[worldwidetraveler]

I could use some of you guys to bounce around some opinions... ideas.

A little background.

Lately, I have been in the US working on my business. Before that, I was living overseas. In fact, I have been back and forth between the US and living in other countries for the past 15 or so years.

I am reaching the big middle age bracket soon. Got rid of the wife and have no kids that I know of.

My company can be relocated anywhere in the world since it is tech based with no physical locations in the US.

So, as of right now, I have been wondering if I should relocate my company overseas. My company is beginning to really grow and should be hitting 7 figures next year. Most of that will be profit. If I continue with my plans it could be a lot bigger (I am not sure I want to go down that road yet haha).

The lifestyle in the US isn't too bad. There are problems but it is far cheaper here for many things and, with money, it becomes pretty good.

Basically, here is my pros and cons of going overseas.

Pros:

Very little taxes. I could pay myself a salary less than 100k a year and it would not be taxed besides FICA. If I set up residency in a state like Florida, Nevada or Texas, I wouldn't have to worry about state taxes.

My company could pay for most of my living expenses while being overseas.

The IRS wouldn't be able to audit my company. I would just have to follow laws for foreign bank accounts but I am sure there are ways around that. I plan on talking with an international tax attorney before putting any ideas into play.

State sales taxes are becoming a reality and something small business, who do business over the internet, will need to address. It is just more money spent on doing the governments job.

Same with the new Health Care.

Income taxes are going up. As a business person, I pay corporate taxes only to be hit with taxes on salary and any dividends. Dividend taxes are going up and will also have a obamacare tax on top. As the business owner, it all comes out of my pocket at the end of the day.

The money I can pump back into my business could make it extremely big. Like I said, I don't know if I want to go down that road because it will require a lot of work.

I do find dating overseas to be more enjoyable with less drama while I was overseas. American women are alright, but don't enjoy the bullshit that needs to be played. Most women at a particular age tend to be single mom's. I don't want to raise a kid that isn't mine.



Cons:

I think the lifestyle in the US is pretty good at a far cheaper price than most countries.

Visa's can be a pain in the ass. I absolutely hate having to deal with any government. I think Spain has a self employed visa if I want to base myself in Europe. I am a little leery with all the problems there.

Learning languages and the culture to fit in takes time. In many countries, you will never fit in just because you're a foreigner.

I do enjoy spending time with my family but I would need to stay out 330 days of the year for tax benefits.

I wouldn't be able to bring back company profits to the US. That means no investing in the US.

US currency will probably be devalued. All my sales are in US currency which will be volatile when dealing with conversions in other countries.


Those are just some pros and cons off the top of my head. Maybe you can add some more.

[bacon]

you might like mexico. great weather, big diverse 100 million and mexican food is delicious and with 100k you can live it up. due to its close relationship with US businesses you should not face much friction in runing a business. i too worry about currency devaluation as i earn most my income from us investments. the mexican economy is pretty linked to usa in ways most countries are not due close trade relations between both. many mexicans speak english or at least some and spanish is much easier to learn than say russian or chinese. there is a large expat community so that might be another benefit to you.

[worldwidetraveler]

Never really thought about Mexico. I will have to look more into it. I love the food. I won't be doing business inside the US but some sales will still be coming from US based consumers through the internet.

[Roosh]

Just curious, are you doing an S Corp or LLP?

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-10-2012 11:56 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Just curious, are you doing an S Corp or LLP?

I have an LLC right now but that will change quickly since growth has been a lot bigger than anticipated.

It is one of those things were you work for years and it just explodes. I will get killed on taxes this year.

Since growth seems to warrant it, I am thinking of going along the same lines as Apple, Microsoft, Facebook...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/...dwich.html

The main thing I need to figure out is if I want to stay in the states or not. If I go the route like other tech companies, that money won't be re-admissible to the US without paying taxes on it.

I am learning this shit as I go. I have been wrapped up on building the business. If I want to go overseas then I need to hire an international tax specialist to figure this out. If I stay I will convert to a C Corp.

[Roosh]

Yeah I'm using the foreign income exclusion deduction like you, but I'm still rolling sole proprietor. I did the math and there is no tax benefit to doing LLC. With S Corp there would be but I'd have to be making over 200k.

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-11-2012 12:21 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Yeah I'm using the foreign income exclusion deduction like you, but I'm still rolling sole proprietor. I did the math and there is no tax benefit to doing LLC. With S Corp there would be but I'd have to be making over 200k.

That is a sweet deduction. I wish I had started out as a sole proprietor. It wasn't worth the hassled of setting up an LLC at first.

Did you experience any major currency devaluation when you were overseas? I assume your sales was in US dollars.

[Roosh]

It was pretty steady, actually, and there were nice stretches where the dollar did well. What I do is set my living expenses under my budget, so any devaluation won't cause me to make any immediate adjustments. When you're spending only $2000 a month, even a huge 3% currency shift will only matter around $50.

[John Galt2]

(10-11-2012 12:21 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Yeah I'm using the foreign income exclusion deduction like you, but I'm still rolling sole proprietor. I did the math and there is no tax benefit to doing LLC. With S Corp there would be but I'd have to be making over 200k.

Roosh - I strongly suggest setting up an LLC to protect your assets. I don't know your finances, but if your business grows you will have (by definition) 1) more money and 2) more notoriety. So at the same time that you will have assets worth protecting is when you will be exposed more to liability (defamation lawsuits, etc). And from the tax side, it might be a push in terms of tax liability but Schedule C's get more scrutiny (audits!) than the k-1 you would get from your LLC. Something to chew on.

- JG

[worldwidetraveler]

(10-15-2012 11:38 PM)John Galt2 Wrote:  

(10-11-2012 12:21 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Yeah I'm using the foreign income exclusion deduction like you, but I'm still rolling sole proprietor. I did the math and there is no tax benefit to doing LLC. With S Corp there would be but I'd have to be making over 200k.

Roosh - I strongly suggest setting up an LLC to protect your assets. I don't know your finances, but if your business grows you will have (by definition) 1) more money and 2) more notoriety. So at the same time that you will have assets worth protecting is when you will be exposed more to liability (defamation lawsuits, etc). And from the tax side, it might be a push in terms of tax liability but Schedule C's get more scrutiny (audits!) than the k-1 you would get from your LLC. Something to chew on.

- JG

From a liability standpoint, that isn't my understanding on how corps/llc's work.

If you are a one man show and run the business, you will not be protected from liability since you are making the decisions. You can't hide behind a corp when doing something illegal.

For example, if Roosh is sued for defamation and loses, he won't be able to say his company is responsible not him.

Now, if Roosh wasn't running his company but a limited partner or shareholder, he would not face personal responsibility.

[John Galt2]

(10-15-2012 11:43 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-15-2012 11:38 PM)John Galt2 Wrote:  

(10-11-2012 12:21 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Yeah I'm using the foreign income exclusion deduction like you, but I'm still rolling sole proprietor. I did the math and there is no tax benefit to doing LLC. With S Corp there would be but I'd have to be making over 200k.

Roosh - I strongly suggest setting up an LLC to protect your assets. I don't know your finances, but if your business grows you will have (by definition) 1) more money and 2) more notoriety. So at the same time that you will have assets worth protecting is when you will be exposed more to liability (defamation lawsuits, etc). And from the tax side, it might be a push in terms of tax liability but Schedule C's get more scrutiny (audits!) than the k-1 you would get from your LLC. Something to chew on.

- JG

From a liability standpoint, that isn't my understanding on how corps/llc's work.

If you are a one man show and run the business, you will not be protected from liability since you are making the decisions. You can't hide behind a corp when doing something illegal.

For example, if Roosh is sued for defamation and loses, he won't be able to say his company is responsible not him.

Now, if Roosh wasn't running his company but a limited partner or shareholder, he would not face personal responsibility.

You want a multi-member LLC. So Roosh can have someone he trusts (his mother?) own 1% and he owns 99% and is the designated manager. That is what I do for mine (my brother is the "1 per center" in my case). Again, not a huge deal if we are talking small dollars. But Roosh has a "real business" and he should take steps to protect himself. Just my $0.02

[malc]

(10-16-2012 09:15 AM)John Galt2 Wrote:  

You want a multi-member LLC. So Roosh can have someone he trusts (his mother?) own 1% and he owns 99% and is the designated manager. That is what I do for mine (my brother is the "1 per center" in my case). Again, not a huge deal if we are talking small dollars. But Roosh has a "real business" and he should take steps to protect himself. Just my $0.02

This is stuff you want to talk to a lawyer/accountant/textbook about, not just guess. I vaguely remember stuff about exceptions with family members for example, it's easy to get bitten in the ass with this stuff.