[ikemen]

Gentleman,

Have done some soul searching over the last few weeks and have made a big decision - to move to Ottawa!
Embroiled in the "Toronto Sucks" crapstorm as soon as I arrived, I nonetheless forced myself to make a fist of it.

However despite some fun times and meeting some cool people, nothing quite clicked - from jobs, apartments, women and lifestyle.

Running day and night game in various locations I picked up 14 Canadian girls' numbers, and while ALL BAR ONE responded to my first contact, I've only Day2ed one of them (who I will most likely bang tonight as she invited me to her apartment, however this girl is a dorky 6/10 who made me work for it, as I'll document below).

In addition to these I've made positive impressions on 5 international girls - an Aussie, Japanese, Italian, American and German. Three of these were having their final nights within their social circles when I met them (and proceeded to Facebook me to meet them in another time and place). One eats too many pies, so while very cute, has a ginormous rear end I would baulk to see in the flesh, and the other while extremely flirtatious, has a long distance boyfriend.

Now to summarise the Canadian girls:
- The best ones were travelling/exchanging from Calgary! Insta-dated one and hit it off with another who "misses her boyfriend"...so I dropped the pursuit.
- Met a Christian
- Met younger girls who dropped everything to consistently text me back within minutes. But the moment of escalation when I'd ask them out (which had been seeded to varying degrees), was met with utter failure and rejection.
- One was EXTREMELY distracted on the night I met her as she'd brought her 16yo sister along. SNL therefore impossible.
- One actually said in a text she thought I was extremely cute but, "since I have no job/place I'm not looking to meet anyone for now. I'll keep your number and we can chill when I get my shit together"

Now the above was a major sign pointing to the girls calling the shots here. I'm available NOW, and if you can't go with the flow and just have a good time, you MISS OUT! Her honesty was refreshing, but that's such a feminist, transactional way to look at relationships.

The girl I will see tonight has just secured a room and bed. Until now we have dated twice and made out heavily with nowhere to bounce to. She said in a moment of post makeout stress in the nook of a subway station late at night, "I know what I want, I just don't know how to get it." Her eyes were hungry. Having options at the time (or so I thought), I let her go knowing that her interest was high enough to last a week or so.

Still this attitude viewed me as a piece of meat. Furthermore her attitude over the last week has been woeful - saying I'm a drama queen for sarcastically humorous comments about Quebecers and saying we should "cancel the date and do something another time". Her pants wearing tendencies are disconcerting, but I'll show up at hers tonight regardless for the lay and free night accommodation.

Let us fast forward to my nights in Montreal just over this weekend. WOW! It is low season, but the beauty of these girls far outstrips any other part of the world I've been to. My experience however wasn't quite the Montreal party I had expected.

Thursday:
Bar Korova - very student vibe and ratio 70/30 guys. Met a girl at the bar who was minding her friends drink. Chat started decently enough but felt I was being judged. Turns out she was a Toronto girl who'd been living there for three months. Her beast of a friend came back and then she took her leave.

Tokyo Bar - Young crowd. Opened a dancing pair who accidentally bumped me and got nothing. Went out the back and opened a two-set. From Toronto! And all they did was blast Quebecers. Before long the place cleared out.

Friday:
Opened a McGill student in Tim Horton's and she was excited to speak to me. 21yo from, you guessed it, Toronto!! And a English Lit/ Political Science major to boot! (Where are all the nurses?) She was very interested to know that I'd packed up and left my home country to try out life on the other side of the world, whereas she'd never traveled past NYC.
"You run a blog, don't you?" I asked
"OMG how did you know??" came the reply. Haha! It's like those horoscopes where you make an educated guess and the believer eats it up.
Her blog was about, "how to take chances and opportunities and live your life through travel, adventure etc"

As soon as she said this I thought her to be a PERFECT candidate for ONS / coming of age with an older man!

I told her she can quote me in her blog, but that if she had more real experiences to draw from it would give her writing more credibility.
Number close.
"Oh, I'll give you my surname so you can add me on FB. I'd prefer to contact through that".

My later text ignored, no cigar.

---
After opening a businesslike American girl on campus, I street approached at a crossing. Had a decent conversation with a 24yo Master's student girl with plenty of elderly chat at the beginning. She was studying food science, and hence, got a kick out of baking. That's more like it. But guess where she was from? TORONTO! She was also narrow minded enough to not really know anything about Montreal's layout, attractions and top spots for food/drink.
However we exchanged texts back and forth - she spent all Saturday baking for a friend's birthday. Excellent. I asked her to leave aside some stashed leftovers and to bring them when she came to meet me on Sunday night. At first hesitant, then she flat out knocked me back saying she had too much of a busy week upcoming.

Santos - 6pm - completely empty, I was the only one! Chatted with the bartender who was a decent guy who filled me in on what to do at night (and of the strict door policy of so many upmarket places). He told me to come back later that night - stupidly I didn't. I started to realise the way to succeed in Montreal. Sit with the various barman from 5-7pm, tip well, and befriend them. Instant social proof.

Saturday:
KB Cafe (I think that was the name) - small joint. Chatted to a guy who knew the DJ and found a small circle. Unfortunately these dudes were just standing around. Approached 3 sets and got blown off each time fairly strongly. Seems this was a cliquey pre-drinks place with no room for foreign travelers.

Cafe Campus - BIG MISTAKE. Filled with teenyboppers and bouncy boys whose boundless "time of our life" energy was most likely due to the fact their balls hadn't dropped down into their sacks yet. I'm nearly 29, and sure, I can get rowdy when the mood strikes. But somewhere like this is definitely not the place to thrive. Music blasting also.
I saw a guy upstairs looking bored out of his brains. Girls below were waving at him.
"I think they want you down there," I said
"Yeh it's my girlfriend and tonight is her birthday, but I hate dancing," came the reply.

There were 10 chicks and him in the group. At 22 he felt too old to be there, and he shrugged when I asked him why he hadn't brought any dudes along. Rapport with him (though obviously beta) led me to move around and open the two girls beside him. No hook, no nothing. Moved around to another mixed guy/girl three set. A cute blonde at the end of the row said almost straight away, "I'm a lesbian, if you want a girl ask her" HAHA. I playfully admonished her for pimping out her friends like that but she was too young to really catch on.

It was time to leave. In the coatcheck line, opened some more typical Montreal cuties but they played the "French only, no English" card.

Not willing to end the night on such a sour note I dropped into Olde Orchard for something more my scene. A guitarist and drummer were rocking out some not-so-overplayed covers so I sat back and enjoyed the ambience. Two 6s were calling out requests, so during a lull I stood and opened them with something situational about the cover they spoke off and got blown off with barely a response. Wow, tough crowd, and judging by the accents probably Torontonian! So I left.

At the last crossing near my hotel, I felt a pang of hope and confidence as three girls were camped out on a step awaiting a ride. One was having a photo taken, so I did what any guy would do at 3am. Photobombed! This opened the conversation and I instantly knew that these girls were REAL, AUTHENTIC MONTREALERS! One of them took an instant shining to me - I guess she just liked my accent, directness, maturity, and eye contact. The fantastic thing about this set that struck me was that the other two didn't try to cockblock whatsoever. During this exchange more of them came up and drifted away - guys and girls that I was genuinely introduced to and then left alone.

The girl (Syrian French Canadian, and a real stunner) was flirtatious, touchy-feely and interesting. And the best part - studying to be a sexologist! I complimented her as being wise beyond her years (24) as most people I'd known under 23 had very little concept of what made for good sex and intimacy. It was such a weird chat to be having so late at night in subzero temperatures while her sister pulled up in her car and ride, but we were vibing. I told her Sunday was my last night in Montreal - she number closed me - and said she waned to see me before I left tomorrow. WOW.

Sunday:
I tried to recollect my memories of this girl, and once I established that I actually had met the ideal French-Canadian by chance, texted her with a plan for getting her out later. He replies were instantaneous. She was excitable about life, food and most of all chocolate. So I invited her out to Juliette Chocolate - a famous looking upmarket cafe that looked perfect for a Day2.
"I'd love to go there! What time?" she asked eagerly.

The date was set, and all I needed to remember was to be my natural 28yo self, sexing a girl with my eyes and conversation until the natural progression was to teasingly wandering hands that led her back to the hotel room.

8pm I texted that I was waiting inside the building. No response. 8:20pm still no response. So I left bitter and incredulous. 10pm still no response, though I was distracted by the comedy film I'd begun to mask my unavoidable loneliness after 4 nights without some semblance of a connection. I actually slightly worried, as even a cold flaky bitch will usually text with some excuse.

It came at 11 when I was in bed

Quote:

ikkkkeeeemen! I'm soooo sorrryy, my phone ran out of batteries and i had an emergency at the hospital, they paged me and i didnt have ur number by heart..im awfuly sorry and i just got home ...i was stressed for the past 4 hours..i was really looking forward to c u.

We texted a bit more the next day and she said it was sad I had to leave as she liked me. Then later and randomly again: "By the way i did not stood u up yesterday..but i am still very very sorry "

It didn't help that I was reading this while half-ugly Torontonian college girls in the bus home were bitching about banal rubbish for hours.

------------------

Now back to the topic and the rationale for my decision to be based in Ottawa....

Making my way from the seating area of Toronto bus terminal to the queue outside, a junkie with "the eyes" quietly abused me for ignoring him. Taking solace in the line I befriended an old lady from Montreal who'd resettled in Ottawa. She bemoaned the rude indifference of people she'd come across in Toronto - I kept silent about the feminazis I'd come across (the hostel staff are further examples). This lady came behind me at the rest-stop and paid for my treats, as she happened to call them. It was an omen.

My first afternoon in Ottawa people walked with an air of composed intelligence with a touch of casualness I miss from home. Eavesdropping, I noticed everyone from strangers to friends to be very civil and non-argumentative.

The closer I came to picturesque downtown, pretty girls circulated. A nice one in the Beavertail stand chatted to me, as did a guy around the area eating a caramel apple. I opened a friendly busker who gave me a quick rundown of the music scene of the area. It felt like France, England, Canada and Australia all mixed into one friendly town.

Then I spotted the girl who got my blood pumping in set off the in built mechanism to take opportunities with sexy women in foreign places. She was working alone in a cupcake shop and I did some elderly chat about the store and her cupcakes, with more and more playfulness. Before long she was shifting awkwardly (with desire it seemed) and we were engrossed in a deep 20 minute get-to-know-you.

Her second job, as my fortune would have it, was as one of the alcohol promo girls who go from bar to club dressed in sexy Smirnoff/Bacardi/whatever gear seducing and selling to alcoholic betas. Suddenly the promise of being integrated into the most milkable social circle of the city was a reality.

I told her i was on a recon mission to find a home in Eastern Canada and Ottawa was my current stop. Number closed and proceeded to text back and forth through the evening. I was staying in the haunted Jail Hostel, so it was a source of mirth for her to comment on how crazy I was to subject myself to that.

Her:

Quote:

Yah I'm sure it's haunted so good luck with that! If it makes you feel better my apartments in a "heritage" building as well and my roommates not home. So we can be creeped out together!

An invitation?!
Me:

Quote:

Haha all over Ottawa ey? What are you suggesting...that we meet a safe haven like a cosy bar to steel ourselves for the impending haunting?

Her:

Quote:

I'm already in my PJs and I've got class at 8am remember? I will give you a text tomorrow though. Good night!

I can roll with that.

Minutes later the truth came out - that she just started dating a guy who spent a year in Australia and he would love to reminisce with someone from there. Her 18yo sis and that sister's 18yo friend would be out the following night too, for home drinks and casino trip.

This actually worked in my favour. The guy was cool and genuine, not seeming to mind that I'd number closed his girl in a cupcake shop. The 18yos were very young, and initially shy, but with mature bodies. We all had a fun night - upon my return I'll be sure to get integrated into this extended circle.

During the day on my second day, I was promised a job in my industry by a friendly store manager (in heart of downtown) and met an efficient, talkative waitress in a whiskey bar (I love whiskey, especially when free tastings are involved which is what the bar does weekly). She was hot, smiley and lived in Australia. I'll be getting to know her also.

Overall, Ottawa is quiet. But it ticked all my boxes - picturesque, culturally sophisticated (gallery, museums, performances), great market area, full of nature tracks and culture of cycling and kayaking, cheaper rent closer to downtown, beautiful women and good ratio, friendly dudes, good job, closer to Mt Tremblant and Montreal than TO, and a real Quebecois city of Gatineau is just a stone's throw across the river.

My dealings with TO girls in Montreal and en route back here only served to reinforce this.

I struggle to find valid, provable reasons why, but compared to those you find in Montreal and Ottawa, Toronto girls are a chore.

Thanks to all the guys I'd met in Toronto. I can't stay here, but I'll be back time and again, or up for a big summer in Montreal!

[rudebwoy]

Great report Ikemen!

You told it like it is, not sure why you ran into so many Toronto girls but you summed them up perfectly.

Sorry to see you leave the Tdot, be warned though the winters in Ottawa can be brutal. I am sure you will find some french canadian honey to keep you warm from Hull or Gatineau.

[Moma]

A good move to get out. Don't worry about the winters, I was willing to accept an 80k per annum job in Winnipeg or Saskachewan which shyts all over Ottawa's winters in drasticness. Toronto's ROI is rubbish.

Beautiful lizards in Ottawa. Easier too, my friend said her friends complain that the men never chat to them in Ottawa. So for you, it should be like taking candy from a wee bairn..

[Brosemite]

MTL is a great place with amazing women. But also coming from a guy who did a 3-4 day weekend there...it's hard to close. There is also quite a bit of good material to work with in Ottawa too, but the ones I personally know in that part of the world are in serious relationships.

Good luck with the integration as I liked your report. I'm also sure you will be fine out there!

[ikemen]

Thanks guys, I'm embracing the weather by reading up about ice/snow cycling - just because I'm crazy like that

People have told me (and I observed) that the ratios in Ottawa were like 6 women to 1 - looking forward to it!

[ikemen]

UPDATE:

Just had a date with the most CRAZY unusual girl I've ever dated. Torontonian.

She just walked out the door now, and what compelled her to walk out, after saying she was comfortable (yet steadfastly refusing to kiss me, because she has only ever done that with guys she knew very well, in her words), was my comment:

"I think there's a part of you that wants to become a woman, but the girl in you is holding you back."

This girl is 21, oldest of 3 other siblings and commented on a book in my apartment (short term rental) by a feminist author.

I ONLY went down this line of conversation because she agreed to come back to the apartment with me (after seeing it earlier in the night), and rather than relax, show some femininity and respond to my interest and gentle touch, gave attitude and poor eye contact.

It's difficult to convey exactly what happened in writing here, but the thing that stuck out to me was that this girl had a VERY VERY rigid and pre-programmed way of looking at interpersonal behaviors - particularly with men. I noticed that some topics appealed to her, but she'd just as quickly come off them in a completely unpredictable way.

in my 28 years of gaming women, no girl has ever shown such ambiguous mixed signal and coldness to advances.

As she walked out she said my comment was borderline offensive. OMG haha, really wish i didn't waste an evening on a nutjob (she even randomly texted me asking what I was doing tonight, and in a way asked me out)

[Vacancier Permanent]

Good stuff Ikeman. Enjoyed reading your tough introduction to the "lovely" ladies of Boretown. LOL. I'm sure you will have a much better time in Ottawa, however, as mentioned, the winters there are brutal and no joke. All the best and keep us updated on how things progress in your part of the hood.

Cheers.

[xsplat]

Another vote of appreciation for your well told tales of travel and social escapades.

[ikemen]

I remembered this thread from more than a year back, so just thought I'd reminisce on my Toronto experience and fill in anyone who's interested!

The Ottawa winter was considered a heavy one based on a comparison of the previous year, but my foolish decision to ride a bike actually kept the old heart pumping and frostbite at bay (as long as no flesh was exposed).

After a little fish-out-of-water dabbling with the University crowd I decided I was done with young girls. My enrolling in a city-wide bar crawl let me to network with a frat leader I met there (wanted to tap into his community for my work in travel). He invited me to his houseparty where a cute dark-skinned thing was virtually placed in my lap. But after a few meets she flaked because she couldn't get over her ex. Another promo model was into me but so insecure about physical intimacy that it led to nothing.

As a 29yo, this was a momentous time for me. Having a McLovin lookalike as an impromptu wingman then being interrupted midset by a "dude" who wanted me in his Flip Cup team was enough of an epiphany that youth culture was kinda tiresome. And when I looked at those two girls mentioned above, their underdeveloped bodies and untapped sexuality left me indifferent to the effort I expended on them.

So I turned to the mid-late 20s crowd. Banged a firecracker I met at a snowy bus stop and a very Canadian ex-skater and amateur curler who had starry eyes for me the moment I walked past her in the bar. Her equally charming wingwoman didn't cockblock me, she actively facilitated the hookup! And in each case, the Day 2 to sex was quick and outrageously enjoyable.

Snow was in mounds by mid January, so I jumped online and send out about 8 messages to the best ones. Of the replies, banged one, had a meh date with the other, and then a FANTASTIC date with the third.

The Canadian Asian Jessica Alba - 30 years old with the face of an 18 year old - she smoldered with a sexually charged fire thinly veiled by a respectable and intelligent demeanor. She wouldn't sleep with me on our first date, but we had so much fun playing in the car on the coldest day of the winter that I was certain she was everything I'd been searching for.

After the next two dates something inside me just flicked, and I cut off all pickup activity and contact with others in the loop. 6 months later, other girls on the street did nothing to arouse me. Females at the adjoining table just annoyed me with their retarded conversations and dumb hair.

Almost a year later I have moved back to Australia and my Canadian girlfriend is coming here to live with me. Work permit sorted and only 6 weeks till she gets to experience my country. Can't be happier!

Thanks Roosh and crew who I met in person and those who responded here. Ottawa was everything you'd said it'd be and more.

[rudebwoy]

Oh man sorry to hear you moved back home.

Keep us in the loop, I enjoy your writing and it was a pleasure to meet you.