[Nomad77]

Most guys wouldn’t think of Game as a drug but it is as much of a drug as gambling, sex, or any other kind of addiction.
You can become addicted to gaming and it can have some real negative effects. Let me tell you about my own experiences…

At this point in my life, after chasing women for years, I can’t be anywhere without being on the lookout for some sort
of opportunity. IF I see a good opportunity to pick up a woman, I almost can’t walk away from it. Now, why is this bad?
Well, because there have been times when I was with my mother, my niece, business associates that I had to really control
myself. Even out on dates, I am still looking. The high comes from the initial chase: the pickup. The follow through, the middle
and closing is grunt work and not as much fun. It’s more fun to go out and pickup new women than to date the ones
I already know. So you get on this cycle of meeting, sometimes making out or SNL, but not building relationships.

And this is the other problem gaming creates. I practically can’t be in a real relationship any more. Spending a few days with the
same girl drives me nuts. When we go out she notices that I am not all there. My focus is not 100% on her because I am
always scanning for pickup opportunities, can’t turn it off. I am good enough that she doesn’t know exactly what is going
on but she senses something. Sometimes, I can’t even help myself. Today I arranged to meet one girl somewhere,
got there and saw this other hot girl and while I couldn’t pick her up in front of this girl, I had to meet her and of course
the other girl wasn’t too happy about this but I just didn’t care. I can’t focus enough on just one girl long enough to really
build a relationship. The moment I run into any problems, I just go right out and meet more girls.

The challenge and novelty of picking up new girls has become addictive: a drug with very real negative effects. I am tired of
meeting new girls and running game. I really want to have a real relationship and be able to relax but it’s something I will
have to work at now. I have to make a serious effort about not picking up more girls and to try and focus on ones
I already know. Given all of the BS you have to put up with, especially here in the US, it’s really hard. Ultimately,
a good life is all about balance. As my mother likes to say, too much of something is good for nothing…

[Samseau]

If you keep banging and gaming sluts, you'll eventually get into a relationship when you meet a girl you click with on many different levels. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. Keep your game tight and enjoy the ride.


And if you feel like you'd rather pick up new girls than try to bang the girl you're out on a date with, then she wasn't worth it to begin with. The way I save time is by never chasing women and just having a bangathon through them.

Sure enough, you'll find a girl who chases your ass around, and if you so choose can easily turn into a girlfriend.

[Giovonny]

I think I'm addicted to game. I keep telling myself that its my new passion in life. I was recently in love with a girl and it was going great. I left her for the game. At first, I was sad but now I happy with my decision. Fuck, I don't know, It was an honest decision. I choose the game over love. I love being a bachelor more then anything. The freedom, the challenge, the excitement.

Addiction? Passion? Love? Whatever it is, I got it bad!

[Nomad77]

Well, I don't know how guys do it but I rather live by myself than live with someone I don't really care about that much. It's just so much more work...

Nothing wrong with Game but I think, like with anything else, there has to be a balance. It can start impacting your work etc.

(07-31-2012 11:55 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I think I'm addicted to game. I keep telling myself that its my new passion in life. I was recently in love with a girl and it was going great. I left her for the game. At first, I was sad but now I happy with my decision. Fuck, I don't know, It was an honest decision. I choose the game over love. I love being a bachelor more then anything. The freedom, the challenge, the excitement.

Addiction? Passion? Love? Whatever it is, I got it bad!

[el mechanico]

(07-31-2012 11:55 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I think I'm addicted to game. I keep telling myself that its my new passion in life. I was recently in love with a girl and it was going great. I left her for the game. At first, I was sad but now I happy with my decision. Fuck, I don't know, It was an honest decision. I choose the game over love. I love being a bachelor more then anything. The freedom, the challenge, the excitement.

Addiction? Passion? Love? Whatever it is, I got it bad!

I got that too. I have a girlfriend now? WTF? What the fuck am I gonna do now? Make some BBQ with her and friends on Sunday? Stop posting here? What am I going to do in my office? Look at engagement rings? No more POF sluts? How could one make such a transition from 24/7 poon hound to boyfriend?

I thought about this last night on a date. Retail mall girl, hot, ethnic, heels, friendly and into me. I would LTR this girl. But how? It would ruin my life.

Could you be passionate about planning a trip abroad that you're bringing your girlfriend on? Is it possible???

I keep my passport in my laptop bag and about every night I pull it out and look at it. I'm obsessed with it. I grab it and think FUCK YEA! Pussy!

I do believe that there's many posters here who are really just trying to get a girlfriend that's hot or passable.

[Nomad77]

I agree. Many guys do just want a hot/nice girlfriend to settle down with.

Then are they are the other guys like you and me The Game is within us, it's who we are. Not sure what the answer is. I thought I would get tired of it but whenever I decide to take the settle down route within two weeks I get bored out of my fucking mind.

(07-31-2012 12:15 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(07-31-2012 11:55 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I think I'm addicted to game. I keep telling myself that its my new passion in life. I was recently in love with a girl and it was going great. I left her for the game. At first, I was sad but now I happy with my decision. Fuck, I don't know, It was an honest decision. I choose the game over love. I love being a bachelor more then anything. The freedom, the challenge, the excitement.

Addiction? Passion? Love? Whatever it is, I got it bad!

I got that too. I have a girlfriend now? WTF? What the fuck am I gonna do now? Make some BBQ with her and friends on Sunday? Stop posting here? What am I going to do in my office? Look at engagement rings? No more POF sluts? How could one make such a transition from 24/7 poon hound to boyfriend?

I thought about this last night on a date. Retail mall girl, hot, ethnic, heels, friendly and into me. I would LTR this girl. But how? It would ruin my life.

Could you be passionate about planning a trip abroad that you're bringing your girlfriend on? Is it possible???

I keep my passport in my laptop bag and about every night I pull it out and look at it. I'm obsessed with it. I grab it and think FUCK YEA! Pussy!

I do believe that there's many posters here who are really just trying to get a girlfriend that's hot or passable.

[WestCoast]

It's a bit of an odd question since life itself is just a big game. You can be lights out tomorrow or lights out in 50 years.

The "dark side" is the realization that everything is just a big "fasad" you realize it for what it is how do you ever turn back? you have seen too much. Too much success is almost bad, you get into this state where you know all you have to do it just push a little harder and you'll get what you want with due time.

Learning how to "game" changes you forever.

The manoshphere itself is a great subset for "game". The guys who really get it only want to help other guys succeed, the ones who don't quite get it keep looking out for themselves.

Again the white knights out there are really the ones preventing the game community from having a substantial impact on our society. Force guys to be weary to help unless they become incredibly successful and can't really be stopped.

This is pretty much like that "nothing compares to the game" thread. Nothing really does because it's probably the worst drug out there.

[soup]

Game to keep oneitis at bay.

I've got too much stuff going on right now to get into an LTR.

I've had them before, and it is a major power suck.

If I had to choose I would probably hang with a hot bitch for a while then slog through all the mediocre bitches I've been banging lately. Maybe it's the elitist side of me.

Women are tools. For me, the cat is out of the bag. I've learned too much about women to trust them at all with any kind of responsibility in my life.

[Noir]

I'm like this and to be honest I think it is partially ego based. I want to bed more girls, I want to meet more girls and I always want fresh women. I've fucked up my own relationships with women by running away from commitment out of fear of becoming lazy rather than fear of commitment. On a personal level I think it is because the chase motivates me to continuously improve myself. I know of countless people who are in relationships who have let themselves go, both intellectually and physically because they do not need to work for that pussy. They become comfortable in their comfort zones and they look at themselves in the mirror or notice themselves become fucking boring but they numb that truth with the affection they receive from that one person. All the people I know in relationships have become fatter, lazier, more passive, lost interests and have seen their passions/hobbies disappear, all to fill that little hole in their soul which their relationship band-aids up. Now, this is not to say that I am anti-relationship. I have found a few women who have met my standards and I would gladly get into a relationship with, however it would not be monogamous. I don't care if she fucks other guys as long for that would be hypocritical when I am out hitting on other women and bedding the ones I want to. Last year perhaps I would have not been cool with that, but I couldn't give a fuck anymore (letting go of the negative ego-based relation). I acknowledge the fact that if I had a LTR I would be limited in the lifestyle I lead. Less hobbies, less time for sports with friends, less time for working on side projects, all things which help me improve myself.

The game keeps you in check, keeps you real to your roots and as long as you know what you want and it is congruent with your beliefs and direction you wanna go with in life, I don't see it as bad in my life. Be careful though, you gotta find a balance.

A friend of mine recently came out of a relationship of 3.5 years in which the girl cheated on him with 2 guys, once in the first year and then at the end of the relationship. This guy now is lost, his self-esteem is low and he is trying to handle the situation and get by. Of course I am helping him, but the negative tendencies are still there; he still messages his ex-gf and is still beta when she contacts him, like a puppy wagging its tail once it receives its attention. I say this at the top of my lungs and I say it proudly... FUCK THAT. I would rather be addicted to the game that be addicted to one woman and give her all my power (See the ego talking, keeping me in check?).

I think that instead of terming this as an addiction and yourself as being an outlier in the social world, just let it be and accept it for what it is. You're a social person who enjoys sharing interactions, both physical and intellectual with beautiful women. The less attention you give it as a problem, the less problematic it will be.. So many guys kill to be in a position like yours, a position of power and choice. It's an issue if you make it to be one. I accept that I enjoy the game and I play it to my benefit, regarding jobs I have had with interacting with customers, making new friends, being a cool person and living towards my values. I have already accepted that game is something that benefits me towards taking my life in the direction I want it to go however, the day I wanna settle down or detach from it (if ever) I will not be ashamed to because it is not an addiction, it is just a power/skill that we have. Don't get let the excitement of the power overrule what you want to do, your desires. From what you wrote, you seemed concerned about it impacting your work. I would say sort out your priorities and see how they conflict with your desires. When I am at the gym, I am at the gym 100%. When I am working I am working 100%. Some days I will hit on women at the gym, other days I am completely focused.

Don't treat it as an addiction, treat it as a blessing. Ever since I started doing that, my relationship related worries etc. have disappeared. I wake up every morning with a smile on my face.

The day I wake up and that smile is absent is the day I will start worrying.

[Nomad77]

I have found that in reality few guys are willing to put in the work to change things for themselves. I have friends who complain about not getting women but yet they won't even go out with me to try.

As my mother likes to say: you can bring the horse to the water but you can't make it drink...

(07-31-2012 12:26 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

It's a bit of an odd question since life itself is just a big game. You can be lights out tomorrow or lights out in 50 years.

The "dark side" is the realization that everything is just a big "fasad" you realize it for what it is how do you ever turn back? you have seen too much. Too much success is almost bad, you get into this state where you know all you have to do it just push a little harder and you'll get what you want with due time.

Learning how to "game" changes you forever.

The manoshphere itself is a great subset for "game". The guys who really get it only want to help other guys succeed, the ones who don't quite get it keep looking out for themselves.

Again the white knights out there are really the ones preventing the game community from having a substantial impact on our society. Force guys to be weary to help unless they become incredibly successful and can't really be stopped.

[el mechanico]

An old guy told me when I was a kid "Everything you do is for pussy" Those shoes you picked. Pussy. That car you fixed up. Pussy. Every single thing. It stuck with me.

[Nomad77]

Yep it's true. In the end that's what it's all about...

(07-31-2012 12:29 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

An old guy told me when I was a kid "Everything you do is for pussy" Those shoes you picked. Pussy. That car you fixed up. Pussy. Every single thing. It stuck with me.

[docinsc]

I have the same dilemma. I used to look at players with disgust, although it was probably more out of envy. They were getting all the hot chicks while I drank my vodka, too shy to talk to a girl. I was looking for a wife, I had convinced myself. Fast forward 5 years, I have hit the gym, become successful, and dating like a madman to 8, 9 and 10s. I would like to convince myself I havent changed and still looking for a wife, but I lose interest in a girl before I even pull out (no exaggeration). Its just so easy anymore, I actually enjoy the chase and the expectation of the catch more than the catch. I'd like to think I havent 'met the right one yet" to take me out of the game but I am starting to doubt that as well. I fear the gravy train has to end soon, that I will be alone and old, but I am still getting the young 20s and havent even taken my game outside the USA. I do have a "type" when it comes to girls - The girl I am most attracted to is the one I havent been with yet. Is this common among the PUA?

[WestCoast]

Hmm I guess I disagree here. I'd rather have $$$.

Not because the end game is for sex, but the end game with money is freedom. So I don't have to work and I can get fit all day and do a job more meaningful than trying to make rich people richer.

Girls are second though. Same ranking, health, cash, girls.

(07-31-2012 12:32 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Yep it's true. In the end that's what it's all about...

(07-31-2012 12:29 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

An old guy told me when I was a kid "Everything you do is for pussy" Those shoes you picked. Pussy. That car you fixed up. Pussy. Every single thing. It stuck with me.

[Nomad77]

Not sure, I've have some good LTR. And in general women have been very good to me but then again, I sort of have a different approach and objective when it comes to women...

(07-31-2012 12:27 PM)soup Wrote:  

Game to keep oneitis at bay.

I've got too much stuff going on right now to get into an LTR.

I've had them before, and it is a major power suck.

If I had to choose I would probably hang with a hot bitch for a while then slog through all the mediocre bitches I've been banging lately. Maybe it's the elitist side of me.

Women are tools. For me, the cat is out of the bag. I've learned too much about women to trust them at all with any kind of responsibility in my life.

[Nomad77]

Yep, this is exactly what I am talking about. Gets to the point where you don't even know what an 8 or 9 is. The thrill is in the chase for me. A lot of the girls I don't even fuck. I just want to get to the point where I know it's possible. Now, my biggest kick is picking up chicks for another guys!

You can't have a lot of anything and really appreciate it and women are no different.

I am thinking the same way as you and how to create some kind of balance.

(07-31-2012 12:33 PM)docinsc Wrote:  

I have the same dilemma. I used to look at players with disgust, although it was probably more out of envy. They were getting all the hot chicks while I drank my vodka, too shy to talk to a girl. I was looking for a wife, I had convinced myself. Fast forward 5 years, I have hit the gym, become successful, and dating like a madman to 8, 9 and 10s. I would like to convince myself I havent changed and still looking for a wife, but I lose interest in a girl before I even pull out (no exaggeration). Its just so easy anymore, I actually enjoy the chase and the expectation of the catch more than the catch. I'd like to think I havent 'met the right one yet" to take me out of the game but I am starting to doubt that as well. I fear the gravy train has to end soon, that I will be alone and old, but I am still getting the young 20s and havent even taken my game outside the USA. I do have a "type" when it comes to girls - The girl I am most attracted to is the one I havent been with yet. Is this common among the PUA?

[Nomad77]

Well, that's the problem. I cannot go the gym and just be at the gym working out. When I am at the gym or anywhere else I am still scanning looking for a pickup.

That would be a blessing to go somewhere and be able to do something without having this going on 24/7. I realize that a lot of guys would like to be in this position but I just feel I need to somehow regulate it a bit. And the reason I call it a drug is that the more you game the more you want to game. You get addicted to the high of picking up a new woman and to me it's a very real high and a very real addiction.

But thanks for your support!

(07-31-2012 12:27 PM)Kikz Wrote:  

I'm like this and to be honest I think it is partially ego based. I want to bed more girls, I want to meet more girls and I always want fresh women. I've fucked up my own relationships with women by running away from commitment out of fear of becoming lazy rather than fear of commitment. On a personal level I think it is because the chase motivates me to continuously improve myself. I know of countless people who are in relationships who have let themselves go, both intellectually and physically because they do not need to work for that pussy. They become comfortable in their comfort zones and they look at themselves in the mirror or notice themselves become fucking boring but they numb that truth with the affection they receive from that one person. All the people I know in relationships have become fatter, lazier, more passive, lost interests and have seen their passions/hobbies disappear, all to fill that little hole in their soul which their relationship band-aids up. Now, this is not to say that I am anti-relationship. I have found a few women who have met my standards and I would gladly get into a relationship with, however it would not be monogamous. I don't care if she fucks other guys as long for that would be hypocritical when I am out hitting on other women and bedding the ones I want to. Last year perhaps I would have not been cool with that, but I couldn't give a fuck anymore (letting go of the negative ego-based relation). I acknowledge the fact that if I had a LTR I would be limited in the lifestyle I lead. Less hobbies, less time for sports with friends, less time for working on side projects, all things which help me improve myself.

The game keeps you in check, keeps you real to your roots and as long as you know what you want and it is congruent with your beliefs and direction you wanna go with in life, I don't see it as bad in my life. Be careful though, you gotta find a balance.

A friend of mine recently came out of a relationship of 3.5 years in which the girl cheated on him with 2 guys, once in the first year and then at the end of the relationship. This guy now is lost, his self-esteem is low and he is trying to handle the situation and get by. Of course I am helping him, but the negative tendencies are still there; he still messages his ex-gf and is still beta when she contacts him, like a puppy wagging its tail once it receives its attention. I say this at the top of my lungs and I say it proudly... FUCK THAT. I would rather be addicted to the game that be addicted to one woman and give her all my power (See the ego talking, keeping me in check?).

I think that instead of terming this as an addiction and yourself as being an outlier in the social world, just let it be and accept it for what it is. You're a social person who enjoys sharing interactions, both physical and intellectual with beautiful women. The less attention you give it as a problem, the less problematic it will be.. So many guys kill to be in a position like yours, a position of power and choice. It's an issue if you make it to be one. I accept that I enjoy the game and I play it to my benefit, regarding jobs I have had with interacting with customers, making new friends, being a cool person and living towards my values. I have already accepted that game is something that benefits me towards taking my life in the direction I want it to go however, the day I wanna settle down or detach from it (if ever) I will not be ashamed to because it is not an addiction, it is just a power/skill that we have. Don't get let the excitement of the power overrule what you want to do, your desires. From what you wrote, you seemed concerned about it impacting your work. I would say sort out your priorities and see how they conflict with your desires. When I am at the gym, I am at the gym 100%. When I am working I am working 100%. Some days I will hit on women at the gym, other days I am completely focused.

Don't treat it as an addiction, treat it as a blessing. Ever since I started doing that, my relationship related worries etc. have disappeared. I wake up every morning with a smile on my face.

The day I wake up and that smile is absent is the day I will start worrying.

[Nomad77]

I agree that money does grant you freedom but for me my freedom is about getting women. All the money does is facilitates this.

As Onasis said: "All the money in the world would have no meaning without women."

(07-31-2012 12:34 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Hmm I guess I disagree here. I'd rather have $$$.

Not because the end game is for sex, but the end game with money is freedom. So I don't have to work and I can get fit all day and do a job more meaningful than trying to make rich people richer.

Girls are second though. Same ranking, health, cash, girls.

(07-31-2012 12:32 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Yep it's true. In the end that's what it's all about...

(07-31-2012 12:29 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

An old guy told me when I was a kid "Everything you do is for pussy" Those shoes you picked. Pussy. That car you fixed up. Pussy. Every single thing. It stuck with me.

[WestCoast]

Jeez that's pretty crazy I'd turn down a full on year of sex for more $$$ dependent on the amount of course. Money can change your life forever a 7/8/9/10 can't do squat once you have sex, except steal your shit and make your life miserable.

Run the numbers! If it costs you $100 per lay, then every $100 opportunity should be a night spent sleeping in!

The guys who preach minimalism are starting to have an impact on this thought process since the world could tank any time for all we know.

[Nomad77]

If you don't have money then yes it's important but once you get some then women become the objective.

(07-31-2012 01:11 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Jeez that's pretty crazy I'd turn down a full on year of sex for more $$$ dependent on the amount of course. Money can change your life forever a 7/8/9/10 can't do squat once you have sex, except steal your shit and make your life miserable.

[delicioustacos]

It becomes joyless and exhausting being in charge of the interaction all the time. Controlling and leading and etc. It would be nice, for once, to have a girl unexpectedly amuse and impress me. For her to control the frame. To flip the script. But you fear this, if you think in terms of game-- you fear that if you're not leading at all times you are dead to the pussy, now and forever.

Running the conversation becomes a learned habit like never "pecking in" and always holding your beer low by your crotch, the least natural place to keep a vessel brimming with liquid. This makes it difficult to have any surprises that could make you feel something.

I've written some posts on this subject if you guys have time to kill:

http://delicioustacos.com/2012/05/22/the...e-rafters/

http://delicioustacos.com/2012/07/07/the...the-omega/

http://delicioustacos.com/2012/04/11/int...en-dreams/

[Eddie Winslow]

(07-31-2012 12:27 PM)Kikz Wrote:  

On a personal level I think it is because the chase motivates me to continuously improve myself. I know of countless people who are in relationships who have let themselves go, both intellectually and physically because they do not need to work for that pussy. They become comfortable in their comfort zones and they look at themselves in the mirror or notice themselves become fucking boring but they numb that truth with the affection they receive from that one person. All the people I know in relationships have become fatter, lazier, more passive, lost interests and have seen their passions/hobbies disappear, all to fill that little hole in their soul which their relationship band-aids up.

I couldn't agree with this excerpt more.

I've been in the game for almost a year now (after getting my poor beta dick kicked in from a really terrible breakup). I got my confidence way up since then and enjoyed some great success. Recently, I finally met a girl who was everything I could ask for: beautiful, exotic, funny, nurturing, horny, but only slept with two dudes and was completely in love with me. She wanted me to be her boyfriend, and I gave in. For the month and a half we lasted, all I could think was: "Now what?"

Why try to learn a new language? I can't travel and try to bang foriegners without the guilt of cheating.

Why go out on the weekends? I generously piss away my money on drinks and food for her that I know won't get me any more or less laid.

Why try to meet new people? If you aren't flirting with them (at a minimum), meeting new girls isn't even fun. Brand new male friends are good for doing hobbies with, making money with, and chasing girls with. Won't need them, either. Guilt, guilt, guilt.

Why try to set aside time for my hobbies? The pleasure of doing what I like is neutralized by the guilt of ignoring her/her mild nagging.

Why aggressively pursue new business ventures? It's going to take more of my time, and I won't be able to enjoy the benefits of having the extra income: toys, travel, girls, etc.

Why fucking do ANYTHING?

Gaming forces you to go out and get what you desire, whether it's girls, money, experiences, or skills. That makes me truly happy - at least, for now.

Does this thought pattern = gaming addiction? Selfishness? Anti-relationship? Thinking too far into the future? Or just normal, and I'm not ready to share my life with someone (..yet?)? I'm compassionate towards others and I love connecting with girls, but not enough to stop living life.

For those of you who beat your addiction to game, how and why did you?

[Giovonny]

(07-31-2012 01:14 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

If you don't have money then yes it's important but once you get some then women become the objective.

(07-31-2012 01:11 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Jeez that's pretty crazy I'd turn down a full on year of sex for more $$$ dependent on the amount of course. Money can change your life forever a 7/8/9/10 can't do squat once you have sex, except steal your shit and make your life miserable.

If you two guys spoke in person for about 2 minutes, I bet you would find that you agree with each other on most things.

[soup]

(07-31-2012 12:34 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Not sure, I've have some good LTR. And in general women have been very good to me but then again, I sort of have a different approach and objective when it comes to women...

(07-31-2012 12:27 PM)soup Wrote:  

Game to keep oneitis at bay.

I've got too much stuff going on right now to get into an LTR.

I've had them before, and it is a major power suck.

If I had to choose I would probably hang with a hot bitch for a while then slog through all the mediocre bitches I've been banging lately. Maybe it's the elitist side of me.

Women are tools. For me, the cat is out of the bag. I've learned too much about women to trust them at all with any kind of responsibility in my life.

Different from what?

[Nomad77]

I seek and maintain very long-term relationships with women. It starts out as sexually but then evolve into something like good friends...

(07-31-2012 02:17 PM)soup Wrote:  

(07-31-2012 12:34 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Not sure, I've have some good LTR. And in general women have been very good to me but then again, I sort of have a different approach and objective when it comes to women...

(07-31-2012 12:27 PM)soup Wrote:  

Game to keep oneitis at bay.

I've got too much stuff going on right now to get into an LTR.

I've had them before, and it is a major power suck.

If I had to choose I would probably hang with a hot bitch for a while then slog through all the mediocre bitches I've been banging lately. Maybe it's the elitist side of me.

Women are tools. For me, the cat is out of the bag. I've learned too much about women to trust them at all with any kind of responsibility in my life.

Different from what?