[presidentcarter]

The US State Department (Foreign Office) has estimated how long it takes a native English speaker to learn a foreign language:

Category 1A: 600 Class Hours
Examples: French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese

Category 1B: 900 Class Hours
Examples: German, Indonesian, Swahili

Category 2: 1100 Class Hours
Examples: Hebrew, Hindi, Persian, Russian, Thai, Vietnamese

Category 3: 2200 Class Hours
Examples: Arabic, Japanese, Korean, Mandarin Chinese

[Kitsune]

I sort of agree with the categories, but not really. I agree in principle at least.

The hours it takes to learn is completely dependent on a variety of things, not the least of which is 'what is it to speak a language?'

Even if you've got a standard, say, B2 or C1, there are a huge amount of variables: Understanding of culture, ability to express verbally in any language, memory abilities for vocabulary and listening skills.

Some people can watch a film in English and have memorised the lines totally by one viewing. They'll find it a lot easier to comprehensively pick up a sentence structure than those that can't. Some people have photographic memories and can memorise huge vocab lists in one go. Some people innately have an ability to put complex subjects succinctly with simple terms, and some don't. These all apply to second languages as much as primary languages.

Giving an hourly value is an oversimplification which is probably actually designed so some lobbying body gets more money.

[NuMbEr7]

[Sonsowey]

(11-23-2012 05:19 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

Giving an hourly value is an oversimplification which is probably actually designed so some lobbying body gets more money.

The hourly value there was determined by the Foreign Service Institute, which trains State Department staff in foreign languages so that they are able to work and operate in foreign countries. They do not train people only to the level of social chit-chat, these people are trained to a level of fluency where they can maneuver government documents and complete all the functions of their professional life in a foreign language. A pretty high level indeed.

The hour values are averages, discovered over many years time. They are a pretty damn good guide. Of course, this is with FSI training, their language instructors are generally quite good.

So it's an average guide to the amount of time it takes to learn with quality language instruction.

Of course, any human being can learn any language as long as you have normal mental function. If you want to learn Korean or Thai, just go for it, don't let anything dissuade you. If you dedicate yourself, you will learn it.

Really the most important thing is learning a language you're actually interested in. If you have no interest in French and love Japanese culture, it won't be easier to learn French, because nothing is motivating you.

[freshcream]

Well.... From my experience.

It took me one month to be OK in speaking spanish with locals.

Duolingo.com 30 hours
Spanish class 20 hours
Banging a local chick xx hours in 6 weeks.

From nothing to decent in two months is incredible for most people.

Helps to have an offline dictionary on your phone too.

[Tony Snow25]

I'm learning Mandarin now but it is a very hard language. I feel like you need to master the tones before you really start making good progress. My Mandarin is pretty shitty since I haven't been studying that hard. For native English speakers it's not that difficult to learn Spanish or Portuguese since a lot of words are similar and even grammar concepts are similar.

[British Dude]

(11-23-2012 04:14 PM)freshcream Wrote:  

Well.... From my experience.

It took me one month to be OK in speaking spanish with locals.

Duolingo.com 30 hours
Spanish class 20 hours
Banging a local chick xx hours in 6 weeks.

From nothing to decent in two months is incredible for most people.

Helps to have an offline dictionary on your phone too.

how does Duolingo work for you? Do you reckon its way better than Pimsleur & Rosetta?

[RichieP]

Duolingo = good way that core 1000 words under your belt in 2-3 months in a fun way, just doing it in your spare time.

Each package trains different things. Pimsleur engrains survival phrases, which while very limited, give you alot of confidence on the ground because they just come to you automatically. Having that confidence to get some words out, and the safety net of survival phrases, cannot be underestimated. That said 500 words in 3 months is too slow, and it's quite effortful I find.

Rosetta stone is shit by all accounts from what I've read. Something like Assimil or Living Language is usually alot better. You'll get way more grammar, vocab and listening skills.

Also, depending on the language, Michel Thomas course is great for quickly getting the grammar in your brain, without studying too hard, in 8 or so hours. Good thing to do at the start of your studies.

It also all depends on the language. Alot of great info on all this over on how-to-learn-any-language.com - pays to browse there for the best courses for your chosen language IMO.

Also from what I've read, FSI rankings are relatively accurate - they get right which are harder, and which are easier, for native english speakers. But dont pay too much heed to their absolute number of hours. Their methods ocme from the 1950s, learning techniques have moved on since.

[pobreinvestidor]

(11-23-2012 03:45 AM)presidentcarter Wrote:  

The US State Department (Foreign Office) has estimated how long it takes a native English speaker to learn a foreign language:

Category 1A: 600 Class Hours
Examples: French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese

Category 1B: 900 Class Hours
Examples: German, Indonesian, Swahili

Category 2: 1100 Class Hours
Examples: Hebrew, Hindi, Persian, Russian, Thai, Vietnamese

Category 3: 2200 Class Hours
Examples: Arabic, Japanese, Korean, Mandarin Chinese

I think these are very accurate average numbers, for people from western countries.
Taking an intensive course of 20hrs/week means Cat. 1A is achievable within 30 weeks, 1B with 45, Cat 2 with 1 year and Cat 3 requires 2 years to speak well.

I did those intensive courses for two languages and my numbers are almost identical to these

[Technics]

Which 2 languages? And when you refer to "those intensive courses", do you mean the FSO courses?

(11-24-2012 09:26 PM)pobreinvestidor Wrote:  

I did those intensive courses for two languages and my numbers are almost identical to these

[pobreinvestidor]

(11-24-2012 11:31 PM)Technics Wrote:  

Which 2 languages? And when you refer to "those intensive courses", do you mean the FSO courses?

(11-24-2012 09:26 PM)pobreinvestidor Wrote:  

I did those intensive courses for two languages and my numbers are almost identical to these

I did chinese and german, 20 hours per week of class time at local universities...