[Rurik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-son3EJTrU

Indirect game allows both you and the girl to have indirect knowledge, wherein both of you understand the implications of what is being said, without directly knowing if the other person fully comprehends those implications for certain, allowing you to more comfortably mack on the girl and to navigate various types of relationships.

Though this is not too important for a girl in a foreign place you'll never see again.

[Tengen]

Haha, this is a great video, thanks for the link!

I remember seeing another video these guys made about the GFC, i think. Are these guys the new TED?

[FretDancer]

Wow amazing video. A must see for everyone .

[Architekt]

Your explanation suddenly makes so much more sense after actually watching the video. Puts a bit of meaning behind the concept of plausible deniability, etc.

[slubu]

The end of that video had a bit of an "ah" moment.

[Tuthmosis]

This video is interesting, but a distillation and simplification of what I'm starting to recognize is the supremely advanced social intelligence that a guy with "game" has.

Game = Social Intelligence

We're probably in the top 1 percent of the population in this realm. We know the fine arts of subtlety, negotiation, implication, navigation, etc. at a level that most will never attain.

[Samseau]

(06-11-2012 11:35 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

We're probably in the top 1 percent of the population in this realm. We know the fine arts of subtlety, negotiation, implication, navigation, etc. at a level that most will never attain.

At least we are in the top 1%... for males.


Compared to females, we probably all go down a few points. We're probably only top 15% if you include women. Females are far more conniving than males are.

[Kitsune]

No they aren't.

Women aren't that difficult, and they almost never plan any moves or anything ahead of time. Try playing chess with one.

Women only appear great at social interaction because they are living in the first era where they are allowed to do and say anything without fear of reproach, and are told they are magical beings from the cradle. Even so, all it takes is one neg and a grown woman can be thrown off-kilter for weeks afterwards.

[Rurik]

(06-11-2012 01:14 PM)Kitsune Wrote:  

No they aren't.

Women aren't that difficult, and they almost never plan any moves or anything ahead of time. Try playing chess with one.

Bad example.

Socio-emotional reasoning and interpersonal processing is quite different from logical reasoning, and uses different brain circuitry.

An autistic nerd who can't read facial expressions could be great at chess, whereas an "air headed blonde bimbo" will more likely know how to persuade, gossip, lie, and use soft power like a genius compared to him.

Women are more socially connected, and talkative, compared to men.

A woman needs this edge against men so as to pick a better provider mate, be able to cheat on a mate to get better seed from a male lover, etc. etc.

[Snowman]

(06-11-2012 01:14 PM)Kitsune Wrote:  

Women only appear great at social interaction because they are living in the first era where they are allowed to do and say anything without fear of reproach, and are told they are magical beings from the cradle. Even so, all it takes is one neg and a grown woman can be thrown off-kilter for weeks afterwards.

I disagree. Women are natural communicators, just a quick observation can proof that. Look at the majority of translators in the world or at talk shows, Oprah. It's an evolutionary quirk. Much like how men are designed to want to explore, have new adventures, exert dominance, ect. Women are designed to be more communial, to nest, and to nuture. Naturally communication isn't something most women have to think about, practice, or "strategize". That's why we do. Because communication is so primal with women, if a man can engage her in interesting conversation it stimulates her primal function mate selection or something. Conveying the message that he is a suitable mate for her, which is why a funny fat guy can pull an 8. It's why we have game in the first place.

If women weren't strong verbal communicators, then we wouldn't need to be strong verbal communicators to have sex with them. And therefore game wouldn't exist and the only guys that would be having sex with attractive women would be equally physically attractive men. But this is not so.

It's important to understand that women shape game. Game evolves from what works and doesn't work with women. If you study history then you can clearly see that with time, our approach with women changes alongside how women view themselves and what they think they want. Example: Middle Age Chilvary versus Modern Game. Chilvary is dead because it doesn't work anymore. Modern Game is alive because it does.

[JofSuperman]

Great video. I've been meaning to check out some of Pinker's books.

[WestIndianArchie]

This is a great video, but innuendo is not indirect.

The direct approach
"hey, you're cute"
"hey, let's fuck"

Lets the target know clearly and quickly that your interest is sexual.

An indirect approach

"Did you just see that?"
"I LOVE THIS SONG"

Lets the target know nothing, but it does or at least can, open them to a a neutral conversation. From the open of the conversation, you can show who you are, screen them, and then make them qualify themselves - basically build compliance before you add sex to the equation. Essentially through speech and without showing your sexual intent AT ALL, she's going to wonder about it, because everyone's thoughts eventually turn to sex. That's part of the reason why indirect is so complicated, because you can't show your hand.

Indeed, with a lot of girls, the mere act of speaking to them is interpreted as sexual interest. (fat girls in particular).

Once you've been pegged as someone that's trying to fuck her, the defenses go up and it makes the pick up harder, cause the immediate sexual assessment kicks in, and 99 times out of 100, you don't meet that 5 second test.

But those of us in the game know that those initial impressions mean nothing, and you can plow a bitch @ 3 am that wasn't interested in you @ 11:30 pm.

Often times, if you're doing indirect, you have to engage in "active disinterest". Which means disqualifying her from the running, or saying something that pushes you out, which lets her defenses down OR makes her wonder why you aren't hitting on her like all the other dudes.

By contrast, the video is talking about innuendo, plausible deniability, and what women know as flirting. Women love "flirting". They love being naughty without having any consequences. Such is their nature.

Her - "my mp3 collection is so disorganized"
Player - "I'd love to check your files sometime"

Unless she's dense, there's nothing ambiguous about his proposal for sex, but she can pretend to not catch his underlying meaning.

She can continue the innuendo

her - "I'm sure you would. What would you be expecting to find?"
^
This is an invitation to flirt.

Player - "By the looks of you, i'd expect a lot of Lady Gaga, but something tells me that you might have some Fleet Foxes or something interesting that most people wouldn't expect"

At this point in this hypothetical conversation about mp3's, they both understand that they aren't talking about mp3's....but in no way does she not realize she's being picked up. She's playing the game with you, possibly hinting that she'll take some cock down the throat if you don't say something stupid and continue to be funny and clever. Often times, these bitches are just using you for entertainment for the evening, but if you're good at it, you can end up fucking her.

Indirect, talking to a chick just for fun and conversation, one that doesn't betray your sexual interest, is a powerful tool in the player's arsenal, but it requires a fair amount of intelligence, observational abilities, and self awareness that being direct does not require.

That's why direct is so much more appealing to noobs and dumb asses in the game, even if they don't have the body, body language or cojones to do it right. At least the rejections are fast. Going direct all the time means your observations of who's DTF will go up tremendously. Then it becomes a #'s game because you never really learn shit about attracting women. Just hit the gym Bro!

indirect on the other hand means you might spend 2 hours in a good conversation with a bitch, build attraction, build rapport, and still catch a logistical fuck up that makes you lose the pussy @ the end of the tunnel. But being good @ indirect, on some Zen shit, where you talk to a broad, get into her head, figure her out, learn how to ask questions and how to answer - that's some powerful shit that goes beyond pick up.

A lot of problems in a young player's pick ups could be addressed if he could have a non-sexually charged conversation with a dime piece at length. His body language would relax. His pace of speaking would ease back. He could deal with the uncomfortable silences, because he expects there to be a trough every 7 minutes. He could play with a chick's mind and expectations.... So many dudes think you can be cool by leaning by the bar with a beer, when cool in the pick up world is about restraint while you're actually talking to a chick.

This is all just pick up 101, and it never ceases to depress me that so few of you have your handle on the basics. Granted most of you fucks still got approach anxiety problems, but that's neither here nor there.

WIA

[SkeletonJelly?]

Speaking more generally about indirect vs direct, and continuing Rurik's line of thought, uncertainty = tension = sexual tension

[soup]

You have to demonstrate social intelligence through your actions. Push a little, then pullback if you feel her about to pullback so you don't allow her to reject you in any way. Never let her build up an image of you out of "No"s. Everything should be a latter of "yes"s. You might have put in a lot of work to get her really far, but then one little rejection can take a lot of your power away. So, you have to always pre-empt the rejections.

As you push for greater investment, you have to be ahead of her at every turn. Meeting a girl for the first time and you are trying to get her back to your place?:

"You can come over for a bit, but I have to kick you out after one drink because I have work to do."

Making out with her, and you feel like she's about to form a nervous, tongue blocking smile?:

Immediately push her away and go back to your drink.

These are the kinds of actions that need to take place. This is how you demonstrate and sub-communicate social intelligence to build comfort.

[tjuan]

The end explains the safety of the washroom weasel.
Would you like to see my etchings?

[TheBulldozer]

Interesting.

The best quote I heard regarding the difference between males and females was, "While boys played ball, girls talked."

In a large sample size, girls are better at the whole social thing than men are.

[Zep]

Quote:

Granted most of you fucks.....

???????????????????????????????

Quote:

An indirect approach

"Did you just see that?"
"I LOVE THIS SONG"

also, "would you like to come up and see my etchings?"

On the Direct to Indirect continuum, the above leans strongly towards Indirect. Yes yes, one can be very indirectly direct, but now things are getting ridiculous. The point of the video, which was made very well, was that a person does not have to communicate directly. Thus giving someone the option of not being objected too...well you said it yourself.

Quote:

Once you've been pegged as someone that's trying to fuck her, the defenses go up and it makes the pick up harder, cause the immediate sexual assessment kicks in, and 99 times out of 100, you don't meet that 5 second test.

Agreed. That's HOW a 50 yr old I know of picked up a 20 yr old. There is no way he could have gone direct. Most 'teachers' in the community know this.

Quote:

That's why direct is so much more appealing to noobs and dumb asses in the game, even if they don't have the body, body language or cojones to do it right. At least the rejections are fast. Going direct all the time means your observations of who's DTF will go up tremendously. Then it becomes a #'s game because you never really learn shit about attracting women. Just hit the gym Bro!

So true. But then....show me a product that teaches indirect well?

There is none. At most I see people TALKING ABOUT it, not DEMONSTRATING it. In the products I've looked at, the author will usually give two paragraphs of examples, maximum. What is needed, especially for community types, who are socially awkward, introverted, and want to hit this level of sophistication, is a book that does case studies. Full conversations with analysis. Not even more female psychology and analysis a la Tyler Durden, Sinn, and every talking head in every "superconference".

This product doesn't exist in large part due to what you said here:

Quote:

indirect on the other hand means you might spend 2 hours in a good conversation with a bitch, build attraction, build rapport, and still catch a logistical fuck up that makes you lose the pussy @ the end of the tunnel. But being good @ indirect, on some Zen shit, where you talk to a broad, get into her head, figure her out, learn how to ask questions and how to answer - that's some powerful shit that goes beyond pick up.

Agreed. Except for the part where you said it goes beyond pick up. I think this is what pick up *should* be, but isn't, due to the poor quality of teaching and products available.

If you can do what you're implying you can....please, write an ebook of 'case studies' of good indirect pickup, with analysis of every line. After a while, a person will start to 'get it'. And pleeeeease don't write about female psychology, it's been done to death.

Do this well, and I swear, I'll buy your book.

I Have looked for such a book. This is what I've found, patronizing garbage like 'How to win friends and influence people" with nonsense like, "people like to talk about themselves"...Really!! WOW. Thanks man.
Actually, Mehow made a product that almost did it....called "Megan and Mehow" I think. It was sooo close. He talks to this very flirty girl, and on the fly breaks down what's happening in the conversation. I thought it was really informative. The one problem was that "Megan" was too good at being a flirt. She was always game, always had a come back. I wished he had picked a regular girl, where things fall flat, silences, and then pushed through those moments with quality. I'd buy that product in a heartbeat.

[HiFlo]

the greatest intellectual justification for game is not using any intellect at all. srs.

i think most of the brahs on this board have IQs of 120+. The thing is that the less intellect u show the more the girls like it. lol