[dk902]

I love lifting weights and I've been boxing quite seriously recently. I'm going to start training for my first fight in the ring.

I am already quite lean. I don't want to loose too much weight in the process. But due to the intensity of fight training, some is inevitable.

Also if I do too much conditioning I know my strength will suffer.

What experience do you guys have with this? In terms of how you adjusted your diet, gym routine and other things you did in order to see the best results?

[scorpion]

If you're doing intense martial arts training, you really can't be lifting more than twice a week at most.

I would recommend low-volume, low rep total body workouts twice a week just to keep up your strength. You will lose size inevitably with the heavy cardio work, though.

So like 3x5 sets of all the major lifts twice a week, alternating squats and deadlifts.

It's really not much, but in my experience if you're doing intense cardio with martial arts, your body can't take high volume weightlifting.

Just lift enough to minimize strength loss.

[one-two]

How much do you weigh and what is your body fat percent? When you say first fight in the ring, do you mean sparring a few rounds or an actual fight with one of you going down?

Big muscle is slow. It looks good, but it eats a ton of oxygen, so you loose your breath quickly. I had a tough time pacing myself in the ring, so I did a lot of running starting with 2 and gradually working my way to 5 miles. If it is your first time, breathing and balance are way more important than power, at least that's what my coach always told me. For lifting I did squats, dead lifts, and maybe some calves.

[Sherman]

I would do some research and try to find if there is genuine information anywhere on Bruce Lee's training program. He used weight lifting in his training and somehow managed to enhance his speed.

[Hades]

To be honest something like starting strength would bulk you up with muscle that might actually be a hindrance in martial arts. I would recommend doing a gymnastic workout for strength as you can greatly increase your functional strength without gaining extra pounds or ounces of what is essentially junk hypertrophy.

[dk902]

(10-09-2012 10:30 PM)one-two Wrote:  

How much do you weigh and what is your body fat percent? When you say first fight in the ring, do you mean sparring a few rounds or an actual fight with one of you going down?

Big muscle is slow. It looks good, but it eats a ton of oxygen, so you loose your breath quickly. I had a tough time pacing myself in the ring, so I did a lot of running starting with 2 and gradually working my way to 5 miles. If it is your first time, breathing and balance are way more important than power, at least that's what my coach always told me. For lifting I did squats, dead lifts, and maybe some calves.

I'm 5"10, 185lbs around 10% bodyfat.

If I fight light-heavyweight I'd be a stronger than guys in my class, but I'd be smaller height wise and would have to compensate with pressure, i.e. being very fit.

Yeah I like being strong and big but it doesn't really go with boxing. So it looks like a choice of one of the other, or reducing substantially the volume in the weight room.

[WanderingSoul]

Do a search, this has been covered.

Big muscles wont make you slow, and neither will Starting Strength.

Starting Strength won't bulk you up, your diet will.

Just because Bruce Lee was fast, doesn't mean you will be as well if you train like him.

I'm going to go shoot myself in the face....after I finish my squats at the gym.

[dk902]

(10-10-2012 01:21 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Do a search, this has been covered.

Big muscles wont make you slow, and neither will Starting Strength.

Starting Strength won't bulk you up, your diet will.

Just because Bruce Lee was fast, doesn't mean you will be as well if you train like him.

I'm going to go shoot myself in the face....after I finish my squats at the gym.

I know it's been covered, but couldn't find specific thread on the set topic.

I asked for practical advise from re weights and martial arts together.

Not tautologies about diet or about how training like Bruce Lee won't make me Bruce Lee.

[Duke Castile]

(10-10-2012 01:53 PM)dk902 Wrote:  

(10-10-2012 01:21 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Do a search, this has been covered.

Big muscles wont make you slow, and neither will Starting Strength.

Starting Strength won't bulk you up, your diet will.

Just because Bruce Lee was fast, doesn't mean you will be as well if you train like him.

I'm going to go shoot myself in the face....after I finish my squats at the gym.

I know it's been covered, but couldn't find specific thread on the set topic.

I asked for practical advise from re weights and martial arts together.

Not tautologies about diet or about how training like Bruce Lee won't make me Bruce Lee.

Being a smartass to a guy who has a lot of knowledge in both areas is probably a good place to start.....

[WanderingSoul]

(10-10-2012 01:53 PM)dk902 Wrote:  

I know it's been covered, but couldn't find specific thread on the set topic.

I asked for practical advise from re weights and martial arts together.

Not tautologies about diet or about how training like Bruce Lee won't make me Bruce Lee.

Did you just make that word up?

[dk902]

(10-10-2012 03:00 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(10-10-2012 01:53 PM)dk902 Wrote:  

I know it's been covered, but couldn't find specific thread on the set topic.

I asked for practical advise from re weights and martial arts together.

Not tautologies about diet or about how training like Bruce Lee won't make me Bruce Lee.

Did you just make that word up?

I think so!

In all seriousness I was hoping a bit more from you Rio because of your experience is all, but I digress.

[Sherman]

The below link is a discussion of Bruce Lee’s Strength training program on BodyBuilding.com. Go to reply 7 and you will see a pdf which has pictures for each exercise. I do the punching with dumbbell drill myself and it significantly increases my speed.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...153&page=1

[WanderingSoul]

(10-10-2012 04:11 PM)dk902 Wrote:  

I think so!

In all seriousness I was hoping a bit more from you Rio because of your experience is all, but I digress.

How many times per week are you boxing, at what intensity, and for how long?

You want to be training your sport about 3x as much as you train your strength. So if you are training 8-10 hours per week in boxing, I would do 2 lifting sessions per week. Each session will take 1-1.5 hours generally.

For strength training I would say do a program similar to starting strength, but 2x per week. Maybe Mondays and Thursdays. Always make sure to have at least 1 rest day per week.


It also depends on how far out you are from your fight, assuming you are fighting.

I am no expert. A good source of info you can check out is 8weeksout.com. There are lots of schools of thought of weight training for fighting. I've read a lot. Fisto and I have different approaches. He is also a pro fighter, and I am not. I am a hobbyist. Fisto likes Crossfit. I don't. We each have our reasons.

If you don't have a fight anytime soon, and you do not have much experience with compound lifts, I would do the Starting Strength routine 2x per week. I trained Jiu Jitsu 4x per week, and Starting Strength 3x per week, and I could handle the load. If you are training for a fight, you may not be able to.

Your goal should be on increasing your explosiveness. People will tell you to do plyometrics, but that is for advanced athletes who already have a very high strength base. For a novice to intermediate, the quickest and most efficient way to increase your explosiveness is to increase your max strength. The best way to do that is heavy compound lifts such as squats, deadlifts, power cleans, bent over rows, pull/chin ups, bench press, overhead press, push press, etc. with heavy weight and low reps.

I'm rambling now and I have to go ice my nose because it hurts like a bitch.

Joedefranco.com, 8weeskout.com, Sherdog Strength and Conditioning forum, startingstrength.com are all good sources to read up on, and all will have different approaches.

[BadWolf]

As a vet of martial arts (8 different ones), I will tell you this:

The most lethal martial art IMO is aikido. You don't need bulky muscles for martial arts and you are likely to do more damage to yourself by punching and kicking than you will to your attacker. I've smashed up my hand something fierce by doing this. Punching is absolutely the wrong way to disable someone in a fight. It takes about 3 seconds and 2 lbs of pressure to execute a technique and permanently disable someone or break a bone. If you really want to use your limbs to strike, an elbow to the face will be much more effective than any punch or kick. I have studied under one of the best Muay Thai teachers around who actually fights in Thailand and can say that I will NEVER use punches or kicks in a stand up fight. Aikido is a much safer and more graceful art, gets things done with a minimum of blood shed and requires almost 0 power.

If you want to get into great shape, try holding the horse stance for more than 2 minutes. Aikido's katas are fvcking brutal and a great way to condition yourself against pain.

[Aliblahba]

(10-10-2012 10:12 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

I'm rambling now and I have to go ice my nose because it hurts like a bitch.

And it'll hurt worse tomorrow unless you bring me some beer and cigs.

[WanderingSoul]

(10-10-2012 10:13 PM)BadWolf Wrote:  

As a vet of martial arts (8 different ones), I will tell you this:

The most lethal martial art IMO is aikido. You don't need bulky muscles for martial arts and you are likely to do more damage to yourself by punching and kicking than you will to your attacker. I've smashed up my hand something fierce by doing this. Punching is absolutely the wrong way to disable someone in a fight. It takes about 3 seconds and 2 lbs of pressure to execute a technique and permanently disable someone or break a bone. If you really want to use your limbs to strike, an elbow to the face will be much more effective than any punch or kick. I have studied under one of the best Muay Thai teachers around who actually fights in Thailand and can say that I will NEVER use punches or kicks in a stand up fight. Aikido is a much safer and more graceful art, gets things done with a minimum of blood shed and requires almost 0 power.

Oh fuck me. Yes, elbows are great. But I can tell you have never put this theory to the test. How could you possibly close the distance for an elbow, which is a close range technique, when someone is jabbing your face off? All it takes is jabs and front kicks and you will never close the range for that elbow.

I love Bas.

Aikido is a beautiful ART. And that's exactly what it is, an art.

I have no idea if this Aikdio guy is legit, and I don't really care. This is what would happen to an Aikido guy who tries to fight a real fighter.

[WanderingSoul]

(10-10-2012 10:17 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

And it'll hurt worse tomorrow unless you bring me some beer and cigs.

Sorry, Goldilocks. I'll be right there, baby.

[dk902]

Thanks for the detailed response Rio. Will reply when I'm not on my phone.

[BadWolf]

You are talking about MMA? That is nothing but sport and has no basis in reality. You should never EVER broadcast intent to fight or injure someone, that is quite possibly the stupidest thing people do. I'm not a fan of fighting for sport and I don't think that any of those people who do fight in the arenas are cool let alone smart. The MMA really sends out the wrong message as far as martial arts are concerned.

In a real life fighting situation, most people who fight or provoke a fight have 0 training. Anyone who knows a bit about fighting does their absolute best NOT to get involved. If I were aware that the other person was a black belt in ANYTHING, I would apologize, buy drinks and be on my way. It is not worth risking death or permanent disfigurement over what is likely a bravado fight. If you can't avoid the situation, then you should already be at a distance from the target where you can break his neck, or arm. Its very easy to turn an arm bar into a busted elbow. After a busted limb, only the most determined attacker will continue a fight. Your goal should be to break limbs/wrists/fingers and retreat as quickly as possible but do enough damage so that your attacker will not be able to pursue or pull a weapon. This bullshit about getting someone on the ground and beating him up and teaching him a lesson is crazy, its thug/douche thinking. IRL you will be jumped from behind from at least one other guy, its rarely 1 on 1.

I have never been in an altercation where my target was more than a foot or two away from me. Most drunks and douches will try and push you away first, or headbutt you. In both instances you should be aware of your first move... kicks and punches are not one hit kills, they are bravado moves. The Haymaker is the dumbest, most widely used move of drunks, punks and thugs, the second is the headlock. There is a very easy way of busting a kneecap of the person that puts you into a headlock. Most fights will occur out of bravado or white knighting. I don't fight unless I feel that my life is being threatened and then if I do I will do my best to kill or permanently injure my target, for the record, I have not killed anyone to date. Bas, this guy you worship is just another douche bag bar fighter. I've seen his videos. Take juijitsu instead, its far more brutal... puncturing someones eyes with your keys... thats survival fighting.. not this left, right, left, uppercut bs. BAM BAM BOOM.

You punch my face in, I'll be back with a desert eagle.

IRL we must disable the attacker as quickly as possible and flee the area.
Aside from ESL, I also teach Martial Arts. My teachers always told me that we learn martial arts so that we never have to fight. Martial art fighting carries the same charge as assault with a deadly weapon. Self Defense is just that, don't carry a knife or point a gun unless you fully intend to pull the trigger and when you do SHOOT TO KILL.

[scorpion]

Lol look at this guy talking about killing people, popping eyeballs and snapping necks in bar fights with his Aikido.

Between this post and your posts about being bullied, it's pretty clear you've got some serious mental/emotional baggage in regards to violence. You probably have some kind of PTSD going on.

You need to spend more time with a shrink and less time posting about your violent revenge fantasies on the internet.

[BadWolf]

Yeah right, cause learning to fight is all about competing in the octagon to show who has the biggest **** right?

[worldwidetraveler]

In before my martial arts is better than yours. Oh shit, too late...

[R Smoov]

my martial art is the coolest.

dont fuck with me!

[Duke Castile]

Badwolf...Your "target"? Really? You talk about buying a guy a beer and leaving in one sentence and the next you talk about trying to kill someone (and failing apparently) How many "life threatening" fights have you been in anyway?

Bas Rutten is very good at Jiu Jitsu and is widely considered an ELITE striker and if he kicked or punched you, you'd likely be unconscious after one hit.

You sound like your training consists of reading Black Belt Magazine.

Also, your views of MMA are beneath the dignity of criticism. It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

[Hades]

(10-10-2012 01:21 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Do a search, this has been covered.

Big muscles wont make you slow, and neither will Starting Strength.

Starting Strength won't bulk you up, your diet will.

Just because Bruce Lee was fast, doesn't mean you will be as well if you train like him.

I'm going to go shoot myself in the face....after I finish my squats at the gym.

All this is true given certain conditions, but I think that the advantages posed by a gymnastic workout more than make up for the hassle of having to master a new skillset (the basic gymnastic maneuvers).

While the starting strength program will not bulk you up if you don't eat to activate the newbie gains and I'm sure that you'll still be strong as hell, ever since I started doing gymnastics my mind-body connection is significantly better than it used to be.

I used to be pretty uncoordinated but ever since doing a lot of handstand, back, and leg work without shoes or gloves my proprioception is significantly better than it used to be when I only lifted weights. My hands and feet are also significantly stronger and more resistant to injury, which I think is important in a combat sport. Athleticism is about a lot more than just strength, and gymnastics covers more of those minor aspects than just lifting weights.