[freshcream]

Where would you place teachers in those categories?

[WestCoast]

(06-30-2012 01:57 PM)freshcream Wrote:  

Where would you place teachers in those categories?

IMHO teachers are in doin what they love category. They are a bit of overlap with workin with hands (if of course we are talking about kids). I agree somewhat with his idea, but there is also a lot of BS out there ex. All lawyers and wall street guys hate their jobs. That's just crazy. To me my job is both category 1 and 3. I love investing and I am willing to do a lot to get more $$ right now.

Anyway Zeus is definitely not a troll. To give you a few highlights of how bad the street gets:

1. I have worked out of a hospital bed
2. Banker twitch (left eye looks left, right eye looks right can no longer see so you sleep in the bathroom for 30mins)
3. Work on a red eye flight with no break(all nighter)
4. Have worked on thanksgiving.

The street is similar to the military, just not as physically demanding. Luckily I've gone through the "shit" years now so the above 4 would unlikely happen again.

[rhodey]

(06-28-2012 08:23 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

You can save up 33% of your pay or around $30K post tax if you dont get trapped in the lifestyle.

Key point here, and that's probably a lot tougher than it sounds.... I applaud the O.P.. All the BS titles and high salaries mean nothing if you are miserable. It's the QUALITY of life that matters most IMO.

[Neo]

(06-29-2012 05:03 PM)Menace Wrote:  

What's the churn rate at these positions? Given an incoming class of traders, how many still around at year 1, year 2?

I've always thought that this is what I should have done (i.e. get in, make millions, quit), but it seems like that it's not that easy.

I'm interested in the answer to this question as well. I've always wanted to be a mechanic/electrician or do some type of blue collar work. Instead, I went to college and went into the sciences. The good news is I'm employed now making ok cash, problem is constant layoffs force me to take temp jobs and I have no desire to get a higher degree. The PHDs I know though have also been at like multiple companies in the past 5 years.

Is it possible to start out at almost 30 and do well? Most guys I know in the trades started after high school.

[Deb Auchery]

(06-30-2012 03:25 PM)Neo Wrote:  

(06-29-2012 05:03 PM)Menace Wrote:  

What's the churn rate at these positions? Given an incoming class of traders, how many still around at year 1, year 2?

I've always thought that this is what I should have done (i.e. get in, make millions, quit), but it seems like that it's not that easy.

I'm interested in the answer to this question as well. I've always wanted to be a mechanic/electrician or do some type of blue collar work. Instead, I went to college and went into the sciences. The good news is I'm employed now making ok cash, problem is constant layoffs force me to take temp jobs and I have no desire to get a higher degree. The PHDs I know though have also been at like multiple companies in the past 5 years.

Is it possible to start out at almost 30 and do well? Most guys I know in the trades started after high school.

Of course you can, there's nothing to stop you starting at 30 or 50 or whatever. At 30 you have a decent amount of work experience that will be useful, working with people etc.

[WestCoast]

(06-30-2012 03:25 PM)Neo Wrote:  

(06-29-2012 05:03 PM)Menace Wrote:  

What's the churn rate at these positions? Given an incoming class of traders, how many still around at year 1, year 2?

I've always thought that this is what I should have done (i.e. get in, make millions, quit), but it seems like that it's not that easy.

I'm interested in the answer to this question as well. I've always wanted to be a mechanic/electrician or do some type of blue collar work. Instead, I went to college and went into the sciences. The good news is I'm employed now making ok cash, problem is constant layoffs force me to take temp jobs and I have no desire to get a higher degree. The PHDs I know though have also been at like multiple companies in the past 5 years.

Is it possible to start out at almost 30 and do well? Most guys I know in the trades started after high school.

This is always true to an extent, basically you have to balance money and free time. As you get more cash you care less about burning the midnight oil. I'd say for the majority of dudes, their jobs are not worth it and Rey should travel and live it up, $5K savings a year is not worth it at all. $30-40k+ is a whole different ball game. But even at the mid 5 figures, after about 5-7 years... Adding $30K to 200+ net worth is not worth it at all which is why OP is leaving.

In terms of churn. 80% don't survive more than 3 years.

For trades? Why not go into health care as an x-ray tech? Anything health care is much more stable and u can clear 70-80+ and live a comfortable life style IMHO.

[Zeus]

When I first started out of University as an assistant in watched the rookie class of retail brokers closely. Within 3 yrs, 90% were gone and 5yrs all were gone. It's a tough gig.

The pay :

$40k the first yr with a minimum asset accumulation of $5mil.

Yr 2 if you survive half your pay, so only $20k for the first 6 months. After that, you better have some commission coming in or you are broke and with out job.

It's really rigged. They hire 20 guys knowing full well that they are going to fail. Let them accumulate as many clients and assets, fire them and give those clients to the big producers.

In terms of trading, the only way you are going to be in the desks now is with an mba from a high ranking school. Then you go on the rotational program to fit you where they think you are best.

West Coast had a good post on the costs of an mba. Not worth it imho.

To top it off, it's still who you know. Other than prop traders, most desk traders are not traders per se. They're sales people with a sole responsibility of making commission and keep the client trading regardless of losses. 99% are idiots and gave no idea what they're doing. But, they are good talkers and sales people.

Further, all trading is now high frequency trading which is run by physics and math PhDs running algorithmic programs.

Put your money in the markets and you're going to lose it.

Invest in your self and a business you can sell or rent as an annuity. Ie, hire people to do your work while you don't work and collect the cheques. The only way I see this is through a skilled trade.

And also West coast is right again about the age. It's a 20 yr olds game. You have less fear, less to lose and a higher tolerance for risk.

There was a controversy during a recent summer Olympics where the Chinese lied that their gymnasts were 16, the minimum age but were actually 14. They wanted younger because they take more risks on a bar. Higher risk, higher potential reward.

Same with trading.

My advice for anyone is to stay away from it unless you have someone you truly trust letting you ride their coat tails.

[WestCoast]

All of Zeus's comments are accurate. I would caveat all this with the following though, if you can get a job on the Street and understand what you are signing up for, do it.

Steps to success below:
1. Live with a shit ton of people first 2-3 years, pay less than $700 in monthly rent for a room. Work so hard you want to die every month. You'll likely net $30-50K in savings no problem (post tax)
2. After you survive find a mentor. This will act as a block against future firings you'll be making good coin 6 figures plus and you can start saving 30-40K a year no problem and move into a place by yourself. Hours are now tolerable.
3. Continue working hard but tail out and request to "travel more" you're hinting at networking and here is where you start making a name for yourself so people start calling you direct. Now your "mentor" kind of relies on you, so you're going to get paid more and work less.
4. Try to make the jump at 29-31 age range. If you fail, have balls of steel and straight up quit or find a way to get a promotion at a different firm. The hours of 60+ a week are no longer tolerable and you'll want to lower this or simply move on.
5. Don't eat the same shit traders eat force yourself to eat healthy and work out 5 days a week.

Thats pretty much the way you do it. I worry some times when people say "oh just spend spend"... if you've been poor before you know that it is disasterous if there is a health problem/real issue that arises. You can only "spend spend" because you're in great health.

Here are some pitfalls as well:
1. First 2-3 years most guys get locked in with a live-in girl friend
2. Guys give up after 2-3 years when they are being moved up because they don't find a good mentor. (someone well respected and not a complete dick 90% are dicks). "say fuck it all" only to come back into the game after 6 months off ruining all momentum.
3. Live in a 1 bedroom or studio from the get go, saving $0 in the first 2-3 years forcing them to continue "living up" with bottles etc. This causes your group of friends to be people who only value $$
4. Continue working 60+ hours a week after age ~30-31. These guys hit 35 look like they are 45 and have nothing to show but an extra maybe $80K relative to their 250 saved. On a percentage basis that is no longer worth it, typically come down with needing liposuction or some sort of long-term health issue.
5. Expenses. No matter what co-workers say never trade up your lifestyle, its a scam. Living alone in a big city is already huge status, getting 1 suit that is custom fit and one brand that fits you "good enough" is all you need.

Anyway thats my 2c for cats who want a "golden parachute" when they are 30. I beleive 200+ is more than enough to not "worry" about cash anymore. Most get stuck into some stupid pipe dream about making $10M and living in Thailand, that shit would get boring so fast. You need to save enough to never worry about it and have enough time to live to never think you missed out.

[MikeCF]

Some serious knowledge being dropped in this thread.

[the chef]

(06-30-2012 12:29 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

(06-28-2012 12:35 PM)Zeus Wrote:  

Gentleman,

My life is about to take a turn. Back in December I lost my job at a bank after a contract of a manager took over for the former male manager. He was banging one of my colleagues and got pinched. As soon as she came in, I saw the target.

For a full year I was trying to find another job. I did find one. Making $300-$500k yr as a trader. I turned it down. Th not got canned.

Best thing to be very happen to me.

Back in high school I was adamant I wanted to be an auto mechanic. Then a brief conversation with a friends father scared me to going to university.

I became obsessed with making money, getting miserable while doing it. Getting canned was the best. I was happiest.

I was looking back at emails and stumbled on one I sent to a mentor. A true alpha. A cop. Greatest guy. I sked his advice about going into a trade. That was 2009!

Every once in a while Roosh tweets about the value of learning a craft. Working with your hands. It hit me hard. I want to do a skilled trade like I was planning almost 20yrs ago.

So here I am. I just gave notice to my apartment. Going to travel for 2 months and then head to a part of the country that desperately needs apprentices and such.

There's no time for waiting.

That's all.

Workplace psychology has always interested me.

I believe there are 3 primary types of workers.

Mercenaries, Craftsmen, and Artists.

Mercenaries chase money no matter what the cost. If they have to swim in human feces 60 hours a week so they can get that quarter mil a year, so be it, with the idea that it's worth the lifestyle upgrade in their offtime. They want the car, the girl, the travel, the diversified portfolio, and the early retirement.

Craftsmen are only happy doing what they love. Mechanics, chefs, carpenters. If they're not using their hands, they're miserable, and will trade down financially in order to do work that makes them happy. Obviously we know the OP is in this category. They'll work to an old age happily, having earned a lifetime of satisfaction doing what they love. Check out a documentary called "Jiro Dreams of Sushi" to see the ultimate example of this. 3-michelin starred japanese chef in his 90s who's worked every day in his life.

Artists are your actors, painters, musicians. They statistically don't make shit doing their "art" so they take side jobs to pay the bills like waiting tables or telemarketing. Less than 1 percent of 1 percent can actually live off their art, but their dream is worth it and they just have to "get it out". They're not fulfilled unless a large part of their life is spent expressing themselves.

Each category typically laughs at the others and can't imagine how they can do what they do.

I find myself in the second category. I love work. I love what I do. There's a part of me that is fulfilled by it in a way that no woman, vacation, or car can ever come close to.

which category would you put doctors in?

[Veloce]

It all depends on their personality. I know a couple doctors, one in the mercenary category and one in the craftsman category. The mercenary just dumped his golddigging wife for a newer model and the craftsman is a really down to earth anesthesiologist that genuinely enjoys helping people. I don't think you can label each personality by what they do, per se. To me it's more about who they are inside and how they relate to their profession.

[RichieP]

This is the book that was mentioned. Saw it in the bookshop, looks pretty damn interesting.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Case-Working-You...0141047291

I think you could argue that there's also cases for working outside, very social jobs, working with people and contributing, etc. Any kind of work thats more naturally in line with what we've evolved for. Not always so easy to reconcile with earning a good living in mdoern society. I also think it's really hard to have "natural" work like that and be location-independent. If you want that, you almost have to do something from your laptop, unless you're taking jobs in different countries as you move.

[Forza]

(06-30-2012 01:57 PM)freshcream Wrote:  

Where would you place teachers in those categories?

Im an ESL teacher and I love it. Three to four hours a day, fun work for a decent salary, you get enough to save up for some travelling every year and you get to see a new country for every new contract. Wouldnt want to be doing it when I hit 35 though.

Id add one more category I think but cant think of a good word for it. Guys that dont really want to work at all.