No romance without the finance..
Is a college degree really worth it?
Quote: (12-08-2012 11:31 PM)OldRich Wrote:
College? I thought we're all about location independents, passive incomes, pillaging poosies abroad and living the life? last I checked college is a direct road to a 9-5 grind.
Yup its that road to mediocracy and a long pain road at that. Good luck if you still want to go to college.
It depends though OldRich there are some jobs that pay high right out of college that can be used to create large asset bases relatively quick. For example Investment Banking in Manhatton or Biglaw in NYC, Pheonix, Boston, California. Each of those at the biggest firms pay 160k+ starting. A lot of that can be saved and reinvested. Add that up over 10 years and you've got yourself a very nice nest.
Quote: (12-09-2012 02:52 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:
It depends though OldRich there are some jobs that pay high right out of college that can be used to create large asset bases relatively quick. For example Investment Banking in Manhatton or Biglaw in NYC, Pheonix, Boston, California. Each of those at the biggest firms pay 160k+ starting. A lot of that can be saved and reinvested. Add that up over 10 years and you've got yourself a very nice nest.
the problem with biglaw and finance is that they're being oversaturated with all the banker hate the huge grow in law schools. Both careers will make a lot of money, but you're going to need to plan ahead with internships, etc. One thing I didn't realize about job hunting and looking for a sought after career is the importance of building a network until my last year. Cold calling people and meeting for informational interviews really is important, you'd be surprised at how many alumni are willing to help students interested in their career path.
But all careers that pay very well are going to be extremely challenging to be rewarded in. Its no different than becoming the VP of multinational. Its a big pyramid that you have to climb where people fall off at each level. Personally, it worked out for me so I'm not one to complain. Law isn't oversaturated at all in Canada. But its drastically more difficult to receive acceptance here than in the US. Average GPA at the weakest schools usually are in the 3.7 range. Average LSAT being in the 160+ range. Theres not really a lot of margin for error like in the US. Also a lot less graduates. Investment banking admittedly is a different story. I'd say thats far more difficult to gain access to in Canada than the US upon b-school graduation. Also, has far lower starting compensation packages.
The reality is if you wan't to make really good money by really good money I'll say 200k+ because thats about top 1 percentile and rooshers should be striving to be the best in all aspects, you need a sought after degree and / or a successful business.
A lot of people for example Samseau in this case says well would you rather 40k capital or a 40k college degree. 40k in capital? Thats great but what are you going to do with it at 18. You can work and make money but I know for one thing I certainly wouldn't have been capable of starting or creating a remotely successful business at that age. I'd have lost it all in less than a year for sure.
The reality is if you wan't to make really good money by really good money I'll say 200k+ because thats about top 1 percentile and rooshers should be striving to be the best in all aspects, you need a sought after degree and / or a successful business.
A lot of people for example Samseau in this case says well would you rather 40k capital or a 40k college degree. 40k in capital? Thats great but what are you going to do with it at 18. You can work and make money but I know for one thing I certainly wouldn't have been capable of starting or creating a remotely successful business at that age. I'd have lost it all in less than a year for sure.
While cats struggle to make it in biglaw, fortune 500 corporate ladder climbing, medicine, there are hustler types from the 3rd world that came to America & pull 6 figs running operations such as gas stations & liquor stores (often times in the hood). But I believe the next frontier for hustlers is making it in the dot com world & on the Internet whether your product is tangible or intangible. Roosh is a prime example. He is truly living the dream in every sense.
But what Roosh is doing is also completely replicable through 10 years of corporate law or IBanking sacrifice. After that you can live off substantial investments and dividends.
Also for immigrant who has success through a business. Do you realize how many fail. Its drastically and I mean drastically higher. I have quite a few Cuban friends who have emmigrated to Miami expecting it to be a dream come true only to making less than a 1000 bucks a month.
Also for immigrant who has success through a business. Do you realize how many fail. Its drastically and I mean drastically higher. I have quite a few Cuban friends who have emmigrated to Miami expecting it to be a dream come true only to making less than a 1000 bucks a month.
Lavidaloca, you're right, nothing comes without effort, no disagreements there.
However is in relation to the OP of this thread, I feel that one thing that should be reiterated is that going to a top tier institution gives you a extremely powerful network to draw from. Become really social at school, join a lot of clubs, meet people, join a fraternity, etc. Not only does it help with game and getting laid but it benefits you in life. College gives you a huge advantage in social capital if you go there that you can take advantage of, just don't neglect your grades.
However is in relation to the OP of this thread, I feel that one thing that should be reiterated is that going to a top tier institution gives you a extremely powerful network to draw from. Become really social at school, join a lot of clubs, meet people, join a fraternity, etc. Not only does it help with game and getting laid but it benefits you in life. College gives you a huge advantage in social capital if you go there that you can take advantage of, just don't neglect your grades.
One thing that should be said is just about any guy who makes it into big law or ibanking CAN save substantial amounts of money.
VERY FEW guys who are writers can save money.
The difference is that the guys who go into high paying careers almost always readjust there lifestyles. they buy the new m3 instead of buying a used vehicle. Instead of buying land and building a place they buy a new home in a new subdivision etc. So they never end up saving and end up working their asses off until they are in their 60s and by then they are blowing arteries from all the stress and junk they've put in their systems that gives them temporary relief.
Going to a good school assuming OP is american is very very important if he wants to join a company. If he wants to make a business its far less important. the most successful guys I know went to a mediocre cali school that no one would be bragging about going to. Heck most people wouldn't put it on their resume.
VERY FEW guys who are writers can save money.
The difference is that the guys who go into high paying careers almost always readjust there lifestyles. they buy the new m3 instead of buying a used vehicle. Instead of buying land and building a place they buy a new home in a new subdivision etc. So they never end up saving and end up working their asses off until they are in their 60s and by then they are blowing arteries from all the stress and junk they've put in their systems that gives them temporary relief.
Going to a good school assuming OP is american is very very important if he wants to join a company. If he wants to make a business its far less important. the most successful guys I know went to a mediocre cali school that no one would be bragging about going to. Heck most people wouldn't put it on their resume.
I'm surprised more guys aren't going into dentistry. The dentists I know make absolute bank and they work great hours. Plus its a business you can actually sell unlike a small legal practice.
lavidaloca, you mentioned 2 of the most stress inducing career there is. There is a reason why these industry are high paying. If you like looking into people's mouth all day then great but going into a career for money is a recipe for a miserable life.
Quote: (12-09-2012 04:16 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
Quote: (12-08-2012 11:31 PM)OldRich Wrote:
College? I thought we're all about location independents, passive incomes, pillaging poosies abroad and living the life? last I checked college is a direct road to a 9-5 grind.
CAN'T ANY OF YOU THINK ABOUT THE COLLEGE WOMEN?
sheesh.
WIA
WIA, I made my fortune on the net by the time I turn 21. I went to college for some silly program like psychology and arts just to experience the college life. I had no intention of getting a degree. I almost got kicked out for bad grades but I put in the time to do OK to stick around. I did it for 2 years.
Looking back, it was a mistake staying in school that long. I was young and stupid and didn't know what to do with my money and time. The time I wasted trying to maintain my grade to stay was beyond retarded. I could have slayed college girls 3 times over by making more money and spend it wisely.
location independence is a great idea. but very difficult to apply without base capital. and when I say that I refer to its very difficult to do without already having capital made from traditional work. How many guys who have joined this forum have gone from working a 9-5 to truly location independent. I can think of maybe 1 or 2 people despite a vast amount trying to do online marketing and various forms of internet business. I still think the best way to create long term money and be location independent is through hard work and sacrifice and building a successful small professional business. But thats me.
Choosing a career for money is silly yes. But as a dentist a lot of these guys are pulling 500+k a year after several years of experience. A few years of that and you can be location independent and living on dividends / investments while sipping pina coladas in your destination of choice if you continue to live conservatively and cut expenses to a college student like level.
The reality is 90+% of people are going to be unhappy with there work. Do you think the majority of trades men like there work. Nope. Majority of business men nope. Majority of actors hell probably not. Majority of football players, hell probably not them either. Its work. Thankfully I enjoy learning and I view my career as something which provides me with many intellectual pursuits as well as financial freedom. I can't ask for more than that. I enjoy it.
Choosing a career for money is silly yes. But as a dentist a lot of these guys are pulling 500+k a year after several years of experience. A few years of that and you can be location independent and living on dividends / investments while sipping pina coladas in your destination of choice if you continue to live conservatively and cut expenses to a college student like level.
The reality is 90+% of people are going to be unhappy with there work. Do you think the majority of trades men like there work. Nope. Majority of business men nope. Majority of actors hell probably not. Majority of football players, hell probably not them either. Its work. Thankfully I enjoy learning and I view my career as something which provides me with many intellectual pursuits as well as financial freedom. I can't ask for more than that. I enjoy it.
Quote:Quote:
location independence is a great idea. but very difficult to apply without base capital. and when I say that I refer to its very difficult to do without already having capital made from traditional work. How many guys who have joined this forum have gone from working a 9-5 to truly location independent. I can think of maybe 1 or 2 people despite a vast amount trying to do online marketing and various forms of internet business. I still think the best way to create long term money and be location independent is through hard work and sacrifice and building a successful small professional business. But thats me.
I agree with hard work and sacrifice but unfortunately the rest is just not true. First off, you don't need a lot of capital to start a small business. All you really need is a computer, internet and 50 bucks a month for domain and hosting. Second, the people that failed online business is NOT because of low capital but of lazy and a lack of discipline.
Quote:Quote:
Choosing a career for money is silly yes. But as a dentist a lot of these guys are pulling 500+k a year after several years of experience. A few years of that and you can be location independent and living on dividends / investments while sipping pina coladas in your destination of choice if you continue to live conservatively and cut expenses to a college student like level.
Life waits for no one and death could come to you at any time. Consider yourself lucky to be alive and in good health. A lot of people does not have the luck, some get sick with life threatening illness, some get hit by a car by crossing the street and ends up on the wheelchair. I'm saying, a lot can happen between now till you save up enough money waiting for something that's not promised, so you could live happily ever after.
Quote:Quote:
The reality is 90+% of people are going to be unhappy with there work. Do you think the majority of trades men like there work. Nope. Majority of business men nope. Majority of actors hell probably not. Majority of football players, hell probably not them either. Its work. Thankfully I enjoy learning and I view my career as something which provides me with many intellectual pursuits as well as financial freedom. I can't ask for more than that. I enjoy it.
Not sure where you're going with this. Just because 90% of people are not happy with their career does not mean you have to live like them. 90% of people are also blue pill.
Quote: (12-09-2012 04:32 AM)OldRich Wrote:
WIA, I made my fortune on the net by the time I turn 21. I went to college for some silly program like psychology and arts just to experience the college life. I had no intention of getting a degree. I almost got kicked out for bad grades but I put in the time to do OK to stick around. I did it for 2 years.
Looking back, it was a mistake staying in school that long. I was young and stupid and didn't know what to do with my money and time. The time I wasted trying to maintain my grade to stay was beyond retarded. I could have slayed college girls 3 times over by making more money and spend it wisely.
Do you think you are the norm?
If most people follow your example will they have the success you have?
And we'll just have to disagree about access to college chicks by being a student versus not being a student.
WIA
Quote: (12-09-2012 05:46 AM)OldRich Wrote:
I agree with hard work and sacrifice but unfortunately the rest is just not true. First off, you don't need a lot of capital to start a small business. All you really need is a computer, internet and 50 bucks a month for domain and hosting. Second, the people that failed online business is NOT because of low capital but of lazy and a lack of discipline.
What about living expenses?
Quote: (12-09-2012 04:46 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:
The reality is 90+% of people are going to be unhappy with there work. Do you think the majority of trades men like there work. Nope. Majority of business men nope. Majority of actors hell probably not. Majority of football players, hell probably not them either. Its work.
Definitely true that success depends partly on being able to say this sucks, but it's my job and then muddle through the bullshit parts of your day. But there's a huge difference between putting up with the bullshit 15 percent of the time--all jobs require some bullshit--and simply resigning yourself to a job you absolutely hate because fuck it, everyone hates their job.
Cause actually, not everyone hates their job. And in fact, the path to the jobs that don't suck is made immensely easier by all the people who give up and settle for the 100% bullshit jobs. That's not to say it's easy, just much easier than if those legions of office drones were also trying to be entrepreneurs, or artists, or whatever else you have in mind.
As for college, go once you've decided on a realistic career, and earn a degree that feeds into it. If you're straight out of high school and don't know what you want to do, I advise fucking around for a few years and figuring it out. The people who get buried in insurmountable debt are the ones who go in expecting to figure out their plans during college, and then their epiphany never comes and they wind up with a useless degree, or a terrible GPA on account of they had no motivation to work, or both.
I wouldn't have gone down the path I am on if it wasn't for college. We are our experiences and college taught me a lot. I quit college and worked full time for several years. I had a blast but I also worked 2 jobs to make enough to survive. I ended up going back to school and got two degrees. The first I had already started so I ended up finishing while the second I got into strictly for the money. I ended up being really good at the second and turned it into consulting and finally my own business (not consulting).
Sometimes the journey is more important than the destination.
Too many kids go through the motions because they think that is what they are suppose to do. Be smart and school can be a good investment.
Sometimes the journey is more important than the destination.
Too many kids go through the motions because they think that is what they are suppose to do. Be smart and school can be a good investment.
I'd be careful about ROTC. There is no such thing as a free lunch. You have been warned.
Quote: (12-08-2012 11:11 AM)HollowEarth Wrote:
I'm taking about a college degree in a specialized hard science field from at least a good institution. Do you HAVE to have a college degree to make it in life or at least be successful, or does being successful in life boils down to really your personality, looks, and/or connections etc etc etc. I have been told and drilled into my head that without any sort of degree from an upper tier educational institution, you are a nobody or won't get anywhere in life.
While the importance of a degree seems to be a uniquely American obsession, if you're an American planning to work in America, you really have no choice bro. In the states, the pro's far outweigh the con's. Unless you come from money, have a family member that will give you a guarenteed job, or are really good at day trading at the age of 18, you have to go to college.
If you really don't want student loans to break you, join the service after college or during college. I did that, have my degree and have no loans to pay off. Of course, service is service, so you'll be required to do your part. But I guess that's the way it goes. The world best college education coming cheap and uneccesary to pay back in a reasonable time no longer exists.
The problem with joining the military to pay for college is that people get to shoot at you. For real. You get to shoot back too.
I'm a little bitter towards college because of how they forced it down my throat all of middle school and high school. I always knew it wasn't for me, at least not immediately after high school. I ended up in the Air Force at 19 with a pretty good job that I knew I could make 50k+ on the outside with.
While in the AF I had a few buddies graduate college and most suddenly thought they accomplished the impossible. Bragging about their "60k degrees" and making 21$ an hour, a fair amount in small town West Virginia. The bitter attitude I had towards college grew exponentially at this point.
So After 6 years in the AF I got out in early 2010 and spent the following 2 full years fucking off. Drinking, traveling, and DNA tests. In early 2012 I got my first job doing what I had done in the AF.... I clear ~2,000$ a week and which will lead to CLEARING over 100k this year on 40 hours a week in my first ever real job. All of the friends I had who thought their degree made them superior have been humbled.
So, because of my buddies and the force feeding I steered clear of college but it certainly can increase your value. I have the GI bill to use at my leisure and I may very well do so if I choose to take a break from working(I save a ton % wise) or maybe use it to study abroad. Might even do it to abuse the student loan money.
What is it Doug Casey says? Something alone the lines of "college is a misallocation of 4 years". I think he was referring to going immediately after high school, for most people, obviously... not all.
While in the AF I had a few buddies graduate college and most suddenly thought they accomplished the impossible. Bragging about their "60k degrees" and making 21$ an hour, a fair amount in small town West Virginia. The bitter attitude I had towards college grew exponentially at this point.
So After 6 years in the AF I got out in early 2010 and spent the following 2 full years fucking off. Drinking, traveling, and DNA tests. In early 2012 I got my first job doing what I had done in the AF.... I clear ~2,000$ a week and which will lead to CLEARING over 100k this year on 40 hours a week in my first ever real job. All of the friends I had who thought their degree made them superior have been humbled.
So, because of my buddies and the force feeding I steered clear of college but it certainly can increase your value. I have the GI bill to use at my leisure and I may very well do so if I choose to take a break from working(I save a ton % wise) or maybe use it to study abroad. Might even do it to abuse the student loan money.
What is it Doug Casey says? Something alone the lines of "college is a misallocation of 4 years". I think he was referring to going immediately after high school, for most people, obviously... not all.
Quote: (12-09-2012 01:58 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:
The problem with joining the military to pay for college is that people get to shoot at you. For real. You get to shoot back too.
lol this is ridiculous. Anybody who has enough intelligence to graduate college(not much) can score high enough to get a job that doesn't require being shot at.... a lot depends on their personal choice.
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