[yoyo]

Mystery talks about this subject at length. That you have to figure out a way to open without telegraphing total interest. So he says indirect opener + false time constraint and then a neg. I know this might be too formal to discuss, but I was wondering if any of you guys stick with the indirect openers?

It use to be opinion openers (i realize that gig has been over used) and such but I was curious what or if you had a default opener you went to. I know Roosh says that guys get way to caught up in the opener and what to say and looking for the perfect moment, but I just feel like I'd be way more confident if i had a solid default opener. What did you do when you first started out? Do you have a go-to default opener? I seem to find myself using situation openers a lot, but that really allows pause and approach anexiety to seep in.

[Giovonny]

My "default opener" is ..."Hi, How are you".

I think "mystery" has alot of good things to say. But, I think Game is more "Art" then "Science".

"What" you say, is not as important as "How" you say it...Hope that makes sense.

Vibe=Game...Game=Vibe

[MiXX]

Here's what I use as defaults when nothing pops up.

If it's a late night opener: Within The first 30 seconds, i ask her if she wants to come home with me. aka AO

DAY GAME OPENER: I always comment on her shoes, or any accessory she is wearing, and immediately smile!! I have yet to meet a woman that did not at least smile, and welcome my compliment and start talking. Be bold and confident, really seem interested not just words that come accross as rehearsed.

The point of an opener is for her to notice you exist, and get her talking. So, spontaneous openers work best.


Don't give it too much thought. However you cannot go wrong with shoes or accesories, just say it with a cool vibe, not like a creep! Imagine an ugly woman approaching you on advice on the car you drive or the watch you wearing. You'll want to chat, even if you are not even interested in the girl.

[speakeasy]

Good topic.

The thing with indirect openers is that if you walk up to a girl in a bar or club and say ANYTHING, she knows what you're doing. It's like if a homeless guy walks up to me and says, "hey, nice weather out" or some random topic, I know within a minute that he's going to hit me up for some change, no matter what he chooses to open me up with. In fact the feeling of defensiveness we experience before a bum even utters the first syllable is probably similar to what a girl feels when a guy walks up and says "hi".

Since she already knows why you are saying something to her, maybe direct game is the right way to go. I'd almost rather a bum just ask me for money straight out then try to try and lecture me about his life story then ask me for change after. So I guess that's one argument in favor of direct game.

Now if it's a very casual situation like you're in line at the supermarket and she's in front of you, and make a funny comment about the latest Lindsay Lohan cover story on the enquirer right there in front of you, then I guess that could be a true indirect opener. Thing is though, I bet all beautiful women just assume that any guy that says anything to her is trying to get in her panties.

[MiXX]

All hot women know they are hot. So openers depends on the situation, location, and vibe currently happening.

You can read dozens of books, posts in many forums like this, but again, what ultimately works is being genuine and cool. Yeah, she knows you are hitting on her, despite your efforts to disqualify, 'neg' or whatever. Fuck so you're hitting on her, yeah, you are, so now that she knows you're hitting on her, do not be ashamed, scared or apologetic for doing so.

Be cool, be cheerful, but most of all BE THE BEST YOU!!

I don't follow any pick up routines or negs or patterns, I'm too busy being cool and not giving a shit. But hey, that just me and who
I am!

You will NEVER close, if You NEVER open.

[Willy Wonka]

I change it up, sometimes I say something simple like "y'all look like are having fun tonight" just as a default, but a lot of times I roll with a situational opener.

Also, lately my opener for the street outside of clubs or bars is to go up to girls and ask them if they know where the club we're standing by is.... like if I'm downtown and there's a lot of bars around, but I see some girls that are either outside of Vibe or across the street from Vibe, I'll go up and ask them if they know where Vibe is - it gets some pretty humorous responses and starts the conversation off with a few laughs sometimes.

[Quasi]

I think it all depends on your own wipe... because what you say have to work with the impression the girls have of you. I guess I come off pretty arrogant and into myself, got it all together kinda guy, so for me I atm think that being nice works in favor for me throwing a few compliments without being a grease ball seems to ameliorate my polished facade into a more approachable guy. I can then once she relaxes a bit escalate with smooth talking and say stuff she cant believe she just heard, plus I know my rhetorical abilities tell her Im no ordinary kinda joe..

So if your an innocent schoolboy, or fat try cocky and arrogant, and visa versa.. surprise them

[Amour Fou]

(02-22-2010 09:38 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

I don't follow any pick up routines or negs or patterns, I'm too busy being cool and not giving a shit. But hey, that just me and who
I am!

This has been something that striked me as a personal "satori." As the beginner that I am, until recently I went out to clubs with hand written notes to remind me of openers etc. After internalizing a few lines which I can use as openers or routines, I stopped carrying these notes... with the personal epiphany of "stop giving a shit and learn how to have fun!". I still find it hard though, when I am by myself, dolo.

And also, the concept of "indirect" opener always striked me as somewhat awkward or misplaced. I find it utterly impossible to be "indirect" at a club or night game venue, asking "opinions" etc... It seems to me that your intent must be crystal clear -to yourself at least- from the moment you open your mouth to a girl, otherwise you might come off as a chump or plain weirdo(!).

That said, I carry this doubt about what could really be considered "indirect game" or an "indirect opener". The only distinction I can make is from a "straight and to the point" opener such as "Do you have a boyfriend? Well, do you want one?" (which I adore, if said with the right playfulness at any given moment of the interaction) or something less to the point, such as "Hey, I like your style" or "What an exotic purse, did you make it yourself? (neg!)", that due to the venue -club/night game- it seems obvious that a guy would only initiate an interaction because he´s hitting on the girl.

So... am I exaggerating by saying that, at least in the context of night game, there is no such thing as being "indirect", you are either more or less "to the point'?

Even the openers demonstrated in Bang seem quite direct to me in this context...

[Tuthmosis]

(02-22-2010 09:09 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

The thing with indirect openers is that if you walk up to a girl in a bar or club and say ANYTHING, she knows what you're doing. It's like if a homeless guy walks up to me and says, "hey, nice weather out" or some random topic, I know within a minute that he's going to hit me up for some change, no matter what he chooses to open me up with. In fact the feeling of defensiveness we experience before a bum even utters the first syllable is probably similar to what a girl feels when a guy walks up and says "hi".

Since she already knows why you are saying something to her, maybe direct game is the right way to go. I'd almost rather a bum just ask me for money straight out then try to try and lecture me about his life story then ask me for change after. So I guess that's one argument in favor of direct game.

This is one of the best analogs I've ever heard for what's going on in a girl's head when you approach her. It puts you right in her shoes, which is something I always try to do when I'm thinking about the most effective approaches and angles. Just like you know, without even thinking about it, that you have more money than the bum, the hot girl knows she's hotter than the average girl on the street.

And, when you think about it like this (as you should): you realize you should never really be "indirect" about approaching unless you're in some sort of logistical nightmare: like at your job, where you're already on probation for hitting on way too many girls; with her father in the room, who's cleaning his shotgun because he uses it so much; or with your fat, divorce-lawyer wife in the vicinity.

At worst, you should be semi-direct, something stupid like: "I bet I can guess the last four digits of your phone number."

But I'm often impressed with how far extreme directness will get you, even during the day--provided you do it non-creepy and smooth. Sure, sometimes it fucks you up royally, but not in any higher numbers than indirect, coy, "safe" game.

Not long ago I was in a nearly empty library, where I approached a cute, Mediterranean-looking girl and started chatting her up. Within like five minutes I blurted, "I have a good idea." She was like, "what's that?" "Let's make-out for a little while and then keep talking. This is a good conversation." She didn't flinch. She laughed, fixed her hair, and said "why do you want to make out with me, you just met me." "How else am I going to get to know you? Besides, you have an interesting-looking mouth [gesturing]." Etc.

In the end, we didn't make out, but I paid no price for my boldness. In fact, I netted a prospect that I could have followed-up with and probably banged had I chosen to.

[sylo]

Why no make out?

[CJ]

(02-22-2010 09:38 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

You will NEVER close, if You NEVER open.

Don't know if that's a Mixx original or if you got it somewhere else, but that's one of the best things I've read on this forum.

[FretDancer]

(02-22-2010 09:38 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

All hot women know they are hot. So openers depends on the situation, location, and vibe currently happening.

You can read dozens of books, posts in many forums like this, but again, what ultimately works is being genuine and cool. Yeah, she knows you are hitting on her, despite your efforts to disqualify, 'neg' or whatever. Fuck so you're hitting on her, yeah, you are, so now that she knows you're hitting on her, do not be ashamed, scared or apologetic for doing so.

Be cool, be cheerful, but most of all BE THE BEST YOU!!

I don't follow any pick up routines or negs or patterns, I'm too busy being cool and not giving a shit. But hey, that just me and who
I am!

You will NEVER close, if You NEVER open.

This is like a summary of everything you need to know

[Qtip]

as per Roosh's book, the default opener is "Looks like you're having fun" in different contexts.

[Amour Fou]

(05-16-2011 04:58 AM)Qtip Wrote:  

as per Roosh's book, the default opener is "Looks like you're having fun" in different contexts.

... which seems quite "direct" at a night game venue, no? What would a random guy want with a cute girl at a club anyway?

[CJ]

Lol, ya that's definitely direct.

[Amour Fou]

(05-16-2011 08:34 AM)CJ Wrote:  

Lol, ya that's definitely direct.

o/ EMBRACE direct game o/

... why so many material out there keep writing about "indirect" openers etc. if they are OBVIOUSLY intended to be used when hitting on a girl? It seems somewhat beta to me...

[Samseau]

it's not a direct opener at all

you aren't being direct about your sexual intentions, you are being indirect about them.

indirect openers are more effective than direct openers, in my experience, because women themselves aren't directly sexual beings like men are, and so they are project their desires onto the types of men they would like to date i.e. men who aren't directly sexual (even though 99% of us are).

it's all about keeping plausible deniability with girls: "I didn't want to fuck you, you perv... I just thought you were having fun."

[Qtip]

You guys give girls way too much credit. Most of them are naive and even just plain dumb, 90% of the time it doesn't even matter what you say(to an extent), whether it's your body language, her mood, or her personality, she will either think you are or aren't hitting on her. I've been denied by a stuck up bitch before for letting her know she dropped her ID. Tapped her on the shoulder and got the get away from me(don't touch me) look before I even opened my mouth. I wasn't even hitting on her... Then there are the girls that don't get it no matter how direct your lines are.

It really is way more about the vibe you give off and the what you say directly after your opener, whether witty, funny, dumb, etc. that counts most. If you are a good talker with a good vibe a crappy pick up line will work just as well as "Hi, I'm Jason" will. Now if you aren't a good talker and don't have a good vibe even the perfect indirect opener is not going to get you anywhere 99% of the time unless your great looking.