[twigman]

i went to the club scene tonight with some friends to see some music. I'd been reading a bit of stuff on game and I wanted to try some stuff out.

I'm in my early 30s and being slim build. I see mostly these guys who work out in tight tee shirts and some pretty nice girls. The are a few fat plain girls there too, and a whole host of different type of girls in between, and then girls in groups of 2 or 3 with 2 or 3 guys talking to them. I know that Im just not going to find some pretty girl by herself just staring out waiting for me to talk to her. If only. That would be too simple. So it pretty much looks like I have to improve on the going up to a group.

I tried an approach on a 2-set of girls, it went well and I developed a bit of conversation, but cut it short - they were best friends - one I wouldn't touch with a pole and the really cute one. I couldn't see myself isolating the cute one as they were waiting for the band to start and I didn't feel comfortable asking the cute one for her number in front of the other. Is this me being scared? I think I've got alot to learn. My lack of closing-game kept the conversation to safe topics like the band and the venue and the supporting acts. What next? I didn't have a clue. But you know even to approach a 2-set of girls is a huge thing for me. I mean, if she was alone I could have led in with a simple "I have to go back to my friends, do you want to meet up sometime later in the week?" or something, but with both of them there I didnt know how to do it.

My other approach was on a 2 set again, this time I had this girl stare at me, when I looked down the stairs and I thought I'd like to f*ck her. I went over and got some very rejection type body language. The uglier friend just dealt with my openers in a very scathing way - one syllable don't want to talk type things. The girl I was interested in almost turned her back. She looked alot worse than from far off, and put on 10 years, so just as well - but strangely I would have liked her anyway. Maybe just older singles looking for 2 older men to go off with rather than one pretty boy intellectual type . I dunno. The turn down was fairly brutal, but I actually didn't feel anything bad - I felt good - like how funny *you* are rejecting *me* - if only you knew me - which is surprising and empowering.

I think I'm better off out of this saturday night club scene - it just doesn't seem designed to be easy - and yet I suspect there are just a higher volume of girls here just waiting to be talked to and approached than anywhere else. The males in white tees and jeans were out like some kind of uniformed army and I found that intimidating. My insecurities tend to run high approaching groups of girls/guys. I felt at the end of the day I could pick a lone girl up on public transport or waiting at the bus station a million times easier.

thoughts?

[Roosh]

Quote:

Is this me being scared?

Yes, you skipped out on what you wanted because of what another person may think. There is nothing to be ashamed about when trying to meet someone. It's okay if you get rejected with an audience watching. Chances are they will admire you for it more than relish in your failure. There is no part of me that feels good when i see a guy gets rejected. He tried and that deserves respect.

Clubs are the hardest venue. Consider it a training ground to build up your confidence where you get in a lot of practice so that when you do catch that girl in the subway you will have a solid style/approach. Ease out of the club once your skills go up because the subway has so few girls you will not get in much practice. For a year hitting on girls in the subway you'll get as much practice as one month in the club. Consider the club approaches an investment that builds the foundation.

At your stage you need to be approaching at least 10 girls a night, preferably twice a week. Chances are something will happen before you hit 10, but even not two approaches a night will lead to slow progress. I would focus on a lot of approaches and learning as much as you can from each one.

Don't worry about the muscle guys. They come there hoping their look does the work and while some girls go just for looks, game still plays big in the club. Your insecurities will fade as you start pulling girls they don't.

[Trotter]

I think you did well. You opened two 2-sets which is a big step forward. I don't care for clubs because I don't feel like you can get too personal with the loud music. Unless you're a good dancer I wouldn't recommend it to anyone really. A 2-set or larger is where having a wingman would be a good setup. You walk in and pick out the one you want and your wing peels off her friend(s).

If I was engaging a 2-set or higher I treat it as if they're all the same girl. I give them equal amounts of attention and sometimes focus a little more on the ones I'm not after. Try to get comfortable and be a part of their crew. The girls aren't dumb so they know you're after someone in their pack. But still don't telegraph that you're after something. I also use a lot of physical contact where I would bring myself in, shake some hands, nudge certain ones on the arm while I'm joking with them and stuff giving off a very friendly vibe.

A couple of weeks ago me and my buddy, freshly on the market again, went to this party in Great Falls. He had just broken up with his gf of 5 years and it was his 6th month hump. So we decided it was time to get him back out there. We go to this party and there are tons of cute girls there. I'm doing wing for him that night so I pick out a set of three and just walk into their clique and start working it.

They had like a circle thing going and they were sitting in chairs. So I grab a chair and break their circle up inviting myself. I said "Let me get in here" and they made space for me and were very friendly. One of them was a little stand offish because she probably figured I was trying to pick one of them up. I paid her no mind (she was the mark) and carried on with her friends. I did what I usually do joke, tease, nudge, touch, warming up to her friends. Then my buddy comes up from behind and seats himself next to the mark. Perfect.

There was a lot more that went into it but it would take me too long to explain it and everything that was said. But confidence and not giving off definite signs I wanted something from them was the key.

A few years back me and another buddy were at TGIF. I saw a 2-set sitting at a table and walked into it by myself. They were sitting at a booth and all the seats around the bar were taken. So I seat myself in their booth and say something like hey I'm just gonna sit here because there are no chairs open it's okay I don't bite. One of the girls is smiling and seems to be okay with the intrusion, the other just looks plain disgusted. But I didn't let that stop me. That one decides she's going to battle me because I'm obviously there trying to get one of them. She was cock blocking for her friend but she didn't know she was my mark. So she's coming at me with all of these questions and I'm eating something not paying her any mind. I'm looking over her head and showing her I'm more interested in what I'm eating. So she asks me "Do you like it in the butt?" with this look of triumph. I just come back really fast and say "Why because you don't want to be the only one?"

She gets this weird look on her face almost to say oh he had something to come back with or something along those lines. She loosened up and we delved into this discussion about anal sex and how she doesn't like it. Which was almost a deal breaker for me because I like going there, but maybe she was just testing me so I stuck with it. Later I got her to come with me to a different part of the bar, and then both to leave with me to go somewhere else which is a good test to see how far into it you are.

Anyhow, if you're going solo you have to stick to your guns. Engage them both, let them feel comfortable around you, have something to say other than typical stuff, physical contact is fine as long as it's playful nudging and things along those lines. And if you get a nudge back or get one first that's a pretty good sign. If things go well it's perfectly fine to ask the one you're wanting for her number or to get her to go somewhere else. Just don't let her wing feel alienated or left out because that's an important part of the process.

[Steve Lurkel]

apropos de the club scene, is it just me or does the cost of going to some of these places seem ridiculous? case in point, we hit a nightclub in DC last night and dropped $20 for valet parking and then $20 each to get in the door. Yeah it could be worse, but as a working man, that's still a good chunk of change just to get into a large, noisy, and crowded room (or series of rooms.) To say nothing of the cost of drinks.

I take my hat off to you soldiers that can hit these sorts of *venues on the regular.

*- the joints with DJ's, velvet ropes and table service (Fur, Love, Ibiza, etc.)...not live music venues that regularly host local, national, and international acts (9:30, Black Cat, RnR Hotel, etc.)

[zorgon]

And on top of that you pay the ridiculous cover and then they have crap like "sorry, no, you can't go there, that's the VIP area." WTF?

Does anyone actually *like* going to those sorts of snooty clubs? I prefer dives, and in my book the only excuse for charging a cover is quality live music from a real band.

[Trotter]

The Common Share is probably the biggest dive in town. It also has the cheapest beers, but it's been about 3 years since I was last there. Sometimes you can find some girls there, but most times they're already there with some dude. Not a good place for picking up just throwing out a dive.

[twigman]

It was a pretty inexpensive night really, for some reason the bars were competing with each other and didn't charge - not like I remember it from my uni. days. Maybe the clubs do charge.

"I didn't know about the cow, never mind the milk" : I wouldn't have even thought of doing 2-set prior to reading roosh's posts here. It wouldn't have even dawned on me, I mean it seems a revolution in my own head.

I also saw a 7 set of people, 5 girls, 2 guys. Hard to know who is attached or not. A couple of girls I liked. No obvious signs of relationship for me to observe straight off. Whats the approach there? It was all too hard so I just stuck to all girl groups.

Another question - what if you walk up and you get negative body language from the very start? I mean do you try a bit of an opening or do you just move on?

What I did was a huge leap for me. Thanks for the encouragement.

[Trotter]

My personal belief is that if a woman reacts that way immediately it's either because you displayed signs that you're intending to pick her up, or she's just a bitch and thinks everyone is trying to pick her up. My method has always been not to be too overt. I try not to let the girl know I've been casing her and I don't want her to know I'm even in the vicinity. It's sometimes hard to pull off but in a decently crowded area it's not too tough. I think if you give a woman time to react she's going to put her little force field up, but the trick is to catch her by surprise where she actually has to consider the fact that you're not there trying to get ass (although they know that's the case but it's all a game we play). If she sees you gliding across the room towards her direction that'll give her ample time to think oh god here's another one and the force field goes up before you know it.

But if you're intent on talking to that one I think the best approach is to bust on her. Deliver whatever opener you're going to use and guage the situation. If she's as stiff as ice try to break through by saying something along the lines of "I just wanted you to know that I think you're scaring the customers away." which is one I've used before in the past. Most times they'll react and be like why. If she gets to that point just keep her talking from there on and bust on her a little bit about her ice queen persona. But don't call her an ice queen just find creative ways of busting on her to soften the shell. Also don't overdo it because it gets tiring to the woman after a while. Just a quick couple of comments to get her talking.

I remember trying that approach at Kelly's Irish Tavern. Walked up to the girl, dropped my line and smirked at her, then I walked away before she could really say anything. I went back to what I was doing and left her there. I went back to the bar after a few minutes to buy a drink and she asked me why I said what I did and that started the flow. Even if she didn't say anything I was already prepared with a followup.

A mixed 7-set is pretty simple too. At Kelly's again in the downstairs area and you'll see that a lot. That's a whole other story though.

[Peoloom]

(09-15-2008 03:11 AM)Trotter Wrote:  

If she's as stiff as ice try to break through by saying something along the lines of "I just wanted you to know that I think you're scaring the customers away."

I think it's probably my demeanor/appearance, but I have NEVER gotten a comment like this to work -- the girl always thinks I'm some smarmy asshole talking down to her. How do you deliver a line like this?

[broken]

(09-14-2008 06:40 PM)Steve Lurkel Wrote:  

apropos de the club scene, is it just me or does the cost of going to some of these places seem ridiculous? case in point, we hit a nightclub in DC last night and dropped $20 for valet parking and then $20 each to get in the door. Yeah it could be worse, but as a working man, that's still a good chunk of change just to get into a large, noisy, and crowded room (or series of rooms.) To say nothing of the cost of drinks.

I take my hat off to you soldiers that can hit these sorts of *venues on the regular.

*- the joints with DJ's, velvet ropes and table service (Fur, Love, Ibiza, etc.)...not live music venues that regularly host local, national, and international acts (9:30, Black Cat, RnR Hotel, etc.)

20 Dollar Cover and 20 Dollar Valet usually means a specific demographic of women and having to compete with ballers. The best are attractive, and almost always professionals. (you can screen by venue)

But last time I hit The Park, the table behind me got bought by some Redskin players.

Still, the thing about the "superbowl of Game" is that
- The ballers are penned in by the table.
- Most of the "high status guys" don't do a lot of approaching. "she choosing"
- Chicks are constantly looking @ the door, waiting for "him" to show up

It's a mixed bag really
- super high bitch shields + mini skirts and high heels
- ballers trying to price the game out
- lots of regular dudes crowding up the venue
- music can be quite terrible

But in terms of quantity quality chicks, the pricey mega club beats out all other clubs.

Even with that said, I see a greater concentration of chicks on my Metro ride to work.

[Steve Lurkel]

(09-15-2008 11:19 AM)broken Wrote:  

20 Dollar Cover and 20 Dollar Valet usually means a specific demographic of women and having to compete with ballers. The best are attractive, and almost always professionals. (you can screen by venue)

But last time I hit The Park, the table behind me got bought by some Redskin players.

Still, the thing about the "superbowl of Game" is that
- The ballers are penned in by the table.
- Most of the "high status guys" don't do a lot of approaching. "she choosing"
- Chicks are constantly looking @ the door, waiting for "him" to show up

It's a mixed bag really
- super high bitch shields + mini skirts and high heels
- ballers trying to price the game out
- lots of regular dudes crowding up the venue
- music can be quite terrible

But in terms of quantity quality chicks, the pricey mega club beats out all other clubs.

Even with that said, I see a greater concentration of chicks on my Metro ride to work.

Okay, so you just described everything I saw that night! Perhaps I should have just hit this board instead of going out?

Nah, it was a learning experience and I'm grateful for it. Though, I doubt I'll be hitting that scene again soon; a friend just proposed a trip to Europe (Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, and Croatia) so effective immediately I'm gonna start socking away cash for that adventure.

[Roosh]

Happy medium are lounges with small dance floors

[twigman]

Sounds like a great club, like we don't have around here. Its nice even to hang out and dance and not care. All the clubs here are scungy.