[Roosh]

...is the hivemind of an important countercultural movement?

Maybe I'm thinking it's more important than it really is, but there really is no other board that covers the important topics facing Western men (and the intersection of those topics) like we do. Our ideas and belief system seem to be growing more than shrinking. I can read a Yahoo article and see comments that might as well have come from members here.

All successful countercultural movements end up filtering into the mainstream. Will that happen here? Or we will always be seen as on the fringe of society?

[Ramon Zarate]

I'm less qualified to talk about the nature of the forum than most on here (I only followed it a year) but if there's going to be a positive men's movement RVF is a good a source as any. Game, Travel and Lifestyle encompass what most younger men are looking to learn about really, especially in the West where we have so many issues facing men today. Speaking of the internet - it's done a lot to show individuals that they weren't the only one holding "radical" opinions about society and that other people had noticed these same things too (read: the red pill in our case). There's a reason the pickup community originated on the web. Roosh you have a great angle here with RVF because not only are men questioning mainstream ideas on female nature, they're questioning whether the society they live in truly benefits them and if there exist other societies that might benefit them more.

In the UK for example I notice that the Guardian's comment section is almost red-pill BTL on feminist articles. These are supposedly people who read the most PC paper in existence! Things are certainly changing, and RVF has the potential to be a hub for a countercultural movement. A few years more I think - opinion needs to shift a bit further and a few more men disillusioned before the forum makes it big.

[j r]

I think that part of what you are feeling is peak feminism.

The hardcore men rights stuff will likely never catch on. The white knighting urge within most men is too strong, plus it can get as ridiculous as feminism at times. At the same time, a lot of people are starting to see the Feministing/Jezebel brand of feminism for what it is. Most women aren't raging cunts. This is just a moment in western society that is bringing out some of the worst traits in women. It won't last forever. There's not enough money to keep funding it.

Once it becomes obvious to people that they are going to have to rely on themselves and not just wait for handouts from Uncle Sugar, you may well see a move back towards the traditional.

[Vicious]

I've mentioned earlier that there's a strong countercultural movement in Swe with its associated dens. American/english ones though... nope, can't actually think of any unless you include political/religious extremists which ultimately do not act from themselves but from a predefined set of rules.

[Veloce]

Roosh, if I started something like this board, I'd feel the same way...

...however...

Even if this board is something of a "hivemind" (great word btw) it's important that everyone act as if it wasn't. The minute ego gets involved is when things can turn south real quick. We might be doing something important on here, we might not. For some reason, the 21st law of power comes to mind, "Seem dumber than your mark."

The more this board retains its status as merely a means to freely exchange information, no matter how controversial or counter-current that information is, the better. Once it turns into a "movement" or "cause", the effectiveness of our information is curtailed.

[durangotang]

Unfortunately Roosh, the counterculture movement runs in opposition to well established institutions and laws. Men are not perceived as victims either, and psychologically will never be in the mind of women. So even if we are successful in spreading knowledge of game and how damaged western society has become to men, I doubt that women will do anything to lessen their self-interest in favor of anything that might benefit men or level the playing field. Throw in a legion of white knights to support them as well, and our numbers will always be too small.

Take a look at our opposition:

Women's Studies Programs Worldwide

The more women's studies programs in a country, the more wrecked the culture. Clearly the USA, United Kingdom and British Commonwealth countries (Canada, Australia, etc.) lead the list. Followed by Scandinavian and Germanic countries. Notice what countries don't have many of these programs? Eastern European countries, some Asian countries, and South American countries.

Unfortunately, for each man who reads your book, these departments are churning out multiple "womyn" with four year degrees of man hating bullshit. The only thing I can see changing this is the elimination of the welfare state, the collapse of government subsidized programs and loans in education, and a restoration of religious or conservative values. It would once again have to become trendy to be feminine, to stay at home and be a mom, and the economics would have to be there for a man to be able to work one job and support that lifestyle.

Even post economic collapse, I don't see that happening.

I would say this site is the nexus of the resistance, but our best hope as a western man is to flee to EE, SA, or Asia with capital, never to return to permanently live in western culture. Once there, it would be essential to aid locals in stopping the spread of "women's studies" or "gender studies" departments from infiltrating the minds of their young women. Rather than a successful counter culture turning the tide here, metaphorically speaking I see you more like a biblical Moses - guiding western men out of the desert and into a more hospitable environment. One trend is sure to continue, western male diaspora, and for that this site is ground zero.

[w00t]

I think it will only get worse personally. Thats why im getting the hell outta dodge soon.
Fuck western chicks i wanna hit up a poosy paradise before they get destroyed too.

[polymath]

I don't.

I think part of the reason that you feel that RVF is the hivemind of an important countercultural movement is because there are plenty of places in which people lash out at you for all sorts of reasons, even in the comments section on your own blog. But here, people afford you respect and also it's a self-selecting environment of people who share many of your opinions. So, for you, RVF appears far more different from the rest of the world than it does to everyone else, since most RVF members are not known in their private or professional lives for the opinions shared here.

Richard Nixon once talked of a "silent majority" among American conservatives. I think the same kind of thing applies to men who don't buy into the idea that men and women are identical in ability and tendency. They may tune out their wives and girlfriends when they say uppity things in public, but when these men have a veil of anonymity behind which to speak -- like on this forum, or on the comments page of a newspaper -- they tend to be more candid.

The way I see it, men and women have been fighting since the dawn of time, bickering and power-grabbing and scolding each other, and eventually fucking to release all that tension. I'm not too worried about feminism, because I don't pay attention to what ugly fat women want anyway. And the truth is, even societies with rigid traditions (Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc) offer their own sources of frustration for a sexually motivated man.

[MikeCF]

More men think what we think.

Men remain terrified of saying what we think.

Thus you'll read things on anonymous message boards/comments to articles that you won't hear in real life.

Minds are being liberated. That's a good start.

[OGNorCal707]

I'd say it's counter-culture in the sense of men taking the "red pill" and reacting against feminism and all the B.S. of male/female dynamics in the U.S. However, I think it pretty much stops there, a lot of members are extremely conservative, right-wing, and have completely mainstream views when it comes to other issues such as politics and culture.

[Luvianka]

I think this forum is the most important of its kind in the Internet since it's the only one which has a truly intercultural dimension. The other day I was reading Roosh's book 'Don't Bang Denmark'. I found his remarks about the Scandinavic Jante Law institutions as very valuable. While you can agree and even admire the existence of an economic system that guarantees a minimum and decent standard of living for a country's population, you also understand and get aware of the kind of effects that such a system introduces in the mating market. Would this kind of open and candid dialogue be possible in another countercultural, PUA, MRA (or whatever the tag you want to give it) site be possible? I don’t think so. Other sites (I don’t want to name them) are too American self centered. True, the reality American men face every day is awful and such reality has produced a wide countercultural movement which ranges from revival religious conservative movements to racially aware white political groups. Their claims can be legitimate, I am not going to discuss that, but their audience and the topics they discuss get limited to the American sphere.
On the other hand, and due to Roosh’s international and broad experience, all of us who don’t belong to the Anglosphere can participate in the forum, learning from other countries, providing our own experience and widening the topics’ scope.

[Roosh]

I do admit that if you're visiting this site all day, you do get a warped perception of what the "average guy" thinks about things.

[el mechanico]

Some shit is going to happen. Some fucked up shit and this place will get overexposure. When guys see what's been going on here it's going to get them thinking. Roosh is going to get rich and probably some T.V offers. He may even become a villainous celebrity/activist like a cross between Adam Corolla and Joey Butafucco. We'll see but I think Roosh should rent a billboard in DC that says RooshV forum and has a picture of some dude dating way down on it.

[rlongo924]

I like the forum because of the range of stuff that's covered. The variety of topics that everyone discusses can't really be found on one single forum anywhere else.

It's definitely unique, that's for sure.

[LowerCaseG]

(08-06-2012 03:26 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Some shit is going to happen. Some fucked up shit and this place will get overexposure. When guys see what's been going on here it's going to get them thinking. Roosh is going to get rich and probably some T.V offers. He may even become a villainous celebrity/activist like a cross between Adam Corolla and Joey Butafucco. We'll see but I think Roosh should rent a billboard in DC that says RooshV forum and has a picture of some dude dating way down on it.

Im in $50 towards the billboard.

[MikeCF]

(08-06-2012 03:18 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I do admit that if you're visiting this site all day, you do get a warped perception of what the "average guy" thinks about things.

Sure. However, I'm sure you've noticed this major disconnect:

1. What articles say;
2. What comments to those articles say.

The chattering class keeps telling us that men are to blame for all social ills.

Although this is only one man']s experience, I've been around a while. I've see a major change.

Ten years ago, the comments to those articles wouldn't be that critical.

Now-a-days, outside of "safe houses" like Jezebel, and the comments are extremely critical. Men are speaking out (at least when it doesn't mean risking his livelihood).

You can tell that we are making headway by the chattering classes response to our message. If we were irrelevant, we'd be ignored as the gnats that we are.

We are now being labelled "bullies." The Southern Poverty Law Center wants to censor us.

There'd be no need to shut us down if our message were not powerful and becoming more accepted.

[Roosh]

I wouldn't mind ponying up some cash for an advertisement on a blue pill site.

We can put up this image (http://i.imgur.com/uXujM.jpg ) with text that says "Tired of dating down?"

Also, the forum is becoming its own beast. It now uses 500 gigabytes of bandwidth a month, which is insane.

[OGNorCal707]

(08-06-2012 03:26 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Some shit is going to happen. Some fucked up shit and this place will get overexposure. When guys see what's been going on here it's going to get them thinking. Roosh is going to get rich and probably some T.V offers. He may even become a villainous celebrity/activist like a cross between Adam Corolla and Joey Butafucco. We'll see but I think Roosh should rent a billboard in DC that says RooshV forum and has a picture of some dude dating way down on it.

I do kind of agree that I can see Roosh becoming rich, the blog/forum blowing up even bigger, and Roosh becoming somewhat of a well known celebrity. However, I think the forum getting huge and being exposed to women and the mainstream culture would be a very bad move.

Example we don't need white knights trolling the site, spammers, and feminists trying to argue and condemn every logical post a man makes, Roosh would have to hire and pay a huge team of moderators to constantly moderate that shit 24/7. Also can you imagine Oprah and the bitches on the View bashing Roosh and the Roosh V forum crew? Or how about all the douches at Fox News like Hannity, Beck, and O'Reily trying to vilifying us.

P.S. I know Mech was mostly kidding about the billboard thing, but I think we got to keep this forum elite and fresh, no room for white knights, beta males, manginas, and feminists here.

[el mechanico]

(08-06-2012 03:54 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I wouldn't mind ponying up some cash for an advertisement on a blue pill site.

We can put up this image (http://i.imgur.com/uXujM.jpg )

with text that says "Tired of dating down?"

Dammit! I hate that picture. If you need some extra scratch for that link to your paypal on a new thread or something.

[durangotang]

(08-06-2012 03:57 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(08-06-2012 03:54 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I wouldn't mind ponying up some cash for an advertisement on a blue pill site.

We can put up this image (http://i.imgur.com/uXujM.jpg )

with text that says "Tired of dating down?"

Dammit! I hate that picture. If you need some extra scratch for that link to your paypal on a new thread or something.

Roosh may one day be famous, but the dude in that photo is infamous.

[Samseau]

All I know is, the people in power will do everything they can to prevent this place from becoming too famous or popular.


I also know that if this place became famous, it would be irreparably corrupted and lose its original message, just like any movement that becomes famous does.

And moderating this place would require dozens of new moderators, and would practically be a full time job.



While I wish Roosh as much success and happiness as possible, I hope this place doesn't grow anymore than it has.

[durangotang]

(08-06-2012 04:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

All I know is, the people in power will do everything they can to prevent this place from becoming too famous or popular.

I am more of a conspiracy theorist than most, but this forum barely registers as a blip on the radar. I doubt the "powers that be" or whomever is pulling the levers cares too much about this site or any MRA site. What has there been, a condemnation by the SPLC? As long as we keep it 18+ and Roosh keeps is nose clean, I don't see any problems.

I hope the forum continues to grow. It is well moderated now and if it gets much bigger Roosh can appoint another moderator to keep things in order. Monthly registration really seems to help.

[delicioustacos]

(08-06-2012 03:49 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(08-06-2012 03:18 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I do admit that if you're visiting this site all day, you do get a warped perception of what the "average guy" thinks about things.

Sure. However, I'm sure you've noticed this major disconnect:

1. What articles say;
2. What comments to those articles say.

The chattering class keeps telling us that men are to blame for all social ills.

Although this is only one man']s experience, I've been around a while. I've see a major change.

Ten years ago, the comments to those articles wouldn't be that critical.

Now-a-days, outside of "safe houses" like Jezebel, and the comments are extremely critical. Men are speaking out (at least when it doesn't mean risking his livelihood).

You can tell that we are making headway by the chattering classes response to our message. If we were irrelevant, we'd be ignored as the gnats that we are.

We are now being labelled "bullies." The Southern Poverty Law Center wants to censor us.

There'd be no need to shut us down if our message were not powerful and becoming more accepted.

Even Jezebel comments feature legitimate dissent from dudes now. "Jezebel commenters" used to be a punchline for me, but they opened up the comment system and now it seems like every controversial article has about 20% dudes in the discussion. And they're not taking any shit from the likes of Hugo Schwyzer.

Maybe this will bring the hated Jezebel back to what it used to be-- a good site with funny writers. There used to be shit like Tracie "Slut Machine" Egan digging into the phenomenon of girls cumming from being raped... crazy, honest, fascinating stuff. That was before she was relegated to reposting Kim Kardashian's tweets for making a rape joke in a room full of feminists and not backing down on it.

Or maybe it'll stay Fox News for self-pitying twats, who knows.

[j r]

The most effective thing would be to start writing for mainstream consumption and present red-pill arguments in a way that is above reproach. Kind of like when Jackie Robinson came into the majors he had to put up with a lot of abuse and cheap shots, but he couldn't retaliate.

So, let's say that someone writes a piece on why some women feel the need to spend tens of thousands on lavish weddings as opposed to making investments in their future. The piece would have to be written in such a way that it asked more questions than it answered and didn't make any value judgments of the women in question. Of course that piece would be attacked by the Jezebels and Pandagons for even raising those questions, but the question would still be out there presented in a logical manner. Obviously logic won't convince feminists, but it would reach more men and more men would begin to realize that the feminists aren't arguing in good faith.

At the same time you drop some game bait in there, but you don't call it game. You just talk about what it means to be a grown-ass man instead of one of these immature boys stuck in extended adolescence. You've got plenty of guys who don't want to drop 10k on a ring and 30k on a wedding, but they just don't know how to say no. They're afraid if they don't give their women what they demand, then those women will walk. Of course, if you're a guy with some game and your woman threatens to walk, you just do the polite thing and hold the door open for her. And let her know that once she walks away, there's no coming back. That's a hard thing for many men to do, but it would be easier if they had some faith in the correctness of their ideas instead of internalizing all these images of males being portrayed as uncivilized children who would be best just to shut up and let their wives make all the decisions. If feminism is really about equality, then let's have real conversations about the need for a ten thousand dollar wedding ring.

So much of contemporary feminism is about cognitive dissidence that if you take it at face value, it deconstructs itself. Often, the most effective thing that you can do is to raise the question and then let people find the answer on their own.

[Runnin]

The reason I decided to give this forum a shot is the variety it brings.

When I was a regular on this other travel forum, it was a rule of thumb you just talked about travel concerning prices and not people. Here you can go to the travel forum, talk about people, talk about the women in an area, and useful info really. We never really talk about the demographics and attitudes about an area like the people here do. Not only do you get to learn about cost of traveling to an area but what you will be getting into when you travel there.