[the chef]

how do you guys feel about kettlebells? seems like they're great for athletes who need to tone up and work on short explosive burts of power. not really great for the guys who really want to get bulky. supposedly it's used by a ton of MMA fighters.

what does your kettlebell routine look like? have you seen significant results? does it get you lean and toned? how intense of a workout is it? is it a formidable substitute to barbell and gym workouts?

[Diomedes]

Have been using kettlebells for years. Here is a fact-sheet:

- Kettlebells are outrageously overpriced and offer no value beyond what you could get by using and buying dumbells of a similar weight at a fraction of the cost.

- Dragondoor, the company that popularised KBs in the US, is a pyramid selling scheme. There model is; sell snake-oil books which promise 'secret Russian knowledge'; convince the punters to buy multiple balls of very expensive cast iron; inform the punters they cannot use them correctly until they've completed a number of certification courses, which runs into the thousands; then convince the users that what they really need is trainer courses so they can go on to teach others and sell Dragondoor KBs.

- It is much harder to gain size with KBs than barbells. You'd have to spend a lot more money and the rate of progression is slower.

- I speculate that the reason why you see a lot of KBs in MMA videos is because of sponsorship deals.

- With that said, the industry is fronted by a man called Pavel Tsatsouline who is an absolute genius. Anyone who picks up a book by him will be rewarded with a work that is worth ten times the cover price and will help anyone get much stronger, bigger and healthier. A huge amount of recent trends in lifting and conditioning stem back to him.

- Tsatsouline's basic swing conditioning plan is a godsend for any lifter. The 12 minute 30 sec on/30 sec off swing program will do wonders for your health, is much more fun than running and will not sap energy for progressing in lifting. Also, it'll make you fuck like a jackhammer.

My advice would be to get 'Power to the People', ingest it and use any of the advice that suits your needs. Though I would never touch a KB unless you can get them at an extreme discount.

[Hades]

I used kettlebells for a few weeks. I think that they are definitely worth it, I saw gains, but I just did not want to spend time increasing my VO2 max when my strength was lacking.
I substituted sprinting and it can be more useful since I had to run for my sport. I still cannot sprint well.

I found that the kettlebell snatch was, as my gym buddy said, "fucking impossible" and not worth the year it takes to figure out how to do it perfectly. I did high pulls instead, which are less dangerous. I did not stick to the program because I found deadlifts and convict conditioning to be more physically rewarding.

Save yourself money on kettlebells and don't buy one. Instead do what the guy above said and use Pavel's basic swing routine. Instead of a kettlebell, go to ross enamait's website and find his adjustable T-handle tutorial on his forums. That is basically a steel-pipe and dumbbell plate substitute. If you don't want to do that, you can swing and snatch with sandbags.

Then you can swing like a god, and with whatever weight you want.

[kbell]

The snatch doesn't take a year to learn. Its quite easy with a kettlebell. YOu just rotate your forarm when swing the kettlebell.

Steve Cotter explains it better here. I haven't had injureis when I do it this way.

I wouldn't touch dragondoor kettlebells because they are at least twice the cost. I like Lifeline and Sports Authority has a nice brand too. I like grips that are smooth personally since they don't tear up my hands as much as the rougher grips. You should be able to get a kettlebell at most sports stores now. Its pretty popular. I would just get one of 35, 40 and a 53 lb. Dual kbells are hard to balance I find.

[Hannibal]

(05-27-2012 07:29 PM)Diomedes Wrote:  

- Tsatsouline's basic swing conditioning plan is a godsend for any lifter. The 12 minute 30 sec on/30 sec off swing program will do wonders for your health, is much more fun than running and will not sap energy for progressing in lifting. Also, it'll make you fuck like a jackhammer.

I second this, I did the kb swing program for a while and my girlfriend at the time noticed it right away.

Seriously, though. Anything you can do with a kettlebell, you can do with another piece of equipment that isn't so limited. Your fitness equipment should work for you, not the other way around. Just google "kettlebell injuries" and look into the seminars and training that Dragon Door recommends you go to just to avoid injury.

If you want to do snatches, you can use a dumbbell. An added bonus is that you won't break your forearm with a 35 lb kettlebell.
For cardio, you could do interval sprints, burpees, or running.
For strength training, bodyweight calisthenics or barbells.
Swings can be accomplished with the T handle that Hades was talking about a couple posts back.

Or you could buy convict conditioning for your strength training and do tabata burpees for your cardio and say to hell with equipment.

The workouts generally require a lot of muscular endurance (at least the one from Enter the Kettlebell). If you're a beginner, you'll probably start with the 35 lb KB and you'll do like 4 weeks of nothing but turkish getups and a swing program with increasing intensity.

Turkish getups supposedly build strong shoulders and some pressing power, but if I wanted to build muscle with low weights I would have stuck to throwing soup cans at my cat.

The swings are for a cardio benefit (it really is nice to have another way to train cardio) and the turkish getups supposedly build strength. Enter the Kettlebell is great if you have no real strength to begin with, like any other program. I could come up with a better program for general fitness, but doing the workout suggested in the book is better than nothing and you will probably get fairly fit.

After the turkish getup and swings program, you'll move on to the "clean and press", the snatch, and pullups I believe. These workouts involve high reps of moderately low weight, so you'll get some hypertrophy. If you can press 35 lbs over your head, the clean and press is kind of a joke at this point. Pullups are real nice to do for reps, but you don't need a kettlebell for that. I haven't yet figured out what the snatch is supposed to be good for, other than a cardio benefit. I didn't get this far, but that's because I think that pressing 35lbs overhead is a lameass way to build shoulder muscle.

Sure, you can use heavier kettlebells for the TGU and the C&P, but I'd rather spend 300 dollars on a barbell set than three kettlebells.

[bface]

It's a lot of fun to train with them but yeah they are expensive.

I am also not too sure about the conditioning benefits of it. For pure strength a barbell is obviously better.

I worked up to over 200 swings with a 24kg KB (a former coach wanted me to do that). It all comes down to grip at high reps and your form suffers really bad towards the end, I wouldn't do it again. I also could not feel an improvement in my martial arts (standup or grappling) from it.

I think the proper way to do it is to keep the reps low and do it explosive. Get a really heavy KB and swing-throw it as far as possible.

I would say if you have access to them (or a lot of money) use them for specific things, otherwise stick to more traditional training methods (Barbells, running, sprinting, ...)

[Diomedes]

(05-27-2012 10:17 PM)kbell Wrote:  

The snatch doesn't take a year to learn. Its quite easy with a kettlebell. YOu just rotate your forarm when swing the kettlebell.

It depends on what you are doing with it. The snatch is one of the best exercises anyone can do, though the problem lies with a lot of KB programs advocating very high rep snatching. (Viking Warrior Conditioning for one.) For anyone who has not been using KBs for less than two years high rep snatching is asking for an injury. The knowledge of the pattern of the movement is not there and you will likely tear your hands to shreds in the process. Have a quick look on youtube for this at play. However, if you switch a dumbell for a KB anyone can jump right into these programs with no learning curve.

(05-28-2012 12:23 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  

I second this, I did the kb swing program for a while and my girlfriend at the time noticed it right away.

Glad to see someone else has noticed. Did you notice any increase in erection quality? Since starting to swing 50kg plus between my legs erections have become much firmer.

(05-28-2012 01:19 AM)bface Wrote:  

I am also not too sure about the conditioning benefits of it. For pure strength a barbell is obviously better.

I worked up to over 200 swings with a 24kg KB (a former coach wanted me to do that). It all comes down to grip at high reps and your form suffers really bad towards the end, I wouldn't do it again. I also could not feel an improvement in my martial arts (standup or grappling) from it.

I think the proper way to do it is to keep the reps low and do it explosive. Get a really heavy KB and swing-throw it as far as possible.

Good to hear that you've wised up to the coach. 200 swings at a time - besides being boring as fuck - is asking for an injury. It's like sprinting up a hill with 60lbs strapped to your back. A very bad idea for long term health.

[the chef]

Wow. Not the replies I was expecting. It's a good thing though, I was literally minutes away from buying a kettle bell.

I searched YouTube for kettle bell routines and saw that almost everyone (of course there were exceptions) soley using a kettle bell wasn't ripped or did not really have an athletic physique.

I guess I'll pass.

[Stitch]

/shrug. I'm doing a KB program at the moment because I've moved into temp lodgings for three months and don't have room for my weight stack. I've got enough room to swing a cat--or a KB.

And, honestly, I like it for the change. It's good fun doing something different for a while, the KB itself does feel different from a dumbbell, and I like the snatch/clean-and-press as just a different sort of snatch/clean-and-press from my oly bar.

Be-all-and-end-all of fitness? No. But it's another tool, and a fun one to mix things up with. I don't begrudge the money spent.

[Moma]

(05-28-2012 10:37 AM)the chef Wrote:  

Wow. Not the replies I was expecting. It's a good thing though, I was literally minutes away from buying a kettle bell.

I searched YouTube for kettle bell routines and saw that almost everyone (of course there were exceptions) soley using a kettle bell wasn't ripped or did not really have an athletic physique.

I guess I'll pass.

There is no ONE sort of equipment that gives you an athletic physique. You don't get ripped with one piece of equipment.

Why don't you go and ask some real experts from the gym? A former NFL player, some ballers etc? I take what people say in here with a pinch of salt and the pinch afforded from a pixie's finger (small pinch)

[Hannibal]

(05-28-2012 03:31 AM)Diomedes Wrote:  

(05-28-2012 12:23 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  

I second this, I did the kb swing program for a while and my girlfriend at the time noticed it right away.

Glad to see someone else has noticed. Did you notice any increase in erection quality? Since starting to swing 50kg plus between my legs erections have become much firmer.

Yeah, it did help. I smoked about a half a pack a day at the time so any cardio would have helped, but swings in particular are nice because it's basically a weighted pelvic thrust.

[the chef]

(05-28-2012 01:22 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(05-28-2012 10:37 AM)the chef Wrote:  

Wow. Not the replies I was expecting. It's a good thing though, I was literally minutes away from buying a kettle bell.

I searched YouTube for kettle bell routines and saw that almost everyone (of course there were exceptions) soley using a kettle bell wasn't ripped or did not really have an athletic physique.

I guess I'll pass.

There is no ONE sort of equipment that gives you an athletic physique. You don't get ripped with one piece of equipment.

Why don't you go and ask some real experts from the gym? A former NFL player, some ballers etc? I take what people say in here with a pinch of salt and the pinch afforded from a pixie's finger (small pinch)

^yeah i totally understand that. i wasn't planning to substitute HIIT training, bodyweight circuits, and even traditional weightlifting; i was just wondering if i should use kettlebells in my workout and if i should focus on kettlebell swings, cleans, and turkish get ups moreso than traditional barbell and dumbbell lifts.

[Moma]

the chef: I use kettlebells, I only have the one that weighs 53lbs, I haven't used it a lot, I did use it quite a bit in the beginning month and one of my lizards swore that my forearms got more striated.

I should have gotten a lighter one for more swings though, I can use this one but I think the cardio comes from the swinging, it shouldn't be too heavy.

It should be good to incorporate into your regular exercises, maybe focus on it more and then see if the strength carries over into the other exercises that you do.

They say it trains functional strength a lot because of the shape of it, your stablisers constantly come into play regarding that.

There is no harm trying it, I think you can get a 24kg one for about 60 bucks?

[tallglassofmilk]

kettle bells are not some russian secret to fitness. They are just big cannon balls that russian artillery men used to demonstrate strength whatever while they were waiting for shit to happen in the 1800s. Most likely they didn't have any weights to train with so the figured something out from what they had. Then they evolved from there.

[velkrum]

(05-27-2012 04:27 PM)the chef Wrote:  

how do you guys feel about kettle bells? have you seen significant results? is it a formidable substitute to barbell and gym workouts?

Kettle bells are cool.

There is a ton of creative ways to use them but I am not a fan of the conventional swinging and power movements.

Swinging them around is one of the worst ways to use kettle bells in my opinion.

[kbell]

Its a lot safer to do a kettlebell swing of say 24kg than to do the same with a dumbbell. Your less likely to hit your knees. Of course I wouldn't wear low hanging shorts either for them. I think they are a great tool, not really a replacement for a barbell and dumbbell, but something new. It might also be good to use kettlebells as opposed to barbell plates for weighted chins. Haven't tried it yet. Not sure how to tie the towel around my waist so that it hangs between my knees.

[bface]

velkrum, all the pics show exercises that can also be done with traditional weights who are much cheaper.

[Diomedes]

(05-28-2012 10:54 PM)kbell Wrote:  

Its a lot safer to do a kettlebell swing of say 24kg than to do the same with a dumbbell. Your less likely to hit your knees. Of course I wouldn't wear low hanging shorts either for them. I think they are a great tool, not really a replacement for a barbell and dumbbell, but something new. It might also be good to use kettlebells as opposed to barbell plates for weighted chins. Haven't tried it yet. Not sure how to tie the towel around my waist so that it hangs between my knees.

You'd need lifting belt to us a KB effectively for chins, though some hook it with a foot.

A dumbell swing is no different from a KB swing. You should be holding it while rotating your thumb towards you as it goes under. There is also no chance of it hitting a knee. If it does, you are not doing anything resembling a swing. This comes from someone who has his feet positioned at shoulder width and swings two big 32kg bells at a time.

By the way, anyone looking for form videos, make sure you're watching the Pavel videos on youtube. A lot of others - the Crossfit ones especially - get the movements very, very wrong.

[Chad Daring]

I consider kettle bells to be gimmicky weights for middle class white people. No I've never used them. Yes I know that makes most of my opinion invalid. I just have a hard time believing that some funny shapped weight is gonna produce as good, or better, results then traditional dumbbells and barbells. They seem to be marketed to people who want an easier way out because lifting heavy shit is hard.

[durangotang]

(05-29-2012 06:44 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

I consider kettle bells to be gimmicky weights for middle class white people. No I've never used them. Yes I know that makes most of my opinion invalid. I just have a hard time believing that some funny shapped weight is gonna produce as good, or better, results then traditional dumbbells and barbells. They seem to be marketed to people who want an easier way out because lifting heavy shit is hard.

Because middle class white people want the easy way out, as opposed to middle class people of color who don't. Stupid racist shit. Also, I don't know anyone upper or lower class who are nearly as into weightlifting as those from the middle class, unless of course by middle class white people you mean tough as nails soviet peasants, then you'd be onto something:


Amazon Link

[the chef]

[Stitch]

Quote:

I consider kettle bells to be gimmicky weights for middle class white people. No I've never used them. Yes I know that makes most of my opinion invalid.

Anything can be a fad. I see fat women with pink 5lb dumbbells doing curls, therefore dumbbells are gimmicky weights for fat white chicks. I see the same women in bodypump classes doing slow bent-over rows with lightweight aluminum bars and rubber-covered plates, therefore barbells are gimmicky weights for fat white chicks too.

C'mon. It's another tool, nothing more or less. Having done some of the same moves with a dumbbell vs a kettlebell, I prefer the KB for some moves. Does it replace a good oly bar and bumper plates? Hell no. Does it have its place? Yep.

[kosko]

*takes brolic iron bells used by Soviet army men and decorated athletes.. packs it up in a box and drops it at planet fitness for yuppies*

My gym hasn't changed in 20+ years. Dumbells and Barbells never go out of style for a reason. I always see kettle bells in my summer gym in the "floozy" room I call it. Which is the room insecure women are with yuppie men with balance balls and ViPrs work out in.

I like what Velkrum posted tho. That would seem like the best and most logical way to use them. Incorporating them into regular lifts or to enhance other lifts. Swinging around like a money seems like too much as would making them a focal point of your routines.

90% of the stuff the industry is putting out is garbage. 70% of people find barbells and dumbells to hard and gyms are trying to phase them out for liability reasons. Evreybody whom is lifting is going to snap or fuck up something at least once.. mild or sever its just comes with the lifestyle. With all the advancements in technology they keep on pushing out trash while tried and true standards still kill them all.

Plus the Soviets we're all on mega roids up in the Olympics in those days. They perfected growth science and roids over there. I think it took the IOC 20 years to catch up to what they we're doing.

[Chad Daring]

(05-29-2012 10:25 PM)Stitch Wrote:  

Quote:

I consider kettle bells to be gimmicky weights for middle class white people. No I've never used them. Yes I know that makes most of my opinion invalid.

Anything can be a fad. I see fat women with pink 5lb dumbbells doing curls, therefore dumbbells are gimmicky weights for fat white chicks. I see the same women in bodypump classes doing slow bent-over rows with lightweight aluminum bars and rubber-covered plates, therefore barbells are gimmicky weights for fat white chicks too.

C'mon. It's another tool, nothing more or less. Having done some of the same moves with a dumbbell vs a kettlebell, I prefer the KB for some moves. Does it replace a good oly bar and bumper plates? Hell no. Does it have its place? Yep.

If kettlebells in general were just pitched as "just another tool" I'd have no qualms at all but whenever people talk kettlbells its usually as some kind of miracle replacement equipment that'll be "the last thing ever need to buy" Granted this isn't the fault of the kettlebell itself.

Quote:

Because middle class white people want the easy way out, as opposed to middle class people of color who don't. Stupid racist shit.

You need to take a chill pill. "SWPL" is tossed around these boards all the time and no one goes screaming THATS RACIST because its understood what the actually implication of that statement is.

[durangotang]

(05-30-2012 04:59 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

(05-29-2012 10:25 PM)Stitch Wrote:  

Quote:

I consider kettle bells to be gimmicky weights for middle class white people. No I've never used them. Yes I know that makes most of my opinion invalid.

Anything can be a fad. I see fat women with pink 5lb dumbbells doing curls, therefore dumbbells are gimmicky weights for fat white chicks. I see the same women in bodypump classes doing slow bent-over rows with lightweight aluminum bars and rubber-covered plates, therefore barbells are gimmicky weights for fat white chicks too.

C'mon. It's another tool, nothing more or less. Having done some of the same moves with a dumbbell vs a kettlebell, I prefer the KB for some moves. Does it replace a good oly bar and bumper plates? Hell no. Does it have its place? Yep.

If kettlebells in general were just pitched as "just another tool" I'd have no qualms at all but whenever people talk kettlbells its usually as some kind of miracle replacement equipment that'll be "the last thing ever need to buy" Granted this isn't the fault of the kettlebell itself.

Quote:

Because middle class white people want the easy way out, as opposed to middle class people of color who don't. Stupid racist shit.

You need to take a chill pill. "SWPL" is tossed around these boards all the time and no one goes screaming THATS RACIST because its understood what the actually implication of that statement is.

I call it as I see it and that wasn't how I read it, but if you say you meant SWPL, then fair enough no need for drama.