[HiFlo]

kinda disappointed in this blog Was hoping it would have some 'red pill' nontraditional insights into equities and commodities, but it doesn't even cover that at all.

The best wallstreet sociopath blog ever, and which is supposedly written by a female, is http://equityprivate.typepad.com/ Going Private. She doesn't update it anymore though but it is the Heartiste/Roissy of private equity wall street.

[WestCoast]

Sure we'll go deeper ino finance as time goes, the blog you linked to is all private equity.

All info on the blog created will be sell-side, hedge funds and trading.

Definitely not going to be a jaded view of the street bc most guys jaded from the job either 1) suck at their jobs 2) complain too much 3) health issues come up 4) miss a promotion or 5) retired and no longer care

See the post on being "walked or pushed" most people are shoved out the door bc they can't hack it

[malc]

Do you guys have a income post yet so we'll get an idea what kind of money you'll get from wall street? It be useful to compare to big law, silicon valley, defense contracting, the medical field ('alternative', 'conventional', psych) and being a plumber. Maybe you can get friends or guys here to help do a comparison post on the differences in getting the education, the stress in getting the education, working environments and what you can expect.

For example, SV, you can start out around $80k-$120k and get up to $300k working at place like google or microsoft as a high level manager or team lead (not executive). Then there is the entire VC & startup lottery. It also sounds a lot less stressful and burnout prone unless your doing your own startup.

[WestCoast]

Can throw one up by tomorrow.

Simply put. If you're smart always start in Banking unless you are connected.

$110K out the gate if you're good to decent. You will save next to nothing because you'll work 80 hours a week get fucked up and have a drug addiction.

2nd year $130ish. Same issue won't save much because you'll be running on fumes 75 hrs a week.

Here you will be told you are moving up or you have to switch gears.

Rules of thumb below

First 3 years you should be at 110+.
Next 3-5 @ 130-200 dependent on sector/performance
At 30 you should be at 200-400. This is where the money is made you're real good or you get pushed out. It's the hardest jump on the industry.

If you make it to 35+ and are a performer you'll be making the same $200-400 or up to $2M plus.

[Divorco]

WestCoast Wrote:

banking/sales/research/long-short equity/ macro hedge/market neutral/one large top 3 PE firm.

As noted, there are many different finance jobs. WestCoast appears to be a recent college grad working as an investment banking analyst. This entails analyzing companies' financial statements to earn underwriting fees from issuing their stocks and bonds. This is quite different from investment management or trading.

Any young guy will have a limited perspective. WestCoast's advice of flipping cars or smuggling currency may not work for everybody. So I'm skeptical about investing advice on a game forum. There is more scope for discussion of lifestyle and career choices in the financial services industry. People could also share tips on college preparation and search strategy for these jobs. Those would be separate threads.

[WestCoast]

Feel free to take your advice from who you like.

I am not an analyst (yes I did do 2 years)

I work on the other side of the fence now.

Lawyers and I generally don't get along well. It's rare. "Young guys have limited perspective" please tell that to large hedge funds where late 20 year olds run 5:1 levered books in long- short-equity, with $500M on them. To tell the truth, I know a guy whose younger than me running his own hedge fund already with $100M plus already, I don't attack him for being more successful than me, instead I befriended him as a future contact.

Divorco and I already got off on a bad foot, it is what it is.

Finally, a couple years as an analyst in banking is nothing. To be honest if you can't get through that you are just a pussy. No money is made until you have 5 years of experience or so. I have also already been proofed, a few guys here have my contact already. I'd be a fool to give that up on a public forum though.

As another note "to earn underwriting fees from issuing their stocks and bonds" this is pretty much "false" because the groups would be separate. No person issuing bonds would also do equity. That's ECM/DCM split. Not the same . Yes both guys are "bankers" but that's an umbrella term.

Probably can feel the annoyance from my typing hence why I decided to create something, so stuff like this is not given out.

[malc]

(10-18-2012 07:19 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Can throw one up by tomorrow.

Simply put. If you're smart always start in Banking unless you are connected.

$110K out the gate if you're good to decent. You will save next to nothing because you'll work 80 hours a week get fucked up and have a drug addiction.

2nd year $130ish. Same issue won't save much because you'll be running on fumes 75 hrs a week.

Here you will be told you are moving up or you have to switch gears.

Rules of thumb below

First 3 years you should be at 110+.
Next 3-5 @ 130-200 dependent on sector/performance
At 30 you should be at 200-400. This is where the money is made you're real good or you get pushed out. It's the hardest jump on the industry.

If you make it to 35+ and are a performer you'll be making the same $200-400 or up to $2M plus.

So on a per hour basis, you make more money and have to deal with far less sociopathy in SV until you hit the performer tier around 35 years old where you can start making the millions in WS . With SV you have time to start a side business, and you can keep it if you don't compete directly with your employer.

SV gives you skills to make a location independent business, while WS will give you the skills to invest your savings.

WS gives you New York to date in, which is better by everyone's accounts it seems.

[MikeCF]

(10-18-2012 08:11 AM)Divorco Wrote:  

As noted, there are many different finance jobs. WestCoast appears to be a recent college grad working as an investment banking analyst. This entails analyzing companies' financial statements to earn underwriting fees from issuing their stocks and bonds. This is quite different from investment management or trading.

I know him personally and have hosted him in my home and you are wrong.

Are you the guy who started a couple of threads that were so whack that guys took you for a troll?

Yeah, that was you: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-16049.html

Instead of being a smug and superior, why not create some threads where, like West Coast, you actually help people rather than have people wondering if you're a troll?

[Julio]

Nice initiative West Coast, I'll follow your blog too. I have 5 years experience in IB as a sales (IRD/FX/Commodities).
Unfortunately this job doesn't seem to pay well anymore. At least it's not so much worth the effort and the hours spent.

[Divorco]

(10-18-2012 11:23 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-18-2012 08:11 AM)Divorco Wrote:  

WestCoast appears to be a recent college grad working as an investment banking analyst.

you are wrong.

Westcoast himself acknowledges that he was recently an analyst.

(10-18-2012 08:48 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

I am not an analyst (yes I did do 2 years)

Since diplomacy didn't work, let me be blunt. Westcoast offered silly financial advice (smuggling currency) because he saw black market rates deviate from market rates once on vacation. He has little or no experience actually doing this. I constructively suggest that he offer advice based on his actual experience (preparing and getting jobs), and broaden this perspective to make this advice helpful for other people.

Westcoast appears to be an energetic guy. But his posts have been glib and flippant with financial advice, while remaining extemely vague about details of his actual success. How did he choose finance? How did he tailor his education to his career ambitions? What distinguished him from other students and job applicants? How did he create career connections? These things would actually help people.

[WestCoast]

Divorco since you are making assumptions left and right and don't know anything about finance I'll be ignoring your commentary. I'll also be a dick right back right now.

You say don't take advice from youngish guys?

I say don't take advice from 30+ year old dudes who went into law and fucked up their lives and are in debt and may be divorce raped as well.

Just because you are older doesn't mean you have anything to add. You don't see me trolling the big law threads giving "advice".

Who would you rather take advice from? A guy who is successful and is already on his way to doing well. Or some guy who is on a game blog adding no value at 30+.

Maybe that made it obvious.

Your hater attitude is sad. You don't see the guys with their shit together hating. Either get something up that actually helps get real info out there or don't post anything up. Oh that's right absolutely zero sheets or info on how to use anything to get laid, when that shows up I'll go back to reading. Or simply place me on ignore. New type of hater troll.

But please give me more advice from the view point of failure. That's helpful. Thanks.

[WestCoast]

(10-18-2012 10:33 PM)malc Wrote:  

(10-18-2012 07:19 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Can throw one up by tomorrow.

Simply put. If you're smart always start in Banking unless you are connected.

$110K out the gate if you're good to decent. You will save next to nothing because you'll work 80 hours a week get fucked up and have a drug addiction.

2nd year $130ish. Same issue won't save much because you'll be running on fumes 75 hrs a week.

Here you will be told you are moving up or you have to switch gears.

Rules of thumb below

First 3 years you should be at 110+.
Next 3-5 @ 130-200 dependent on sector/performance
At 30 you should be at 200-400. This is where the money is made you're real good or you get pushed out. It's the hardest jump on the industry.

If you make it to 35+ and are a performer you'll be making the same $200-400 or up to $2M plus.

So on a per hour basis, you make more money and have to deal with far less sociopathy in SV until you hit the performer tier around 35 years old where you can start making the millions in WS . With SV you have time to start a side business, and you can keep it if you don't compete directly with your employer.

SV gives you skills to make a location independent business, while WS will give you the skills to invest your savings.

WS gives you New York to date in, which is better by everyone's accounts it seems.

That's fair, the jobs in SV and or petroleum engineering are great right now.

If you have the general career path lined up by year I can post it side by side. I don't know about that path by heart but know some engineers and can line them up if you like. For now I'll just line up the finance stuff.

The other big difference is in fianance if you Are very good you can make jumps, ie: be on year 7 pay at year 4. Just need to know how to play your cards, always better to scale up the promotes before your opportunity dries up.

[el mechanico]

(10-19-2012 07:34 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Divorco since you are making assumptions left and right and don't know anything about finance I'll be ignoring your commentary. I'll also be a dick right back right now.

You say don't take advice from youngish guys?

I say don't take advice from 30+ year old dudes who went into law and fucked up their lives and are in debt and may be divorce raped as well.

Just because you are older doesn't mean you have anything to add. You don't see me trolling the big law threads giving "advice".

Who would you rather take advice from? A guy who is successful and is already on his way to doing well. Or some guy who is on a game blog adding no value at 30+.

Maybe that made it obvious.

Your hater attitude is sad. You don't see the guys with their shit together hating. Either get something up that actually helps get real info out there or don't post anything up. Oh that's right absolutely zero sheets or info on how to use anything to get laid, when that shows up I'll go back to reading. Or simply place me on ignore. New type of hater troll.

But please give me more advice from the view point of failure. That's helpful. Thanks.

It was sneaky for Divorco to do his finance trolling while he knew you guys out west were still sleeping. I'm going to add that move in my troll tool cart. +1

[malc]

(10-19-2012 07:37 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

(10-18-2012 10:33 PM)malc Wrote:  

(10-18-2012 07:19 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Can throw one up by tomorrow.

Simply put. If you're smart always start in Banking unless you are connected.

$110K out the gate if you're good to decent. You will save next to nothing because you'll work 80 hours a week get fucked up and have a drug addiction.

2nd year $130ish. Same issue won't save much because you'll be running on fumes 75 hrs a week.

Here you will be told you are moving up or you have to switch gears.

Rules of thumb below

First 3 years you should be at 110+.
Next 3-5 @ 130-200 dependent on sector/performance
At 30 you should be at 200-400. This is where the money is made you're real good or you get pushed out. It's the hardest jump on the industry.

If you make it to 35+ and are a performer you'll be making the same $200-400 or up to $2M plus.

So on a per hour basis, you make more money and have to deal with far less sociopathy in SV until you hit the performer tier around 35 years old where you can start making the millions in WS . With SV you have time to start a side business, and you can keep it if you don't compete directly with your employer.

SV gives you skills to make a location independent business, while WS will give you the skills to invest your savings.

WS gives you New York to date in, which is better by everyone's accounts it seems.

That's fair, the jobs in SV and or petroleum engineering are great right now.

If you have the general career path lined up by year I can post it side by side. I don't know about that path by heart but know some engineers and can line them up if you like. For now I'll just line up the finance stuff.

The other big difference is in fianance if you Are very good you can make jumps, ie: be on year 7 pay at year 4. Just need to know how to play your cards, always better to scale up the promotes before your opportunity dries up.

What I know is what I wrote. I don't know how it is in the upper tiers unfortunately that well, I just get hearsay here and there. $320k google team lead that hit on some girl really badly, "I don't give a fuck that you make $250k at yahoo you dumb fuck", recruiters saying it's hard to compete with the $200k total compensation offers google gives entry/mid level engineers. MSFT giving one of the founders of Github a ~$340k offer before he went fulltime to work there, etc.

I'd be pretty interested what your engineer friends say how it's like too. I got into engineering out of passion, when I started I didn't realize it had this much financial potential or I was half decent.

Being very good in SV you can make big jumps like that too. It's very much a meritocracy. It's also easy to just be mediocre wasting time in Cisco or HP and hitting a limit pretty quickly. Or jumping from unsuccessful startup to unsuccessful startup. It's not so bad although. SV is also in a long term hiring crunch right now, which is pushing up the wages.

This book is a good guide:
An Engineer's Guide to Silicon Valley Startups
http://books.piaw.net/guide/index.html

[WestCoast]

Good stuff slayer.

I am drunk but I'll load up the path on the site tomorrow.

At the end of the day always choose the path where you'll shine the most. The top 1% in any field gets paid well. So if you're better for engineering do that, same with finance. You can go sell side and crush or fail depending on why division you go to. Same is true of buyside.

Know your strengths make them shine. Comparisons are dumb if you'd never be good at it (I would never make it as a doctor for example relative to my personal skill set)

[pitt]

Interesting stuff, really good.

Just wondering, did you write most of the articles? Because the author seems to be the same person in all articles (wallstreetplayboy)

[WestCoast]

I handed the admin rights to everyone, it's just a login, so all of it will be user the same name (also better for privacy).

The mindset stuff and 50% of game is more my writing. For the larger section by section stuff we just send emails.

If you have ?'s feel free to ask. I keep forgetting to pm you to go out and slay hopefully soon enough slayer!

Wish I had time to run everything solo, the street just doesn't allow that much time, hence why most of my posts here are also mobile. Oh well

[chyamor]

Can you write about what to do if Romeny/Obama win the election? I know Romney want to tax that ass if you arent super rich, Obama wants to protect the milddle class but neither has proven a way to make up for rising cost of medicare without taxing.

How can I protect my money? Only thing I know of is if Romney wins look into dividends and capital gains stuff, if obama wins avoid since he's going to tax it.

[BostonBMW]

Great blog Westcoast, I've bookmarked it.

I know that you might not want to talk about tax avoidance strategies/edge of legality type of financial transactions,but it would be nice if you could point me towards any resources. Stuff like:

This cat told me that he declared all of his Business School expenses to be part of his "training/career development" therefore he was able to avoid paying any federal taxes. Even though he had quit his job to start the MBA program full time, he has cashed out his 401K, IRA and faced a steep tax bill, which he was able to avoid. even if he had been audited, he had the relevant backup documentation to make the case.

Basically stuff that we can use. PM if you want to take this discussion private.

[WestCoast]

@ Chyamor Romney vs. Obama is up next and @ BMW you'll have to wait till we approach tax season!

I'd say this the simple answer to Romney and Obama is Dividend taxes, health care, defense sequester and repatriation tax.

[chyamor]

Can you also talk about this cliff all these reporters are talking about minutes after obama wins 2nd term.

[zoom]

WestCoast, I really enjoy reading the blog. Thanks for all your help.

[WestCoast]

Fiscal cliff is effectively all the tax increases and spending cuts that should revert back next year.

Right now you are paying less in taxes.

Bush tax cuts, capital gains, defense budget sequester (this will be important for investment options next year, risky though will have to play by ear), alternative minimum tax, Medicare surtax... Tons of legislation.

Ignore the "$7 trillion" number wing thrown out there. Any time you try to size up a ridiculous thing like "the entire economy" or "oil left in the world".. It's just going to be guesswork.

With that said, for educational purposes the fiscal year end is September for te government, they haven't figured out what to do still (November) and everyone is just speculating.

Would bet that people earning more than $250K will be hit in the future. Would make a smaller bet on the dividend laws being changed (buy triple tax free muni's for a trade) and would not be making bets on all the other promises.

Anyway feel free to comment or ask questions.

Good luck guys

[tomhagen]

edit

[ComebackKid]

WestCoast,

Can I drop you a PM about breaking into finance? I have a pretty unique and difficult situation, hence the need for advice.