[megatron]

I 'm a New Yorker and I want to go into web design. I've always been pretty creative, used to draw, paint and even did some decent websites a few years ago. Now, I want to switch career paths (public school teacher) and go all the way into it.

Here is my goal in a year or two: score an internship, paid or unpaid, doesn't matter, to get my foot into the door.

What's the best way I should do this?

I figure I have two routes (let me know if there's more, I'm sure there are, I'm a newb):

1) Go get an Associates in a school like this: The Arts Institute of New York for Web Design & Interactive Media

Pros:
- Reputable program that will land a good internship, possibly even before completion of program (this is what happened to my g/f)
- You study all aspects of media design including animation, photoshop, illustrator and video production.
- Study Javascript, Flash and Actionscript.
- Rigorous portfolio program

Cons:
- Long: around 3 years to complete: 100 credits
- Doesn't cover much about PHP and other Web Development (server side) stuff.
- Expensive: $58,000 (scholarships are available: too bad I'm white and don't have a vagina, though).


2) Get a certificate from Noble Desktop in NYC in Web Development. All these classes will take only 1 year to compete.

Pros:
- Short: 1 year
- Much Cheaper: $6,500 (although no Gov't Student Loans: hopefully they have a payment plan)
- Covers web Design AND Development: PHP, JavaScript/JQuery
- Covers Wordpress, Flash and Actionsctipt and more.

Cons:
- No gov't loans.
- Compressed: Some classes have a maximum of 6 sessions and others have a maximum of only two.
- Might not look as good on the resume as the Associates from the school above and hence:
- Might be tougher to score an internship and that foot in the door.

What do you guys think?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[HiFlo]

school for webdesign?

all the best webdesigners I have ever known did it because they thought it was fun and never went to school for it.

CSS/HTML/Photoshop is the most basic 'programming' out there and if you're not already doing that coding as a hobby, i dunno man.

[megatron]

(10-12-2012 10:23 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  

school for webdesign?

all the best webdesigners I have ever known did it because they thought it was fun and never went to school for it.

CSS/HTML/Photoshop is the most basic 'programming' out there and if you're not already doing that coding as a hobby, i dunno man.

Are you a web designer?

What kind of jobs and salaries do your friends make in web design?

I'm pretty decent with Photoshop and HTML (been doing it since I was 17). As for CSS, I'm studying it on CodeAcademy.com.

[Joga Bonito]

The first option is probably not worth it. At that point you might as well go to a good uni and get a computer science(super in demand degree) major with a minor or concentration in graphic design. It'll be about the same cost wise especially if you enroll in a community college for the first two years. CC is also another option to find some web design classes. Your spare time should be spent learning the web design stuff on the side. Like HiFlo said all the web designers I know started out in it as a hobby, as web design and web programming typically isn't taught with much depth in most curriculums, although you may find a course or two in more progressive CS, IT and/or MIS programs. Your best bet is to look online. For server side stuff check out this link from Harvard.

http://cs75.tv/2009/fall/

For HTML, CSS, and Web design the Head First series is in its own class, as I can attest personally(they also have great reviews). Find at your local library or cop online via Amazon or the links below:

http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfwd/
http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfprog/
http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfphp/
http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596159924.do

Lastly, for databases(essential for server side stuff) check out this great database ebook from IBM. Covers all the theory with lots of practical examples.
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/wikis...ndamentals

Happy coding.

[megatron]

(10-12-2012 10:55 PM)iWin Wrote:  

The first option is probably not worth it. At that point you might as well go to a good uni and get a computer science(super in demand degree) major with a minor or concentration in graphic design. It'll be about the same cost wise especially if you enroll in a community college for the first two years. CC is also another option to find some web design classes. Your spare time should be spent learning the web design stuff on the side. Like HiFlo said all the web designers I know started out in it as a hobby, as web design and web programming typically isn't taught with much depth in most curriculums, although you may find a course or two in more progressive CS, IT and/or MIS programs. Your best bet is to look online. For server side stuff check out this link from Harvard.

http://cs75.tv/2009/fall/

For HTML, CSS, and Web design the Head First series is in its own class, as I can attest personally(they also have great reviews). Find at your local library or cop online via Amazon or the links below:

http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfwd/
http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfprog/
http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfphp/
http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596159924.do

Lastly, for databases(essential for server side stuff) check out this great database ebook from IBM. Covers all the theory with lots of practical examples.
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/wikis...ndamentals

Happy coding.

Thanks man, I actually just downloaded a good PHP video tutorial; planning to start doing that in a month or so.

Are you a programmer or a web designer?

[Joga Bonito]

(10-12-2012 11:08 PM)megatron Wrote:  

(10-12-2012 10:55 PM)iWin Wrote:  

The first option is probably not worth it. At that point you might as well go to a good uni and get a computer science(super in demand degree) major with a minor or concentration in graphic design. It'll be about the same cost wise especially if you enroll in a community college for the first two years. CC is also another option to find some web design classes. Your spare time should be spent learning the web design stuff on the side. Like HiFlo said all the web designers I know started out in it as a hobby, as web design and web programming typically isn't taught with much depth in most curriculums, although you may find a course or two in more progressive CS, IT and/or MIS programs. Your best bet is to look online. For server side stuff check out this link from Harvard.

http://cs75.tv/2009/fall/

For HTML, CSS, and Web design the Head First series is in its own class, as I can attest personally(they also have great reviews). Find at your local library or cop online via Amazon or the links below:

http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfwd/
http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfprog/
http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfphp/
http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596159924.do

Lastly, for databases(essential for server side stuff) check out this great database ebook from IBM. Covers all the theory with lots of practical examples.
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/wikis...ndamentals

Happy coding.

Thanks man, I actually just downloaded a good PHP video tutorial; planning to start doing that in a month or so.

Are you a programmer or a web designer?

I'm actually a systems analyst, but have friends in the industry and shadowed guys in the web design department during my internship experiences. I also got into this stuff helping a relative out with a site for their business.

[HiFlo]

Screw webdesign schools. You get hired by your portfolio. Go to 3 to 5 local small businesses and offer to redesign their websites for free or for a very nominal fee. Do it free actually because thay way if they think its lousy compared to the old design they don't have to pay out of pocket.

If its good maybe theyd like to make a donation. Then you have a portfolio and expe rience. Then
you have jobs.

[megatron]

(10-13-2012 12:10 AM)HiFlo Wrote:  

Screw webdesign schools. You get hired by your portfolio. Go to 3 to 5 local small businesses and offer to redesign their websites for free or for a very nominal fee. Do it free actually because thay way if they think its lousy compared to the old design they don't have to pay out of pocket.

If its good maybe theyd like to make a donation. Then you have a portfolio and expe rience. Then
you have jobs.

Yeah, but how would I get this portfolio? It's very competitive out there. I'm totally agreeing that doing the 3 year, 58k degree is a waste, but I will probably do the 5.5k web development certificate. It'll bring me up to date (I'm not a very good self starter, I need to go to class, especially in the beginning of learning something), get my portfolio started and let me do some networking. This school is in the heart of Manhattan. Great area to make some connections.

[Majestic]

haha.. wow... I just got hired as a designer. My first job EVER. self taught. I went from slinging weed, high school drop out to making $27 bucks an hour for something I LOVE to do. I hacked the shit out of the whole process. My whole resume was bullshit. I came off as professional so they bought it. I was thinking about making an ebook out of the process. My resume plus my portfolio killed it. If you are going on the design side and not the coding, my advice would be....

- Screw the schools. Waste of money. All you need is an impressive portfolio. your portfolio is your masters degree.
- "How would i get this portfolio"... easy... i never had a client in my life. my whole portfolio was mock up sites. have about 4 or 5 pages of one website and repeat. make about 20 sites with 4 or 5 pages.
- On the interview, be ready to design a mock up on the spot. so study the company's site before heading in.. how would you redesign it??
- keep it simple when designing on the interview, logo, header, billboard, content section, footer.
- Focus on the design side or the coding. not both. good to know the basics of coding but don't get too into since you wont be touching code if you are a designer, thats why they hire back end guys to do it. a team effort.
- "It's very competitive out there"... don't say that shit.. that's a weak mindset.. eliminate that kind of soft talk... i had 4 job offers on the table. you never tested the waters, so how would you know? and where i live competition is fierce.

good luck, if you want it bad enough, you got this....

[HiFlo]

(10-13-2012 12:45 AM)megatron Wrote:  

(10-13-2012 12:10 AM)HiFlo Wrote:  

Screw webdesign schools. You get hired by your portfolio. Go to 3 to 5 local small businesses and offer to redesign their websites for free or for a very nominal fee. Do it free actually because thay way if they think its lousy compared to the old design they don't have to pay out of pocket.

If its good maybe theyd like to make a donation. Then you have a portfolio and expe rience. Then
you have jobs.

Yeah, but how would I get this portfolio? It's very competitive out there. I'm totally agreeing that doing the 3 year, 58k degree is a waste, but I will probably do the 5.5k web development certificate. It'll bring me up to date (I'm not a very good self starter, I need to go to class, especially in the beginning of learning something), get my portfolio started and let me do some networking. This school is in the heart of Manhattan. Great area to make some connections.

Damn man, I only wrote 5 sentences and 2 of them were dedicated to how to build your portfolio from nothing:

Quote:

Go to 3 to 5 local small businesses and offer to redesign their websites for free or for a very nominal fee. Do it free actually because thay way if they think its lousy compared to the old design they don't have to pay out of pocket.

[FretDancer]

HiFlo is giving you good advice here man. Its all in your portfolio, show people what you can do and they will find something from it that they want.

Start by learning how to design in Photoshop, then how to create markup with HTML and add design with CSS. That is all there is too it, make the website dynamic by learning PHP and Javascrip. Make it a real business website by incoporating and managing a database along with the website.

Like HiFlo said, start by offering to small businesses, once you complete these small jobs, create a new website that will serve as your portfolio to display all your other websites. Always refer new clients to your portfolio.

Web design is not really that hard and can be very very fun. I am both a programmer and a web designer/coder (since I can also implement databases, PHP, Javascript, among other stuff.)

[speakeasy]

I used to work as a web/flash designer from 2001 till 2010ish. Still do a little. I got kind of sick of it after awhile. I did study design at my university, but do you need a degree? No. I was self-taught. I knew more than my design professors as far as the technical aspects. What an art school DOES help you do is develop yourself as an artist. If you are going to be a web designer and not a developer(more backend and programming-oriented), you should realize that you are an also an artist. You have to have some good tastes aesthetically. Know about the appropriate uses of typography, how colors work together, understanding layout. I'd suggestion subscribing to a magazine like Communication Arts and studying the designs in there, both printed and digital.

Like the others said, it's about the portfolio. Nobody is going to ask you for a certificate or care what school you went to. You can either do the work or you can't.

[Rah]

(10-13-2012 12:45 AM)megatron Wrote:  

Yeah, but how would I get this portfolio? It's very competitive out there. I'm totally agreeing that doing the 3 year, 58k degree is a waste, but I will probably do the 5.5k web development certificate. It'll bring me up to date (I'm not a very good self starter, I need to go to class, especially in the beginning of learning something), get my portfolio started and let me do some networking. This school is in the heart of Manhattan. Great area to make some connections.

Web design might not be your best career choice. All the best guys I know taught themselves to begin with, and you have to constantly be learning new things because trends and technologies move fast. You'd be out of date in a year if you didn't keep learning.

You also should decide what you want to focus on: design or development. If you're an artistic person and think you would excel at design, focus on that. There's a huge lack of web design talent right now due to ever increasing demand. There's shit loads of mediocre designers, very few very good designers. That's why it pays to focus / specialize. There's millions of people who are "pretty good" at Photoshop, HTML, CSS, javsascript, wordpress, and can slap together passable websites for small businesses. The competition is in being mediocre. If you get really good at design, you could make six figs and have people fighting over you. You can make decent money as a developer too, but once again you should make development your speciality rather than being mediocre at both design and development.

One caveat -- if you're a really awesome designer it can pay to also know HTML/CSS so you know how to approach design for the medium and can code up your own designs. But make sure you're an awesome designer first, the coding is very secondary in terms of value. Plenty of people will slice up a PSD for cheap.

And like HiFlo says, you sure as shit don't need a degree -- just an awesome portfolio that you can make up out of thin air. If you absolutely must go to school for something go to the best graphic design school you can, which might teach you broader design fundamentals that make you a more well rounded designer than your average "web designer".

Source: I've worked as a web designer/developer and run a small web marketing and creative agency.

[megatron]

Thanks for everyone's great advice, it's added a new perspective on how I can educate myself.

I really appreciate it

[megatron]

[quote] (10-13-2012 02:48 PM)Rah Wrote:  

[quote='megatron' pid='286678' dateline='1350107114']
Yeah, but how would I get this portfolio? It's very competitive out there. I'm totally agreeing that doing the 3 year, 58k degree is a waste, but I will probably do the 5.5k web development certificate. It'll bring me up to date (I'm not a very good self starter, I need to go to class, especially in the beginning of learning something), get my portfolio started and let me do some networking. This school is in the heart of Manhattan. Great area to make some connections.[/quote]

[quote]Quote:

Web design might not be your best career choice. All the best guys I know taught themselves to begin with, and you have to constantly be learning new things because trends and technologies move fast. You'd be out of date in a year if you didn't keep learning. [/quote]

I became very good at Photoshop and decent at Dreamweaver about 7 years ago all through endless playing around (it was fun). And have made some websites, one for my parents music business. So I think I'm underestimating myself when I say I'm not a very good self-starter. I am when it comes to anything artistic: used to even get private one on one tutoring from a good artist in my mid-teens.

I am, but not when it comes to learning coding: JavaScript, PHP, etc. CSS is pretty damn easy. Not sure about HTML5/CSS3 yet, haven't seen the codes for it yet but will get there eventually.

[quote]Quote:

You also should decide what you want to focus on: design or development. If you're an artistic person and think you would excel at design, focus on that. There's a huge lack of web design talent right now due to ever increasing demand. There's shit loads of mediocre designers, very few very good designers. That's why it pays to focus / specialize. There's millions of people who are "pretty good" at Photoshop, HTML, CSS, javsascript, wordpress, and can slap together passable websites for small businesses. The competition is in being mediocre. If you get really good at design, you could make six figs and have people fighting over you. You can make decent money as a developer too, but once again you should make development your speciality rather than being mediocre at both design and development. [/quote]

Really, maybe I've been projecting, but I always thought it was the web developers/coders who were in much higher demand? You know, guys who were good at JScript, PHP, Perl, etc. Not the artistic web designers and graphic designers.

Hmm, my real love has always been graphic design in Photoshop. But I was always under the impression that graphic designers, even very good ones, got paid pretty low on average (25k or so a year). No?

And I also heard that being adept at Flash and Actionscript is pretty lucrative? True? If so, that might fit me very well. I used to love playing around in Flash when I worked part time as a web designer for Rutgers U when I was 19. So something I like and have potential to make mad $$ in: shit, that sounds great.

Also, which specialities would you say are some of the highest in demand? I would love to specialize in something, and really hone my craft in one area.


[quote]Quote:

One caveat -- if you're a really awesome designer it can pay to also know HTML/CSS so you know how to approach design for the medium and can code up your own designs. But make sure you're an awesome designer first, the coding is very secondary in terms of value. Plenty of people will slice up a PSD for cheap. [/quote]

What's a PSD?

[quote]Quote:

And like HiFlo says, you sure as shit don't need a degree -- just an awesome portfolio that you can make up out of thin air. If you absolutely must go to school for something go to the best graphic design school you can, which might teach you broader design fundamentals that make you a more well rounded designer than your average "web designer". [/quote]

Yeah, you've guys convinced me that I can learn most of this stuff on my own and via Lynda and other pay/monthly sites. Thanks for that. I'm getting a clearer and clearer picture of how I need to go about things.
[quote]Quote:

Source: I've worked as a web designer/developer and run a small web marketing and creative agency.[/quote]

Very cool. Sounds pretty impressive.

[speakeasy]

^^^ Flash is dying out. While there will be some need for it in multimedia oriented sites, it's becoming less useful a skill to have because so many sites are now being viewed on tablets and phones that don't display flash. It's getting to the point that the majority of my Web browsing is on my phone and I only look something up on my desktop when I have to.

[Rah]

(10-13-2012 12:45 AM)megatron Wrote:  

Really, maybe I've been projecting, but I always thought it was the web developers/coders who were in much higher demand? You know, guys who were good at JScript, PHP, Perl, etc. Not the artistic web designers and graphic designers.

Hmm, my real love has always been graphic design in Photoshop. But I was always under the impression that graphic designers, even very good ones, got paid pretty low on average (25k or so a year). No?

And I also heard that being adept at Flash and Actionscript is pretty lucrative? True? If so, that might fit me very well. I used to love playing around in Flash when I worked part time as a web designer for Rutgers U when I was 19. So something I like and have potential to make mad $$ in: shit, that sounds great.

Also, which specialities would you say are some of the highest in demand? I would love to specialize in something, and really hone my craft in one area.

These days I think it's the top tier designers that are in most demand. It can help if you have a good sense and understanding of user interface design and architecture. I struggle to find anyone that charges less than $70 an hour (on a per-project basis) that I think does quality design work.

In terms of what to specialize in, basically just design for digital mediums. Websites for large screens, tablets, phones, and websites that can adapt to any screen size. An emerging field that can also be lucrative is designing user interfaces for iPhone, Andriod, iPads / tablet apps. Look at galleries of highly reviewed or award winning web design to get an idea of where you want to be. Trends move fast though, so what's cutting edge today can be cliche a year later.

Flash is dying / dead and has been for some time. Animation is going to HTML5 / CSS3 / Javascript, and most rich media is presented as straight up videos now.

Quote:

What's a PSD?

PhotoShop Document. Work files for photoshop projects.

[HiFlo]

WTFF!!!??

How do you say that you're in love with Photoshop but then a couple sentences later ask what a PSD is???!!!

TROLOLOLLOLOL

[megatron]

(10-14-2012 04:03 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  

WTFF!!!??

How do you say that you're in love with Photoshop but then a couple sentences later ask what a PSD is???!!!

TROLOLOLLOLOL

i knew that the PS stood for photoshop but i didnt know what he D was for. and like i sqid, i havent used photoshop seriously in 5 years or so

[FretDancer]

(10-14-2012 12:18 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

^^^ Flash is dying out. While there will be some need for it in multimedia oriented sites, it's becoming less useful a skill to have because so many sites are now being viewed on tablets and phones that don't display flash. It's getting to the point that the majority of my Web browsing is on my phone and I only look something up on my desktop when I have to.

Like Rah said, Flash is pretty much being replaced by HTML5 along with newer versions of CSS. I remember when Flashed used to be awesome, I've always wanted to be an awesome animator, however I gave up quickly. Now that I look back, I don't regret it much.

[Avarence]

Get a Bachelors in Computer Science or Information Technology, tout that alongside a portfolio of your web design work. You won't get serious enough consideration without a four-year degree.

[megatron]

(10-14-2012 10:05 PM)IQVX Wrote:  

Get a Bachelors in Computer Science or Information Technology, tout that alongside a portfolio of your web design work. You won't get serious enough consideration without a four-year degree.

Are you a web designer or work in a related field?

Interesting. What you're saying seems to be in direct opposition to what everyone else is saying here.

And while I want to learn to code Ruby, Python for Rails and Java eventually, maybe go into Android App Design, I'm going to focus on web design first.

So you think a good portfolio won't be good enough?

[speakeasy]

(10-14-2012 10:29 PM)megatron Wrote:  

(10-14-2012 10:05 PM)IQVX Wrote:  

Get a Bachelors in Computer Science or Information Technology, tout that alongside a portfolio of your web design work. You won't get serious enough consideration without a four-year degree.

Are you a web designer or work in a related field?

Interesting. What you're saying seems to be in direct opposition to what everyone else is saying here.

And while I want to learn to code Ruby, Python for Rails and Java eventually, maybe go into Android App Design, I'm going to focus on web design first.

So you think a good portfolio won't be good enough?

Some companies require a 4 year degree, but many do not, maybe even most. It helps though.

Don't spread yourself too thin trying to "do it all". If you want to learn Android, then do that, but getting into Python and Flash and Javascript and all this stuff might be a bit much.

[megatron]

(10-14-2012 10:57 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(10-14-2012 10:29 PM)megatron Wrote:  

(10-14-2012 10:05 PM)IQVX Wrote:  

Get a Bachelors in Computer Science or Information Technology, tout that alongside a portfolio of your web design work. You won't get serious enough consideration without a four-year degree.

Are you a web designer or work in a related field?

Interesting. What you're saying seems to be in direct opposition to what everyone else is saying here.

And while I want to learn to code Ruby, Python for Rails and Java eventually, maybe go into Android App Design, I'm going to focus on web design first.

So you think a good portfolio won't be good enough?

Some companies require a 4 year degree, but many do not, maybe even most. It helps though.

Don't spread yourself too thin trying to "do it all". If you want to learn Android, then do that, but getting into Python and Flash and Javascript and all this stuff might be a bit much.

You should have seen me two weeks ago. I was like a kid in candy store: "I wanna learn this and this and this and this!"

Yeah, I gotta focus and get really good at one thing before I start thinking about anything else. And that takes years and years of hard work and dedication.

[LoveBug]

Follow your dreams man, and do whatever you want to do. As has already been mentioned, the field of web design is becoming somewhat outsourced, from what I have seen. People who are net savvy know they can get people in India, Vietnam or wherever to custom design websites for far cheaper, although at this stage most businesses and everyday people now will still hire locals