[OSL]

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ADVANTAGES OF ADVANCED DEGREES ACQUIRED ABROAD


Tuition for undergraduate education and masters degrees are significantly cheaper abroad.

While a degree from Taiwan National University or Chulalangkorn University (BKK) might not hold the pedigree one might get from UCLA in America, if you go to university abroad you will have the following advantages:

-Rockstar status for being a full time foreign student, especially in places like Manila/Taiwan/China/Colombia/Peru

-Potential full scholarships

-Learn a foreign language

-Build a juggernaut network abroad

-Get funneled into high tier local jobs and be able to accumulate work experience through part time jobs and internships - your student visa will enable you to not have to worry about the visa shuffle

-Strike business partnerships with elites



Think about it. Which one of these two people do you think has more street smarts, value as a global citizen, and more exciting job prospects?


(THESE PROFILES ARE BASED ON REAL PEOPLE I KNOW)



Mark Johnson - Tufts University graduate, English major, 3.3 GPA - Boston - only speaks English, has no "hard skills" - assumed that the job market would be open because of a good bachelors. Graduates from Tufts University and works at Abercrombie and Fitch, hoping for the job market will improve. Has 90,000 dollars in debt.



James Jones - Taiwan National University graduate - East Asian Medicine major, dual degree with Mandarin Chinese - lives in Taipei, is now fluent in Mandarin and English. Received a scholarship and only has 5,000 dollars in debt.

Due to his unique experience, James is now prototyping an herbal blood pressure relief remedy to manufacture in Taiwan/China and sell in Canada and Australia. Due to being one of the few foreign people full time at TNU, he networks with the medical department and gets a well-known professor in the health field to endorse his product and run tests in laboratories.

Due to his abilities in graphic design that he built over the past few years, he is able to create great wordpress sites and ecommerce platforms for venture ideas he has. Due to being at the most elite local university, he is able to network with Taipei's elites and raise an angel investment of $40K USD to get his business idea off the ground and into production.

While he has been at NTU he has been partying with rich Taiwanese kids who grew up in California and have connections in mainland China. He gets in touch with B level celebrities through the clubbing circuit and gets a good deal on a sponsorship. Since Taipei is a 2 hour flight from Shanghai, he spends a lot of time traveling between these two cities and building connections that will last him a lifetime.

The freelance graphic design business he has been running for 2 years during undergrad is running nearly on autopilot because he's built a brand as "Western Quality Design for Asian Prices" and has time to take risks to build other ventures and brand, such as the blood pressure remedy he invented and patented. He outsources this work to Taiwan National University design students who intern for him for pennies on the dollar.

James Jones dates fashion models in Taipei, Shanghai, and Hong Kong. He lives a very comfortable lifestyle for 2200 dollars in Taipei while running these ventures.

He occasionally sees the NYTimes headlines about the sorry state of the US job market. He momentarily feels a sense of sorrow for his friends back home and relief that he made this international career move.

Then he gets on a skype call with his distributor in Shenzhen. There is money to be made, after all, and time can't be wasted feeling bad for anyone else.



Who has a better future? I'd put my money on the Taiwan guy.






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[Rah]

Interesting concept. I wish I had gone this route. Is a degree from a state level or no-name private university in the U.S. worth more than one from these foreign schools? Maybe, on paper. Are they worth 5x+ more? There's no way. And what are the opportunities awaiting graduates of mediocre Western universities? Mediocre white collar jobs that many will not be able to get.

If you can't get into a top Western university, I think YMG's idea is smarter than saddling on the debt at mid-tier Western universities for questionable opportunities.

[SelfPaid]

Realy interresting Alternative Looks like Life Experience and Connections get you much closer to you're Goals than just doing what everybody else does. Europe and America still have some advantages when it Comes to know how that you can implement in other countries.

A friend of my Family is a German entrepreneur who Exports Generators to Chile and Hase done so for over 3 Decades now. There is still Money to be made internationaly if you think outside the Box.
Great Post

[elguapo8]

Definitely can see that as a good option, but if you're in a special situation or already close to graduating for a top university that simply isn't an option. What IS an option, is doing a semester abroad. I can't say enough about the amount I learned about myself, women as a species (opposed to just traits of American women), and society in general. If you go to a four year US university or college and you don't take advantage of this you're making a mistake.

[Teddykgb]

Is the school work any easier while studying abroad?

Would your bachelors degree from some other country still be recognized in the usa?

[Art Pimp]

Obviously, a BA in English isn't going to get anyone very far at this point (I have one and am working on a Master's in a somewhat related field). However, these two examples are just a ridiculous comparison. It's a good example vs. a bad example and the same format could be done for anything.

#1) Fucked a 6.5 and remained disease free

#2) Fucked a 6.5 and got HIV and Herpes

Which 6.5 would you fuck?

If anyone is working on/already has a BA in English, I suggest you arm yourself with foreign languages along the way (as much of the forum would recommend anyway).

[trey]

YMG, this is a good post on this topic as usual. However, I would be careful with recommending this path. If you are sure you want to build your career in X country, acquiring a degree there could be great for all the reasons you mention. However, having a US degree (from a place like UCLA or Tufts, for example) still goes a long way in the eyes of individuals (and to a less important extent, companies) in all the countries abroad you mentioned. The same is not usually said for foreign degrees in the US, should the person want to return.

What I'd recommend over this is a good US degree (ie sciences, math, engineering, economics - no fluffy stuff) with a 1 year study abroad to the country/city you want, and working internships while you study (important) OR doing multiple summer internships in the country/city over your 4 year degree. In either case, if you hustle you'll still get all the benefits: network building, language skills, and opportunities post-graduation. (There are many ways to tweak this - you could extend your 1 year exchange program into a year off of studies to work, or whatever - the point is, get that US degree asset AND the international experience.) Bonus: for the periods of the year when you're stuck studying on your US campus, make friends with the international students from your target city/country - THEY will often be very connected in your target city, usually even better than the students at the elite local universities in X country. It won't be hard to find them - go to your school's library. (Seriously, though, check out your school's Chinese/Thai/Brazilian/whatever student clubs, look for their intramural sports teams, take a XYZ Country Studies/history class, etc.)

On the cost/debt: If you hustle (scholarships, campus jobs, living somewhat frugally), you can graduate from an undergrad in the states with no/little debt; or, depending on what you get out of it, some debt could be OK - just make sure you squeeze that 4-year window for everything it's worth. (Also, make sure any debt is in USD, heh.)

Last footnote: depending on your field and objectives, a master's or MBA in your target city/country is something that serves all the same functions described above, on a slightly different level. Not quite the same discussion though because the 4-year undergrad period presents a broader set of hustling opportunities than a more specialized master's down the road, but something to think about.

[OSL]

Yes, Trey pointed out everything that I should have laid out as caveats in my original post.

-US degrees at the level of Tufts/PennState will still always hold cache internationally over TaiwanNUiv/Chulalangkorn

-If you take this route, you need to be SURE you want to be committed to that country or the region

-Frugal US education is still possible

-A masters in this context is a more practical option. In fact, this is precisely what I did, in Europe/China

[lavidaloca]

I don't quite believe the whole lives on 2200 a month and dates fashion models. Unless we are talking model mayhem type girls who are essentially wanna be models.

Nor do I believe one gets rock star status by studying abroad. I think thats an illusion like that being 6 foot and white = instant pussy in Japan. Would it help, yes.

How much is one really going to make afterwards. My grand total education tuition expenses after 7 years is roughly 80k. But I also have a 6 figure job that escalates into the mid 6-figures pretty quick. I don't think I could've done that going to school in Asia or some other far off place.

It's a wonder more Americans don't go to university in Canada where its way cheaper. I do agree that quality American schools are absurdly over priced and will not benefit the bulk of students anywhere near the amount it should. There was a study on mid-career Harvard students. in their mid to late 40s and the average salary was only low 100s. Not exactly impressive for what the world views as the most elite education available.

I imagine the lifestyle would be far better in Asia than in North America and this holds SIGNIFICANT VALUE. Lifestyle here in my opinion sucks. We live to work when we should be working to live.

[tomhagen]

edit

[Alpharius]

Whoa, lookout. First time post, been lurking for a while. I was waiting to jump in on a thread that I could actually contribute to.

I went to a mid-ranked private college and decided to study abroad after a bad breakup. I ended up traveling to some of the poorest areas of Central America and ended up meeting a lot of important officials. I spent just about half a year in Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica. Before I had even finished my time abroad I had already convinced my school to PAY ME to go back and do research that summer, while I enjoyed what I was studying I had a completely different career in mind and really just enjoyed living in the tropics. However my school thought I was more than just a slacker looking to score more time at the beach and wild stories to tell. They sent me as a student representative on behalf of the school to meet important people, I have pictures of myself meeting with Nobel Prize winners from different categories, had the president of my university come to a forum I was presenting at because he wanted to meet me, and was sent to represent the undergrad students at a dinner where I sat directly across from the former prime minister of Norway. Along the way I met tons of professors, authors, entrepreneurs and business managers. I had connection opportunities most students only dream of.

I totally squandered the opportunities I had because I didn't recognize them. I left with my degree and started a career in a field where I had no contacts, and little chance of success. Two years after graduation I was making just as much money as I had been during school and hated my life. Finally a year ago I started getting my shit together and realized the huge mistake I had made. Seeking to make up for lost time, I moved to China after getting an entry level job here.

It all started out with me deciding to go somewhere off the beaten path. Despite the insane success I had in school because of my willingness to adventure, none of my friends even bothered to get a passport.

Going out on a limb definitely has its advantages and sets you apart from the typical student. The disadvantages are that some of my best stories are terrifying near death experiences that left me on the verge of absolute panic and tears again and again (but those are the types of stories that people absolutely love to hear, go figure). If anyone would like any specific information on what to look for in a foreign university or a study abroad program, please feel free to ask!

[OSL]

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As Art Pimp and LaVidaLoca mentioned, the situation I laid out is a bit too specific to a unique individual I know. I can understand their reactions and why it seems like an exaggeration. I do know someone with a profile nearly identical to this, and I put this thread up to prove a point about the possibility of what's out there.

I'm aware that not every guy is going to become a rockstar. I'm aware that not every guy is going to become wildly successful simply by booking a flight to Singapore and hoping for the best.

A lot of the points and threads I raise on RVF are written on a whim when I have a bit of inspiration from a specific successful individual I hear about or a specific success story. I like to start threads with the idea of "wouldn't it be cool if I shared this story and it inspired someone with new ideas within the context of their own lives..."

Unfortunately, more often than not, it descends into an unpleasant conversation along the lines of "well clearly you are not taking into account people who fit this description....." or something like "....oh that would never work in this situation...."

As a caveat, you should take everything I write with a grain of salt.


I took a long hiatus from RVF because I became weary of getting into forum squabbles about points I've made about this general topic. Nothing I write is perfect or will apply to 100% of possible candidates in a perfect universe - I am aware of that - I write these posts with the goal in mind of positively affecting a few guys out there who might fit that profile.

Anyway, the mental energy and time I've spent on these two threads today, alone, has been too much. Likewise, the mental energy and time I've spent dealing with negativity related to other topics I've started has distracted me from the work I am doing to improve my own life.

Good luck out there everyone, I sincerely hope that this can help you out. Even the people who have outright been unpleasant to me - I hope that maybe you someday gain some value from anything I've written, and I mean it sincerely.

Likewise, if there is anything I've said that seemed unpleasant, arrogant, or condescending, I regret it and apologize if you somehow took it personally. I, as we often do, lose a lot of decency when we are communicating through text instead of in real life.

On that note, I gotta get back to work now.

Good luck fellas.



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[Bad Hussar]

Studying abroad can be useful, but you definitely want to get work experience in more than just your home country. The world is so interconnected, people from all countries, even big powerful ones like the US, will need to understand the world at large to move ahead.

If I get into a position of hiring people for my own enterprise, working experience in multiple countries will be very big +.

[poutsara]

just do it.

[OSL]

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Might be a bit premature for me to be bringing this up, but I'm in touch with the Asia expansion of some US universities' setting up campuses abroad that will be like foreign satellite campuses. The satellite campus locations in this case are in Beijing and Singapore specifically.

Qatar and Dubai also seem to be popular destinations for some other schools.

I hated this trend when I first heard of it. Now I love it.

I think this could be an interesting middle ground - particularly if "NYU Shanghai" has significantly cheaper tuition than "NYU Manhattan". We'll see how this progresses.

All the benefits of an extended study abroad experience with a lower local cost of living - and potentially lower tuition. To attract a range of international students to satellite campuses, universities might have to offer lower tuition - particularly if they are operating in places like Beijing.

Are you ready for the McYales and McGeorgetowns?



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[OSL]

Certainly not without its troubles though:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20...22689.html

[Alpharius]

(12-06-2012 07:19 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

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Might be a bit premature for me to be bringing this up, but I'm in touch with the Asia expansion of some US universities' setting up campuses abroad that will be like foreign satellite campuses. The satellite campus locations in this case are in Beijing and Singapore specifically.

Qatar and Dubai also seem to be popular destinations for some other schools.

I hated this trend when I first heard of it. Now I love it.

I think this could be an interesting middle ground - particularly if "NYU Shanghai" has significantly cheaper tuition than "NYU Manhattan". We'll see how this progresses.

All the benefits of an extended study abroad experience with a lower local cost of living - and potentially lower tuition. To attract a range of international students to satellite campuses, universities might have to offer lower tuition - particularly if they are operating in places like Beijing.

Are you ready for the McYales and McGeorgetowns?



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That actually sounds like a really awesome idea. A great chance for 2nd tier academics to make a name for themselves, and for more adventurous students from the States to really immerse themselves in a different culture.

Would classes be taught in English?

[Wreckingball]

US citizens studying abroad?

Come to Europe. Some countries have no fees, others have small fees. Education is well regarded. Ability to travel throughout Europe.

[Brosemite]

If you are a American student who's stuck in middle of nowhere one horse town with no ties to other credible big US markets, I'd be all in on going abroad to learn another language & networking abroad as this is an excellent idea.

If you are however connected to good markets, opportunities, and universities within the US, it would still be a great idea to spend at least a semester or full year abroad if you think you will like your experiences but I would also stress the importance of networking domestically as well! North American universities of course bode VERY well for people seeking work abroad in the future too.

If you want to spend a semester or two abroad, also realize you can do so without getting endorsed by an American university but also unfortunately means you won't get "North American" college credit for it too. I would recommend students skip the local endorsement, because you would have to pay fees locally and abroad. You might not get recognized "North American university wise," but picking a good university/language institution abroad that has good record keeping/certifications means you still get to put your credentials on your portfolio either way. Why pay an American university and increased fees abroad for advanced Spanish study to be surrounded by other English speakers, when you can find exponentially better/cheaper institutions that give you a better bang for buck and more of a cultural experience? If you want the official "minor/major" in Spanish, just seriously come back to the US university to complete the coursework there (even more reinforcement of language/knowledge) in addition to the immersion & workshops you will have had overseas.

[DVY]

If you are young, smart and resourceful, check out Mongolia. This country is terrible for living, lifestyle is horrible, but there is silly money to be made. Its a country that seriously imports everything!!!! This country is on a massive upswing. Last summer, when I went, business was booming. The locals I knew were telling me how in the last 5 years, silly money has been made. I would estimate another 10 years of ridiculous wealth being created, then it taper-ing down when the massive foreign influx of investment slows.

There are lots of students like this floating around Taipei, Beijing, Korea, Dubai, Spain, etc etc. TBH, 2 grand/month is plenty in Taipei. You can rent a decent studio/apartment for 300 dollars/month. Food is 1-2 dollars/meal. Clothes are cheap. Transport is via MRT (high-speed underground train). 2,200 is def. doable. I was in taipei for 6 days, and had an absolute ball. Spent 400 bucks excluding hotel. This could have been easily 200 buxs (I just bought anything my little heart desired, food/drink/taxi/musuems) Taxis are super cheap (prolly 1/4 the price of US).

[redneckpunk]

These school partnerships already exist and have existed for years.

The ones that I know already exist:

Tsinghua and MIT IMBA program in Beijing
China Europe International Business School (CEIBS) MBA in Shanghai
Fudan Uni and MIT Sloan MBA in Shanghai
Nanjing University and John Hopkins Advanced International Studies

All of these have been around for awhile, hell the one in Nanjing was started in the 80's.

Obviously they are all graduate schools, but they all have classes in English, western teachers, are recognized with proper accredations (AACSB or Equis, etc), cheaper tuitions, etc.

There are many more partnerships in tier 2 cities, the newer ones don't have the best reputations, it takes awhile to get it right. The ones above are considered top 50 programs in the world I believe, or some of them are.

[the_conductor]

Also Shanghai Jiao Tong University and University of Michigan for undergraduate + graduate engineering.

[redneckpunk]

Back to School: Guide to Foreign Universities with Programs in China

http://www.echinacities.com/expat-corner...grams.html

comments at the end are mostly negative, so for those interested do your research.

FYI need Mandarin for the Nanjing John Hopkins school, a friend of mine is studying there/just finished there. Knew a guy who after a few years in China and recieving a "real" job there after working his way up went to CEIBS. CEIBS guy is doing well although he is a douchebag, Nanjing guy I'm not sure.

Possibly works best for guys that have had boots on the ground in China for years and are now pursuing graduate degrees either part-time or fulltime.