle was nice and the people were chill. He spent most of his time in Santa Cruz and Concord. He had nothing good to say and he said the girls we're chill and down most of the times. He said it was not as easy as Chicago for him but still had a blast.

Toronto is what SF thinks it's self as - The Liberal Feminized wasteland is what Toronto actually is.

Yea I do here the White girls are beat in SF. But why waist your time there when you got a host of other types of women to go at. SF always had a good rep for Asian women so go after them. No sure what the talent is for sisters and Latinas but I have always herd good things about the Black girls in the suburbs of SF.

Kosko is right. I go for any group that is receptive. If she has a fit frame, I go for it. Asian, Indian, White, Latina, I don't give a fcuk.
When I came to Toronto, I started with black, after the bullshyt, I tried other races but it was pretty much the same shyt.
Again, I ate but the work output was unnecessarily high for ordinary gains.

[DVY]

@OP- i will leave it a this. Game is game. Something you are doing is not right. I would get a new notch every other weekend that I went out. Had a rotation of 5-6 girls. I left all that in SF to come to LA and haven't had anywhere near that sucess.

Maybe, day-game was never my approach in SF. These girls get a lot of attnetion on muni and are on auto-reject mode. Try gaming at night on the streets. Hell, half my swoops were after-club smoking jay swoops that lead to food that lead to her walking to my place from food.

Focus on interaction w/girl and it will all go smoothly.

[rudebwoy]

(12-09-2012 04:57 PM)OkStudies Wrote:  

Quote:

SF has more of that super-white, Northern European mentality of, "we're super politically correct and conformist, but occasionally we go crazy to show how not stiff we are! Because that stiffness was just an act!"

Yes, you've nailed it. That's exactly the vibe and mentality you get up here. It's bizarre at first, but when considering the industries that are prevalent, it then makes sense .

Quote:

There is an expression that people use to describe the faces of girls here, screwface.
A city with so many dudes in the software industry might be a good thing for a "alpha" man, no competition.

No, but I've seen pretty much every episode of Keys to the VIP (which takes place in Toronto) and I can tell you from that observation, the girls in those clubs look and act 5 times better than Bay Area chicks. Not to mention I saw much better ratios. It really doesn't seem that bad in Toronto.

Please come to SF and you will see. Take the challenge. In fact I challenge all of you to come here and try yourselves.

Quote:

People in California are easy to approach. It's rooted in the culture to make easy small talk with strangers, so I doubt it's as hard as Toronto.
For all the complaints about Bay Area women, at least they don't expect you to marry them in 6 months. Nor are they one-dimensional like SoCal women.

Easy to approach? Try daygaming in SF. It will change your opinion immediately. Me and my wing, did this day in and day out, its brutal dude. And no they are not "one dimensional" in the Socal sense, but to say they have much else to offer besides pussy would be a lie.

Bottom line I'd take socal chicks over norcal ones. There isn't *that* much of a difference in intelligence between the two. Just norcal girls are more educated (read: annoying), but what straight guy honestly cares about that anyway? Educated chicks say and do the same dumb shit anyway. Read the vapid okcupid profiles they make.

Keys to the VIP, is this a show? TV shows are usually staged especially if it a reality show.
Ratio's in Toronto clubs are just like everywhere else, more guys than girls. Doesn't really mean much because the girls aren't going out to meet guys, just to socialize with there friends, get some attention and mostly get free drinks of some schmucks sitting in VIP.
I will pass on your challenge, I have a tougher one to deal with everyday here.
Since you think Toronto is so great, feel free to come and try your luck. You will have plenty of dudes from this forum to wing with! lol

[Beyond Borders]

(12-09-2012 01:01 PM)DVY Wrote:  

Man, i could detail day by day which clubs/bars to go to. At least its 6 months relevant.

Please do! I'll be in SF later this month.

[kosko]

To add to that. KEYS TO THE VIP is also dated. The show is almost 8-10 years old and was filled at the height of Toronto nightlife and the 'Clubland' bubble. At Clubland's peak you had 75-100,000+ people partying downtown EVREY WEEKEND in a square mile radius. Toronto at that time had more clubs per capita than Miami and was only second to Vegas overall in North America. That was a generation ago it seems. I was in Toronto in those dying days and it was night and day compared to know with how easy you could game women.

So much has changed since then. For example they smoked inside on that show - you can't do that any longer.

Even though it was reality TV it was fairly spot on in showing the crowd and vibe of the City back then. It was Toronto's only chance to 'grow up' and become cool as a city and they fucked it all up. People were skipping over spots like Montreal, NYC, Vegas, LA, etc and pooling money into Toronto nightlife. People got to greedy, smoking laws, bottle service trends, and politics fucked it up - also the people dynamics changed, women got more fuked in the head and I have no idea how and why.

The only knock on San Fran is its crazy cost of living but I feel at least salaries reflect those costs and Men in San Fran can make good coin doing money or tech. In Toronto - regardless of the stats on City Data - I see Females and Homos caking heavy here and living the Downtown life more then the traditional high flying elite Males you would find in other top tier Cities. Boston, SF, NYC, LA, etc Men are still controlling the top ends of wealth/jobs. Here in TO... Iunnoo.

What is the Vibe in SF? Is thier a open hookup culture? Are things more social circle oriented there? And do yall exploit the suburbs there more than the City?

[RoScience]

Just got back from a weekend in SF.

I'm currently in SoCal and I would say for the college educated male, SF>LA.

My impressions are that SF feels like a legit city and like someone mentioned before, is very walk-able. In LA you have to drive everywhere and traffic seriously lowers your quality of life; just ask speakeasy.

Any city will always have more alumni from the surrounding colleges than other universities. This means the city will be filled with Stanford and Berkeley Alum. This means that a lot of the city is influenced by the educated.

Aesthetically, SF is more pleasing both in it's natural surroundings (trees, water, hills), but also it's architecture is more impressive.

There are not as many mexicans in NorCal. Nothing against mexicans, as I have many as friends, but if your county is 40% mexican, it can't be ignored. Most do not have a college education and do not add as much value per capita household as other races aside from blacks.

SF has more of a northwest feel than a SoCal feel. And who can forget

I also remember reading an article awhile back that Seattle was named the "smartest" city in the US with Portland and SF close behind. But honestly, I think anywhere with a lot of white and asians (east + south) plus a progressive culture will probably be a conscientious city. Just look at the demographics in Silicon Valley.

In terms of girls, I would say LA is better in both quantity and quality, but SF is more convenient for girls.

Also the people I talked to seemed very nice, and I saw homeless people treated very well. lol

With such a small sample size it'd be hard to pin down the people but the overall feel is definitely a northwest feel mixed in with a hodgepodge of immigrant grittiness.

Few other notes:

The city, aside from it's charm, is surprisingly clean.

People in general are dressed very well.

People are taller.

Anyways hope that helps. Anyone who hasn't been should really spend a couple days in and around the city. I understand why Gio may never leave.

[OkStudies]

Ok,

Let me break it down for you guys. Dudes are coming here for a "weekend" and getting some sort of impression it's the most awesome place in the world. I *live* here. I have lived here in the area most of my life. I know this place underneath all the bullshit, touristy areas and the surface of things. I know how it can "seem" to outsiders.

SF is a beautiful city in terms of architecture and surroundings, but it's actually very very dirty and full of homeless. The streets are filthy and it's filled with idiot politicians who don't or can't solve their way out of a paper bag with their inane laws.

The ratios are much worse than anything you could imagine. SF is a nominal part of Silicon Valley and Silicon valley = dudes. Go to a club or bar and see for yourself with *your own eyes*. In any given club you *might* find 3-4 approach worthy chicks and lots of dudes surrounding them.

Daygaming is a brutal gauntlet. The girls here are just downright rude. Prepare for auto-rejection, evil eye stares, " I have a boyfriend" bs, feminism etc. Nightgaming not much better (see ratios) and quality is terrrible. You have 5 guys all after the same semi-decent chick and it's not going to end well.

@the guy who said asian chicks, yes, they do dress (and act) better than white girls but it barely makes up for their lacks (tits and ass) and they are not as freaky as white girls. So I still find myself going after white, black or latin chicks mostly.

Much better places to game. Namely NY, Austin, Dallas etc.

@ kosko I did'nt know things have changed that drastically so thanks for the 411. I still think Toronto has much more potential than SF. This is by virtue of the shitty NIMBY politics of SF which has a tendency to kill fun any and everywhere it is to be found.

[RoScience]

lol you sound jaded as fuck. And pretty negative. Why would you come to the defense of Toronto (out of the blue) if you lived in the bay area most of your life? People on this board that have lived in Toronto "most of their lives" trash that place. Even Roosh said it was really bad. And he's a guy who has made hauntingly accurate travel guides (when comparing my own experiences).

(12-11-2012 01:23 AM)OkStudies Wrote:  

Ok,

Let me break it down for you guys. Dudes are coming here for a "weekend" and getting some sort of impression it's the most awesome place in the world. I *live* here. I have lived here in the area most of my life. I know this place underneath all the bullshit and the surface of things. I know how it can "seem" to outsiders.

SF is a beautiful city in terms of architecture and surroundings, but it's actually very very dirty and full of homeless. The streets are filthy and it's filled with idiot politicians who don't or can't solve their way out of a paper bag with their inane laws.

The ratios are much worse than anything you could imagine. SF is a nominal part of Silicon Valley and Silicon valley = dudes. Go to a club or bar and see for yourself with *your own eyes*. In any given club you *might* find 3-4 approach worthy chicks and lots of dudes surrounding them.

Daygaming is a brutal gauntlet. The girls here are just downright rude. Prepare for auto-rejection, evil eye stares, " I have a boyfriend" bs, feminism etc. Nightgaming not much better (see ratios) and quality is terrrible. You have 5 guys all after the same semi-decent chick and it's not going to end well.

@the guy who said asian chicks, yes, they do dress (and act) better than white girls but it barely makes up for their lacks (tits and ass) and they are not as freaky as white girls. So I still find myself going after white, black or latin chicks mostly.

Much better places to game. Namely NY, Austin, Dallas etc.

@ kosko I did'nt know things have changed that drastically so thanks for the 411. I still think Toronto has much more potential than SF. This is by virtue of the shitty NIMBY politics of SF which has a tendency to kill fun any and everywhere it is to be found.

[OkStudies]

(12-11-2012 01:39 AM)RoScience Wrote:  

lol you sound jaded as fuck. And pretty negative. Why would you come to the defense of Toronto (out of the blue) if you lived in the bay area most of your life? People on this board that have lived in Toronto "most of their lives" trash that place. Even Roosh said it was really bad. And he's a guy who has made hauntingly accurate travel guides (when comparing my own experiences).

To some people realism is interpreted as "negativity". Those folks need to pull their head out their ass. I live here, I know the score, so I'm just telling it like it is. I hang with some seasoned players and wings who know their shit, and they all say the same thing. Most people don't even really party here for the weekend, they just go to Vegas.

Look, I'm not "defending" Toronto. I'm just saying it's probably better or equal to San Francisco not only in terms of difficulty but quality and quantity of chicks available. It was based on my observation of a show that takes place in Toronto bars and clubs as few years back.

[rudebwoy]

Toronto sucks threads far out way San Fran threads, heck DC does not even get talked about anymore.
I watched a few episodes of that show on youtube yesterday, Kosko covered it very well. The show is filmed in 2004/2005 which is ions ago, the funny thing is that two of the nightclubs featured are no longer there, one is a condo building and the other is a parking lot which is going to be turned into a casino.
The girls that are featured are probably the entitled 30+ bitches who still feel they have a right to attract alpha males, even though some of them may have kids.
I know nothing about San Fran, I can assure you it beats Toronto. Far too many guys here working like dogs to get an average girl or you have guys that have girlfriends who basically own there balls.

[Hencredible Casanova]

I think DC and Toronto are more similar than Toronto and SF. Sorry, but I think DC is the Toronto of the US, not SF.

Having lived in both SF and DC, I simply couldn't recommend SF for gaming women. The city has many outstanding qualities that make it a pleasant place to visit (or live), but for the typical RVF member who is (hopefully) fueled with testosterone, SF simply isn't your city. It's way too laid back (think granola and tree hugging liberals). There aren't nearly enough attractive girls and most of the men there are extremely beta, if not homo. There's nothing really wrong with the women's attitudes, per se, but they are mostly average. You gotta go to Southern California for the real talent (LA, OC, SD).

As for its qualities, the food is superb, the weather is my style (never really hot but not bitterly cold either), and the pace of life is very easygoing. I never had a stressful day in SF. It's simply impossible. I also spent a lot of time outside and played in a group soccer team outdoors year-round. There's tons of options recreationally in the Bay Area and beyond (Tahoe, Yosemite, redwoods, Santa Cruz, etc). There's endless options if you like nature. There's also tons of cool festivals and events throughout the city. Always a chance to connect with friends and just chill. It's also extremely progressive and liberal. Weed is pretty much legal.

I'd have to say it's probably the freest city in the United States, and the quality of life has to be no. 1 or damn near close to it for a major city.

So, all in all, if you think there's more to life than just girls, SF is a GREAT place for you. But if you're dedicated to getting laid then I simply can't endorse it. It doesn't come close to other US cities in that department...DC and TO are better for that.

[Tex Pro]

(12-10-2012 11:49 PM)kosko Wrote:  

To add to that. KEYS TO THE VIP is also dated. The show is almost 8-10 years old and was filled at the height of Toronto nightlife and the 'Clubland' bubble. At Clubland's peak you had 75-100,000+ people partying downtown EVREY WEEKEND in a square mile radius. Toronto at that time had more clubs per capita than Miami and was only second to Vegas overall in North America. That was a generation ago it seems. I was in Toronto in those dying days and it was night and day compared to know with how easy you could game women.

So much has changed since then. For example they smoked inside on that show - you can't do that any longer.

"Keys to the VIP" originally aired from late 2006 - late 2008 (3 seasons), so really it was 4 - 6 years ago. While that is still some time ago, it isn't as long ago as you claimed.

Just had to clear that up.

[DVY]

Sf is my first city that I loved. Yes, white girls suck there. But c'mon, roll with it. U like black girls ? hit the urban clubs like 330 Ritchie or temple. Man, stop whining and go find some. There are worse cities. Theres a bunch of Latin clubs too

[WestCoast]

(12-13-2012 05:49 AM)DVY Wrote:  

Sf is my first city that I loved. Yes, white girls suck there. But c'mon, roll with it. U like black girls ? hit the urban clubs like 330 Ritchie or temple. Man, stop whining and go find some. There are worse cities. Theres a bunch of Latin clubs too

What latin clubs do you go to?

I won't say anything else regarding this topic, it's similar to the "NYC cock fest" thread. It's a city of over 1M people where cabs are used instead of cars. If you can't pull in SF look in the mirror and you're looking at the problem.

[OkStudies]

(12-13-2012 01:34 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

(12-13-2012 05:49 AM)DVY Wrote:  

Sf is my first city that I loved. Yes, white girls suck there. But c'mon, roll with it. U like black girls ? hit the urban clubs like 330 Ritchie or temple. Man, stop whining and go find some. There are worse cities. Theres a bunch of Latin clubs too

What latin clubs do you go to?

I won't say anything else regarding this topic, it's similar to the "NYC cock fest" thread. It's a city of over 1M people where cabs are used instead of cars. If you can't pull in SF look in the mirror and you're looking at the problem.

The question is "pull what"?

The quality of whatever you "pull" in SF is probably orders of magnitude lower than most other cities of comparable size and notoriety.

I'm not saying pulling is impossible in SF and the surrounding area. I've done it both online and off. It's just an overhyped location with under-whelming women who need an attitude adjustment.

Quote:

Yes, white girls suck there.

*suck* is an understatement. But most of the time, they usually have the right combination of T&A combined with a decent face (most black chicks in the bay are butterfaces and asian chicks are mostly flat) that I look for, so it's hard to find an acceptable alternative. Latin chicks are on the chubby side here. It's all around a shitty situation.

[OGNorCal707]

I don't know, for all the railing against feminism and what not on the forums, I found chicks in SF to be pretty cool overall, although I've never actually lived there. They seem to be more laid back, friendlier, more open minded, "sexually liberated", less materialistic, etc., than what you'd find in a lot of other U.S. cities. I'd agree they are definitely not as hot as LA women, but I'd be willing to bet SF is still better than a lot of "second tier" U.S. cities. Even if there are hotter women in Minneapolis or Cleveland, would you really want to live there, SF has got to be the best (overall) city in the U.S. IMO, unless the women is the one and only factor you take in consideration.

That said, if you read through the forum archives you'll read plenty of reports of guys who moved to Miami or wherever and thought they'd be swimming in hot pussy, but it doesn't always work out like that. So much of a guys' success is going to be relative, there are just too many factors to consider, (looks, game, lifestyle, bankroll, logistics, one's niche, etc.) I'm sure there are guys who have done well in LA and then flopped in SF.

Personally, my experience is very limited, I only fucked one chick in SF and she was from the East Bay, she was half white and half Mexican, and probably the ugliest chick I fucked a 5. It was at a dubstep warehouse party in the BayView it was my first time doing MDMA and I was drunk/high as shit. I will say though, if you're into that scene (which I'm not), it's pretty fucking easy to hook up at those parties, I'd imagine about 10X easier if you roll with yayo or molly.

The thing is it's all relative, shit I'm about 5 hour north of SF, just imagine how much worse it sucks up here. Every time I hit SF I feel like I'm in a wonderland, the talent increases by 100, it's a big city, so there are always more women out there, as opposed to a small town where you see the same bitches week in and week out. So SF compared to my spot is night and day, but I guess the same could be said for a guy if he lives in SF and then goes a week down in West LA.

The thing about SF is each neighborhood will provide something different, if you're a successful handsome white guy, you can kill in the Marina. If you're a DJ or artist you can kill in the Mission. ETC, ETC.

Online game I think is the equalizer, I suck at online game, my profile sucks, and I'm not one to really take a lot of pictures of myself, so I don't have a whole lot of great pics. But, I know guys who are less attractive than myself who do well with 7-quality women from OKC in SF. There are a lot of girls online in SF and they are using the sites for easy hook-ups, unlike other parts of the country where online dating is still seen as something only for losers, there are hot girls on OKC in SF.

Oh yeah, and though it's a bit out of the way there are tons of hot girls in the East Bay suburbs, Walnut Creek, Pleasanton, Livermore, etc. My ex was from Livermore and I spent some time there, I pretty much hate her and everything about her (including Livermore), but I will admit there are hot women there. Though, from my experience with chicks from the East Bay, they tend to be freaky and wild sexually, but have a whole lot of issues, and are way more materialistic and stuck up than SF chicks.