[Menace]

I've started to debate whether contributing to a 401(k) makes any sense when there is no company match. I suppose it makes sense if I don't do some other kind of investing with the money. Thoughts?

[j r]

(11-15-2012 07:53 PM)Menace Wrote:  

I've started to debate whether contributing to a 401(k) makes any sense when there is no company match. I suppose it makes sense if I don't do some other kind of investing with the money. Thoughts?

As long as the contributions are pre-tax free, you're making something right there up front.

[R Smoov]

Uhhh, I don't have any good information about this topic. Honestly, I've started my Roth IRA (10 dollars in, but a broke college student gotta start somewhere!) recently and I'm starting to get a small understanding of this investing biz you guys talk on.

Does anyone have any good book recommendations about investing or any site where I can learn it?

[TheCaptainPower]

I think buy and hold is slowly dieing....Maybe, and maybe holding index's with dividends but business changes so much faster these days. I have been market timing since 2000 and I have been killing the averages...

Captain Power

[Teddykgb]

My first stock transaction was 1.5 years ago when I bought BAC. I spent 10k on it thinking I was going to make a quick buck. It started going down and I lost 1,300 in the first 4 or 5 days so I acted likea fucking pussy and sold. I decided to look at it about 3 or 4 months later and it was up about 40%. I will never be a pussy again.

Once I put my money in the market I just have to mentally count it as gone and pretend its monopoly money because if I get my heart involved and im a beta ass bitch.

[BIGINJAPAN]

Quote:

For instance, I currently hold GE stock and I'll probably buy more.

Have you ever looked at the financials of GE ? That might possibly be the worst company in America. It is not an industrial giant anymore. It is now a poorly ran hedge fund. If it didn't get secretly bailed out it would have gone under in 2008.

I don't even know where to begin on how bad a company it is. I think 40% of all revenue now comes from financials. It has 600,000,000,000 in debt. Not even Apple could dig itself out of that hole. No way GE can. And the best part about that debt, 300,000,000,000 of it is short term ie. under 5 years. Don't want to sound like an ass but I would re-evaluate your stock pick. Also it is down about 70% from its all time high, which was back in 2000. There are so many better ran companies than this that pay even higher dividends.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(11-15-2012 08:09 PM)Rosca Wrote:  

Uhhh, I don't have any good information about this topic. Honestly, I've started my Roth IRA (10 dollars in, but a broke college student gotta start somewhere!) recently and I'm starting to get a small understanding of this investing biz you guys talk on.

Does anyone have any good book recommendations about investing or any site where I can learn it?

Early extreme retirement

[Jaydublin]

Jim Rodgers disagrees

Everybody is different

[Armenian]

I find this is true for mining stocks and probably tech stocks but not for many blue chip dividend paying stocks.

[WestCoast]

(11-15-2012 07:53 PM)Menace Wrote:  

I've started to debate whether contributing to a 401(k) makes any sense when there is no company match. I suppose it makes sense if I don't do some other kind of investing with the money. Thoughts?

No match you want a Roth IRA or a Roth 401K. As it stands you can take out the principal with no penalties.

Lets say you have $5K it grows to $6K... If shit hits the fan you can take out $5K with no penalties.

If you never have to touch it then well, you get tax free gains when you retire.

I would not recommend a 401K normal for you unless you have a hard time saving $$ and use it a psychological tool to see less money flow in.

[SelfPaid]

(11-15-2012 05:51 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

I agree that the buy and hold strategy is doomed to fail now. It worked in the past. But if you bought and held in 2000 until now you are still under water on the S&P. If you were tracking the NASDAQ you are still down about 60%. Not factoring inflation as well. If you were a buyer and holder of anything on the NIKKEI prior to 1990 then you are probably down about 80%.

Point is the bull market of 25 years is long over now. Looks to me like the trader will be the one who makes money. I'm not saying day trader, but more likely a swing trader. You will have to make moves every couple weeks or months. I think this is the strategy for the next decade until everything is smoothed out. The longer they kick the can down the road the more choppier the markets will be.

And for you guys that like the buy and hold and collect dividends I suggest you look into Asian stocks. There yields are twice if not triple what most american companies pay. The canadian oil companies all pay a pretty hefty dividend as well. Not as great as the trusts used to pay out but you won't have to sit on it for 20 years to make your original investment back.

Smart Idea big in Japan you don't have to be a daytrader since it's a skill that is quiet hard to learn and most people fail.

But you need to be more creative when it comes to Investing. Swing Trading is a Smart idea or writing covered, calls Trading Options Selling Put Options. Doing the thing that nick hallick the guy in the video does.

That is what works now I understand that buying shares and going to sleep worked maybe a few decades ago but even then most people where not succesful doing that.

There is more to that you need control of you'e Asset. If You own shares and rent them out you have control because you get Money so that other people can speculate with what you own.


That is the way smart people do it If I own a commercial real estate I don't care about if your're bussines hase a bad ore a good month I get my rent either way or I will kick you out so that's how you need to think and that is the position you need to be in if you want to suceed.

Think about it.

[SelfPaid]

(11-15-2012 08:09 PM)Rosca Wrote:  

Uhhh, I don't have any good information about this topic. Honestly, I've started my Roth IRA (10 dollars in, but a broke college student gotta start somewhere!) recently and I'm starting to get a small understanding of this investing biz you guys talk on.

Does anyone have any good book recommendations about investing or any site where I can learn it?

If you want to learn about Investing start Learning to think like Capitalist first.
It's the right mindset you need and than the right strategies.

Most people who go to high school and college are socialists not Capitalists because they are trainned to think that way learn how to think like a capitalist and you will find oppertunites.

If you want I can send you a good book per email but you will have to actualy implement it and take it seriously otherwise it's just time wasted.

Take Care
Eric

[SelfPaid]

(11-15-2012 11:49 PM)murrb Wrote:  

My first stock transaction was 1.5 years ago when I bought BAC. I spent 10k on it thinking I was going to make a quick buck. It started going down and I lost 1,300 in the first 4 or 5 days so I acted likea fucking pussy and sold. I decided to look at it about 3 or 4 months later and it was up about 40%. I will never be a pussy again.

Once I put my money in the market I just have to mentally count it as gone and pretend its monopoly money because if I get my heart involved and im a beta ass bitch.

Yes you need to get emotionaly uninvolved but let me be honest with you, you're problem was trying to make a quick buck........That buch you wanted to make whent to someone else with a different mentality most people that loose are trying to get rich quick. Let me say it again....

.

There is no such thing ase get rich and quick making a quick Buck

You actualy have to learn the skills and no what you're doing..do you think that bill gates or warren buffet tryed to make a quick buck ?

Nothing against you personaly but I fear you won't make it if you have that mentality, it's about what works and what doesen't work trying to make a quick buck is the fastest way to broke street.

Sorry to bring the bad news

[Jaydublin]

There are still some very successful buy and hold investors who admit they are not good traders and cannot time markets, Jim Rodgers is the perfect example.. Just because the big indexes have not done well since 2000 doesn't mean its a bad strategy, just the wrong investments. Its the cycle we are in and have years to go in it. A boom like we had from 80-2000 will eventually return.

Just because something works well for 1 individual doesn't mean everybody has the stomach for it. Like with poker, some people can handle the swings and bad beats and some cant. There are players who would be very successful if they could handle the short term swings.

Don't let somebody tell you something doesn't work just because they have been more successful at something else. That's them, not you. I personally have been very successful buying and holding a few years.

[Menace]

(11-16-2012 01:23 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

No match you want a Roth IRA or a Roth 401K. As it stands you can take out the principal with no penalties.

Lets say you have $5K it grows to $6K... If shit hits the fan you can take out $5K with no penalties.

If you never have to touch it then well, you get tax free gains when you retire.

I would not recommend a 401K normal for you unless you have a hard time saving $$ and use it a psychological tool to see less money flow in.

Thanks for the advice. Roth IRA is out because I'm past the income cutoff. I don't think my employer offers Roth 401(k), but I will look into it.

[SelfPaid]

(11-16-2012 07:16 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

Just because something works well for 1 individual doesn't mean everybody has the stomach for it. Like with poker, some people can handle the swings and bad beats and some cant. There are players who would be very successful if they could handle the short term swings.

Don't let somebody tell you something doesn't work just because they have been more successful at something else. That's them, not you. I personally have been very successful buying and holding a few years.

Wise word's

[Teddykgb]

I bought 20k worth of skull candy almost 2 months ago.

I had been slowly losing my ass a little bit at a time but I was super psyched when I heard the market was up 308 points today so when I got home I went straight to the computer to check out how much I made with skull candy today.

Down 12% after it was downgraded to a underperform stock!!!

Fuck My heart sank and I am feeling like shit. I know you are not supposed to invest more than you are willing to lose but I'm a stupid fucking retard and now I'm down about 5k over the last 2 months becasue I thought I could make a little extra money doing this shit!

Anyway I am just laying here in bed and I tried to fall asleep but I have this fucking sick feeling in my stomach and I cant fall asleep.

I did this same thing about 2 years ago. I fucking bought a stock it went down I got scared and sold. I told myself I wouldn't do it again but I just want to get rid of this shitty ass feeling in my gut

[A CLOCKWORK TRADER]

(01-03-2013 02:17 AM)murrb Wrote:  

I bought 20k worth of skull candy almost 2 months ago.

I had been slowly losing my ass a little bit at a time but I was super psyched when I heard the market was up 308 points today so when I got home I went straight to the computer to check out how much I made with skull candy today.

Down 12% after it was downgraded to a underperform stock!!!

Fuck My heart sank and I am feeling like shit. I know you are not supposed to invest more than you are willing to lose but I'm a stupid fucking retard and now I'm down about 5k over the last 2 months becasue I thought I could make a little extra money doing this shit!

Anyway I am just laying here in bed and I tried to fall asleep but I have this fucking sick feeling in my stomach and I cant fall asleep.

I did this same thing about 2 years ago. I fucking bought a stock it went down I got scared and sold. I told myself I wouldn't do it again but I just want to get rid of this shitty ass feeling in my gut

Why did you even buy Skull Candy? The chart looks abysmal:



If you knew about technical analysis you would never commit this error. If anything, two months ago you should of been shorting the stock! An age old trading axiom that will always remains relevant: Cut your losses! A good trader realizes that once an error is made you just have to get out as soon as possible so you can start again fresh.

Here are two technical analysis books I highly recommend to get you started:
Technical Analysis For Dummies
Stan Weinstein's Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets

[_GQ_]

My advice: buy more Skull Candy and wait it out.

[A CLOCKWORK TRADER]

(01-03-2013 01:06 PM)_GQ_ Wrote:  

My advice: buy more Skull Candy and wait it out.

I'd rather take this ^ guy's advice! He's only worth a couple of billion.....

[Fatless]

Coffeehouse Investor. Buy low-expense ratio funds and etfs and sleep at night. Buying individual stock is approximately gambling, unless you like to gamble of course, don't do it.

[BIGINJAPAN]

At this point a guy can sell call options to recoup his losses.

I agree though that chart is as ugly as them come and I wouldn't expect him to recoup losses anytime soon unless he starts writing some options.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

Possibly relevant:

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/this-guy-...Eau8g.html

and

[BIGINJAPAN]

(01-03-2013 02:03 PM)Fatless Wrote:  

Coffeehouse Investor. Buy low-expense ratio funds and etfs and sleep at night. Buying individual stock is approximately gambling, unless you like to gamble of course, don't do it.

Honestly most etfs are a scam. Banks do not create investing trading vehicles for the general public for there good.

Only ETF I would buy PSLV which is ran by Eric Sprott.

Also the leveraged ETFS, which I love, like FAS and FAZ, I play the options on. But never buy and hold a leveraged etf. You will be bled dry with all the fees.

[Andy_B]

I bought a stock portfolio in 2007. THe portfolio is up 30% since then, with no stocks in my portfolio currently lower than the price I purchased them at. That's 5% a year off capital gains. But my portfolio also has an average dividend yield of 3% per year. So the total return (gains plus dividends) has been 8% a year. Not bad for a portfolio bought at the start of a massive stock market decline.

People who advocate against buy and hold are just trying to get rich quick. Whenever I talk to them, sooner or later they always expose themselves as seeking results that aren't mathematically possible over the long term--Double digit gains a month and stuff like that. The upper limit of LONG TERM investment results is something like 20%-25% a year, sorry but it's just the truth. There's a reason none of these day trader and technical analyst types are on the cover of Forbes, man. They shoot for impossible, unsustainable results and go broke.

Just invest in stocks that pay a nice fat dividend and have the earnings growth to back it up, and try to understand the dynamics of the company's market position. That's what the game is really about, chart reading is fucking retarded and always will be.