[Excelsior]

(08-28-2012 10:11 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(08-28-2012 01:31 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 05:46 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Indians have basically gone extinct.

Where? The USA?

In the USA they have gone physically extinct,

They did?

I see low numbers, but they still appear to exist.

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but worldwide Indians have gone culturally extinct.

They're still running entire countries and constituting major minorities in several others. A simple google search will tell you that. Much of traditional Indian culture still exists and is practiced regularly. It is far from extinct.

Quote:

You talked about present day Alaskan Indians, or Canadian Eskimo's, or Central American Mestizos. Guess what? Do you think these guys represent the same kind of culture that existed even two-hundred years ago?

Change/erosion =/= extinction.

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Western culture has completely dominated these societies to the point where very little of the old Indian way of life remains. That's why I said they've gone extinct.

Extinct:

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Adjective:
1. (of a species, family, or other larger group) Having no living members.
2. No longer in existence.

Synonyms:
dead - defunct

What you describe is not extinction, it is erosion or, at best, resulting from attempted annihilation. Native American culture is not extinct.

[Excelsior]

(08-28-2012 09:03 AM)basilransom Wrote:  

While Anglo countries may be the weakest when it comes to how their men treat women, it doesn't follow that the white men within it are the weakest as well.

Well...

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While Anglo countries may be the weakest when it comes to how their men treat women

...with this reality acknowledged, how exactly does one avoid that conclusion?
In most Anglo-Countries (the majority of which are far less diverse than the still clearly white dominated USA),there is really only one major group that has done most of the lawmaking and cultural engineering of said nations. The things we in the manosphere spend so much time complaining about (feminist influence on the laws, media, and politics of these societies) certainly weren't brought about the minorities in these societies. They aren't writing the laws and allowing feminists into their halls of power-they have had no leverage with which to do this.

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Are black and Hispanic men more beta, because their women are fat single mothers with major attitude, and they can't do shit about it? Are Asian men because they're less aggressive and less desired by women? Or white men, because their women are careerist feminists?

Black and some hispanic men have a thirstiness issue, and the concerns with Asian males are well documented. I can acknowledge the flaws of other groups while still acknowledging degrees of difference between them.

The fact is that no group has done more to aid the feminine imperative than Anglo-European men. They drew up most of the laws we bitch about, the largely female entitlements we bitch about (ex: welfare, which btw is a fairly large factor in the existence of said fat/loud/entitled black and hispanic hoodrat women you mentioned), create/promote most of the somewhat emasculating/anti-male media we bitch about, and by and large are the most commonly represented within male feminist and white-knight ranks (the epicenters of which are generally SWPL dominated).

Who else has done more to advance feminist ambition? Who else had had the power to do more to advance said ambition?

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I see some people wanting to pile on white men, and ignore the flaws of other men. This 'men of color' triumphalism is misguided and simply false.

Anglo-European white men, with some help from other North-Central European Germanic folk (Germans and Scandis mainly). These people have created some of the most advanced but heavily beta/white-knight/ballbusting-feminist infested societies on Earth. I merely argue that this is not a coincidence, but rather a common cultural thread that ought to be looked into (I'm sure many would like to ask "why" this is).

Southern European men have had less of a hand in this, and Eastern European men even less so. Their men are more apt to be men and they spend less time worrying about serving the feminine imperative (hence the existence of the likes of Putin or Berlusconi, both of whose personas would never be seen at the helm of a modern Anglosphere nation). Their balls are as intact as anyone else's, so this cannot be called merely a "white man" problem. That's too simple.

It is a cultural problem.

[raliv]

I think that there is somthing in our drinking water or somthing. Western men in developed countries must be getting exposed to chemicals that are wrecking natural testosterone levels.

serious.

[Basil Ransom]

Athlone, fair, solid points. You are approaching it from the perspective of who is responsible, and I think your analysis, at least as far as it concerns white women, is correct. I was looking at it on an individual basis, i.e. which group of men, in their personal lives, deal most effectively with women. There may be a reasonable 'winner', but it's not clear to me white men are clearly the worst. As for who is most responsible for the disarray of white Western women, yes, it is the fault mostly if not entirely of white men.

As for thirstiness, maybe so, but the men have still fundamentally failed to rein in their women, whether they're hoodrats or white trash. I do give Asians cred for that reason, because they keep their women relatively svelte. Ultimately, I think obesity is an issue of class, and the lower class you are, the more likely you are to have the attitudes, behaviors, and friends that will make you fat.

[RawGod]

(08-28-2012 10:14 PM)raliv Wrote:  

I think that there is somthing in our drinking water or somthing. Western men in developed countries must be getting exposed to chemicals that are wrecking natural testosterone levels.

serious.

Not sure if it's the drinking water, but there is definitely something going environmental going on with male hormones, and no-one is very interested in investigating.

One of my red-pill moments a few years ago was when I read an article in a New Zealand newspaper reporting that male sperm counts in that country had fallen by 50% in 40 years. The reporter even inserted some anti-male snark into the piece (NZ media is very, very feminist). When I googled and could find very little information on this topic, I realized that the media, government and the corporations don't give a shit. It's the duty of the 99% drones to suck it up, and the 1% only eat organic food and drink Fiji water anyway.

[Coyote]

Hey its Coyote here, the guy who wrote that crap Roosh posted that began this thread (crap as in verbal excrement – which can be a good thing at times). I live in Costa Rica and for many years now!. Do very well here…

Look brotherhood is not a culture thing. It's colorless and site specific.

Yeah there are many layers to why one area is different from another and there are all kinds of exceptions in each area. There is no pure area that men have great brotherhood, but examples of brotherhood in each area - where the incidence of brotherhood is higher or lower. The deal is, change starts with us brothers, one at a time.

So forget the "this group has it better or worse than that group." You can generalize like that as in the Russian thing (and I am a huge Putin fan), but that is not the point. Way off line with the cultural thing.

I gotta side track with a relevant Putin story: So Putin is in Crawford Texas at Bush's ranch giving the American people his televised condolences after 911. He says Americans are a great hard working creative people that have given the world many fantastic inventions and technology. Then right after that without breaking stride, he says (paraphrasing) "it's too bad that it was done at the expense of making your women into men!" – jajajaja after that I became a huge Putin fan (does anybody else remember that? Sometimes I think I dreamt it! Jajajaj).

Back on track: It's not so much of this model or that model. It’s a custom model. An appropriate model for the moment.

Now I have to be honest, I have been preaching this shit (many men are wimpy and many women are out of control macho) as a kung fu teacher building men's character for many years. Ten years studying ancient kung fu san soo and eight years teaching privately by invitation only. My top black belt (my assistant) was the bouncer at a great seaside bar in San Diego. We nicked named it "The lab." It was our own laboratory and we ran the place. So, this had two functions for me/us. Fucking and fighting. We tested what worked in both arenas. Lot of panties downed and blood spilled in and around that place.

The two are intertwined, but that is not the subject now (maybe another time).

What I wanted to say is that since those days and since that group of less than 20 men I taught (was independently wealthy by 30 so I was not into it for the money), I have not seen or felt another brotherhood. I see the potential for that here on this forum. I wrote Roosh the email after I saw his news letter and he provided me a link and I think this is the most culturally significant and realistic form I have ever seen. Thank you Roosh.

Where I live in Costa Rica I would hardly say the guys are like me. I am almost fucking 60 now but I tell chicks I am 47 (so the kung fu paid off in one way by staying in shape but the street fighting left me with many should we say sports injuries jajajajaj). Moreover, I have fucked so many and so much that my back is about shot! Jajajaja… but still banging a 23 year old strong "8." Look I have had a great alpha life that I would put up side by side with anybodies from Brad Pit to Valde Putin… Because of my Taoist and Buddhist kung fu philosophies I stove never to be famous or self serving. To me that makes my life comparable to theirs because I never had to deal with the bullshit of fame. Always stealth / like my kung fu teacher Jimmy H. Woo would say "the element of surprise." I was famous, but only in specific circles that I chose carefully.

So back to my points (I am also a long-winded writer SOB so bare with me), brotherhood and what to do about this out-of-control masculinist cultural shift (first of all let's call them what they are. A feminist would promote femininity – they promote masculinity – thus masculinists).

It's obvious that some forum members are astute and I am honored to be among many of you. You have some great points and I honor them; however, the guys in my community here in Costa Rica generally speaking are not like Americans or those on this forum. How could they be? So what they do, and how they game relates to their culture. We can only look and learn - rather than imitate or refine.

My kung fu teacher taught in regard to kung fu technique – "you never try to be like Joe over there. You watch Joe, see what he does well and learn from him. Maybe use some of his techniques, but never try to imitate Joe. You can never be as good a "Joe" as Joe is. You have to be yourself."

So more background from the old guy (who by the way has some major power plays left in him). I was a major player, laid at 13 to the hottest chick in my junior high school. Bad boy at high school, never took a book home, was only there to get laid. My first brotherhood challenge was when a guy I did not hang with, but respected (Bill – very cool guy) was not asked to accompany the homecoming queen to the homecoming event (or whatever it was. I never attended any high school function – it was all lame to me). They mailed my diploma and the only reason I graduated was my mom said all I had to do was get a diploma and she allowed me to write my own notes to clear my absence and do what I wanted no questions asked – sounded like a deal to me. BTW, I am a guy who was coming and going as he pleased at 12 years old and rose on the streets. So, the home coming queen who was a famous virgin asked me to accompany her to the prom after she had invited me to her house when she and Bill split up shortly after she was named homecoming queen.

I mean everyone wanted to be the first to fuck this chick and she was hot hot. So this was no ordinary dilemma/opportunity.

The thing was how she played it.

Now Bill was a good looking and popular kind of street kid not as rowdy as me but had some street cred. Me, I was into Harleys and street activities… It seemed to me that she had an ulterior motive to hurt Bill by not only dumping him before the prom (or whatever the fuck it was) - but by asking me to go with her to homecoming (to be the king and queen of the event – jackass shit). A guy he could not intimidate (as I liked to fight and was stuffing seniors in trash can during my freshman year). I played along to get next to her and she lived on the right side of the tracks – I lived on the left side (if you know what I mean). Kissed her, tried to see how far I could get with her, and felt I could bang her. Then I stopped. Never forget the night I was walking home about 10 pm from her place and I said to myself – what the fuck, he has been dating her since I can remember three or four years and now and she dumps him before the big night. That bitch is fucked up. Forget it. I am not going and I did not want to do that lame high school indoctrination shit on stage bla bla bla. I hated the establishment.

She was shocked I turned her down. My friends thought me lame. Could care less. Bill and I were never really hang out friends and I doubt he or anyone else ever really knew my true motives – which were "I ain't gonna let this bitch pull that off on him and maybe on me as well." I didn't even appear as that kind of guy then anyways (with scruples) but rather a serious business type. Most would have bet that I would have banged her and then dumped her before homecoming (truth told: I might have but there was not enough time).

My long way around point is, it's situational. Just like the Ticos here and any man anywhere else, you got to make your call, for yourself, in your situation. It's not a group thing or a cultural thing, although these factors influence people's thinking. I picked Bill over that beauty queen not cause I like Bill! Hahahah – the way the bitch played it was not right. So fuck it. I never did fuck her.

Justice: I was living on the oceanfront in Newport Beach California circa 1980 and was at a party when a girl walked up to me and said "someone over there wants to see you." Now I was 26 living with a lingerie model who was half American Indian and half Danish, and tasted like one. Jet black straight long Indian hair, tall and extroverted, strung out on cocaine (it was the 80's after all) and had a hot sister who she and I liked to fantasize about (we are talking good shit here) riding my beach cruizer on the board walk everyday surround by chicks (wealth breeds beauty and there was a lot of wealth in Newport). So I walk outside and there is the homecoming queen. Her skin was weathered from it looked like days on end in the sun and she was still hot, but haggard. I scoped her out and said a few words and turned and bailed.

Look she would have been just another fuck (although with notoriety) but the satisfaction I get now as a road-hard-and-put-away-wet former biker alpha is tremendous. I would have had to live with yeah I fucked him over to get a chance at fucking her. Naw. That shit was all wrong.

Those are the type of situational choices to which I referred to when I wrote about the brotherhood here in my area of Costa Rica (which does not apply to all Latinos in all countries – hardly), its site specific).

Again, it has something to do with culture and community and social economic levels but really it has everything to do with us; as men and as brothers.

Am I saying that if a chick dumped a guy you knew in high school then don't bang her – hell no. Like I said "site and situation specific". However, if women know you will fuck over someone either influential or important to you to get the bang, then they hold tremendous power of you. In my kung fu teaching and in my life everything all I have ever done has to do with freedom. Creating it, being it, living it. Freedom has always been the issue.

Bitches having power over you is like drugs or money having power over you: it restricts your freedom.

So, from a selfish point of view, and selfishness gets a bad rap at times, it behooves you to do the wrong thing because it shows that you are not as free as you should be. That is, the pussy has a power over you – that brothers, is unnatural.

Now that brings us full circle to my email that Roosh posted. Here in my community the pussy does not have that unnatural power and the guys would rather be free than slaves to tail. They prefer having some 5-6 level chick that they maintain and see what they can get on the side but not at the expense of fucking over a friend or someone in their wide circle. Example – I don't fuck the chicks in my village. Never have. There is a girl that works in a clothing store in my small village that I would break my rule for (always the fucking exception eh – breaking my own rules and how jacked up is that?). So I start gaming her. Ask her if she knows anyone to cook for me, etc. Get close to her and find out she has a boyfriend but she is giving me signals… (you have beautiful eyes, touching my hand to show me she feels cold, etc), anyways I see the guy one day. Rides up on a dinky lame motorcycle, overweight white, looks frumpy. Not from this area, never seen him before. My point is she is the strong 8 maybe 9 and is with a guy that is a 6 at best! So it seems to work in reverse as well. The hotter chick with the lesser guy. So the preference for alpha appears to be have less importance for the women as well. There is something sane about that. Nurosisless…

In the States the women live for the power to make you walk on your lips through busted glass to even get close to them. Not so much here. And if they can do that to you and your lips, that makes you undesirable in the long run and in the darkest of hearts - because you are controllable. Cageable. Now they may let you fuck em on a long term contract so to speak, but they will always want the stallion, rather than the gelding, so it will always be on their terms (unequal enslavement and endless "honey-do list crap). You will end up defining yourself according to her rather than you.

I'd rather jack off… or if you live where prostitution is legal than sex is even cheaper! Jajajajaja..

Bottom line is – who do you want to have the power. Them or us? It's up to you. It all comes down to defining yourself and having the ability to remain true to your self-definition. That is another kung fu concept and the essence of confidence. Confidence gets you laid.

I was with a 7 at an Italian restaurant on the balcony looking into her hazel eyes talking Spanish smack and poetry and she says out of the blue, "Your confidence is attractive." I was telling here shit I doubt anybody else would tell her, being myself, authentic to me. Not trying to say all the right things to get laid… That primordial thing that is attractive is refined from you site-specific choices and the consistency you have in them. They are - who you are. She recognized that and liked it.

A man is his thoughts, because his thoughts are his actions and his actions are his behavior and his behavior is his character. Once you develop that character, you have to have the confidence to maintain it even when staring down 7 through 10's - looking at the bang. Unless it's just one night stands, but that is fantasy fucking and a different ball game entirely. I like that game too but have done so much of it that it rings hallow a bit now.

The bottom line is choices, and choices equal character. We all play our hands where we are - including the guys in my bario. It’s the consistency of your play that defines you to yourself - and as importantly, to her. It tells her if you are a pedestal worshiper or if she is going to have to change her play to fit you, rather than you playing to her. Now you are a challenge. Women like that shit cause you are in command (now you gotta know how to command (another topic). Now you are possible long run material rather than frivolous in the moment plaything dancing on her strings, sniffing her panties at her leisure… You want to sniff at your leisure... no?

So yeah you can schmooze to get laid, and that’s alright, but after a while you may want some woman that is an asset rather than a deficit at your side. And where are you gonna find her? Not easy, unless the culture changes. Are you guys up to being an instrument of real change. That shit aint easy but nothing really good ever was. And crisis brings a shit load of opportunity! If you know how to game it.

[nadaSurf20]

Hey guys,
I am originally from Latin America, and let me tell you that some of the ideas here are idealized. What I mean by this is that the upper-middle class Latin America are insular and a very different community from the middle and lower classes. Latin American society is very stratified, what I mean is that unlike American which appears(at least to me) as egalitarian, there are very marked difference where people who have money and those who don't hang out.

I think that when people say that white men would kill it in Latin America, it's probably true but mostly with the indigenous/metizo middle/poor class girls. Actually, I would say the the upper-middle class are much more westernized, where divorce is common, I remember that back in my school most kids would come from divorced parents. In contrast, I have a poor uncle and he probably follows more of traditional stereotype, as his wife cheats on him and he still remains with her as he is doing it for their children, people call him "stepped on/pisado."

I think that in order to live the lifestyle, that Roosh glorifies you would have to be rich(latin american standards.) My friend's dad is a "new rich" meaning that he was poor and eventually got rich. And he has one main family(married) and then has side mistresses (which are usually hot but poor) that is why he can do that because the women depend on him financially, and don't work. Actually all those women want to have children with him so that he will pay them for life. Also that kids don't move out of the house when they are 18, but rather he is still paying for their college and other expenses.

[Americas]

For every alpha male in Latin America, there are dozens of betas; just like anywhere else.

Try going to Mexico and meeting some normal people, you will see in many instances the real dominant person of the family is the mother, not the father. The dominant female mother is a very real, and very widespread thing in many Latin American countries.

To think that Latinos are somehow ahead of any other group of men is really just a fantasy point of view.

[POASTER]

(01-03-2015 01:25 PM)Americas Wrote:  

The dominant female mother is a very real, and very widespread thing in many Latin American countries.

The dominant female mother is actually very real in every traditional culture I've interacted with - Asian, Middle Eastern, Latino, Indian, etc. But they usually spend a long time in the kitchen making delicious traditional dishes.

In these cultures women run the household and men run the greater society.

In modern America, men work all day then come home to their girlfriend and bastard child (who may or may not be his). Then the girlfriend, who is wearing sweatpants, will treat him to a nice dinner of microwaved Hotpockets. Afterwards she'll say "I'm tired! I wanna watch Netflix!!" and force the guy to go wash the dishes.

[The_CEO]

Also, it's not really the "game" of latino men per say, but catholic culture and spanish colonial tradition in these countries going back centuries. In Argentina, a lot of guys don't have a clue about game, but it's also a peculiar place so what we perceive as game wouldn't really apply without a lot of adjustments.

It's also frowned upon in some of these countries for older guys to be single and there is still a variety of "social policing" that would be restrictive for a "red pill" type of guy.

Is the culture with more masculine/dominant men and feminine/submissive women in these places more appealing?
Of course. I don't think game has much to do with it though.

[polymath]

I get the impression that hispanic men are born just as naïve as other guys, and then they have their hearts broken a few times before they realize that girls are playing the game just as much as men are.

[Americas]

(01-03-2015 11:45 PM)POASTER Wrote:  

The dominant female mother is actually very real in every traditional culture I've interacted with - Asian, Middle Eastern, Latino, Indian, etc. But they usually spend a long time in the kitchen making delicious traditional dishes.

In these cultures women run the household and men run the greater society.

In modern America, men work all day then come home to their girlfriend and bastard child (who may or may not be his). Then the girlfriend, who is wearing sweatpants, will treat him to a nice dinner of microwaved Hotpockets. Afterwards she'll say "I'm tired! I wanna watch Netflix!!" and force the guy to go wash the dishes.

I think it runs a little deeper than the traditional household-society paradigm.

What I mean by dominant, is just not dominant in the household, but dominant emotionally as well.

I'll use Mexico as the prime example because it's where I have run into the most mothers in Latin America.

Mothers in Mexico can be downright scary. Many emotionally control husbands and the entire family. They run things behind the scene, they exert an enormous amount of pressure on other family members, and they are the ones that most major decisions go through.

Many Latino fathers I have run into are actually quite passive and usually the "nice guy" of the family. This even extends into the economic sphere, because many families rely on the informal market for their finances and mothers are often the ones who run stores or the family business for the day-to-day operations.

Every family dynamic is different, sure, but I would rather deal with the wrath of a father than a mother in Mexico any day. Latinas can be cunning, smart, and particularly ruthless when they want to be. Ask many Mexican children and they probably fear their mother more than their father all things remaining equal.

Any girl that I have ever gamed in Latin America through a family dynamic, the goal is always to appease the mother. The mother is the one who decides whether their daughter is worthy to be with you and can be extremely judgmental during this process.

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I also think as far as the aesthetic paradigm is concerned, Latin America isn't too rosy either. On average, most Latinas balloon up after bearing children, not do they particularly take care of themselves physically in their own home. For every American girl in sweat pants, there is a Latina in something similar. I have spent time with mothers in their own homes, both attractive ones and unattractive ones, and there really isn't anything different with how they dress or look at home than your average American woman.

Sure, your typical Latina girl can cook a meal better than your average American girl, but I don't consider this a big deal in the grand scheme of things anyways.

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I think there are some things to learn from Latinos and some things to completely avoid. In fact, because of their often crass and chauvinistic behaviour, I often play the opposite game to get Latinas in bed and it works. For example, the high prevalence of cat-calling and machismo culture is something to completely disregard for game. Latinos are also often to persistent on targets, not knowing when to move on to something else.

However, Latinos body language and their ability to use language in a smart and sexual way is extremely valuable. I have watched many Latinos do extremely well because they are quite smooth when they know what they are doing. Some also have the ability to work very quickly on women and have perfected the ability to sweep girls off their feet particularly with their strong use of body language and escalation.

I have incorporated a lot of things into my style from aspects I have observed when in Latin America, but I have also totally disregarded other things. All of this to say, just like any other group of men out there, Latinos are a mixed bag and I don't think you can really put any group of men on a pedestal or rank them.