[bigbait]

Hi guys,

I often do date game where I go for a few dates with a girl before I seal the deal. A lot of people probably think this is a waste of time, and they may be right, but for a variety of reasons I like to do this.

So this is the problem: Lately I've been getting rejected by girls after 1 or 2 dates, typically with a bunch of "Oh you're such a great guy, I have so much fun with you but..." comments. I know that they do have a ton of fun with me, and I get IOUs throughout (kissing, them touching me, them laughing, them playing with their hair), so I don't get it.

The other theme seems to be that I've been dating hotter girls lately.

It used to be very typical that if girl went out with me at all then it would be a solid.

I've thought about asking these girls about why they weren't interested. Now, I am not naive enough to think that there aren't a ton of pitfalls with doing so. But I am curious if anyone has ever done this effectively.

Thank you for your advice on this.

[HiFlo]

In my experience it's terrible to ask girls for feedback on YOUR actions/behavior.

On the other hand, it's great conversation fodder to ask girls about the actions/behaviors of OTHER guys.

As a failsafe at the end of your dates with hotter girls, this parry may be a sort of shit-test/LMR and they want to see what you're do. I would recommend going caveman but verbally and physically. Tell her you love the way she smells and want to 'know' her better. At the same time get very aggressive physically. You have nothing to lose at this point.

I would maintain contact with the other hot girls who told you this as use them as 'pivots' in PUA lingo, keeping them as friends and allowing them to introduce you to other hotties.

[BetaSteve]

I am currently in an LTR with a girl that might fit in that category.

Whenever she is single, she gets TONS of attention. She told me at one point, she was "dating" five men and going on dates with even more week by week. Eventually, she choose one to be in a relationship with (I came later).

Unless you are exclusive with a girl, remember you are still in competition with other men. The game is still on. This took me a while to realize. In fact, we "dated" for about 2-3 months before we were exclusive.

[Kitsune]

(07-01-2012 03:29 PM)bigbait Wrote:  

Hi guys,

I often do date game where I go for a few dates with a girl before I seal the deal. A lot of people probably think this is a waste of time, and they may be right, but for a variety of reasons I like to do this.

So this is the problem: Lately I've been getting rejected by girls after 1 or 2 dates, typically with a bunch of "Oh you're such a great guy, I have so much fun with you but..." comments. I know that they do have a ton of fun with me, and I get IOUs throughout (kissing, them touching me, them laughing, them playing with their hair), so I don't get it.

The other theme seems to be that I've been dating hotter girls lately.

It used to be very typical that if girl went out with me at all then it would be a solid.

I've thought about asking these girls about why they weren't interested. Now, I am not naive enough to think that there aren't a ton of pitfalls with doing so. But I am curious if anyone has ever done this effectively.

Thank you for your advice on this.

Don't ask the girls for feedback, they don't really know.

What are the 'buts' they give you, specifically? You can work out what it is from that.

[BetaSteve]

Ya I agree. They don't know and even if they do know, they aren't going to be that honest with you.

[bigbait]

(07-01-2012 03:47 PM)Kitsune Wrote:  

What are the 'buts' they give you, specifically? You can work out what it is from that.

These are the buts:
* "want more than just to have a lot of fun" - which I interpret as meaning that I wasn't able to make a strong enough emotional connection
* "just got into a serious relationship" - which seems silly to take at face value given what we had just been doing with each other
* "just not a match right now"

[thegmanifesto]

(07-01-2012 03:29 PM)bigbait Wrote:  

Hi guys,

I often do date game where I go for a few dates with a girl before I seal the deal.

What kind of dates are you going on?

Break it down from start to finish and I can diagnose your problem.

[bigbait]

(07-01-2012 03:36 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  

As a failsafe at the end of your dates with hotter girls, this parry may be a sort of shit-test/LMR and they want to see what you're do. I would recommend going caveman but verbally and physically. Tell her you love the way she smells and want to 'know' her better. At the same time get very aggressive physically. You have nothing to lose at this point.

I would maintain contact with the other hot girls who told you this as use them as 'pivots' in PUA lingo, keeping them as friends and allowing them to introduce you to other hotties.

This has only happened to me post date where I did not push for a bang on the first date.

I haven't ever been able to keep a girl as a pivot. Seem like she is either down, or doesn't want anything to do with me. Any good threads on that?

[bigbait]

(07-01-2012 04:06 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

What kind of dates are you going on?

Break it down from start to finish and I can diagnose your problem.

Date 1: Hip wine or beer bar, 2 drinks.
Date 2: Tapas/Small plates, 4 drinks.
Date 3: Dinner at my place, bottle of wine, bang.

I skip venues when I can but I keep try to my dates short - less than 3 hours.

[thegmanifesto]

(07-01-2012 04:13 PM)bigbait Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 04:06 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

What kind of dates are you going on?

Break it down from start to finish and I can diagnose your problem.

Date 1: Hip wine or beer bar, 2 drinks.
Date 2: Tapas/Small plates, 4 drinks.
Date 3: Dinner at my place, bottle of wine, bang.

I skip venues when I can but I keep try to my dates short - less than 3 hours.

Jesus.

No wonder. These are terrible. This is what platonic friends do with each other.

I knew we would figure this out (although I wanted you to break down how the date goes, start to finish ie are you picking her up? Meeting at the bar? etc)

You need to drink more.

You need to hit more venues in the same night.

Are you locking these places down?

Suited down?

Custom?

Smoking?

This is more what you need to do:

Three Point First Date Swoop Move http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2011/05/thr...-move.html

[bigbait]

(07-01-2012 06:07 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 04:13 PM)bigbait Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 04:06 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

What kind of dates are you going on?

Break it down from start to finish and I can diagnose your problem.

Date 1: Hip wine or beer bar, 2 drinks.
Date 2: Tapas/Small plates, 4 drinks.
Date 3: Dinner at my place, bottle of wine, bang.

I skip venues when I can but I keep try to my dates short - less than 3 hours.

Jesus.

No wonder. These are terrible. This is what platonic friends do with each other.

I knew we would figure this out (although I wanted you to break down how the date goes, start to finish ie are you picking her up? Meeting at the bar? etc)

You need to drink more.

You need to hit more venues in the same night.

Are you locking these places down?

Suited down?

Custom?

Smoking?

This is more what you need to do:

Three Point First Date Swoop Move http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2011/05/thr...-move.html

I don't lock it down like some do. I get there a few minutes early. Joke with the hostess. Waitresses chat to me during the night, asking me about what I'm reading, drinks whatever. Randoms ask me questions.

My personal experience is suits can at times come across as try hard. When I wear a tight t-shirt girls almost always get touchy-feely. Anything long sleeve and that never happens.

You're right about alcohol. It is the world's only true aphrodisiac. The problem is me. When I'm drinking a few bourbons or scotches every night it's no problem to throw back a few more. But right now I'm not in spot to do that.

Smoking. Won't do it.

[thegmanifesto]

(07-01-2012 06:24 PM)bigbait Wrote:  

I don't lock it down like some do. I get there a few minutes early. Joke with the hostess. Waitresses chat to me during the night, asking me about what I'm reading, drinks whatever. Randoms ask me questions.

My personal experience is suits can at times come across as try hard. When I wear a tight t-shirt girls almost always get touchy-feely. Anything long sleeve and that never happens.

You're right about alcohol. It is the world's only true aphrodisiac. The problem is me. When I'm drinking a few bourbons or scotches every night it's no problem to throw back a few more. But right now I'm not in spot to do that.

Smoking. Won't do it.

What state/city do you live in?

It is funny that we live in a day and age where a Suit is "try hard".

And dressing like a homosexual from the 90's (tight t-shirt) is accepted.

Oh well. I guess that's "progress" for you.

I think you need to move around move venues.

Smoke.

More alcohol.

You will see your swoop numbers increase.

And remember, close hard.

[johnwu]

(07-01-2012 06:36 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 06:24 PM)bigbait Wrote:  

I don't lock it down like some do. I get there a few minutes early. Joke with the hostess. Waitresses chat to me during the night, asking me about what I'm reading, drinks whatever. Randoms ask me questions.

My personal experience is suits can at times come across as try hard. When I wear a tight t-shirt girls almost always get touchy-feely. Anything long sleeve and that never happens.

You're right about alcohol. It is the world's only true aphrodisiac. The problem is me. When I'm drinking a few bourbons or scotches every night it's no problem to throw back a few more. But right now I'm not in spot to do that.

Smoking. Won't do it.

It is funny that we live in a day and age where a Suit is "try hard".

G has a good point, its only "try hard" if you don't have the swag to wear one

[bigbait]

(07-01-2012 07:21 PM)johnwu Wrote:  

G has a good point, its only "try hard" if you don't have the swag to wear one

It's complicated.

[Samseau]

If you wear a cheap suit, it's try hard. If you live in a dormroom and wear a suit, it's try hard. Context.



As for bigbait:

I'd say your problem is waiting to close the deal. The longer you wait the more difficult it becomes. Fuck her on the first date, search for Tuthmosis's first date bang thread for a great start to this end.

[bigbait]

People kind of expect me to wear a suit. Not wearing one seems to help.

That thread is solid gold.
It makes perfect sense in retrospect.

[Palo_alto]

Never ask girls for feedback. They have no idea what they are looking for. Waste of time.

Don't become the entertainer, smirk but don't laugh. Make her comfortable but arouse her. Bounce from bar to another bar and then cut it short, you don't bullshit, you are the coolest cat in the bar and she is giving you the opportunity to show her that, DO NOT WASTE ANYTIME.

I stopped having dates because I am a funny dude, girls love funny guys like me, but not to fuck. I only use those dates for pivots now.

[Kona]

(07-01-2012 03:29 PM)bigbait Wrote:  

I've thought about asking these girls about why they weren't interested.

Are you gonna take them out to dinner again to ask them this, or are you just gonna call them?

Aloha!

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Asking girls for advice is totally pointless because they don't know what they want and chances of actually tipping you off onto something highly secretive like "bad breath" are minimal. Would such a tiny benefit be worth the cringe-inducing grovel before her?

[Greek kamaki]

Girls give you right advise only if you have already fucked them.In other case they do not have any motivation to do so.

[XXL]

to me you waste time dating girls you should not. screening? i learned it the hard way when i was dating the wrong girls. so now i screen screen screen to see who she is, what she responds to, what type of a girl she is etc to know if we get along.

more specifically when we talk i say what is my taste, what i like in a girl, what i am like, i throw a lot of things like 'can you handle me girl?', i tease a lot, i throw comments about this and that to see how she reacts etc i just want to see if she's cool TO ME and if i sense we're from different worlds at the time it's not what i want. but that's me.

(07-01-2012 04:03 PM)bigbait Wrote:  

* "want more than just to have a lot of fun"
* "just got into a serious relationship"
* "just not a match right now"

i'd know this ^^ before making some any kind of big move like a date with her

(07-01-2012 04:13 PM)bigbait Wrote:  

Date 1: Hip wine or beer bar, 2 drinks.
Date 2: Tapas/Small plates, 4 drinks.
Date 3: Dinner at my place, bottle of wine, bang.

your dates are fine. it's absurd to think that it's not enough. as long as she's having fun with you, the specific location is irrelevant, likewise the suit.. please don't be the motherfucker with a tie on a date (unless it's some kind of stuck up dinner). you can't fake this. if you're broke student wearing a suit on a date it will kill you. just be who you are, she will find out anyway.

it's not like the girl who having super fun time with you totally in a trance of good emotions suddenly wakes up and says 'oh.. no no no.. where is your suit sir.. where is my fucking bottle service.. i can't take it like this..".

[Divorco]

(07-01-2012 03:29 PM)bigbait Wrote:  

I've thought about asking these girls about why they weren't interested.

I have done this successfully. When I was rusty in dating, some women stopped responding after one or two dates. I sensed they were uncomfortable and would not respond if they felt pressured at all. But I wanted to confirm my suspicions about where I went wrong. So I sent texts (or e-mails) like:

"Quick feedback please: Something go wrong at dinner? Or just no chemistry? No worries."

"I guess our physical intimacy escalated too fast for your emotional comfort?"

or if she had been a bit evasive:

"So how single are you lately?"

A couple cases admitted they were seeing someone. Other cases confirmed my suspicions about why she rejected (talking about my ex on date), but later texted me and restarted. And one rare case had awful flirting skills, apologized, and restarted.

Understand, these are "Hail Mary" texts when a woman has basically stopped responding for a week or more. The goal is to elicit information and clarify the rejection. They must be non-needy, non-threatening, asking only for feedback before moving on. They clear the air and get her off the defensive. In rare cases this will actually remove the awkwardness and recover. But the goal must be purely feedback, no pressure.

[pitt]

Asking girls for advise is the worse thing you could do, listen to them regarding dating is even worse.

I remember when i was younger, my sister used to tell me that girls would forget me easily because i never took girls out, i would just bring them to my room and that was it. She used to tell me that girls wanted a guy that take them out to eat, to cinema and become their good friends. Few years after, i remember i wasnt getting that much pussy so i decided to listen to what my sister was saying, i thought to myself that this time i was getting that much pussy because i wasnt being a nice guy. I started inviting girls out and act like i wasnt interested in sex, guess what my results were? They gotten so worse..so worse that i thought something was wrong with me..this playboy here was becoming a beta..after this, i started hanging out again with my old friends and the number of pussy went up again..so if there was a lesson in it..dont listen to girls because they dont know what they want or will just give you wrong advise.

[haywire]

Yup, agree with what guys have said here - never ask a woman for feedback. For the simple reason that they're incapable of doing that, being the emotional creatures that they are. Their hamster/chick logic is too strong for any objective rational analysis to prevail.

Lately, purely for academic purposes I've been deliberately asking a few 'experimental chicks'(the one I don't give two shits about losing) for feedback after intentionally making questionable moves(sending "it was nice meeting you, had so much fun " texts, running 'text game', calling the next day after date1 to setup date2, waiting too long to make a move etc etc), just to see the reaction now that I know the complete picture. In all the cases where I get rejected, they all say the same "It was a pleasure meeting you, you're a great guy. I had fun laughing with you. But I didn't find that chemistry" or a variation of that.

[Kitsune]

(07-02-2012 06:25 AM)Divorco Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 03:29 PM)bigbait Wrote:  

I've thought about asking these girls about why they weren't interested.

I have done this successfully. When I was rusty in dating, some women stopped responding after one or two dates. I sensed they were uncomfortable and would not respond if they felt pressured at all. But I wanted to confirm my suspicions about where I went wrong. So I sent texts (or e-mails) like:

"Quick feedback please: Something go wrong at dinner? Or just no chemistry? No worries."

"I guess our physical intimacy escalated too fast for your emotional comfort?"

or if she had been a bit evasive:

"So how single are you lately?"

A couple cases admitted they were seeing someone. Other cases confirmed my suspicions about why she rejected (talking about my ex on date), but later texted me and restarted. And one rare case had awful flirting skills, apologized, and restarted.

Understand, these are "Hail Mary" texts when a woman has basically stopped responding for a week or more. The goal is to elicit information and clarify the rejection. They must be non-needy, non-threatening, asking only for feedback before moving on. They clear the air and get her off the defensive. In rare cases this will actually remove the awkwardness and recover. But the goal must be purely feedback, no pressure.

Those aren't real reasons - most of us have heard them before at some point. That is why we're all saying 'Don't ask a girl for feedback.'


If you pressure a girl for feedback she'll give you whatever she thinks will get you off her back quick enough. They'll make up boyfriends or 'a lack of chemistry' or say they're too busy with other work.

They won't give you a real answer because they don't even know what a 'real answer' would be. All they can remember is feelings, not your behaviour.