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How Not To Approach
#1

How Not To Approach

So I'm in this club in Split, Croatia. I notice all the tables have 'Reserved' signs sitting on them. I ignore the sign and sit down at one of them, near the back of the club. There are a few people dancing - some of the people seem to know each other, others are there on a pub crawl. None of the guys have any game at all. This is soon illuminated when two hot women walk in. They're actual Croatians, not foreign tourists. The two women, a blonde and a brunette, sit down in the booth in front of me, with their backs to me - actually the brunette has her back to me, the blonde is sitting sideways, talking to the brunette. The blonde notices me sitting there with a drink at my table, and is clearly interested - she keeps looking over at me, I think she blushed - there were obvious IOIs. Soon the brunette turns around to check me out - another IOI. My game is pretty poor so I was trying to figure out how to approach them without getting shot down, when I decided the best thing to do would be to let them sit there in suspense for a few minutes. These girls were clearly Croatians because they continued to look over at me, showing interest - women in Canada and the US would probably give one IOI then ignore me. Unless they were ugly, then they might continue looking over like the blonde at the table was doing - except this blonde was not ugly at all. She was hot. Exquisite features, well-dressed, tall, nice expensive looking eyeglasses. The brunette was hot also but I was unable to get a good look at her from where I was sitting.

Then a couple of new girls walk in and stand at the bar. Not attractive enough, but one of them is checking me out. Ok, here's an opportunity to make the girls at the table jealous. I go over to the girl at the bar and have a brief chat with her. She's from Bosnia. I ask her to sit at my table, she refuses, fine. I order another drink and go back to my table. The two women noticed, and the blonde was still giving me IOIs. Next I go to the bathroom and when I return I see a guy I have spoken to before. I say hello to him and shake his hand. This is on the dance floor where the women can see that I know somebody and am not here all by myself. Next I return to the table. As I pass by their table, I look at them, but they are pretending not to see me. I pass them and sit at my table again. I had been hoping for a welcome signal of some kind, then I would have sat down at their table instead and tried to talk to them. But I didn't get one, so I kept walking.

So now I'm back at my table, and I decide to sit there like a beta until I get a definite welcome signal. As if all the earlier IOIs weren't enough - seriously, living in Toronto will make you like this. It will destroy your confidence and you will never learn how to approach, you will develop self-defeating habits to help you avoid the pain of repeated failure - I can't emphasize that enough. However, it seems there are a lot of guys from other places who have no idea how to approach either. As I'm sitting there, some guy tries to approach these 2 women. His eyes are full of fear as he forces himself to lurch to their table. He's not smooth at all. He leans over them and says something only to have them shake their heads 'no' and ask him to leave. He slinks away with his tail between his legs. A few minutes later, another guy does the same thing. Eyes full of fear, leaning in over them, clearly drunk and with nothing interesting to say. After they send him on his way, he looks over at me with shame in his eyes before slinking off. Within the space of a few minutes, about a dozen guys try this. All of them are alone except once a pair of guys tries to hit on these women. All of them fail completely - the women are polite, much more polite than I am accustomed to seeing back home, but each time they shake their heads no and send the losers on their way. Then they go back to talking to each other, while the blonde occasionally glances over at me. They are putting up a shield by talking to each other - it's clear that they're not merely talking, they're doing it to put up a physical barrier to keep unwanted attention at bay. Nevertheless, they are still attracting attention. It's like a war, and these guys are planes being shot down. It's a massacre. They have no chance. But they still keep coming. Each one of these guys has the same expressions on his face as he approaches their table, as he's being shot down, and as he's leaving with his tail between his legs, looking around to see if anyone saw him fail. Yes, somebody saw them. I did. I hope I have never looked like that before. Unfortunately I probably have.

But not this time. After seeing 12 or so guys do exactly the same thing, and fail miserably, I knew what to do.

I got up and approached their table. But I approached from behind, not making a headlong rush in front of them. I approached calmly, with a normal smile on my face, not a stupid fake drunken grin. I had my drink - a mixed drink in a glass, in one hand. I stood behind their booth, between the blonde and the brunette, and rested one arm on the back of the booth, slowly and smoothly. I don't remember what I said, but it doesn't matter - they both turned around and were happy to see me. The blonde didn't speak English but the brunette did. So I talked to her for a good 10 minutes. During this, yet another guy came over - this one actually had the balls to sit down in the booth. They ignored him as he tried to talk to them. I pointed at him and asked the blonde "do you know this guy." She angrily turned on him and pointed to the dance floor, saying "Go! You go!" He ran away. After some more chatting I asked the brunette what she and the blonde were doing tomorrow, she said they were going to the beach, did I want to come, of course, I said give me your number, she grabbed my phone and punched in the number herself, then called herself to see if it worked. We were all smiling. My drink was finished. So I looked in my wallet and saw there was only 10 Kunas there. A drink costs at least 30 Kunas so I had to go find a bank machine. This is where I think I fucked up - the brunette saw me pull out my wallet, look in it, and seemed shocked - I think she thought that I thought she was a whore maybe she got insulted because she thought I was showing it to her. I don't know. Or maybe they WERE whores and when she saw I only had 10 Kunas on me at the moment, she assumed I was too poor to afford her services. Anyway, I explained that I needed to go get some money for drinks but I'm not sure if she understood. Because when I texted her the next day, there was no response. Nor was there a response when I texted the day after that. Oh well. She flaked on me. But at least I didn't get shot down like all those clowns. And after watching them, I know what not to look like when approaching.

Having the balls to approach is good, but it is pointless if you don't know what to do with that sort of confidence. In fact, approaching women when you have no clue how to approach, may eventually cause you to retreat from approaching because of the constant pain of failure. Approaching the wrong way could turn you from a normal, confident guy, into a guy who's afraid to approach. My approach in this case did not lead to ultimate success with either the blonde or the brunette, but it still made me feel good about myself because I know I did it the right way (initially). This particular approach, though a failure, makes me want to go out and try again. But if I had made a stupid approach like those other guys in the club, I'd be even more reluctant to go out and try approaching again. So approaching the right way is important. Don't just go out to approach blindly if you don't have a clue, and/or if you're in a bad place for guys (Toronto, D.C. etc.) because you'll make a fool of yourself. Do that enough times and you'll destroy your confidence. And with no confidence, you'll never get anything.
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#2

How Not To Approach

Excellent My Friend, You deserve props for having the balls to Approach, You are looking at this whole thing the wrong way, just remember this

" The only wrong Approach is the one that you didn't make"

If you are new at this , Do as many approaches as possible and don't dwell on what went wrong, just get yourself comfortable approaching.

Happy Hunting....

"You can not fake good kids" - Mike Pence
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#3

How Not To Approach

If you see other guys fail you do not approach.There is no need to increase the competition and boost the ego of girls.
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#4

How Not To Approach

Quote: (08-13-2012 08:23 PM)Lothario Wrote:  

Excellent My Friend, You deserve props for having the balls to Approach, You are looking at this whole thing the wrong way, just remember this

" The only wrong Approach is the one that you didn't make"

If you are new at this , Do as many approaches as possible and don't dwell on what went wrong, just get yourself comfortable approaching.

Happy Hunting....

I actually learned something from this approach, unlike all the approaches I did back home, where I learned nothing. The women back home are just out to destroy you. You don't receive any positive feedback so you never learn what you're doing wrong. In fact, maybe you're not even doing anything wrong, it's them, they're sick.

Quote: (08-14-2012 04:08 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

If you see other guys fail you do not approach.There is no need to increase the competition and boost the ego of girls.

I finally approached them despite all the rejections they were handing out because they had given me several IOIs, and because the guys doing the approaches clearly had no strategy or skills, they were just hoping to get lucky. I figured as long as I didn't act stupid like them, I'd have a chance. I was right. I number closed, but fucked up immediately afterwards. It's ok - next time I won't do that.
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#5

How Not To Approach

to me the obvious lesson from this story is approach asap and even faster if you got eye contact. that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO KEY. always always always approach if you got Eye contact no matter how sloppy it would come across. i doesn't matter. you know you could have easily talk to them right after they sat down, especially cause that blonde was already open to you. "hello beautiful blonde smurf.." was all you needed. really, orchestrating scenarios was totally unnecessary.


Quote: (08-14-2012 04:08 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

If you see other guys fail you do not approach.There is no need to increase the competition and boost the ego of girls.
huh? i don't see problem here. in fact, this is one of my favourite game, to wait and test the waters, watch how other dudes get handled and approach after them. it's fun
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#6

How Not To Approach

Quote: (08-14-2012 09:23 AM)XXL Wrote:  

to me the obvious lesson from this story is approach asap and even faster if you got eye contact. that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO KEY. always always always approach if you got Eye contact no matter how sloppy it would come across. i doesn't matter. you know you could have easily talk to them right after they sat down, especially cause that blonde was already open to you. "hello beautiful blonde smurf.." was all you needed. really, orchestrating scenarios was totally unnecessary.


Quote: (08-14-2012 04:08 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

If you see other guys fail you do not approach.There is no need to increase the competition and boost the ego of girls.
huh? i don't see problem here. in fact, this is one of my favourite game, to wait and test the waters, watch how other dudes get handled and approach after them. it's fun

1st, Kamaki is correct, for those other guys. None of them should have approached, after the 1st one got shot down. They were all approaching the same way, and without any expression of interest from the girls. They were all on a suicide mission. They had no chance.

But me, yes, I could have approached them immediately but I needed a few minutes to set things up better (talking to the Bosnian girl at the bar, shaking the guy's hand). And this time, I'm glad I waited, it gave me the opportunity to observe all those clowns crashing and burning. That showed me how not to approach them. Instead of using a frontal, untalented, high-energy approach, which wasn't working at all, I approached with a bit of class, and from a different direction.

Eye contact is the most important thing IMHO. If you haven't even gotten a sideways glance in your direction, then don't bother. I've spent some time watching guys crash and burn on impact; I've even done it myself on purpose as an experiment; and I think the lack of eye contact is the most common reason for failure. I've even tried to warn guys not to go in when the girl hasn't noticed him, but they do anyways and are always sorry they did. They see something they like, they run over and jabber away excitedly, only to be crushed when the girl goes back to talking to her friends, walks away, goes back to playing Angry Birds on her phone, tells him to fuck off, etc. The girl never once looks at him before he runs over. She doesn't know or care he exists, and she never will. Running over there in that situation is stupid. Appalling tactics, no comprehension of the situation and his place in it whatsoever. She has to express enough interest in you that you're worth looking at for at least a fraction of a second. After that, it's game on.

But just getting the eye contact isn't enough - I've blown too many opportunities after approaching after getting eye contact, with poor strategy, with nothing to say, saying all the wrong things, etc. That's what I need game for at this point. So I can stop ruining golden opportunities. Others with more advanced skills can surely manufacture opportunities out of thin air, but I don't pretend to be at that level. I just need to stop fucking up the opportunities that are already in front of me.
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#7

How Not To Approach

Quote: (08-14-2012 11:48 AM)allgood Wrote:  

for those other guys. None of them should have approached, after the 1st one got shot down. They were all approaching the same way, and without any expression of interest from the girls. They were all on a suicide mission. They had no chance.
i don't really see the problem here either, what other guys have to do with YOUR interaction with these girls. if they go blown out they're even more irrelevant.


Quote: (08-14-2012 11:48 AM)allgood Wrote:  

But me, yes, I could have approached them immediately but I needed a few minutes to set things up better (talking to the Bosnian girl at the bar, shaking the guy's hand). And this time, I'm glad I waited, it gave me the opportunity to observe all those clowns crashing and burning. That showed me how not to approach them. Instead of using a frontal, untalented, high-energy approach, which wasn't working at all, I approached with a bit of class, and from a different direction.
ok now i get it. you just look at pickup from different standpoint. it's not the particular style that is bad, it's about them, it's their execution that failed, their vibe, their inability to endure scepticism, lack of social skills, etc etc etc.


Quote: (08-14-2012 11:48 AM)allgood Wrote:  

Eye contact is the most important thing IMHO. If you haven't even gotten a sideways glance in your direction, then don't bother. I've spent some time watching guys crash and burn on impact; I've even done it myself on purpose as an experiment; and I think the lack of eye contact is the most common reason for failure.

...

The girl never once looks at him before he runs over. She doesn't know or care he exists, and she never will. Running over there in that situation is stupid. Appalling tactics, no comprehension of the situation and his place in it whatsoever. She has to express enough interest in you that you're worth looking at for at least a fraction of a second. After that, it's game on.
whoa.. i really can see your issues. well ok, the best what i can tell is that you're misguided and whatever the source you learned those rules from is inaccurate. what's more, you limit yourself by waiting for girls' signals which makes you passive.


Quote: (08-14-2012 11:48 AM)allgood Wrote:  

But just getting the eye contact isn't enough - I've blown too many opportunities after approaching after getting eye contact, with poor strategy, with nothing to say, saying all the wrong things, etc.
now this is the real reason why you look at this like you do.

ok it's like this. keep in mind that every single girl you in social situation that you COLD APPROACH will be either sceptic towards you or stiffled by you. more or less but it's always there. so the real skill is not predicting how specific set will react to you or how other guys mess up but to go in with the intention of making her comfortable with your presence. which most of the time it all comes down to dealing with her shyness or standofishness or innitial cold behaviour. the real goal of first 5-15 minutes is to warm her up to you, get the girl familiar with you, stay in group. doing anything confrontational or defensive will close her. and that's the end for you cause once she's closed towards you she's CLOSED and you can't do shit to influence her. but when you just meeting her, talking shit, flirting or dancing with her just out of fun (not sexually) then you give her time to get comfortable with you and get her interested in you which then can transform into being excited by physicality and eventually turned on.

so because other guys don't understand this dynamic they can't get anywhere cause they approach with black & white mindset (either she's down or not). they want to make super awesome impression in 5 seconds, they rush it and give up when shit goes bad. they really play russian roulette game, of course they get killed. their problem and lack of game can't be good reference for you to draw conclusions how to handle with particular group of girls.

nothing happens instantly. it's not like the girl already likes you and she's down from the start. it's never like that. it's never like "hey girls" and the girl judges you in the blink of an eye and consents and it goes smoothly all the way to the end. no, it takes patience, it takes time to open her up, to talk, to deal with obstacles, to make moves, to lead, to chill, to talk more, to bounce, etc. night is a marathon. approach girls expecting interaction to be long and fluid with possible re-openings.

BUILDING MOMENTUM in my signature adresses that


does that sound helpful?
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#8

How Not To Approach

Quote: (08-14-2012 01:20 PM)XXL Wrote:  

nothing happens instantly. it's not like the girl already likes you and she's down from the start. it's never like that. it's never like "hey girls" and the girl judges you in the blink of an eye and consents and it goes smoothly all the way to the end. no, it takes patience, it takes time to open her up, to talk, to deal with obstacles, to make moves, to lead, to chill, to talk more, to bounce, etc. night is a marathon. approach girls expecting interaction to be long and fluid with possible re-openings.

BUILDING MOMENTUM in my signature adresses that


does that sound helpful?

Yes, that does sound helpful - if I could become comfortable with that approach I can see how it would be more productive and more fun than waiting for a girl to notice me, then trying to game her. I hate going out to clubs and bars. It's a chore. But I don't know what else to do. So I'll try and use your momentum approach. Although it isn't me at all - it would require a lot of work to turn myself into that guy. Probably a very long time as well.

Thanks for the advice.
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#9

How Not To Approach

i can relate to that 'waiting for signals' syndrome. i used to be flashy, trying to make the girl notice me, give some kind of green light so that i could go in and i thought i could close the deal fast then since she was open right? i admit it was chore and most interaction were forced and not natural. it sucked. i was stressed and had performance anxiety.. horrible times.

so now.. by taking it slow approach and treating nightgame as a marathon it should automatically get the stress/anxiety off your shoulders cause look, you just there mingling, exploring interactions, having small talks, warming girls up to you, joking around, maybe dancing, maybe raising toasts, etc.. basically just checking potential of the venue (instead of target hunting). you get more relaxed, calm, chill and funny. no pressure, no rush, no chore, no 'blow me or blow me out' nonsense. as the night progresses, some girls are more open to you and then you make moves on them, escalate, lead them around, dance together, bounce somewhere or set up date and now they comply to you cause you allowed them to take time to warm up and get interested/excited by you being patient and not doing any stupid polarizing over the top shit before.

MOST IMPORTANTLY TO YOU..
by keeping sexual escalation on the low in public place you will be this cool classy socially savvy guy girls will want to meet better. so now you will find new social circles, meet new girl friends who know other girls, you will be invited to different events, social settings, birthday parties, hangouts etc etc.. so you won't be forced to hit clubs/bars all the time to chase tail since you will be IN social circle of hot girls that you don't even have to go out and cold approach. with some networking effort on your part it will snowball and you will get in more circles. yup, there are some sweet benefits of fighting the urge of gaming 2 HOT girls and befriending them, believe me.
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#10

How Not To Approach

It is the usual trap.You see an inferior guy getting rejected and you think if he got the balls to approach being inferior why not me?It is not exactly like that.Girls reactions are an indicator.If the inferior guy gets a kiss you would be able to bang her.But if he gets nothing you are likely to get nothing too.That is why there are guys who do not approach first but let other guys do the job for them in order to check girls reactions and come as trailers.

As for getting noticed it depends on what activity you are getting noticed and the context.Getting noticed to be greeted by stuff and important people is different to getting noticed standing with a beer in hand watching women.If you fall in the second category it is better not to get noticed before you approach but rely on surprise.I seldom give women the chance to notice me before I approach unless I have tested the waters and there are lots of connected females in the place.
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#11

How Not To Approach

Quote: (08-14-2012 04:13 PM)XXL Wrote:  

i can relate to that 'waiting for signals' syndrome. i used to be flashy, trying to make the girl notice me, give some kind of green light so that i could go in and i thought i could close the deal fast then since she was open right? i admit it was chore and most interaction were forced and not natural. it sucked. i was stressed and had performance anxiety.. horrible times.

so now.. by taking it slow approach and treating nightgame as a marathon it should automatically get the stress/anxiety off your shoulders cause look, you just there mingling, exploring interactions, having small talks, warming girls up to you, joking around, maybe dancing, maybe raising toasts, etc.. basically just checking potential of the venue (instead of target hunting). you get more relaxed, calm, chill and funny. no pressure, no rush, no chore, no 'blow me or blow me out' nonsense. as the night progresses, some girls are more open to you and then you make moves on them, escalate, lead them around, dance together, bounce somewhere or set up date and now they comply to you cause you allowed them to take time to warm up and get interested/excited by you being patient and not doing any stupid polarizing over the top shit before.

MOST IMPORTANTLY TO YOU..
by keeping sexual escalation on the low in public place you will be this cool classy socially savvy guy girls will want to meet better. so now you will find new social circles, meet new girl friends who know other girls, you will be invited to different events, social settings, birthday parties, hangouts etc etc.. so you won't be forced to hit clubs/bars all the time to chase tail since you will be IN social circle of hot girls that you don't even have to go out and cold approach. with some networking effort on your part it will snowball and you will get in more circles. yup, there are some sweet benefits of fighting the urge of gaming 2 HOT girls and befriending them, believe me.

My problem is, I'm completely fucking up situations where the girl clearly wants me to hit on her. So if I can't even pull that off, how am I supposed to get anywhere, going up to girls who haven't even shown any interest in me. I have nothing to say when I go up to these girls. This is why I wait for a signal of some kind - a glance, standing near me, something like that. I've spent years building defense mechanisms, failure avoidance mechanisms, to deal with the women in that feminist hellhole I lived in my whole life. I'm finally out of there but these are hard habits to break. Anyway, I'll see if I can somehow incorporate your strategy. What you're doing looks like fun, if you can do it - I've seen a guy doing this before and it works for him. Of course he didn't break it down like you have and from experience, hitting on just one girl in a club is usually so stressful it never occurred to me that I could learn to do this 'life of the party' thing. It sounds like you're getting energy from it, instead of it draining energy from you.
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#12

How Not To Approach

i understand your situation. you have some kind of complicated and inaccurate pickup map in head that gets you massively inside your head in social situations.


Quote: (08-14-2012 05:20 PM)allgood Wrote:  

I have nothing to say when I go up to these girls. This is why I wait for a signal of some kind - a glance, standing near me, something like that.
maybe VERBAL SKILLS in my signature will give you some perspective.


Quote: (08-14-2012 05:20 PM)allgood Wrote:  

hitting on just one girl in a club is usually so stressful
it IS kind of stressful and also weird as hell to be honest. everybody can see those guys walking around the club like a value leach, looking to trick some girl into bed with him. then they do that fast 'hit or miss' approach, get blown out and go back to their corner to look for other ones. some of them are shy some are wannabe players, that's ok, but the worst thing is they're too uptight, they can't relax and just chit chat with girls in general (even fatties whatever) and have a good time.


Quote: (08-14-2012 05:20 PM)allgood Wrote:  

it never occurred to me that I could learn to do this 'life of the party' thing. It sounds like you're getting energy from it, instead of it draining energy from you.
frankly, i'm not even the life of the party, i'm not one of these loud crazy dudes. i just socialize, talk shit with girls, play stupid games, open, reopen, dance and i act innocent in the venue (not predatory) so my blow outs are silly/subtle like girls walking away with smile. like last night, i approached a girl on the dancefloor, i reached out my both hands, she grab them, i gently pulled her in close to me and she just backed off saying "no no no" with big sweet smile (she initially thought we would just dance like friends), she excused herself cause her BF was in the venue. this is how blow outs look where you're cool chill and act innocent in public. (btw, girls can see i'm not innocent at all, it's the vibe, they know i hold back due to sharp social intelligence. the same effect is when a guy is martial artist and you can clearly see he's good at it but he avoids brawls by choice cause he doesn't want to demolish others).


PS.
Quote:Greek kamaki Wrote:

It is the usual trap.You see an inferior guy getting rejected and you think if he got the balls to approach being inferior why not me?It is not exactly like that.Girls reactions are an indicator.If the inferior guy gets a kiss you would be able to bang her.But if he gets nothing you are likely to get nothing too
completely weird conclusion and correlation, reeks of academia's white ivory tower armchair theorism. where does that data come from cause definitely not from real life experience
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#13

How Not To Approach

It is how it works in the western world.A kind girl will be kind to everybody.A horny girl will be horny to everybody.The difference is with the horny one the inferior guy will get some minutes of talking, the average guy will get a kiss, the superior guy will fuck her in second date and the super alpha guy will fuck her the same night (celebrity etc).With the unresponsive girl everyone from the inferior to the super duper guy will get his balls in a silver plate.That is why if you run pick up you likely destroy chances for other categories who would have then if you were not present to occupy the girl.
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#14

How Not To Approach

again, sounds like pure speculation to me cause girl's unresponsiveness might have some valid reasons or pure silly ones, you can never tell just by watching other dudes performance. just saying
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#15

How Not To Approach

bitches be weird.

in my town, one can use the exact same 'opener' and exact some B.L. & physicality and some groups will open right up, others will be like, "ewww you're not part of my social circle, get lost." if you're in the right frame of mind, you channel the so-called rejections into the 'fury' that tim from RSD talks about and keep hittin & hittin.

for the so-called rejections there are really 2 types: a) the type where the girl turns her back to you or her and her friend walk away, and b) the type where they give you weird looks like 'who are you?! why are you talking to me?!' For type A, you cant do nothing about it. For type B, if you can, just plow on, plow on. Change subjects for a couple things that chicks like: clothes, confidence, jealous friends. After 2 minutes they'll usually ask me if I'm on coke or they'll hook. one or the other. lol
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#16

How Not To Approach

In Greece too.Girls are very predictable in responses.They get bored to think too much.They just use some categories and put you into them from first second.
Polish girls are more daring they like to experiment.They are more open what we call here ''she goes looking for(her bad luck usually) meaning polish girls put down the firewalls to have more opportunities and in this case they are more open to scammers as well.Greek girls have firewall always on so you are often recognized as Troyan and put to chest.
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