[Andy_B]

Kinda seems like things are heading in that direction.

One of the world's biggest armies by personnell, double digit GDP growth, and the most militarized large country in the world per-capita, it's looking more and more like the Ottoman Empire is set for a comeback.

Thoughts?

[el mechanico]

Greece will put a smackdown on them out of jealousy for becoming a superpower.

[Andy_B]

lol I was supposed to put this in "Everything Else" but I guess it kinda works as a travel thread too...

[Tex Pro]

(11-14-2012 07:37 PM)Andy_B Wrote:  

Kinda seems like things are heading in that direction.

One of the world's biggest armies by personnell, double digit GDP growth, and the most militarized large country in the world per-capita, it's looking more and more like the Ottoman Empire is set for a comeback.

Thoughts?

Hopefully, as Turkey's economy improves, it will get more secular. Then there will be more Turkish sluts.

[fresh]

(11-14-2012 07:37 PM)Andy_B Wrote:  

Kinda seems like things are heading in that direction.

One of the world's biggest armies by personnell, double digit GDP growth, and the most militarized large country in the world per-capita, it's looking more and more like the Ottoman Empire is set for a comeback.

Thoughts?

Theres a lot going on in the major cities, but there is way bigger diffrencece betweeen social layers/ financiel subliment then you find in neither EU, US nor Russia. The kurdish minority is still haunted.

Aswell in turkey as india, is there a short bangable period, ( most cases, poor educational level, compared to most western institusions). Izmir is the the biggest collage city, and would bring in a lay, otherwize Antalya, wich is the more open city of turkia, even more then european part of istanbul.

[WesternCancer]

I thought this thread was going to be about food.

[Hencredible Casanova]

I already see Turkey as a major power in its region. It's a NATO member state with the largest army after the US. Everyone in the Middle East looks up to Turkey as a place that has meshed Islam and secularism reasonably well. I went to Istanbul last year and was blown away with what I saw. That is truly one of the world's most epic cities. I don't even think Turkey needs Europe. It's more like the other way around. Turkey is growing fast. It has a young population (far younger than the aging Euro states) and birth rates are much higher. It's going to continue moving in an upward trajectory. PM me if anyone is going to Istanbul. I have some recommendations.

[56merc]

They are also one of the US biggest allies in the region. We have a few major Air Force bases their and supply them training and weapons. I would say they already are a superpower in the region.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I like its current balance between the West as civilization and Islam as religion. I'd keep it that way, and it seems well-respected too. I sincerely hope that it doesn't veer off into extremism of either kind.

[bojangles]

it's a pretty secular state already, the army is always ready to throw out any ruler who brings religion into government.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Not anymore though: the last PM (Erdogan) trounced the army bad. That part of their politics is dead. Thankfully, even without the threat of army deposing the government, Erdogan has proven to be reasonable and not some Islamic extremist.

[bojangles]

Ah yes, I forgot that he is a bit of an islamist

[Vicious]

The current government is going the wrong way. Never mind that just about all states that flirt with theocracy (especially concerning Islam) are shitty, troubled places.

[fg13]

I belive Turkey is a giant with clay heels.It is a deeply divided country between the seculars,who wish to live in a progressive and stable western style state and are mainly in the cities on the Aegean city and in the military and on the other side the Islamists who are in the countryside and imagine a new Ottoman empire and are expressed by their current Prime-minister.On top of that one must add the 20 million or so Kurds who want either self-rule or outright independence.
The economy of Turkey is in a boom now,but it reminds me of the Greek economy 10 years ago,when Greece had 20% developement each year...and look where we are now.
Turkey,through the arrogance of its current goverment has put the country in conflict with Israel and Syria,while the goverment has purged almost all the upper echelons of the Turkish military under the pretext of thwarting a coup in 2007.Their armed forces may be in impressive in numbers,630000 men but their performance against the PKK,esp.in the last 18 months and their responses to the Mavi Marmara and the F-4 shootdown were abysmal.I firmly belive,that the path that Erdogan is following will ultimately destroy his country if not dismember it aswell,with whatever consequences it ma have to the near east and the Balkans.

[Greek kamaki]

Big potential but the Turk remains Turk.Meaning too much corruption,laziness,dishonesty,inequality.In Istanbul I saw extremes.Impressive skyscrapers and lots of poor people in crowded streets.

[Marco]

guys, as a frequent visitor I wish to contradict.
turkey is going in the direction of radical islam, same like iran, erduan is even compared to hitler in local media which is still not that much censored. internet is limited to government allowed websites similar to china.
yes, they are Europian influenced style girls but they are minority, the only turkish girl i bang was in italy, abroad they are open, in turkey very hard.
dont waste your time there, even the summer places in anatolia where many russian visit is infested with local turkish which ruins your chances as of their money oriented behavior.

[TheBulldozer]

(11-15-2012 07:12 PM)Marco Wrote:  

guys, as a frequent visitor I wish to contradict.
turkey is going in the direction of radical islam, same like iran, erduan is even compared to hitler in local media which is still not that much censored. internet is limited to government allowed websites similar to china.
yes, they are Europian influenced style girls but they are minority, the only turkish girl i bang was in italy, abroad they are open, in turkey very hard.
dont waste your time there, even the summer places in anatolia where many russian visit is infested with local turkish which ruins your chances as of their money oriented behavior.

Having a rather deep connection with Turkey for a multitude of reasons, I cannot agree with this assessment. First off, your spelling of Erdoğan is puzzling, and makes me wonder.

Secondly, regardless of what Erdoğan says, the reality is, is that Turkey is a NATO nation and is largely secular and Western looking. Your objection to the modern Turkey comes from the Eastern, mostly Kurdish part of the state, as well as the bottom of the economic scope of Turkey.

Much of Turkey, at least the portion of the country that has significant influence, has been exposed to Western 'luxury' and embraces it harder than many Westerners. Turkey is hardly falling into any sort of xenophobia, or religious favoritism as a result of what Erdoğan thinks.

My honest assessment is that Turkey will pull away and lead, rather devolve and moderate in this region. There is little religious, social, or economic incentive for them to moderate or peacemake here, believe it or not.

[_GQ_]

(11-15-2012 04:41 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

I sincerely hope that it doesn't veer off into extremism of either kind.

It's heading that way already, which is unfortunate after many years of progress. The Prime Minister, Erdogan, is a complete nut and needs to go ASAP.

[storm]

Power isn't free: wealth comes first. Where would turkey find wealth enough to propel it into superpower status? While I think they can hustle their way into significance, history suggests that you need some exploitable resource to move to the forefront of nations.

[kosko]

No.

Turkeys biggest flaw is that it is chasing power via Western Avenues. These avenues directly undercut its own stability in the process. You can't be a secular Muslim nation while being in bed with the West. Name one example of one? They do not exist.

I can go into further detail but I am on my phone and I'll save the RVF eyes from a massacre of a post for another day.

[rampage]

(11-16-2012 10:33 AM)kosko Wrote:  

No.

Turkeys biggest flaw is that it is chasing power via Western Avenues. These avenues directly undercut its own stability in the process. You can't be a secular Muslim nation while being in bed with the West. Name one example of one? They do not exist.

I can go into further detail but I am on my phone and I'll save the RVF eyes from a massacre of a post for another day.

This.

[Don Juan Tenorio]

(11-15-2012 11:15 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Big potential but the Turk remains Turk.Meaning too much corruption,laziness,dishonesty,inequality.In Istanbul I saw extremes.Impressive skyscrapers and lots of poor people in crowded streets.

IMHO those are the perfect ingredients to build an empire. Take for instance the Spanish Empire, the Portuguese, the British, the Russian, the Japanese, the Caliphate, Persian, Egyptian, Roman... the USA. In the end any empire in history is build on inequality, dishonesty and corruption. You got an elite that profits from the empire itself and hordes of hungry pawns willing to kill for their elite to become richer with the hope of eating the leftovers from his table.

On the other hand take other nations focused in equality, providing their citizens with a high life standard, a mindset leaning to honestity, hardworkingness, equality, and where corruption is an anecdote. E.G. Switzerland, Finland or Norway. They never got an empire and probably they never will.

[Arado]

Turkey is becoming increasingly religious and hostile to the West. And I'm hoping that Eastern European women will tire of Turkish guys - their bad reputation has made things difficult for me (also a brown skinned guy) in all the Eastern European cities I've been to.

Also, it's hard to imagine them becoming a superpower when their immigrants to European countries are viewed as parasites on society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thilo_Sarrazin

"Polls suggest that almost half of the German population (including SPD members) agree with Sarrazin's political views and even 18 percent would vote for his party if he started one."

Many Germans I've met have the same skepticism of Turkish immigration/integration once you get some alcohol in them.

Then again, Turkey is the most advanced of all the Muslim societies, so in a relative sense, yes, they can dominate, but I'm not jealous of the territory they're wading into.

[Greek kamaki]

(11-18-2012 04:37 AM)Don Juan Tenorio Wrote:  

(11-15-2012 11:15 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Big potential but the Turk remains Turk.Meaning too much corruption,laziness,dishonesty,inequality.In Istanbul I saw extremes.Impressive skyscrapers and lots of poor people in crowded streets.

IMHO those are the perfect ingredients to build an empire. Take for instance the Spanish Empire, the Portuguese, the British, the Russian, the Japanese, the Caliphate, Persian, Egyptian, Roman... the USA. In the end any empire in history is build on inequality, dishonesty and corruption. You got an elite that profits from the empire itself and hordes of hungry pawns willing to kill for their elite to become richer with the hope of eating the leftovers from his table.

On the other hand take other nations focused in equality, providing their citizens with a high life standard, a mindset leaning to honestity, hardworkingness, equality, and where corruption is an anecdote. E.G. Switzerland, Finland or Norway. They never got an empire and probably they never will.

Yes,but there is a big difference between these Empires and Turkey.Rome,UK,Russia etc had a lot of integration and an iron hand governing them.These prerequisites are absent in Turkey.The latter has minorities prone to destabilization(Kurds etc)and a very problematic relation between politicians and the army(is the army still in control?).With so many internal weakness its potential as a big teritorrial force is disputed.(bigger than Iran?More important than Arab world?)

[eldorado]

(11-15-2012 11:15 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Big potential but the Turk remains Turk.Meaning too much corruption,laziness,dishonesty,inequality.In Istanbul I saw extremes.Impressive skyscrapers and lots of poor people in crowded streets.

Greek Kamaki,

I'm working on emerging markets.
I like your posts but this one is just comments base on envy.
Turkey had very big economic crisis on 2001 and it was very big chock for Turkish people. They had many crisis before but last one changed everything in Turkey.
Firstly, they had very competitive industry and very good export operations that called little China on the contrary of Greece. I regret to inform you that Greece had financial support from EU during long long years but your stupid politicians spent all money to make your people more and more lazy.
Now, Turkish people used to work so hard that hope Greek people would have lessons from Turkish.