[Andreas]

A lot of bloggers say that no matter what your situation you should be confident.
That should apply not only for women but also other aspects of life.

However I'm still trying to be confident using my logic. I'm supposed to not listen to my logic saying that i'm objectively bad. My mind just can't embrace this concept. No matter how much i choose to ignore any bad things about myself, logic sneaks in and prevents me from being confident. or so i think because it may not be that reason, but that's all it comes to my head now.

First of all, is confidence a state of being or feeling?

Why do I defy logic when i need it most or use logic when i don't need to?

If I think confidence rationally will it still be not as high as thinking it irrationally?

[_DC_]

(06-13-2012 02:37 PM)Andreas Wrote:  

A lot of bloggers say that no matter what your situation you should be confident.
That should apply not only for women but also other aspects of life.

However I'm still trying to be confident using my logic. I'm supposed to not listen to my logic saying that i'm objectively bad. My mind just can't embrace this concept. No matter how much i choose to ignore any bad things about myself, logic sneaks in and prevents me from being confident. or so i think because it may not be that reason, but that's all it comes to my head now.

First of all, is confidence a state of being or feeling?

Why do I defy logic when i need it most or use logic when i don't need to?

If I think confidence rationally will it still be not as high as thinking it irrationally?

I personally think "acting confident" or "faking it til you make it" is a crock of bullshit. It will probably help a bit, but people can see right through that kinda stuff.

Confidence is a reflection of truly believing in yourself and your abilities. Go do fun activities, improve your body through the gym and athletics, kick ass at your career, pick up hobbies that are worthwhile, read interesting books, etc. etc. etc.

[muc]

I think Mystery said "confidence comes from competence".

The idea is that you cannot fake competence or make it appear by wishing for it. (Although I suppose some types of hypnosis or positive affirmations or drugs could create that feeling for a certain amount of time.)

So if it's confidence in approaching strange women that you want, the only way would be to actually do it. For starters, you can just ask for directions and leave, or tell her a nice compliment and leave, etc. And in this fashion slowly, step by step, increase your confidence.

I like the part in the book "way of the superior man" where the author says that every man has an "edge" or limit of his confidence, where the fear sets in. And that as a man one should everyday step just slightly over that limit, acknowledging the fear, to push it further back. (I like to also reframe that fear as excitement.)

Other things that affect your confidence include how you live your life. Are you happy (or skilled at) your job, are you knowledgable in certain things, do you go to the gym (gym makes you feel more confident, maybe because it improves your posture and puts some good hormones in your blood) and so forth.

I think with practice you will come to the point where you are 100% certain that you will be fine, regardless of what happens in a social situation. Even if you push the envelope and say some outrageous things for example. And you will have no problem meeting new people.

And I think that's when the "irrational self-confidence" occurs. At least as observed by others, because they never expanded their comfort zones. In reality it's perfectly rational.

Think about skydiving. To outsiders a skydiver might seem to have irrationally big balls. But he knows that he will be fine. Because the odds of an accident are very very small. Because he checked his gear. Because he did similar jumps dozens or hundred times before.

[haywire]

I think what that concept really means is that you should have confidence in your self that through your intelligence, hardwork and perseverance you can achieve whatever you are trying to. Ofcourse, there are going to be many failures and lessons along they way, but ultimately you have to believe that eventually you will succeed.

It is obvious that if I'm trying to learn, say, swimming, it is foolish to "fake" confidence that I will be a world-class swimmer overnight. But rather, one should be confident and determined that, I know that through my hardwork and dedication, nothing can stop me from becoming the world's best.

[thegmanifesto]

(06-13-2012 02:59 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

I personally think "acting confident" or "faking it til you make it" is a crock of bullshit.

Someone who has never been in any type of sales environment.

Am I right or am I right?

[_DC_]

(06-13-2012 04:29 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(06-13-2012 02:59 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

I personally think "acting confident" or "faking it til you make it" is a crock of bullshit.

Someone who has never been in any type of sales environment.

Am I right or am I right?

I fail to see to the link between personal confidence and sales ability. Faking confidence in a product may be a whole different thing all together.

These punch bowls are a steal of a deal! Volcano insurance is a necessity! Etc etc.

[thegmanifesto]

(06-13-2012 04:53 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

(06-13-2012 04:29 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(06-13-2012 02:59 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

I personally think "acting confident" or "faking it til you make it" is a crock of bullshit.

Someone who has never been in any type of sales environment.

Am I right or am I right?

I fail to see to the link between personal confidence and sales ability. Faking confidence in a product may be a whole different thing all together.

These punch bowls are a steal of a deal! Volcano insurance is a necessity! Etc etc.

I thought so.

[Neo]

(06-13-2012 04:53 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

I fail to see to the link between personal confidence and sales ability. Faking confidence in a product may be a whole different thing all together.

These punch bowls are a steal of a deal! Volcano insurance is a necessity! Etc etc.

In my experience there is a huge link. Some of the best salesmen I've known were super confident and excellent hustlers, this was in the financial arena. I've seen guys go in nearly completely cold and sell to people they've never met. I did it myself a few times, but I couldn't even come close to some guys skill. Almost impossible to do without tons of balls.

To the OP, just keep at it. My take is that you should be confident, but also realistic about the outcome. Like let's say I'm having a grappling session with a 5th degree black belt in BJJ. Realistically, my chance of tapping the guy is slim to none. With that said I'm still confident in my ability to do so should the opportunity arise.

Sometimes being too logical can cripple you.

[Andreas]

(06-13-2012 03:12 PM)muc Wrote:  

I think Mystery said "confidence comes from competence".

The idea is that you cannot fake competence or make it appear by wishing for it. (Although I suppose some types of hypnosis or positive affirmations or drugs could create that feeling for a certain amount of time.)

So if it's confidence in approaching strange women that you want, the only way would be to actually do it. For starters, you can just ask for directions and leave, or tell her a nice compliment and leave, etc. And in this fashion slowly, step by step, increase your confidence.

I like the part in the book "way of the superior man" where the author says that every man has an "edge" or limit of his confidence, where the fear sets in. And that as a man one should everyday step just slightly over that limit, acknowledging the fear, to push it further back. (I like to also reframe that fear as excitement.)

Other things that affect your confidence include how you live your life. Are you happy (or skilled at) your job, are you knowledgable in certain things, do you go to the gym (gym makes you feel more confident, maybe because it improves your posture and puts some good hormones in your blood) and so forth.

I think with practice you will come to the point where you are 100% certain that you will be fine, regardless of what happens in a social situation. Even if you push the envelope and say some outrageous things for example. And you will have no problem meeting new people.

And I think that's when the "irrational self-confidence" occurs. At least as observed by others, because they never expanded their comfort zones. In reality it's perfectly rational.

Think about skydiving. To outsiders a skydiver might seem to have irrationally big balls. But he knows that he will be fine. Because the odds of an accident are very very small. Because he checked his gear. Because he did similar jumps dozens or hundred times before.

Now i get it. If you only see the end goal and expect to do something similar by trying to turn on a magical 'switch' you lose. But if you create the steps to getting there as small successes then you bring yourself to the point where you feel confident about doing the seemingly "big" tasks.

I'm not sure about the gym and confidence though. I've seen guys who are in much better shape than me but they are more miserable or settle for something mediocre. I think it depends on what is your purpose of going to the gym.

[MikeCF]

Confidence is an emotional state. It's a feeling. Logic has little to do with it.

Did you know that if you simply sit up straight and walk with a good posture then you'll feel more confident?

That is true. (Google the science.) That's also not logical.

Did you know that if you move your lips into a smile position, then you'll start to feel happy?

That is true. (Google the science.) That's also not logical.

Did you know that if you tell yourself you're a loser who is unworthy of confidence, then you'll feel like shit - and will fulfill that prophecy you foretold about yourself?

That is true. (Google the science.) That's also not logical.

You are going to become whoever you give yourself permission to become.

When you understand that sentence - not in a logical, Western way, but when you feel it in your soul - then everything will make sense.

[soup]

(06-13-2012 06:27 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Confidence is an emotional state. It's a feeling. Logic has little to do with it.

Did you know that if you simply sit up straight and walk with a good posture then you'll feel more confident?

That is true. (Google the science.) That's also not logical.

Did you know that if you move your lips into a smile position, then you'll start to feel happy?

That is true. (Google the science.) That's also not logical.

Did you know that if you tell yourself you're a loser who is unworthy of confidence, then you'll feel like shit - and will fulfill that prophecy you foretold about yourself?

That is true. (Google the science.) That's also not logical.

You are going to become whoever you give yourself permission to become.

When you understand that sentence - not in a logical, Western way, but when you feel it in your soul - then everything will make sense.

Sometimes when I'm feeling miserable, I want to be able to tell myself that I'm a loser because it's such a simple, easy answer. But, I know that feeling lame is not the entire story, and that there are a lot of times when I am supremely self-confident. So, when I feel like shit these days, the entirety of my experience disables my ability to just say "I totally suck."

[Shamrock]

Confidence must be earned...there are no short cuts. A lot of how to get there is already covered in the thread. Only thing I'll add is to suggest boosting your T-levels with anything and everything possible. Heavy lifting 3x+ a week, ACV, cold showers, cup of cruciferous per day, etc, etc. If you take care of these things you can expect more control the the other elements (aka eliminating avoidance, succeeding, etc).